Another Security Stuff-UP at Sydney

[YPJT]

I wonder if the Security Screening (http://www.news.com.au/national/qantas-terminal-at-sydney-airport-shut-over-security-scare/story-e6frfkvr-1226140643254) company will be looking nervously at its contract? :E

[Mstr Caution]

Olivia Wirth interviewed on radio station 2UE Sydney has described the incident as a one off event...........

Exactly the same nature as this one off event !!

Melbourne Airport Qantas terminal evacuated | Security breach (http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/in-through-exit-thousands-evacuated-at-qantas-terminal-20110407-1d53v.html)

[Ka.Boom]

With all due respect look at the boof heads who do the screening.It is surprising that there aren't more screw ups

[Sunfish]

Sister in Law stuck in this mess in Sydney.

...:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::):):):):):):)

[bigbrother]

as an operating crew member, I would love to arrive at screening one day with the crash axe in my hot little hand. Oh you won't let me through with an axe? Hmmmm well it's a tool of trade, you tool.
:ugh: one day

[Qantas 787]

Ka.boom has a point. And yet they are paying people to stand at the exits - aren't they meant to stop this sort of thing?

You shake your head but it will happen again in a couple of months - and all because of the incompetence of the security companies.

[Octane]

Bigbrother,

My brother got stopped by the goons because he was carrying a swiss army knife. Took much discussing, haggling and arguing before he could proceed. His "look, if I'm going to lose my head and want to take out the FO, I'll have to use the crash axe if you don't let me keep my knife" comment finally allowed common sense to prevail. Yes, he was the Captain of the aircraft, in uniform with pilot bag etc etc.

Madness.............

[mach2male]

The only place in the world where an ASIC means jack****e

[YPJT]

The only place in the world where an ASIC means jack****e

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Australia the only place in the world that has ASICs?

They certainly don't convince the idiots running aviation security that you are any less a threat to aviation. Just watch what happens in Perth during CHOGM.

[clotted]

Point 1
The cause of the problem in Sydney was 2 idiot passengers walking through the wrong door was it not? Again.

Point 2
For the lilywhites who want aircrew treated differently: what about Egyptair, Japanair, Silkair and Fedex, all aircraft security problems with dire consequences where a pilot was the perpetrator albeit not using a Swiss army knife.

[Octane]

Hello Clotted,

If the airline/ pax trust the tech crew to operate the aircraft competently and get everyone to their destination safely then I believe they can be trusted to behave themselves with a swiss army knife...

A swiss army knife is basically a small tool kit, who knows what scenario could occur where one might come in handy?

Cheers

Octane

[Old Akro]

If aircrew aren't to be treated differently, then lets drop the ASIC thing and save the money. If we are going to be put through the mill to get them and pay for the priveledge, then they should be worth something.

[Captain Dart]

Clot, As a 'lilywhite', my understanding is that no weapons were involved in any of those incidents except the Fed Ex. Silkair remains open to speculation but there are rumours that cabin equipment was used to disable the First Officer.

Every pilot walks through security with two weapons: his or her hands that will manipulate a machine carrying hundreds of tonnes of jet fuel at 8/10 of the speed of sound.

This 'lilywhite' only wants to be 'treated differently' in the form of a little bit of priority in the various queues to get his passengers airborne on time; or after working all night, over those who have been sleeping, watching movies or drinking wine. Just a cheap sign from Officeworks saying 'priority for crew' would not be much to ask (this is usually available at many other airports in the world).

It's an ill wind that blows no one any good, and 9/11 was just the excuse the security industry needed to milk taxpayers, airlines and passengers of millions to provide service of questionable value staffed mainly by boofheads who would probably be unemployable in any other industry, causing stuffups such as the subject of this thread.

The two passengers who walked the wrong way (by the way, ever heard of 'turnstiles'? I'm sure they are not expensive to install) were not the 'idiots'. The real idiots were probably too busy taking nail files off little old ladies or checking pilots for 'explosives'.

[C441]

Part of the problem is that the security staff at these doors are located inside the sterile area...to advise when a breach has occurred. :rolleyes:

If they moved to the other side of the fence they may actually be able to prevent rather than report.

[DutchRoll]

For the lilywhites who want aircrew treated differently...

Well the reality is that you can't avoid treating aircrew differently, or the job will never get done. In most places around the world this is well recognised, but in Australia we seem to have this silly "everyone is equal" mentality which is generally taken to ridiculous extremes.

It's somewhat of an in-house joke at QF for example, that for international departures you are dropped off airside with only a precursory ASIC check, with all your bags, then you proceed from airside using your ASIC card in the reader, into the terminal so that you can then go through security! After which you walk to the gate, then go back airside from whence you came!

At the very least, most other places around the world have dedicated crew lanes or an expedited crew screening procedure and exercise a bit of discretion with the pilots. But not in Australia. Nosirree. We're all equal here.

As the security screener at a major Australian airport told me one day whilst diligently inspecting my pocket umbrella, delaying me at the screening line in full uniform: "I need to check this sir, as it could be used to conceal something which might allow you to force your way into the cockpit". No, we wouldn't want that would we? I might be able to then load the route and performance data into the FMC......:ugh:

[Captain Dart]

Yes, it's time uniformed crew were given priority in all Security, Customs and Quarantine queues.

We don't see the Security, Customs and Quarantine personnel themselves lining up with hundreds of passengers to get to or from work, do we?

[mach2male]

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Australia the only place in the world that has ASICs?
Yes that is correct.Australia issues these idnetity cards after rigorous background checks.Further I have no problem with screening as long as it does not impact on the on the ontime departure of the aircraft I'm operating on.To do the security check properly Qantas should provide an extra 30 mins between sign on and aircraft departure.
Security screeners all round the world seem aware of integrity of the ASIC.This awareness is not obvious in Australia...their place of issue

[neville_nobody]

ASIC's are actually a complete joke and a money making scam.

