Euro Hawk rolled out

[mmitch]

The Eruo Hawk UAV was rolled out in Germany this week.
It is seen as a replacement for their retired Atlantics.
Germany's Euro Hawk Formally Unveiled After Systems Fit Completion: key.Aero, Military Aviation (http://www.key.aero/view_news.asp?ID=4222&thisSection=military)
mmitch.

[Royalistflyer]

Buy the frame, fit our own stuff in it - then at least we'd have something to tell us who's using the seas around this island.

[Rengineer]

Royalist,

that's essentially what Cassidian did to the original Global Hawk from Northrop. Took a few years to get right though.

[ORAC]

ITAR issues?

Germany axes Euro Hawk drone program (http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130514/DEFREG01/305140015/Germany-axes-Euro-Hawk-drone-program)

BERLIN — Germany has canceled a planned “Euro Hawk” drone program over fears that European authorities will not certify them, a defense ministry source said Tuesday after reported European safety concerns. Germany had “no hope” of seeing the unmanned aircraft, part of a program that would have cost more than €1 billion (US $1.3 billion), approved for use, said the source, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The European Aviation Safety Agency has said it would certify the drones only to fly over unpopulated areas because of a lack of an anti-collision system to protect airliners, according to German press reports. “The equipment is not ready for approval without immense expenditure,” the source added.

Germany has already spent €508 million on a Euro Hawk prototype and was due to fork out a further €500 million on four more models. The Euro Hawk is a version of the American Global Hawk produced by Northrop Grumman and remodeled by the European defense and aerospace company EADS. Berlin has also already spent €40 million on modernizing the northern Jagel air base where the reconnaissance drones would have been based.

Northrop Grumman also did not want to provide technical documents necessary for the certification process, German press reports said.

In 2011, one year later than planned, the prototype Euro Hawk arrived at the Manching base near Munich in southern Germany.

Germany is in talks with Israel on buying Heron TP drones but German Defense Minister Thomas de Maiziere has indicated that any purchase would not take place ahead of Sept. 22 elections, according to news weekly Der Spiegel.

[Not_a_boffin]

ITAR issues?

Common sense issues more like. At what point in the project did someone realise that EASA might not just happily certify a large UAS to operate routinely in what is fairly heavily populated airspace over a fairly heavily populated country?

Ducks not adequately lined up methinks.

There's an awful lot of civil / mil common ground to find before this whole UCAV/UAS thing becomes routine in places where you haven't got segregated and/or controlled airspace and mil controllers.....

As for ITAR, depends what they asked for. If I were US DoD, I'd be very reticent about letting anything to do with the control links to the system out of my very close hold..

[ORAC]

Common sense issues more like. At what point in the project did someone realise that EASA might not just happily certify a large UAS to operate routinely in what is fairly heavily populated airspace over a fairly heavily populated country? But they are happy to carry on negotiating for the Heron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_Heron) and developing the Barracuda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EADS_Barracuda)?

[Not_a_boffin]

You'd hope that people were thinking very seriously about that......

[Bismark]

So what happens with UK Reaper after 2014? If it can't fly within UK/European airspace then where will it fly? And if there is a problem why has the RAF just invested in Waddo rather than stay in Nevada?

[downsizer]

Is reaper core or is it still a UOR?:bored:

[Ivan Rogov]

Why does Reaper need to fly in UK/Europe? You fly it in theatre and once the war/conflict is over you put them in a box and wait for the next one. For OCU and LRE/crew currency base/detach/borrow one or two in the US and do the rest on simulators. In peacetime they will be the cheapest Sqns by far to keep current and capable until needed with no airfield requirements (ATC, crash CAT, Med cover, etc. The Sqn doesn't even need to be at an airfield, but it is useful for direct C-17 access), virtually no fuel bill, reduced fatigue and maintenance, no noise complaints or pollution, etc. They are not like other types that need dragging out the hangar every morning for a couple of flights and intense use in work ups for deployments including expensive transits/deployments to the US and very poor FE@R ratios in comparison. I'm not saying I like drones but that is the reality, they will provide excellent bang for buck!

If Euro Hawk was going to operate at FL700 ish, why couldn't they just have had a bit of restricted airspace for the climb/descent, there isn't much up there to bump into? With significant endurance and good planning to avoid busy periods they would only need to close a bit of airspace for a short period once a day perhaps?

[ORAC]

De Maizière's Drone Disaster? (http://www.aviationweek.com/Blogs.aspx?plckBlogId=Blog:27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog:27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post:d67b94e1-fbaa-4dc2-8955-5691bd3807ff)

Under pressure because of the hundreds of millions of euros Germany had already spent on the Euro Hawk program he cancelled on 14 May, Defense Minister Thomas de Maizière gave a statement on the subject today. German media reports that air traffic control, industry and the Bundeswehr knew as early as 2004 and no later than 2011 that Euro Hawk could not be certified to fly in civilian airspace.

