Air China B777 bases

[Dropp the Pilot]

Heard this was in the pipeline and now it's for real.

How do you say "I'm off, then" in Mandarin?

B777 Captains - Air China - Overseas Bases - 1401270395 - Flightglobal Jobs (http://www.flightglobal.com/jobs/job/b777-captains-air-china-overseas-bases-china-1401270395.htm)

[typhoonpilot]

How do you say "I'm off, then" in Mandarin?




"Hao, wo yao li kai" would probably be the best translation to catch your meaning.

At $168,000 it's about a $100,000 a year pay cut after taxes for an EK Captain to take a U.S. base. They need to bring it up to $250,000 to really get guys interested.



Typhoonpilot

[kingpost]

They must be smoking their socks!

On the 744, Nov 2010 they were offering US190k, in January that went up to US210k and then in March up to US250k.

Don't be foolish and jump at this crap offer, you'll shoot yourself in both feet!

[fatbus]

The add does say that a pay review is underway and new pay rates to follow. Its 11K + 3K at the moment you would have to say 14 +3 might do ( tax Free ) and depends on the roster

[fourgolds]

Possibly a good opportunity. If we dont all rush in and apply therebye giving them a " pool " seeing how many they can get therebye driving the contract down even more . A simple technique used by recruiters/airlines.

Ifhowever they see they cannot get the experience the contract T&C,s will just continue to go up ( as what happened with the 747 contract).

So hold off on those apps boys and girls ( just for once lets try play this one right).

Alas I am a dreamer to think there is any such unity left amongst the pilot fraternity. We alone are responsible for the continous downgrade of this profession. ( ok and the bean counters)

[FlyingCroc]

Why is that Typhoonpilot? Do you have more information? How is the commuting? Is it the US tax? At least you would be back home and out of the Middle East dustbowl.

[Dropp the Pilot]

The initial answer from Parc very pointedly does not mention what the rosters would be like, which is the sole point on which it would turn for me.

Don't care about the money, it's just a chance to live in the real world with enough cash for groceries, trout flies, and shotgun shells.

[FlyingCroc]

Well said mate, that's all that counts. Get out of here and just make a decent living.

[kingpost]

Sounds great to just get out of the dust bowl, but you'll have to face reality at some stage.

Leave the gulf for a 2 year contract at that rate is never going to be worth it unless you're flush with cash, and in that case you may as well give up flying.

For those who jump ship early, don't get peed off with colleagues who join after you on a higher salary.

[Nearly Man]

Oooh, interesting! What about F/Os? I'd pee my pants to stay on the 777 and be based at LHR

[break_break]

I say we stick around and not jump. It is obvious that they are testing waters.
There are no specifics so far, like rosters, annual leave, sick days, mandatory off days etc.
Any desperate souls who probe now, will definitely be whining later when the pay goes up in accordance to shortage of experienced drivers.
I do however hope they can up the pay soon enough for me to be current still with my last 777 PC.

[guntslapper]

Hold off. Better things are on the way.....

[paokara]

its 168k NET so thats more than typhoon makes at Emirates.

Isnt?

[paokara]

Typhoon has became an Emiratiiiii....from Usair or Peidmont appalachian mountains to metropolitan dubai. He change his weardrobe as well.

hahahaha

ask the IRS about him, they thank him all the time.

hahaha

[jackx123]

hey guntslapper,

when do we see some fresh movie updates hehe :E

[Oblaaspop]

Poakara, for your info, that's not even close to what Typhoon makes at EK!

[paokara]

i hope he takes home more than 168 but i doubt it...

[Oblaaspop]

Well, take home will be about the same (no tax here mate), but don't forget the pay is only part of the package!

Does Air China provide free accommodation?

Does it provide a 12% contribution towards a tax free provident fund (you get to keep the money)

Does it provide schooling for the kids?

Does it drive you to work?

Does it provide comprehensive healthcare and dental for you (and the family for a minimal fee)?

Do you get 1st class travel as an Air china Skipper?