They are NOT valid forms of identification and the government doesn't even hold the particulars on who has one. That is all controlled by a private company or your airline.

[Mstr Caution]

I was screened for explosive trace detection last week. The screener apologized & stated they had recently had an audit done & they were told they were screening a disproportionate amount of pilots compare to cabin crew & passengers.

I replied, hold on what's the proportion between the amount of pilots comming thru screening compared to all others.

The reply, "mate, I know. But we've been told to screen more pilots"

MC

[ampclamp]

A high % of times I go thru security (in uniform) I am selected for an explosives examination.It would be close to 25% of security transits.
Are staff targeted as a risk ?
Easy targets to minimize passenger checks and delays ?
Or a combo just to tick the requisite boxes ?

I doubt 1 in 4 pax gets swabbed.

[Pinky the pilot]

As the security screener at a major Australian airport told me one day whilst diligently inspecting my pocket umbrella, delaying me at the screening line in full uniform: "I need to check this sir, as it could be used to conceal something which might allow you to force your way into the cockpit"

What was your reaction to that one, DutchRoll?

Think Chimbu Chuckles had a similar incident one time.

Really makes one wonder how some of these security numpties actually remember to continue breathing.:rolleyes:

[apache]

Really makes one wonder how some of these security numpties actually remember to continue breathing.


... Allah reminds them 8 times per day :)

[Octane]

Apache, that's a bit nasty.
And it would be 5 times a day...

[QueenBuzzzzz]

I asked a security guy about the high level of crew screening and he said that they like to screen crew bc there's never a problem, we know the ropes and yes, they can complete their quota easily.

[DutchRoll]

What was your reaction to that one, DutchRoll?
I asked him if he thought I was in fancy dress.

He didn't laugh.

[Octane]

A few years ago I mistakingly had my favourite 9/16-1/2 inch ring spanner in my carry on luggage. Have had it for 30 years. Yes, the goons confiscated it on the grounds it was potentially dangerous. When I pointed out my ballpoint pen was a more useful weapon the boss was summoned because I had an "attitude problem". No amount of haggling worked. They refused to allow me to post it, leave it, give it to a crew member or whatever. The most annoying thing was I just knew one of the buggers would have taken it home...
In Thailand, if they're not happy with something they pack it plastic with your seat number and return it to you at the destination. Thats customer service. To this day I have no idea what damage they anticipated I could do with such a small blunt object....
Buggers...

[SpannerTwister]

Whenever I've got a few minutes to spare I demand that I get "sniffed" in private!
Always seems to amaze them that (1) Someone has actually READ their sign that says you can elect to be screened in private and (2) That someone has actually asked for it to be done in private!!
Last time it was a female "guard" at Tullamarine, and it caused no end of grief :)
She took me to an office next to the screening point and then must of realised she had two policies to follow.......
1) She couldn't sniff me without someone else present and
2) I couldn't be left alone while she went and got a second person
She ended up standing in the doorway yelling for her mate to come and help her, I reckon that I would of used up around 15 minutes of their resources :)
Hey........It's my right to request this, It's on the notice they flash at you!!
If every crew did this they might soon change their attitude!!
ST

[neville_nobody]

Hey........It's my right to request this, It's on the notice they flash at you!! If every crew did this they might soon change their attitude!!

Yep that's what should be happening. Make it as inconvenient as possible for them. ALPA in the US recommends this for pilots if you have to go through a pat down, always demand a private room and witnesses.

[apache]

I thin k you will find, spannertwister, that you may also demand that it be done by two members of the same sex as you.... ergo, if it is female on a power trip then she has to get two guys to pat down a bloke.

Unfortunately, you cannot ask for two females...

[Pinky the pilot]

Unfortunately, you cannot ask for two females...

Hmm, that would disappoint a few Pilots I know.:E

I asked him if he thought I was in fancy dress.

He didn't laugh.

Why doesn't that surprise me?

[NIK320]

I'm surprised so many seem to be waiting in these security lines when on duty..
Just walk on up to the front and slide your stuff into the xray machine.
I have never been questioned for jumping the line.

[Ka.Boom]

Dedicated lines for uniformed crew.
I have always found it difficult to go to the head of a screening Q only to find myself confronted by a woman with three small kids,an arm full of nappies and a scowl who were next in line to be screened.
Always feel discourteous
The problem is also one of training.The screeners are not actually able to discern the difference between operating Crew and passengers.Telling them you are a pilot or a Captain in most cases doesn't even register

[YPJT]

They are NOT valid forms of identification and the government doesn't even hold the particulars on who has one. That is all controlled by a private company or your airline. True, they are not valid forms of ID which seems strange considering what someone has to go through to get the damn things. However you are misinformed about the information and who holds it. All those details are fed into Auscheck within the AGs dept who then request further info from organisations such as Crimtrac and ASIO. So rest assurred Neville, the info is well and truly stored by the government. The only reasons the private issuing bodies have you fill out the form is so they can enter the correct details into the system.

Whilst we're all merrily beating up on the security screeners here's something to ponder. Do you think MSS, Group 4 etc all dream this stuff up themselves and say "hey, this is a good idea, lets do ....."(insert appropriate dislike). Every one of the measures and procedures is prescribed in detail by those responsible for the drafting of the Aviation Transport Security Act and Regs. Security are a. at the forefront of all this mess, and b. easy targets for those who are too lazy to get off their arses and try and get what is wrong changed.:mad: