View Full Version : Buddha Air Crash Nepal
Melax
25th Sep 2011, 04:05
Looks like we have another Nepal crash. Plane missing with 19 passengers, developing story.
Links:
BBC News - Nepal plane missing with foreign tourists on board (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-15051112)
Small plane with 19 people crashes in Nepal - Yahoo! (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/small-plane-19-people-crashes-nepal-033140280.html;_ylt=A0LaVrdNqH5OTVwAGwbOfMl_;_ylu=X3oDMTNyYj VmNzNuBG1pdANKdW1ib3Ryb24gV29ybGRTRgRwa2cDZjQ2NDJmZjEtZGRjNy 0zYjg3LWE4M2UtNzI1MWVkYzVhY2U0BHBvcwMxBHNlYwNqdW1ib3Ryb24Edm VyAzI5ZjA5NDM)
im from uranus
25th Sep 2011, 04:06
BBC News - Nepal tourist plane crashes near Lalitpur (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-15051112)
:(
jackcarls0n
25th Sep 2011, 04:49
1900D of Buddha Air Crashed at around 8 AM local time approximately 20 Km from the airport. Was on the landing segment.
19 People Died. 18 On spot and one in the hospital.
Sad moment for everyone in Nepal.
Capt. Tamrakar, Co-Pilot- Padma Adhikari
salivamonster
25th Sep 2011, 07:30
Report said it was foggy. Anyone has access to weather report around the airport?
Capetonian
25th Sep 2011, 08:12
Sadly it's no longer a 'missing' aircraft, they have located wreckage, and found a survivor but he died onthe way to hospital.
What a tragedy for all concerned and also for that welcoming country, which really needs tourism.
ron83
25th Sep 2011, 08:27
Crash: Buddha B190 near Kathmandu on Sep 25th 2011, impacted terrain (http://avherald.com/h?article=4437c195&opt=0)
Full story, metars are there as well.
The Ancient Geek
25th Sep 2011, 09:12
Very sad, Nepal seems to be prone to similar accidents. The mountainous terrain is unforgiving of the slightest navigational error.
The photos show that they were within a few feet of clearing the summit and the lack of significant fire damage leads me to suspect that they may have been low on fuel, possibly stooging around waiting for the fog to break.
Im curious what kit they had on board... Most 1900D's that I have seen are pretty well decked out with GNSS and EGPWS....
If the yellow line drawn in google is the approach track (extended centerline) then they are quite a way off.....
jackcarls0n
25th Sep 2011, 09:48
From what I know is that the Mountain Flights are conducted on VFR , however the departure and the arrival maybe conducted on IFR. Looks like they were making a VFR arrival, wouldnt be a IFR approach, and usually the pilots here tend to fly IFR approach on GPS rather than VOR due to regular VOR outage due to power failures. And might have ended too close to the terrain in fog etc.
Buddha Air is considered to the be the safest airline, but...guess the crew ran out of luck.
Also, the copilot was a captain flying with another captain for clearence.
The aircraft is equipped with GPWS and Weather Radar etc. Maybe a miss calculation or a technical issue. Have to wait till the CVR and FDR are checked.
Fuel wouldn't be an issue given they always carry higher fuel plus they is no info about if the aircraft was holding.
Are these aircraft fitted with FDR? I thought only a CVR?
vserian
25th Sep 2011, 11:02
One of my known buddy there said they had an engine failure but he wasnt completely sure about that
jackcarls0n
25th Sep 2011, 13:54
They are suppose to be equipped with Type II FDR as per the requirements.
Engine flameout at low altitude could be likely as per my other friend but nothing was declared over to the ATC for the same. As informed by colleague flying in 1900C in the area from anohter airline.
Hopefully the report or initial investigation comes out. But most probably the Civil Aviation and the airline might try to twik the details to save their a**:mad:
Levraimatt
25th Sep 2011, 19:02
Yeah sure, like your mountain flying experience gives you the authority to emit such opinion... :suspect:
jackcarls0n
26th Sep 2011, 16:31
?? Not authority just the sharing the information I got. A speculation is what it is called.
But the initial info that came today from the military is that its a case of CFIT. VFR flight trying to dodge the weather(fog) and ended up in the hills.
jackx123
26th Sep 2011, 17:04
initial report points towards pilot error - equipment was running normal at impact
ATC Watcher
27th Sep 2011, 06:01
I can confirn that Buddah is definitively one, if not the, best operator in KTM. However you can only do that much in that environment. This is not a "mountain" accident is is a 3rd world country accident. With an International airport located inside the capital city valley surrounded by high hills means lots of pollution, smog all year long fueled by ever increasing number of 2-stoke mopeds , very poor visibility , frequent power outages knocking down (sometimes ) the very few nav aids still working , no ILS ( not possible due to excessive glide slope and no money for MLS ), very particular procedures to avoid terrain, etc..
Another aspect is the lack of ground intrastrucure, meaning air transport is vital . Tourism is the first source of income, so tourist flights are also vital. all this leads to commercial pressure . Commercial pressure in a 3rd world environment is deadly. That explains most of the accidents in Nepal. No need to crucify the 2 guys ( or girls, yes, Buddah has female captains ) in front. It is part of the overall daily routine.
I feel sorry for them.
avionimc
27th Sep 2011, 08:33
ILS ( not possible due to excessive glide slope and no money for MLS ), very particular procedures to avoid terrain, etc..
GPS RNAV Approaches are not expensive; it is time to implement some in South Asia.
