Billionaires and Occupy Wall St.

[mendicus]

I am seriously starting to question the people I fly. Revolutions bring change and I think some of the clients I have show little respect to the average person. I only fly a C550 but I do worry that if I move to a Challenger that these clients will be unbearable. They are seemingly occupied with SELF. We all know the media portraits of jolly generous Buffet but surely we need better working conditions and be gone with these ridiculous Freelance contracts that leave you wondering if you are ever going to afford to buy a house,pay for your children or even keep current. I have had my licence for 6 years I previously worked in the HK a booming capitalist colony, that cash cow paid for my training. Since then I have flown relief food in South Sudan a heart wrenching job and Corporate Aviation in Europe. In the good old days the billionaires expected to pay their workers why now do they try and squeeze every dime. Attitudes need to change or long live the revolution. You cannot afford a plane if you can't afford to crew it.

[ksjc]

C550, Challenger or GLEX... there are the unbearable and the good accounts. Just like the "real" world. It's your job to sort through it all and choose wisely.

Of course there's an element of luck involved but most of our success comes from our own due diligence.

Best of luck to you.

[Marcus550]

May I intrude for a moment? I'm certainly not a billionaire, nor do I have any particular desire to become one. My financial situation is such that ownership and operation of a G550 is not a significant expense in the general scheme of things.

I employ three pilots full time, with salaries about 18% higher than the NBAA maximum reported salaries for the G550. They have excellent benefits, and I fervently hope that I am treating them well. I both like and admire them. They are decent, honorable men, with extraordinary skills as aviators.

Our aircraft is used about 500 horus per year for family travel (our family is spread all over the place).

I've said most of this before. There are family owners out there who treat their employees like dirt. There are others who believe, as I do, that pilots are highly skilled professionals who should be treated with respect, dignity and even kindness.

I hope that you find employment with some of the good guys, not the louts.

Before we hired our third pilot, we used contractors when one of our pilots needed a day off/got sick/took vacation. I do not know what the proper pay scale for a contractor on the G550 is; we paid (I think) around $1400/day plus expenses.

Two of the four that we used are not welcome in our aircraft EVER again. One showed up for a return flight from Munich 4 hours late, laughing because he "overslept in a brothel". The other fell asleep in the lavatory and couldn't be awakened for about 3 hours.

In the end we hired a third pilot, not from among the contractors we'd used, but from among a small group of pilots known and respected by our Captain.

I guess what I am driving at is that there are bad apples on both sides of the fence. Owners who give us all a bad name, and pilots who have no business associating with civilized people.

Good luck with your career. I truly hope things get better.

[ksjc]

Marcus550 is right. There are some great owners to work for out there. I've been working for one for the past 8 years on a GLEX. ..and before that...and before that. My situation sounds much like Marcus550's guys.

Perhaps not the norm but these employers exist despite what you hear and I must say in my 20+ year long career I have not yet had the displeasure of working for an unreasonable one (knock wood).

Lucky? Perhaps. I believe good spirit and good attitude brings good luck. That said, I'm optimistic there are many more positions like this out there....for the right guy.

The trick is to be that guy. If you are, the right job will find YOU.

[Marcus550]

The most difficult, uncomfortable part of purchasing the Gulfstream was the process of selecting our pilots. Without going into gory detail, I can tell you that a number of otherwise well qualified pilots did NOT get the jobs because of abominable interviewing skills. So to that end, I'll offer a bit of assistance.

First, and foremost LISTENto the interviewer. If you persist in answering questions he's not asking he won't be impressed. One example comes readily to mind:

Q. Mr. Smith, this is a very informal interview, I would like to get to know you as a person. So please relax, may I get you a cup of coffee?

Mr. Smith, who is sitting rigidly in the front one third of the chair, feet flat upon the floor, and hands upon his knees, replies:

A. I received my type rating in Savannah at Flight Safety two years ago, sir.

Granted this may be an odd approach to an interview. Our Captain had selected a couple of people for me to talk to. I totally defer to his judgment as to skills, experience and airmanship. I do want to know the people we're going to hire, as I want to hire people who will be comfortable with our family and with whom our family will be comfortable. I know that the interview process can be stressful for a pilot, and private owners often do the two tiered interview process (or three tiered) where ultimately the aircraft owner meets a few candidates acceptable to his pilot(s) and helps to decide among them.

If, in the interview process, an interviewer tells you that they'd like to get to know you as a person, they probably aren't either propositioning you, or interested in your aviation background as that will already have been assessed.

Second, suppose that your interviewer asks you something, that under U.S. law he isn't supposed to. You have several ways to respond, and you should consider why you're being asked this, and what the likely effect on your quest for employment might be.

Legally, I cannot ask you questions about your family, but I most certainly will, prefacing them with an explanation that I cannot properly ask them, and that you're free to decline to answer them. Why would I want to ask you about your family? My grandchildren (who are quite young) are frequent passengers on my aircraft. I would much rather hire a superb aviation who is married, has children, and likes kids, than a superb aviator who cannot stand children. So you're free to decline to answer and I won't press it, but at the end of the day, I have to ask myself...do I know enough about this guy's character to want to hire him.

Thirdly, do NOT bring up politics during the course of an interview. I've seen this happen startlingly often. And don't assume because the aircraft owner is wealthy, that he is therefore conservative, Republican or a tea partier. Oddly enough, most of my neighbors (who are reasonably well off) are actually liberal democrats. So... you just don't know. You may espouse your admiration for Rick Perry and end the interview right there. Or for Barack Obama and end the interview right there.

Fourth, do NOT bring up the subject of religion during an interview. If the interviewer asks, you should tell him that you don't choose to answer. But if you bring it up you become fair game. No matter how convinced you are of the rectitude, correctness and glory of your faith, the interviewer may be of a different persuasion (or he may think that your brand of religion is good for a belly laugh). You simply cannot know.

I had an individual who had been flying a G450 for a televangelist for a couple of years tell me that he'd be a better choice for the job than the other applicants because "God was his copilot". Since we were, at the time, looking for a copilot that seemed a bit odd. My copilot doesn't have a copilot of his own, and I like it that way.

I will also guarantee you that owners of family jets, if you happen to get interviewed, will ask you some truly odd questions. Talking with friends (an LR60 owner and a C680 owner) I have complied a list of things they've asked potential employees. When I have a bit more time, I'll share these with you.

[PLovett]

Marcus550, thank you for sharing that with us; the information is gold. :ok:

[KAG]

Marcus 550:

3 points: what you say about bad pilots is a bit weird, you give advices that are not going to help much, and you are off topic.


Let's see those 3 points:



BAD PILOTS
Two of the four that we used are not welcome in our aircraft EVER again. One showed up for a return flight from Munich 4 hours late, laughing because he "overslept in a brothel". The other fell asleep in the lavatory and couldn't be awakened for about 3 hours.I am not sure that somebody who spent the night in a brothel will advertize it to you or anybody else at work, especially if he is 4 hours late. Being 4 hours late, in addition, doesn't add up, it's just impossible, unless the pilot lives 4 hours from the airport when you call him to know where he is.
The other one slept in the lavatory, and couldn't be awaken for 3 hours? It's called coma. I have no idea what you are talking about on that one. And which lavoratory? The airplane's one? It's just no realistic. If I uncounter this problem, I would call an ambulance instead of advertizing in on pprune.
It was the first point.






Now let's have a look at your advices:
POLITICS
Thirdly, do NOT bring up politics during the course of an interview. I've seen this happen startlingly often. And don't assume because the aircraft owner is wealthy, that he is therefore conservative, Republican or a tea partier. Oddly enough, most of my neighbors (who are reasonably well off) are actually liberal democrats. So... you just don't know. You may espouse your admiration for Rick Perry and end the interview right there. Or for Barack Obama and end the interview right there.
RELIGION
Fourth, do NOT bring up the subject of religion during an interview. If the interviewer asks, you should tell him that you don't choose to answer. But if you bring it up you become fair game. No matter how convinced you are of the rectitude, correctness and glory of your faith, the interviewer may be of a different persuasion (or he may think that your brand of religion is good for a belly laugh). You simply cannot know.
Do you honestly beleive that there is one pilot among the ones who just read you that was about to speak about islam, god and tea party to his next coming interview and got saved by your advice? It takes much more than that to find a job, beleive me.
It looks that you are a kind of perfect employer reading your post, and you beleive many pilot are dumb.
It was the 2 point.






