Mainline to Jetstar

[Wedcue]

Im posting today to ask peoples opinions of the current opportunities to move for 3 years from Qantas to Jetstar (outside of the 2004 MOU so under a LWOP situation.)

Have Qantas pilots been welcomed at Jetstar?
What is an expected salary?
Can a base transfer be expected in the 3 years?
How long is the training and how long are pilots without pay for?

Thanks in advance guys n girls.

(p.s. Not a Jetstar bash, im interested in future opportunities)

[almostthere!]

Have Qantas pilots been welcomed at Jetstar?
-Don't know however I doubt the MOU guys would have. Anecdotal reports indicate they have not been. Direct entry i.e. at the bottom of the seniority list guys/gals who were not covered by MOU would probably have been as long as they don't mention cost of endorsement... I would just suggest not mentioning paid endorsements, someone/anyone 'stealing' someone/anyone else's flying and/or going back to a red tail in 3 years to hopefully maintain flight deck harmonics.
What is an expected salary?
$87,262 for first year.
$98,051 for second year.
(Approx figures based on expected checkout, year on type etc)
Can a base transfer be expected in the 3 years?
How long is a piece of string? They say yes you can go where you want within 12 months but then you have to think realistically don't you? Are they just trying to BS you and hope you don't mind being based somewhere you don't want to be for the full 3 years.
How long is the training and how long are pilots without pay for?
Depends if it is done in Oz or the UK, shorter in Oz but expect to be without pay for 2 months.

[Muff Hunter]

you could expect pay around the 100k-120k depending on how much flying you do chase.

base transfer would be fairly quick I would think with the growth forecast

[ruprecht]

How do the J* pilots feel about some mainline pilots coming over on to the 330?

ruprecht

[unseen]

Some of the MOU pilots probably flew a number of the JQ 330s before any JQ guys did....

[ruprecht]

True, but there's a rumour that some non-MOU pilots are going to the 330 as FO's. Only rumour though.

[KRUSTY 34]

I'm assuming by the wording of you post Wedcue that you are an existing QF pilot.

All I can say is that things must be worse than I thought, if at age 64 you're even considering a move to that other mob! :suspect:

[Wedcue]

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, current QF pilot. Not 64, but getting closer by the day :)

[34R]

Let's be honest, the only reason these guys/girls are taking LWOP and flying for Jet* is because they see it as their only viable option, that is, as opposed to being without a job all together over the next few years. We all know the contributing factors as to why that is the case, but that is for another argument.

I would think that most would be aware that their arrival would be somewhat frowned upon by most of the rank and file, considering endorsements have been funded and positions are only temporary.
It's quite comical actually. Some at Jet* took great delight in 'shafting' their companions at QF, almost bragging about how they have screwed mainline career opportunities (I've heard the bravado first hand at various points around the network), only to ensure that the perceived enemy's demise has facilitated some sort of QF infiltration into their cosy little world. Who would have thunk it?

To the guys that have gone over that I know, and to those that I don't, I wish you all well. It's a shame that it has come to this, but from here on in I think it is time to look after yourself. Nobody is being screwed or bypassed. Opportunities are being taken that have existed or at least been in place for some time. I just hope common sense and professionalism reign, and that future pissing contests are avoided. Not likely.....

[rooboy762002]

Ruprecht.
It's more than just a rumour now. Apparently two SO's (which could mean any number in Jetstar speak) will be going directly on to the 330. In addition, there are two moving directly onto the 330 via an MOU position.
Regarding the SO's, apparently they have extensive RHS time from previous airlines.
If you can believe management (and that's a big if!) after 500 hours they will be CCQ back onto the 320.
However when it comes to Jetstar speak, four positions could mean 40 positions due to an 'operational requirement' :ugh:

[Wedcue]

Is there anyone out there who has a Darwin base?

What do you think of it?
How many overnights do you do?

[theheadmaster]

Wedcue, to answer your first question, I think you would be despised by both Qantas pilots for being part of the problem and by Jetstar pilots as being an opportunist.

[Night Hawk]

I suspect it will be how they react to the JQ guys....act like they know everything etc .....very likely they will receive SOP help only from the FO's!!! :mad:
The free endo hasn't gone down well with most FO's and Capt's but most understand that QF was throwing out a carrot for them. :rolleyes:

The MOU guys who came over before all this should be really pissed now!!!

The 330 gig for QF guys...if under MOU...one can fight that one but there are no slots currently on the big bus. There was a hint that it was to be use as a CCQ point but no details on the length of time they had to be on the plane prior to a move back to the 320. Still this doesn't help with the 320 FO shortage...it could take 8 months form start to finish to get them through that idea of training up crews.:confused:

If LWOP bottom of the list guys getting straight on to the 330....lots of very pissed FO's on that point!!

But mainly the QFf guys are well received.....don't act like a skygod and they'll be fine!!!

[drshmoo]

Make no mistake QF long haul paying for Endo is cheaper than having the pilots on their books. Whatever the cost is to endorse them on a A320 is at least half if not cheaper than paying someone 6 month severance pay. Who cares if you payed or didn't. It's what was available at the time. I would only think a selfish pilot wouldn't think it was nothing but a win that pilots didn't have to fork out for Endo. Big picture people!

[Lookleft]

I would hope that Jetstar pilots will keep it all in some perspective although there are some who think that the MOU was a recent innovation put there to shaft F/O's. What should be kept in mind that it is all part of a grand strategy to get as many pilots as possible on the least pay and conditions. Any QF pilot who is coming across is doing so because of personal circumstances and career aspirations. The same reason that any pilot took a Jetstar job. Who knows in years to come it may be the Jetstar pilots who go to Mainline under the MOU.

To any QF pilot coming over to the new darkside all the best. BTW you know that scene from Return of the Jedi where Luke is getting zapped by the Emperor- thats what the rosters are like.

[Mr Leslie Chow]

Let's just hope that someone gets nuts big enough like Vader and ditches the Emporer into oblivion.

Won't hold my breath :ugh:

[MRGTC]

Who cares what Jetstar guys think. It is obvious that Jetstar have for want of a better word stolen QF airplanes and therefore jobs. There are only one group of pilots who should be feeling guilty and it won't be the QF guys. Race to the bottom led by crapstar and the like! And by the way stop overtransmitting me and everyone else just like SQ! The displayed airmanship is sometimes non existent. But what would one expect.

[Capt_SNAFU]

MRGTC. PULL YOUR :mad: HEAD IN.

We don't need your devisiveness. What good do your comments do? I'm also a QF driver.

[Autobrakes4]

How could the Jet* blokes be bitter anyway? It was Qantas flying gifted to them in the first place, and now our blokes are getting a bit of the action back. They have had a dream run, whilst our blokes have been screwed.

[Artificial Horizon]

Jetstar blokes aren't bitter for the most part. If this is what guys/girls need to do to ensure an income in the future then, welcome aboard. I don't know why the MOU positions would cause any ill feelings, they have been in the seniority list for years specifically for this purpose. Those coming on LWOP are joining the bottom of the list. QF guys being given positions on the 330 etc.... if you have an issue with this then take it up with management NOT the QF guys joining. This kind of in-fighting is specifically how we have ALL found ourselves in this situation, PILOT's have always been crap at sticking together and know we are reaping the 'rewards' of this.

[outside limits]

Well said AH, I totally agree with you.

[Keg]

Probably the saddest thing is that many of the QF guys and gals going to J* have start dates in QF earlier than many current J* crew have in J*. It's a shame we haven't had a group list for decades.

[vigi-one]

Keg

Too true. I understand that there has been a stream of SO's at the bottom of Q Seniority list contacting QLink with possibility of returning. If list was in place some could fill vacant Command positions. But alas there is no such group list.

[Sue Ridgepipe]

I understand that there has been a stream of SO's at the bottom of Q Seniority list contacting QLink with possibility of returning. If list was in place some could fill vacant Command positions. But alas there is no such group list.
Maybe if said list had been in place a few years ago those SOs would have been senior enough to join mainline from QLink as FOs and would not now be in their current predicament. Not that that would ever have been allowed to happen though, as we all know which group of pilots this supposed group list was intended to benefit.

[Trent 972]

Sue, Get it into your nut that many years ago that AIPA (pilot Union) pushed for the regionals to be included onto 'The List'.
The Mainline pilot group, through union subscriptions, funded the case for inclusion.
IT WAS QANTAS MANAGEMENT WHO WON THE CASE AND PREVENTED THE INCLUSION OF THE REGIONAL PILOTS.

[waren9]

MRGTC

The displayed airmanship is sometimes non existent

The Q badge on your fellas hats doesnt seem to prevent such occassions either, but I'm not so ignorant as to tar you all with the same brush.

[Toruk Macto]

Trent , it's my understanding you are wrong.

[ejectx3]

Oh for Christ's sake people. The QF guys don't have to feel 'lucky' to have the opportunity to go to JQ! The careers of these guys has been destroyed by the company and they have seen pilots join 'the group' years after them and gain commands years ahead of them through no fault of their own. Neither is it the fault of the JQ guys. It's the system set up by a bunch of bastards.

The QF guys who have been shafted should walk proudly into any JQ job and feel that is more than fine given the years they have waited in s/o positions.

It's the freakin twighlight zone where JQ pilots feel 'bitter' at QF guys coming over. GET REAL!

[VH-JJW]

Probably the saddest thing is that many of the QF guys and gals going to J* have start dates in QF earlier than many current J* crew have in J*. It's a shame we haven't had a group list for decades

Welcome to the real world, luck of the draw.

No different really to the ex AN /CX /SQ pilots sitting next to you with more Jet time.

Thats the system.

[Zapatas Blood]

ejectx3

JQ and QF are different AOC's and different business's.