As you can see, the package here is FAR better that Air China, hence Typhoons original statement, so indeed yes, they will probably have to up the package by another $100k before they poach many EK skippers.

Hope this helps.

[Kamelchaser]

My last 12 months pay including profit share, Education support allowance, etc etc was a tad short of 220,000USD nett.

That doesn't take into account free accommodation, pick-up for work etc.

So, no, 168K nett would not cut it for me. Try 250,000 and I may start moving off my arm chair.

And don't bother asking me to break the pay down bit by bit. I won't be doing that.

[Dropp the Pilot]

The recently created job for 777 flight instructors at the Boeing company pays about $200,000 annually for month-on month-off rotations ie. about half a year's work.

Granted, these would be significantly experienced people but as a bellwether for both dollar amounts and the type of rotation this points the way for remuneration over the next few years, at least for any company which is looking for people of proven quality. They are starting to get pretty scarce.

[cadidalhopper]

My last 12 months pay including profit share, Education support allowance, etc etc was a tad short of 220,000USD nett.

That doesn't take into account free accommodation, pick-up for work etc.

That ruffly translates into about $37,000 for Uncle Sam even with the foreign income exclusion if you are unfortunate enough to hold a US passport. Of course the free accommodation and rides to work are taxable income as well. How many are handing that amount over to the tax man?

The EK job might not be so attractive when the audits start. :hmm:

[Laker]

First of all maybe we shouldn't be listing our income on a public forum. If future joiners spent 20 minutes doing some research they would be able to get a reasonably accurate idea of the package. Accommodation is taxable but it's also deductible as a foreign resident. I can't remember the number offhand for Dubai (varies by city) but I believe you can write off up to 57,000usd per year in housing allowance. So the value of the EK housing falls within the deductible amount from what i understand.

[falcon10]

What the IRSS doesnt know wont hurt them! Go to UAE and fall off the grid! Why volunteer this to the thieves in the US?

[Bindair Dundat]

Really you are comparing apples and oranges here. For those that have had enough of life in the Middle East, a home based contract from an Asian airline might just be the ticket home. But you cannot compare an expat package to a commuting package and people that choose the latter will be looking at more than just the numbers, though that is the biggest consideration.
It really comes down to lifestyle at the end of the day and what your family considers to be a good one. Yes EK offers a lot of financial perks on paper but the reality on the ground is much different. Schooling is included but EK provides the base minimum for a British curriculum school, most of which are bursting at the seams, not all but good schools are difficult to get into. If you are looking past British curriculum, you will pay dearly for the priviledge of an American style education. You will be out of pocket for that portion of your contract. Housing can be a crap shoot and if you want anything other than company provided compounds, you won't get a decent family style house in Dubai without dipping into your pay cheque as well. Medical is good and this is a benefit that EK has been smart about. But tax free, Dubai is not. Yes the number you make and the figure that lands in your bank account will be the same BUT consumer goods are easily double that of most countries with no protection for consumer rights. Salik is just the start of all the hidden taxes you pay for the priviledge of living there. To stay sane and entertained in the city costs huge.....you can only walk along Jumeriah beach so many times before you need a little variety.
On top of which, the air quality is dire and living in air conditioning for 4 - 6 months per year does not add up to a lot of healthy living. Don't even get me started on the **** driving...
EK and Dubai are doable for awhile but not forever and whether you are willing to "jump ship", as they say, will depend a lot on how smart you have been with your finances during your tenure and what you consider quality of life for your family.
In the near to long-term future, the fight will be between the Middle East and Asia for experienced pilots. Those that choose to leave the pot of gold that is Dubai will do so for reasons extending well beyond the pay cheque. Asia knows this.

[jinglied]

Apples and Oranges.. I suppose so.

Depending on where you intend to live on this Air China contract (which I will look at thanks to this thread) the salary can be TAX FREE. Working for a Chinese company and living in Canada, your salary is not taxed by the Canadian Gov't. With the JFK base, this could work well if you lived in the east of the country... easy commute.

And some of the claims made here with respect to the EK package I think come up a bit short.