Asked by a journalist whether he ruled out "personal consequences for what the German media is calling "the drone disaster," de Maizière said he would wait until his ministry presents a report on the procurement and testing of Euro Hawk over the last 10 years to the defense committee of the Bundestag, the German parliament, during its next session on 5 June. The Bundesrechnungshof, the German Federal Court of Auditors, is also investigating.

The German Defense Ministry's report will also investigate the impact of the cancellation of Euro Hawk on NATO's Alliance Ground Surveillance (AGS) program, in which Germany is participating. Members of de Maizière's own Christian Democratic Union party as well as of its junior partner in the German government, the Free Democrats, on 20 May called for Germany to withdraw from AGS.

[Not_a_boffin]

air traffic control, industry and the Bundeswehr knew as early as 2004 and no later than 2011 that Euro Hawk could not be certified to fly in civilian airspace

Oh dear Listy.......

[Heathrow Harry]

"So what happens with UK Reaper after 2014? If it can't fly within UK/European airspace then where will it fly?"

Oman, E Africa, Falklands..................

[ORAC]

Here we go again.....

https://www.defensenews.com/smr/nato-2020-defined/2019/12/22/new-nato-surveillance-drones-bet-on-italian-safety-ruling/

New NATO surveillance drones bet on Italian safety ruling (https://www.defensenews.com/smr/nato-2020-defined/2019/12/22/new-nato-surveillance-drones-bet-on-italian-safety-ruling/)

COLOGNE, Germany — NATO members are relying on Italy’s safety certifications for the alliance’s new Alliance Ground Surveillance drone fleet, as questions remain about the aircraft’s ability to fly through Europe’s regulated airspace.

The status of the airworthiness-certification process is outlined in a recent government response to a parliamentary inquiry lodged by the far-left political party Die Linke. According to the document, Berlin is aware that the Italian government issued a so-called military-type certification in late October for the Northrop Grumman-made Global Hawk Block 40 drones, five of which will be stationed in Sigonella, Sicily, in 2020.

But officials said they have no information about the scope of an additional certificate required for actual operation of the drones alongside civilian aircraft, or whether the drones are authorized to fly in Italian airspace at all........

[ORAC]

7000 new "technical positions" scattered across Europe, with major components, such as the fuselage, being trucked from country to country. Airbus does the same, but for hundreds of aircraft - this is for a current order book of 60.......

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2020/12/09/airbus-prepares-for-eurodrone-contract-signing-in-early-2021/

Airbus prepares for ‘Eurodrone’ contract signing in early 2021

STUTTGART, Germany — The cogs are churning for the four-nation Eurodrone unmanned aerial system program, with a development contract approved last month and formal contract signing expected early next year, an Airbus official said Dec. 9.....

Rosenmann also revealed that the Eurodrone’s final assembly will take place at Airbus’ hub in Manching, Germany. “We will only have a single final assembly line,” she said. “This is for efficiency purposes, and clearly also for cost reasons for our customers.”.

Certain elements may be manufactured elsewhere, and then transferred to Manching for final assembly and ground testing. The delivery center will also be located in Manching, she noted. The aircraft fuselage will be fully integrated and assembled in Spain, before being transferred to Germany, Rosenmann added. Meanwhile, questions remain on who will supply Eurodrone’s 120 total engines. “As we are in a competitive process at the moment, we’re not at liberty to reveal any further details,” Rosenmann said......

The current contract provides for 20 Eurodrone systems, each of which will include three aircraft for a total of 60 twin-engine air platforms. Currently, Germany as the program’s lead nation is on contract for seven systems, while Italy has committed to five systems. Spain and France are each targeting four Eurodrone systems.

[Lima Juliet]

What ever happened to EADS Talerion???


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/730x363/image_8be78ba206ddf8beff8486ea40de951261f87ee6.jpeg

[ORAC]

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2020/12/23/nato-chief-wades-into-fiery-german-debate-on-armed-drones/

NATO chief wades into fiery German debate on armed drones

COLOGNE, Germany – NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said he supports the use of armed drones to protect soldiers’ lives, wading into a fierce debate in Germany about buying such technology for future operations.

Stoltenberg told the German press agency DPA that the alliance would use weaponized unmanned aircraft in accordance with international law and in support of deployed troops. “These drones can support forces on the ground and reduce the number of pilots we send in harm’s way,” he was quoted as saying.

His comments come as the question of arming drones has caused a major kerfuffle between the CDU and SPD parties, which form Germany’s coalition government. Specifically, the disagreement is about whether the Bundeswehr should be allowed to lease Israeli-made Heron TP drones armed with missiles. More broadly, though, the debate is about different visions for Germany as a participant in the military fabric of the West.......

[Less Hair]

The current debate is mainly happening within SPD party. The SPD party leadership seems to vote against arming drones for Bundeswehr while quite a few of SPD's defense experts support arming drones.