Sqwak7700
27th Sep 2011, 11:02
ATC Watcher:
Commercial pressure in a 3rd world environment is deadly
Could not agree with you more. Having worked mostly in First World carriers, where even there the pressure is very high. It is the reason that I avoid third world airlines, especially ones crewed locally.
MungoP
27th Sep 2011, 11:43
GPS RNAV Approaches are not expensive; it is time to implement some in South Asia.
The VOR approach that exists for that runway (and is typically flown using GPS for greater accuracy) while being more demanding than many is quite capable of ensuring a safe approach and landing provided the crew stick to the rules. Assuming no technical failure in either the ground or a/c equipment this was not a failure of the approach guidance system.
iflyatr2018
28th Sep 2011, 05:25
An eye witness said that they saw the aircraft on fire before it crashed. In case of aviation accident, it is always easy to blame the pilot so that rest of the people investigating can do off with an easy answer. It is damn frustrating.
BUSHJEPPY
28th Sep 2011, 06:46
yeah yeah, there was tense fog when it hit the hill, how can you have a witness seing it coming down on fire :ugh:
Read this blog:
East West | Travel Blog by Kunda Dixit | Nepali Times | nepalitimes.com » Blog Archive » Once is not enough? (http://nepalitimes.com.np/blogs/kundadixit/2011/09/25/once-is-not-enough/)
westhawk
28th Sep 2011, 09:18
Thank you for the link BUSHJEPPY.
I found the article "Once is not enough?" to be most interesting. I'm favorably impressed with Mr. Dixit's article and look forward to reading more of his work. I have bookmarked the Nepali Times for future reference and will refer to it for matters of interest to me in Nepal. Thanks again.
sunday driver
6th Oct 2011, 20:06
FYI, 3 pics from 2004
033_33 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://flic.kr/p/ats256)
Swiss Cheese
7th Oct 2011, 12:54
Since the GPWS is the last line of defence in CFIT circumstances, is anyone willing to hazard whether it did work as designed?
Also of note with these Operations, (like Agni Air last year), is that they only buy $20,000 per passenger insurance. They forget to tell you that beforehand...
The Ancient Geek
7th Oct 2011, 16:23
In mountainous terrain like Nepal GPWS is going to produce far too many nuisance alerts to be of much use for typical local flights.
safetypee
7th Oct 2011, 17:49
TAG, if you look at the details of Enhanced GPWS (ICAO mandate), then with sufficient database coverage the system should work very well.
A quick check of the Honeywell system suggests that all of Nepal, and specifically Kathmandu are in the latest database updates.
aterpster
8th Oct 2011, 17:00
Greek:
In mountainous terrain like Nepal GPWS is going to produce far too many nuisance alerts to be of much use for typical local flights.
Not if the TAWS database is refined for airport-vicinity ops and particularly with a good synthetic vision display that is integrated with the TAWS.
For about $2,000 you can fit a synthetic vision-look ahead multi function display, but of course at that price it isn't certified. Would it save your life? yep, as would a $600 Garmin aera. Again, great for VFR...
Perhaps where safety is enhanced by the use of these items, then their uptake should be supported by the regulators, not roadblocked.
(I use the Aera in a Navajo, C-337 and helicopter for terrain awareness, as an "adjunct & non interference" to the standard 6 pack/ Garmin 430 etc... )
ATC Watcher
12th Oct 2011, 14:42
Again, great for VFR...
All sighsteeing flights in Nepal are operated VFR. This one included.
True, the latest Garmin 796 gadget (*) at 2500 USD would have been enough in this case here if desorientation and going into IMC was the real reason.
(*) but you cannot get it before December at least , such is the demand )
rigpiggy
13th Oct 2011, 21:49
I don't see an EGPWS in the panel there, have they put in a sandel 3400? or equivalent
himalaya
14th Oct 2011, 20:52
Technology is a tool which must be used as and when necessary. However, no matter how advanced technology is, it will not be able to prevent accidents from happening. Those who can prevent accidents are the humans. I would look at the crew, ATC and the safety culture in the airline and in the Aviation community as a whole. Investigation report, when it is out would probably determine the probable causes and the contributing factors. But there are few simple steps that can be taken to avoid such accidents from taking place in the future.
1. Improving the safety culture of the airline and the Aviation community to make them realize that 'safety' is the main goal of a flight not profit.
2. Whether VFR or IFR, following the applicable flight rules religiously.
Kathmandu is one airport where aircraft have crashed in the hills/mountains surrounding the valley in all 4 directions. Three of the accidents (under VFR) were of similar nature; Necon Air (HS-748) on the west, Skyline (DHC-6) on the south and the recent Buddha Air (BE-1900D) on the south east.
The Ancient Geek
15th Oct 2011, 08:59
Nepal is not an easy place to fly, there is simply too much geography and too much weather for the normal rules to be 100% reliable.
Nepal is a very demanding place to fly, precision navigation is essential and the slightest mistake can be fatal.
There are no easy answers.
aterpster
15th Oct 2011, 14:26
The Ancient Greek:
Nepal is not an easy place to fly, there is simply too much geography and too much weather for the normal rules to be 100% reliable.
Nepal is a very demanding place to fly, precision navigation is essential and the slightest mistake can be fatal.
There are no easy answers.
Some mountainous areas are just plain high risk, especially where there are the weather factors such as those that exist in Nepal.
Related to this is that some "experts" saw RNP AR in high-end birds as a panacea for mountainous terrain airports. Not so; there still has to be a reasonable terrain environment to make it all fit.