Finaly the last point, you are OFF TOPIC, it's not about the interview skills and having children is a must to work for you, it's about this subject, read it again, understand it, and if you have something to say about it, it would be interesting coming from an owner viewpoint:
I am seriously starting to question the people I fly. Revolutions bring change and I think some of the clients I have show little respect to the average person. I only fly a C550 but I do worry that if I move to a Challenger that these clients will be unbearable. They are seemingly occupied with SELF. We all know the media portraits of jolly generous Buffet but surely we need better working conditions and be gone with these ridiculous Freelance contracts that leave you wondering if you are ever going to afford to buy a house,pay for your children or even keep current. I have had my licence for 6 years I previously worked in the HK a booming capitalist colony, that cash cow paid for my training. Since then I have flown relief food in South Sudan a heart wrenching job and Corporate Aviation in Europe. In the good old days the billionaires expected to pay their workers why now do they try and squeeze every dime. Attitudes need to change or long live the revolution. You cannot afford a plane if you can't afford to crew it.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Marcus makes valid points, and guys, assuming he is legit, he is the employer, and regardless of the PC remit of employers limited question range, I totally agree with him.

In the current climate it is refreshing to see the other side of the fence, and also the inside story.

Our job is not to fly the aircraft, a monkey can do that (G550 or Airbus), but to manage the resources, look after the owner and FAMILY.... ensure the safety of the passengers, as well as act many times as the PR person for the owner.

We are more involved in the lives of our passengers, than almost anyone else in thier business.

I am proud to be a freelance / contractor. I meet so many varied crews and owners, some good some bad....but I must adapt to their ways and needs not enforce mine.

Marcus, please do not take the remarks too seriously.

glf

[KAG]

Our job is not to fly the aircraft, a monkey can do that
Give your job to a monkey then. For the relationship part a nice flight attendant loving kids will do. One banana for the monkey, rather low salary for the flight attendant compared to the pilot's, perfect.




In the current climate it is refreshing to see the other side of the fence, and also the inside story.Sure, any side is interesting to listen, but it has to be on topic, not interview skills, but pilot salaries and rich passenger attitude.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

KAG, you are missing the point, pilot handling skills, and problem recognition two traditional SKILL associated with being a PILOT, are reduced by automation, to a degree that even Airbus are concerned.

Our duties now are 95% monitoring automation, call it a dog or a monkey, so be it.

In regard to the other side of the story, for a good conversation 50% of which is listening......

I beleive that it is the interview technique not skill that is important...The OWNER is basically hiring a close family friend, who has certain specialist skills.
If you dont like his interviews then dont work for him.

If you smoke, and arrive at an interview with a smell of smoke, I would suggest you will not be hired.....and as to alcohol, then forget it.... I also dislike strong breath mints and mouthwash..
(designed to cover up what.????)

glf

[cjboy]

If i had a Gulfstream, which I don't, I can honestly say that I would never hire KAG.

[KAG]

Gulfstream aviator: KAG, you are missing the point, pilot handling skills, and problem recognition two traditional SKILL associated with being a PILOT, are reduced by automation, to a degree that even Airbus are concerned.

Our duties now are 95% monitoring automation, call it a dog or a monkey, so be it.

In regard to the other side of the story, for a good conversation 50% of which is listening......

I beleive that it is the interview technique not skill that is important...The OWNER is basically hiring a close family friend, who has certain specialist skills.
If you dont like his interviews then dont work for him.

If you smoke, and arrive at an interview with a smell of smoke, I would suggest you will not be hired.....and as to alcohol, then forget it.... I also dislike strong breath mints and mouthwash..
(designed to cover up what.????)I agree.



Cj:If i had a Gulfstream, which I don't, I can honestly say that I would never hire KAG. Which is perfect because I have no intention nor willing to work for you.

More seriously, I fly B737NG, not Gulfstream anyway. I did flew a business jet in the past, but I am happy with my job right now, thanks for your concern.







I came here because the first poster had something interesting to say related with the news: occupy Wall Street, and I found his topic interesting.
It could even get more interesting if we could talk about it, especially this part: In the good old days the billionaires expected to pay their workers why now do they try and squeeze every dime.
We all know the media portraits of jolly generous Buffet but surely we need better working conditions and be gone with these ridiculous Freelance contracts that leave you wondering if you are ever going to afford to buy a house,pay for your children or even keep current.

[20milesout]

@KAG:
Can´t see anything weird in Marcus´ words.
I am pretty sure that he knows exactly, what he is talking about :ok:

[KAG]

Of course you are pretty sure.
How could it be otherwise.