For instance .. Since when did EK Skippers get 1st Class Travel? When I left 2 years ago, it was Business Class UPGRADABLE to First, space available of course. F/O's were always Economy, upgradable to Business. And these were ONCE per year, I.E., vacation ticket home. Has this changed? If so, good for you guys!! (Traveling with a family of four, we never got upgraded).

The 12% Company portion of the Provident Fund ( I thought it was 10%?).... You keep it all ONLY if you complete 7 years in the company, 70% after 5 years. If you leave 1 day short of five years, you get zero. Has this changed?

And, as mentioned, the Education allowance can definitely leave you out of pocket, as it did me to the tune of almost 10,000$ (35,000dhs or so) my last year there for my 2 children, education and busing.

And yes, the cost of living in Dubai, as I recall well, went through the roof recently, (with the exception of rent/property but who would buy anything a few years ago.. or now?) Moving back to my home country, (as this basing contract allows) saves me at least, $1000.00 per month on every day cost of living as compared to Dubai, the greater part of that coming from the cost of groceries. And my mortgage rate is just under 3%.

If I have some of the EK figures above incorrect, please feel free to let me know!!

The two biggest negative factors to this Air China contract as I see it is that it ends at year 55, and the roster may be unworkable.

Jinglie'd

[Alconguin Crusader]

What an Emirates pilot has to take into account is how much he is working and what that translates into an hourly rate.
With lines north of 90 hours a month I am barely making $118 an hour. A figure which is what most international wideobdy FOs make. Yes they pay tax on that but they don't pay 2-3 months salary to educate their kids. They don't pay 5 bills when they go to the grocery store or out to eat in Dubai. They probably don't drop a brick when they do Christmas shopping at the local mall.
What I am saying is Dubai is very expensive as we all know.
Yes Typhoon and others are making good coin but what do they get for that coin. Lot's of hours and the privledge of living in a 3rd world country.
One has to wonder how long we all are going to live. Historically international pilots have only worked 75 hours a month. As our health bares witness we are over 20% of that monthly historical figure with many backside of the clock flying hours and mulitple time zone transgressions.
Are we going to live to 65, 70? I can't imagine living as long as our forefathers did and they did not live long and they had it loads easier than we do currently.
The money is good (not great) but what good is that money going to do you when you are either divorced because you are always away and when you do see the wife you are dog ass tired or you are pushing up daises?

[Bindair Dundat]

Tax free while living in Canada whilst working for a Chinese company? I don't know about that one. If that was the case, ALOT of Canadian pilots would gladly go for this. I know that Korean used to have a tax treaty but that was abolished about a decade or so ago. Those buggars made off like bandits until that changed. But China.....never heard that one before.......

[TangoUniform]

Everyone here is correct in their perspective. For some this is Nirvana, for others, it's day to day before they leave. But the tipping point for all is the rosters. No matter what the money, perks and free transportation is, a body cannot continue this pace for years on end. There is no end in sight for over 90-95 hours a month. Night in and night out, changing of time zones and hours on end in an aircraft enviornment.

It is not the terms and conditions of a contract that will force pilots to depart, it is the scheduling and rostering and the impact it has on their families.

So we can talk all we want about our compensation, our free car rides, free medical dental etc, etc. Unfortunately, it is effect that our rostering has on our health and family life. What is the price on that?

[SOPS]

As much as managment likes to pretend it is...95 hours a month is NOT sustainable.

[Dropp the Pilot]

A chap who has been here long enough to take the measure of our superiors said to me "somewhere right now, TC and his tennis-partners are agog at the hours we will do 'look, you can work these guys 95 hours, they don't resign and they don't die'. What would be their incentive to change the status quo? No room in the Lloyds Offshore account for more bonuses? No room at the villa to park additional black Range Rovers?"

If anything expect your workload to ratchet up experimentally to see how much more can be extracted.

[break_break]

jinglied
Very well illustrated post with regards to joining EK and living in the sandpit, a must read for new joiners. I'm in the exact predicament.

Bindair Dundat
Apparently it's true that the Canucks do get tax free doles from the Chinese, but not the Yanks. As with the Koreans, the reverse is true.

