Fuel to Exhaustion

[B888]

A colleague of mine was asked in JFK airspace "What is
Your fuel to exhaustion " while holding in low vis conditions.
Could someone from ATC answer this and state where
it can be found ( eg. Jeppessen etc. ).
Thank you.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I think it was their way of asking "what's your endurance"..

[B888]

Thank you HD.
If someone has a reference of where this
phrase can be found though, it will be
appreciated.

[aldegar]

First time I've ever heard it.

[stevep64]

That reminds me of the oft repeated thing in the ATC humour thread about speed brakes, they're for my mistakes, not yours.
I haven't flown for a long time, but aren't you supposed to have 45 minutes reserve? I'm not saying ATC have stuffed up, they may have an emergency situation where you need to be kept in the air for a while, but I think if you were getting to the point where you were digging into those reserves, I'd be calling fuel critical and letting them sort things out as far as getting you on the ground.

[vapourer]

This is an extract I found from FAA Order JO 7110.65T Air Traffic Control dated February 2010 and contained in the Pilot/Controller Glossary.

FUEL REMAINING− A phrase used by either pilots
or controllers when relating to the fuel remaining on
board until actual fuel exhaustion. When transmitting
such information in response to either a controller
question or pilot initiated cautionary advisory to air
traffic control, pilots will state the APPROXIMATE
NUMBER OF MINUTES the flight can continue
with the fuel remaining. All reserve fuel SHOULD
BE INCLUDED in the time stated, as should an
allowance for established fuel gauge system error.

Sounds like the controller was using his own version of "Fuel Remaining"

[Lon More]

Sounds like the controller was using his own version

That's the problem with Murricans; they can't speak English.

[Frostie]

Here's the reference: Avianca 052.

Plan & simple, we are not going to have another aircraft fall out of the sky because there was a communication breakdown. This is a touchy subject for the controllers that work the approach into JFK.

You say: "we're a little tight on fuel..." or "we're fuel critical.." What does that mean exactly? The controllers want to know how long can you continue to fly. That seems to be the best way to understand the situation.

What I can't understand is how anyone can have less the 45 minutes & they're not on their way to their alternate.

[chiglet]

You say: "we're a little tight on fuel..." or "we're fuel critical.." What does that mean exactly? The controllers want to know how long can you continue to fly. That seems to be the best way to understand the situation.

What I can't understand is how anyone can have less the 45 minutes & they're not on their way to their alternate


Certain languages [sometimes] do not translate well....BUT.

IF you have a fuel problem, you tell ATC A.S.A.P.

But how [without the say so of ATC] are you going to get to your Alternate?

[Denti]

Dunno, our final reserve fuel is 30 min, not 45 and alternate fuel can be considerably less than 15 min depending on distance to alternate.

Whenever it seems likely that we will dip into final reserve its a PAN situation and when we're sure we will use it, it is MAYDAY which gives us emergency authority. That does not mean we have to use it already, just that our fuel prediction says it is pretty sure we will, so remaining fuel can be considerably more than final reserve.

Of course we should tell ATC as soon as possible if there is any fuel problem, how to get to your alternate is pretty simple though, declare MAYDAY and intentions and simply fly directly there, we are still capable of navigating ourselves.