Anyway, where this occupy wall street will end up?

[Dawdler]

Remarks at interviews can easily be misunderstood. A few years ago, A colleague and I were interviewing candidates for an office job. It was a hot day, there was no air conditioning. One candidate looked uncomfortably hot so I suggested that it would be in order to remove her jacket if she so wished. This was later reported back in a letter to the MD., that I had asked her to take her top off!

I am not sure if she was seriously offended by my remark or it was a mischevious attempt to cause trouble because she did not get the job. Luckily my colleague who was present came to my defence, although quite how I would have coped with the accusation had I been conducting the interview alone, I am not quite sure.

[galaxy flyer]

KAG

Occupy Wall Street will end like the Paris Commune--a left-wing, idiotic dead end. They are offering nothing constructive, have no ideas on how to actually create jobs, careers or nes products that might create new jobs. It is a temper tantrum of the terminally whacked out.

Even the left wing democrats are nervous that it will be an anchor on the next election, US independent voters are running away FOM OWS. The Obamabots have managed to alienate their left wing base AND their Wall Street donor base.

A big steaming cup of Not Good.

GF

[INNflight]

It's funny how personality, dedication and concern for the well-being of ones PAX is underestimated by so many pilots these days.

A good owner knows you can fly - you wouldn't have made it to the interview otherwise. You're not there to talk about your hours, type ratings and flying skills.

You're there to give your future employer a chance of knowing whether he will be comfortable having his children, parents and / or friends stuck in a metal tube for 12hrs with you up front.

It's all about personality. It can get you jobs you're not even qualified for. If you don't have the soft skills, you'll be on a bumpier road. Fact!

[d&b]

KAG.
WTF? Don't ever come to me for employment!

[His dudeness]

You're there to give your future employer a chance of knowing whether he will be comfortable having his children, parents and / or friends stuck in a metal tube for 12hrs with you up front.

There is an astonishing amount of employers & passengers that apparently don´t care about exactly that...

Lets face it, Marcusses approach is - IMO - good but relatively rare, at least over here in Europe. There are real good employers, of course, but if we look at the big picture these days there is a majority that just want to save, no matter how much it will cost them in the end.

I was with a good guy for 14 years and I have had 2 employers that I wouldn't wish to work for ever again and for the last 4 years I´m working for a good company that I hope will keep me until retirement.

So for me the balance is sort of even right now. I hope it stays that way....

The OWNER is basically hiring a close family friend, who has certain specialist skills.

Basically there is or should be a contract between the employer and me.

Friendship? Hmmm, I don´t think so. I also don´t think it would be a thing to desire. I will be friendly and polite, of course, I will do my job to the best of my abilities, I don´t have any trouble with Kiddies (despite not having 'any that I know of') and would never mind to go the extra mile, but in the end I will stay an employee and nothing else. I seriously doubt that the other party would see that differently. Especially when there are disagreements... that develop pretty quick when it comes to money issues.

[KAG]

d&bKAG.
WTF? Don't ever come to me for employment!
Why would I come to you for employment?
We are not moons turning around you planet here, don't think everybody needs you, and anyway that's not even about hiring this thread.




GF Occupy Wall Street will end like the Paris Commune--a left-wing, idiotic dead end. They are offering nothing constructive, have no ideas on how to actually create jobs, careers or nes products that might create new jobs. It is a temper tantrum of the terminally whacked out. I undersstand that what they want is mainly justice because of the increasing gap between extremely rich and normal workers.


His dudeness Friendship? Hmmm, I don´t think so. I also don´t think it would be a thing to desire. I will be friendly and polite, of course, I will do my job to the best of my abilities, I don´t have any trouble with Kiddies (despite not having 'any that I know of') and would never mind to go the extra mile, but in the end I will stay an employee and nothing else. I seriously doubt that the other party would see that differently. Especially when there are disagreements... that develop pretty quick when it comes to money issues. Good point. The fact that extremely rich people hire some pilot shouldn't turn them into a kind of domestic, part of the family when it comes to help this family, but domestic for everything else.

[rh200]

I undersstand that what they want is mainly justice because of the increasing gap between extremely rich and normal workers.

Who determines what is Justice? is there some divine law that determines how much money you can make?

[PLovett]

In Australia there is a book being released soon (or has just been) by a former Prime Minister, Paul Keating. Now Keating is one of those characters that polarises opinions in that you either like or hate but I do believe that he had some very unusual insights into politics around the world.

On the present economic situation he believes that the root of the US problems stems from the period from 1990 to 2008 when there was a great burst of productivity in the US but that none of it went to wages. This in turn forced people to turn to easy credit as they were unable to sustain themselves from salary and wages. That fed the feeding frenzy that ended with the GFC. He argues that successive administrations from Reagan to Bush (W) abandoned the middle-ground and destroyed the people's belief in prosperity.

Perhaps part of the OWS movement is a revolt against being left off the gravy train or a protest of "don't ignore us or we will have you on the tumbrels heading for the guillotine".

[His dudeness]

Who determines what is Justice? is there some divine law that determines how much money you can make

Good question. As someone mentioned the guillotine, maybe Marie Antoinettes fate answers the question?
I think her answer to: 'people don´t have bread to eat' was 'why don´t they eat cake then!' could also be from some of the Maddoffs etc of today.

Don´t get me wrong, I have nothing against rich people per se, but when it comes to millions of workers unable to make a living from full time jobs etc. just because of the maximising of profit, then I think we need to change something. I don´t need a Ferrari to be happy and compared to most people I´m very well off. But if I look around me at ordinary workers in honest jobs getting poor whilst working, then I start to get nagging doubts about our system. The middle class is getting extinct almost everywhere, whilst the poor class gets bigger and bigger and real rich people get richer and richer.

Socialist, me? No, not really...

[KAG]

The middle class is getting extinct almost everywhere, whilst the poor class gets bigger and bigger and real rich people get richer and richer.


True. That's what the numbers say.
Attacking the middle class, this is attacking the whole system. Exactly what's happening today.
We need to evolve, but in the good direction. Because the slave workers in China and their rich masters have given ideas to the western world those last past 10 years apparently...

[ec155mech]

Politicians care about one thing and one thing only. themselves. anyone who thinks different are kidding themselves.

I personally think it's all about being an adult and being responsible with what you do in life.

I know loads of people that for some reason refuse to take responsibility for their own life and for their situation. and blame the government or others for their misfortune. some have educations some dont.

but common for them all is that if they stopped blaming everyone else and started to look at what can I do to improve my situation so I might get to live some of my dreams, they could.

but instead they are living on a system that gives them just enough to have a roof over their heads and feed them. all they do is complain about they dont get enough money from government. and I am thinking get a job. I truly believe that there is a job out there for everyone. it might not be in the country you live in now. but then you move. the world is so small these days that moving across continents isnt an impossible feat. I know I've done it twice.

some are born with money some aren't but I was brought up under the philosophy that if you want something. you bust your ass to get it.
you overcome, improvise and adapt.

people might read this and think oh he's loaded so what does he care. fact is I am better of than most of my friends and family but I worked my *** off to get where I am. and I am not rich or anything.

point is. stop expecting everyone else to pity you and dont expect someone to give you what you want. get actively involved in your own life.

( hope I dont come across as some idiot that thinks he has all the answers because I know I dont. I just refuse to sit back. life is never simple it takes great effort and sacrifice. )

[KAG]

ec155mech: some thruth in your post, even if courage for you means something different for somebody born in Somalia.
This is too easy to take its own life as a model for the whole world.

Anyway, not sure this is the point anyway.

Point being that the middle class is paying for everything and everybody: from the bank who did a mistake to the jobless. And how do we thanks this middle class? decreasing its salary to increase the investors revenue.
Everywhere in the world the richer pay less and less taxes. Everybody can see their lobbies are taking control of the governments. Meanwhile everywhere in the world the very poor need more help.
The middle class produce, pay taxes, buy, and the richer should have the benefit of everything. Beleiving a single man is worth millions or billions is bull****. It is breaking our system. The money has to come from somewhere, let's get real, the richer's money comes from the unbalance of our system.
Our system where it's muuuuuch more interesting to bet and speculate against countries, companies, human being than work honestly.
Our system where TV and advertizement ask everything from the middle class, even make then beleive they need some unecessary product, just to make few people richer.

The best idea we found: destroying the middle class to make everybody happy. NONSENSE.

[kanetoads]

Marcus is full of ****...guys that own G4s don't post here.

It's been my experience that most millionaires are pretty decent people...do they drive a hard bargain..sure...do they negotiate...sure...do they care about people? Many do..especially their employees who help make them money.