If only my partner agrees to return to Toronto AND Air China ups the T & Cs, I'll certainly give it a go.

[waffler]

Bear in mind gentlemen that it will take at least 6 months from assessment to job offer as Air China will only move as fast as the CAAC allow them to.
So dont burn any bridges during that time.

[yada.yada.yada]

Tango Uniform has it right fellas...funny though, I remember when the 90+ hour rosters made their debut a couple of years ago, everybody said "this won't last long, it's not sustainable". But here we are over two years later...still have 90+ hour rosters.

The Dalai Lama said, when asked about humanity, said that mankind confuses him:

"Man sacrifices his health to make money and then later uses the money to recoup his health".

[Craic Ore]

Breaker,

I'm pretty sure it's not "tax free" for the chinese company, that gig doesn't exist anymore. What actually exists is you are free from double taxation and the chinese give you a tax receipt for what you pay in china. So you might end up paying 10% over an above that depending on what province you live in, as well as your CPP and EI. Still better than KAL at this time, but they might have up the ante soon as I hear their floodgates are open with the USD plunge and 5 years of frozen pay.

[jinglied]

With respect to taxation issues between Canada and China;

Craic Ore is quite correct in saying there are is no double taxation between the two countries. However, depending on the type of employment, business, or services you offer, the rules tend to change a bit. I have copied the following from the CRA website (The treaty between Canada and China) reflecting the taxation rules as they apply to pilots (and other aircraft/shipborne crew)

As follows :


1. Subject to the provisions of Articles 16, 18 and 19, salaries, wages and other similar remuneration derived by a resident of a Contracting State in respect of an employment shall be taxable only in that Contracting State unless the employment is exercised in the other Contracting State. If the employment is so exercised, such remuneration as is derived therefrom may be taxed in that other Contracting State.
2. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, remuneration derived by a resident of a Contracting State in respect of an employment exercised in the other Contracting State shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned Contracting State if:
a

) the recipient is present in that other Contracting State for a period or periods not exceeding in the aggregate 183 days in the calendar year concerned; and
b
) the remuneration is paid by, or on behalf of, an employer who is not a resident of that other Contracting State; and
c
) the remuneration is not borne by a permanent establishment or a fixed base which the employer has in that other Contracting State.
3. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs 1 and 2, remuneration in respect of an employment exercised aboard a ship or aircraft operated in international traffic by an enterprise of a Contracting State, shall be taxable only in that Contracting State.


......



It is in paragraph 3, you are taxed ONLY in the Contracting state, in this case, China.


Jinglie'd

[break_break]

Craic Ore and jinglied,
Thanks for saving me the trouble. It's now a toss between Downunder or Toronto.
I have no doubt the 90over hours shagging is here to stay. Enough said.

Cheers.

[gardenshed]

Do any of you financial gurus out there know if the same applies to the Uk & Europe regarding the taxation situation.
Thanks in advance.

[cerbus]

Don't forget Yanks, you have to pay taxes on any income above $92,000 or so. That includes your education allowance, your spacious villa, dry cleaning and car transportation. In addition to the above if you are lucky enough to get audited by the IRS like so many US Airways pilots have you will be excluded from the $92,000 exemption when flying over international waters, whatever that means.
So Typhoon and the other Yanks claiming to make $268,000 or so don't forget to pay income taxes on that outrageous amount. You have to fund your wars and the IRS is opening a Field Office in lovely Dubai to help you depart with your money.
Good luck mate!

[Craic Ore]

Jinglied,

I can't argue with what you posted, right from the horses mouth. I think the problem comes in when you have your family residing in Canada. If they are residents, so to are you. With that comes taxation. If you happen to chat with a tax attorney, please PM me, I'd be happy to find out more.

[QCM]

Maybe guys should open a thread about american taxation system,and leave this one free to talk about China Airlines...

[etops777]

QCM

It's Air China (mainland China) not China Airlines(Taiwan)

[Craic Ore]

QCM,

As above, it's 1. Air China from the mainland and 2. We're talking about Canadian taxation, not American. Seeing as this is a middle east forum with lots of expats that would like to head home one day, talking about the implications of taxation for a contract with a home country base is VERY relevant to this thread, in my opinion.

One might think the best place for a discussion about Air China is on the Far East Forum? This can be used for expats in the middle east to discuss the pros and cons of this contract? Maybe you agree just a little?

If someone does figure out this taxation thing for CAN with regards to having your family residing there, please post it here.

Thanks.

[Laker]

Cerbus,

You are posting quite a bit of misinformation.

[jinglied]

Laker ..

From speaking to several American colleagues, Cerbus' statement about the first 90,000$ (or thereabouts) tax exemption is accurate. I'm not so sure about the "IRS Field Office in Dubai". That sounds suspect.


Craic,

That is tax free for pilots living in Canada with family, without family, whatever. As a resident of Canada, you pay no income tax if working for Air China.

For an individual earning an income, it is your 'residency status' that determines whether or not you pay tax to the Canadian Government on all your worldly earnings, whether earned inside OR outside of Canada. Normally, if you have dependents, I.E., family in Canada, you will be deemed a resident and therefore subject to Canadian tax on said income. This will usually apply regardless of where you live. However, in this case, that's why that statement in paragraph 3 is there, to cover residents of Canada. A pilot residing in Canada OR a pilot who has an apartment in China, works for Air China and has dependents in Canada, pays no tax to CRA.



Jinglie'd

[richard III]

Hi All:
not here for a debate, on the contrary, does anyone knows where the Parc office is in PVG or PEK?. Easier for me to go enquire directly during a layover than debate what's better, EK or AC
Cheers

[Suvarnabhumi]

Parc Aviation Contacts Dublin and China

Dublin:-

Senan Haugh 
Client Services Manager
Parc Aviation Ltd 
St. John's Court, Santry, Dublin 9, Ireland. 

T +353 1 8161734 
F +353 1 8161711 
M+353 87 6060007 

E:[email protected]

Beijing:

Misty Fu
Senior Administrator
Parc Aviation Ltd
China Office, Shunyi District,
Beijing 101312
P.R. China
T +86 1080486340 ext: 4075
F +86 1080486568
M +86 139 1160 3437
E: [email protected]


Best agency I've worked with so far.

[Air China Expat]

Anybody considering a contract with Air China needs to fully understand the current situation regarding bases so here is my summary.

Although the agencies have always been quick to list the various bases on offer (traditionally LHR, FRA, SYD, MEL & YVR) they have never been able to actually confirm any pilots base before joining date. The truth is that you apply and attend screening without anyone (from Air China) discussing bases with you. On your first day on contract you and your classmates will attend a meeting in the office in PEK and be given a sort of 'induction' briefing. This is the first chance you will actually get to state your preferred base and discuss it's availability (or lack thereof). Nothing the agency may have said to you up to this point (or indeed after) carries any weight with Air China. It's not unusual to find that they have made incorrect assumptions about where you will want to be based, using information like your nationality (for example a Brit living with his family in Sydney was initially based at LHR and a Canadian living in Germany was slated for YVR). Your chosen base may actually be full but the agency either forgot to mention this or pleads ignorance despite the existing pilots regularly emailing them saying "why are you still advertising for pilots at Frankfurt when you know full well the base already has a waiting list?". There was a time when Air China over-crewed bases, particularly in Europe, just to get guys through the door but the existing pilots started kicking off (especially the Aussies) so that situation seems to be over for now.

The problem that has been developing recently is that they have been closing established bases with no consideration at all for the guys that are based there. This has mainly been due to the arrival of the B777-300ERs but not always. Specifically, over the past twelve months, Munich base has closed (it closed one year ago and is just re-opening), Rome has closed, Frankfurt has closed (happening right now), Heathrow is closing in March as is the temporary Paris base. Frankfurt, London and Paris are closing because the route is going 777 (but who knows for how long) but Munich and Rome closed while still remaining A330 routes. This is because not all flight departments are allowed to work with foreigners and these routes have been allocated to the Chengdu crews so that means foreigners out. The aircraft are still the same Beijing based aircraft flying the same route with the same flight number but because the flight is allocated to a different department the foreigners at these bases had to move to other bases at their own expense and inconvenience.

For the past four years, Air China has been receiving a steady stream of new A330s and consequently, most new routes have been on that fleet. More bases have opened and few have closed so the foreign pilots have had a reasonably steady life. Now though things are changing rapidly as the first of nineteen 777-300ERs have started to arrive and some routes are switching to that fleet. It's important to point out though that Air China are still barely halfway into a total commitment of 54 A330s and a new one arrives every month or two. They claim this will then be the largest A330 fleet in the world although I've never bothered to check this. It is expected that there will be a lot of switching around between these two fleets as operations demand so it might be quite normal for the 777 to fly a route in summer and the A330 in winter etc. The problem is that from now on, we have TWO new fleets being delivered in parallel rather than ONE fleet replacing another one and this brings nothing but uncertainty to each and every long haul route. A good example is Heathrow where the A330 pilots being booted out are being told that they may well be back after summer 2012 as the 777 may only be needed for the Olympics. To further complicate things, Air China also have 787s, A350s and B747-8s on order so there are no less than five types of new wide body being delivered any of which can be put on any route. Of course a route could also go to the existing A340s, 772s, 744s, 767s or remain on type but change 'flight department' (like MUN or FCO) so hopefully you get the picture that base stability is fast becoming a thing of the past here.

What has prompted this posting specifically is that Air China have just closed the long established and most heavily crewed A330 base that we have on the foreign pilot network (Frankfurt) and that we were given around three weeks notice of this happening. I feel a need to let prospective applicants know this. All Frankfurt pilots were simply asked what base we wanted for the December roster onwards. Some have taken LHR or CDG temporarily but there simply aren't enough European bases now (after March anyway) for the number of pilots we have even though they really need us on the fleet. New destinations on the 330 include twice daily to Singapore (taken FROM the 777) and also to Delhi so that is where they want to deploy the pilots (i.e. effectively making us Beijing based).

Just to be clear, no relocation is offered, there are no staff travel concessions and you are expected to just sort it out yourself at your own expense and as we've just seen you may only get three weeks notice (despite them insisting on three months if you want to leave). So if you're thinking of joining (on either the 777 or the A330) then you really have to think about how important the base is in your decision. Pilots have already joined on the A330 on a two year contract only to find that the contract term is absolutely meaningless as their base of LHR or FRA has been closed (to them) just a couple of months after joining. Don't be fooled into thinking that as the 773 is the newest aircraft to join the fleet that all it's bases will be stable, there are still far more A330s to be delivered than 773s as well as all of the other new wide body types. In the last couple of years alone, LHR has been a 744 base, then A330 and now B777, yet apparently the A330 is very rarely full so a switch back post-Olympics may well happen.

Air China also introduced domestic flying for foreigners earlier this year. This means an increasing amount of your time is spent flying out of Beijing to destinations such as Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Hong Kong, Taipei and Seoul, instead of flying on to the base you had originally joined for. Shanghai in particular can have regular four hour ground delays for startup. The 777 has far more domestic flights than the A330 (remember you will be flying the dirty old -200s as well as the new -300s).

I hope this helps. I'm not trying to be negative for the sake of it but am simply pointing out a major issue that you might not be aware of in the hope that pressure is then exerted on Air China by the agencies to sort these things out. Beware of any agency that promises you any fixed base as Air China have the right to change the type on your chosen route with zero notice and no agency can do anything about it. Similarly, assume there will be no pay rise unless one actually happens - it's been rumoured for at least two years.

[Dropp the Pilot]

....and thank-you very much for taking the time.

That pretty much is what I expected, though I had been attracted to the job. I really can't see any Chinese operator giving a moment's thought to their contracted pilots when considering route and type changes.

To me, it seems the only viable option for someone wishing to be a contract pilot and to also spend time in a base of their own choice is to select a job which permits rotations of a month on/month off or similar.