I can assure you that the reason some of these guys seemingly treat others badly is not out of some sense of royalty or privilige, but of a realization that they are smarter then most people, and that said...most people are idiots...a realization that I am quickly learning...idiots get in the way, idiots make life harder, idiots keep us from moving forward.

If your the pilot of some guy's plane and being treated badly, chances are, that guy thinks your an idiot.

[mutt]

Marcus is full of ****...guys that own G4s don't post here.
Welcome back SSG, please pay attention before you post, Marcus said that they operated a G550, not a G4... please get your facts right.

Mutt

[Brian Abraham]

Marcus, please take no notice what so ever of the out burst by kanetoads. The post he made is typical of what to expect from him. He eventually gets banned and pops up under a new alias. BTW, he knows zilch about aviation.

[Marcus550]

I wasn't particularly concerned, but thanks for your kind words. Perhaps I'm a bit different than other "millionaires" in that a bit more than 20 years ago, I was broke. And unemployed. My wife and I borrowed $5000 from relatives, started a business, worked 12 to 16 hour days for years to build the business. When we sold it in 2007 it had roughly 4000 employees, almost all of whom were salaried, not hourly. We paid above average wages, and provided excellent benefits. Our turnover was less than 1% per year. I did nothing to destroy the middle class but do agree that that is exactly what is happening out there in the real world.

Though my net worth is in the mid 9 figure range, I am NOT a "job creator". At most, our family employs about 12 people and that number is very unlikely to ever increase. We make no particular effort to increase our income, which comes entirely from dividends, interest and capital gains. We pay tax on that income and if somebody wants to tax us more than we're currently being taxed that's just dandy with me. Why? Because this country provides wonderful opportunities without which our success wouldn't have been possible. Payback time as far as I'm concerned.

Am I crazy enough to provide what my security guy calls "personally identifying information" on a public forum? No. Would I post the tail number of our aircraft here? No. My original visit here was born of curiosity about how others run their flight departments. Our left seater visits here as well, but I don't think I've ever seen him post anything. In any case, I do appreciate the information that has been provided to me.

[KAG]

Let's imagine a world where everybody were paysans. Would it work? It could.

Now let's imagine a world where everybody were millionaires/billionaires.
Would it work? Impossible. We would have to take the money from workers, the ones with low salaries, but in this case they wouldn't exist.

Being millionaire/billionaire comes from unbalance, not:
-working 12/16 hours a day (a slave in China can do that, but not only them...) or
-being smart (many Nobel prize have a normal salary).

[Marcus550]

KAG, my initial reaction to your post was that it provided an opportunity to educate, and my second reaction was: why bother?

If you believe that some nebulous, ill-defined "imbalance" is what made me rich, do feel free to continue believing that. If I were a logical fellow I'd have a hard time rationalizing where that imbalance came from, as we started from a point of being utterly broke, and ended reasonably well off.

If you would like to see your "imbalance" eliminated, it would be simple to do. Just determine the "productivity-per-employee" of the enterprise (a dollar figure) and then have your enterprise pay amount to each employee.

This would, of course mean that secretaries, janitors and data entry technicians would make exactly the same salary as the CFO, the engineers, technicians and IT geeks. But there wouldn't be any imbalance, at least as you spoke of it.

Additionally, if you want to eliminate imbalance, then you need to take the company's expenses, divide them by the number of employees, and deduct that figure from the payout calculated above. Not such a pretty picture.

The imbalance you spoke of (and which, admittedly, ended up making me wealthy) works like this: to stay in business, an enterprise MUST pay its employees less than the value of what they produce, because there are all manner of costs which must be covered. In most businesses in the modern era the differential is about 50% (or so I should believe from reading an annoying magazine called The Economist).

You want balance? You get to pay for it. And you get to take the same financial risks as your former "corporate masters". No risk, no reward. No pain, no gain.

The world isn't a perfect system, and I damn sure wasn't a perfect employer but I think we did better than most.

Have a nice day. I'm going flying (as a passenger).

[KAG]

At least you on topic now ;)

I speak about the whole system. It's always harder if we speak about one particular case like yours, as my staments would make your career path something not valid. I don't want to make personel statments at that point to avoid that, because it would look more like a personal attack than a discussion on why richers are richers and the middle class gets poorer.


Have a nice flight and behave nicely with your employees ;)