[fliion]

A.C.E.

Your post is absolutely critical for guys to read if considering Air China.

Very informative.

Well done, but more importantly... thank you.

f.

[max AB]

Good info, any thing like this helps and I would assume the same applies to CSA contracts. I asked an agent what happens to your base if the airline changes type and they confidently replied the airline would type rate you on the new jet. Almost fell off my chair in disbelief...

[oli737]

last update , contract has changed overnight . No more commutable bases offered . You will be based in Bejing flying domestic routes on an old 777-200.

[break_break]

Air China Expat
Absolutely, and wholeheartedly thankful to your informative comments. :D:D:D

Now it's time to break the great news to my other half, and she can go ahead and buy the new car since we are gonna be here for couple more years.:mad:

[JammedStab]

Will Air China put you on a new aircraft type or are you just let go if your type no longer exits?

[555orange]

FYI: the Canada tax issue is totally incorrect. The above references are out of context. They apply to Canadian citizen non residents. If you are resident in Canada, it matters not where your income comes from, you will always be taxed. If you are an Air China Capt living in Canada, flying abroad, you will be taxed at the normal rate. Around 45% for that income level. second if you are not a Canadian citizen, you are not permitted to live in Canada without a valid visa. These are all basic international work and tax laws. Where Canada differs from the US is only that a Canadian citizen working abroad and is a Non resident of Canada, they are no longer subject to tax on their international income. To be a non Res, you cannot have a home for your personal use in Canada, along with various other limitations. Moral: if you living there and using the services- you will pay tax. Period.

[jinglied]

555orange,

You should read more.

Just like the KAL pilots who lived in Canada and paid NO TAX in Canada until the tax laws changed recently, it is still true for CHINA.

You are totally, completely full of ****e with that last post. You do not know what you are talking about ... PERIOD.

Jinglie'd

[fatbus]

You are both wrong, Korea had a tax treaty with Canada that ended Jan 2010 ( I think it was ) and the deal with China is no double taxation ( not tax free or a treaty) unless you call double taxation a treaty. The double taxation applies to several countries.

[zhang xu]

Air China contract, A330 or B777 is a total failure.
Bases are closed or changed without notice, aircraft types changed, and Air China expects the pilots to either relocate to Copenhagen ( not the perfect airport to commute to and from, with all due respect to our danish colleagues ) or another aiport far from your home and pay for the positionning full fare with the tacky and changing rosters they produce.

YVR and SYD should go B777 next year, B777 in FRA and CDG, LHR in summer A330 in winter, how do you expect to have a life and make any stable plan.

As far as salary in concerned, well, the wages haven't changed since day one, except downward, as you have to pay for commuting , annual visa and passport charges, not talking about currency exchange rate fiasco....

Oh, and I forgot to mention the NASAlike medical examination every 6 months, where at least 2 or 3 pilots fail and get unpaid leave, waiting for the m:mad:n chinese doctors to get their bribe.....
Rosters now change at least 4 to 5 times a month, consequently, your full fare tickets you bought are going to the trash....

1 resignation in December, 3 pilots not renewing their contracts in March 2012, and hardly any new joiner. A lot of guys get advises from inhouse pilots telling them to stay away, other make their own mind, looking at better contracts such as Hainan or China Southern. Even Hong Kong airline shines compared to Air China.

Stay Away from Air China

[samjetblaster]

Even China southern is not that rosy.Stay away from china.Period:E

[Lupin.lin]

CSA cadet here. First, respond to " I am off, then." The best translation will be "溜了溜了liú lē liú lē" which is directly translated as "off, off, I am off", it's more urban and modern to say so.
Anyway, I am here at the forums trying to find some facts about those legacies in China including CSA, well, thank you captains, now I already found something atrocious...
And, really wanna have a more clear picture about what life will be and actually I ponder to work for some American legacies someday, any guy who worked in china and know how your Chinese collegues got hired by ANY AIRLINES OUTSIDE OF CHINA, please contact me, thank you :)
FB: Lupin Lin (with Cargair flight school)
WeChat: lupinfolupinforlor