QF has NO OBLIGATION to offer QF pilots jobs in JQ.

In the real world, you could be shown the door while JQ recruits youngsters off the street. This is common in that big place called "the rest of the world".

You should consider yourselves very fortunate.

[golfjet744]

What does an AOC have to do with industrial law?

[Capt Kremin]

I also suggest you read the FWA laws. Qantas cannot make pilots redundant in one part of the business whilst recruiting in another.

That's the real world.

[Jetsbest]

... It's cheaper for QF to offer transfers, even with the endorsement paid, than to retrench and pay redundancies. There is nothing magnanimous about what's going on and no one should feel "lucky"; consider the options you have and make a decision that is 'workable' for you in the circumstances.

To the JQ pilots, surely any QF transfers are either:
- under the MOU, which was known-about,
or if a non-MOU transfer into any JQ position then
- it's just "more of the same" from the management who so obviously respect your flexibilities. :rolleyes:

It seems that there's plenty of bad-tasting medicine to go around. :hmm:

[toolish]

Are you guys for real?
you will be accepted we know who the enemy is and it is not you.
I just wish you guys had realised that for the last 7 years.

[jibba_jabba]

Ah that explains why my 330 slot has dried up? QF blokes moving over. Oh well, Hurry up and wait!

Any news on when Jetstar will hire for any bases at the moment? Oz bases (320) or Singa bases?

[amos2]

Welcome all to 21st century aviation!

AKA everyman for himself!

AKA the Scab Pilots fraternity!

You chose your path in 89' and you are now reaping the benefits!

Phew! Wot' a bunch of turkeys!!

I feel sorry for you pathetic bunch of losers!

[mppgf]

What path would that be Amos ? Neither Jetstar nor Impulse were involved or even around (in any great capacity) in that year.
So who exactly are you on about ?
:confused:

[brown_hornet]

I find it repulsive that we have to discuss how well these QF pilots are going to be received, anything other than welcomed is offensive. It potentially could be take the opportunity and go to Jetstar, or join the que for the dole. If roles were reversed, I'd be welcoming guys and be happy that they were able to stay in aviation and didn't have to lose sleep at night thinking about what they were going to do for the rest of their career. I'm starting to think I must be too nice to be a pilot:yuk: No wonder the majority of my friends are outside aviation, fuc* me.

[Capt Kremin]

Unfortunately Mr Amos is one of a small minority of pilots who, after suffering career detours like '89 and the various airline collapses we have seen over the years, cannot wait to see another group of pilots who up until now haven't suffered the same fate, finally "get theirs".

When that group of pilots belong to QF, so much the better.

It is a unappealing human trait, being exhibited by an apparently very unappealing human.

Amos, if Qf pilots do "get theirs", I hope it makes you feel better.

[Rashid Bacon]

Amos2 -

I wouldn't get too pious if I was you. There were some of your "group" with the same "every man for himself" mentality who had no problem marching over the top of other pilot's careers in other airlines and GA operators. I was one of those who suffered this indignity.

Personally, I hope all the QF pilots whose jobs are at "risk", can transfer to Jetstar under LWOP or whatever other agreements exist in your part of the world.:ok:

[Toruk Macto]

The Q regionals have over the years asked AIPA to support a formal intergration system which never recieved much support . It was pointed out that it provided a chance of keeping Q mainline pilots employed if mainline was to contract. When Sothern was wound up they were initially told that no interviews could be arranged with any other group airline as they all operated under different AOC's. Some were given secondment (12 months job search allowance ) , while some were transfered to another turbo prop outfit. If your a mainline pilot, at the bottom of the list, then this MOU into jetstar is not a bad option, take the endorsment then have a look at your options .

[OneDotLow]

Amos2 said :

You chose your path in 89' and you are now reaping the benefits!

Phew! Wot' a bunch of turkeys!!

I feel sorry for you pathetic bunch of losers!

As I have said previously :

A few facts :
I sit between one third and halfway up the seniority list at Qantas.
I am an F/O on the B767.
I was not a cadet.
I am not overly young for my position.

To put it in perspective :
I was in year 3 at primary school finger painting, learning how to spell and construct sentences during "that year".

Time to move on from '89 perhaps?

[teresa green]

Lets have some facts here. When JQ started up there was a lot of animosity, when JQ pilots were up the track after going OS, they were seldom invited to join QF pilots for a drink or a meal, in fact both groups kept to themselves. Some Skygods took it upon themselves to be quite derogatory, and their favorite theme was "so you failed QF entry"? This had a effect on my family personally when my son (JQ) met his sister (QF) at the crew bar in NRT. A couple of Skygods took it upon themselves to give my young bloke a bagging, whilst he is more than able to defend himself, they did not take into account his sibling who flew right into them as only a female can do, our "hero's" quickly left as they realized they had taken on more than they could chew. Thankfully that has now changed, but the older JQ pilots have not forgotten. You all need each other, its the only chance you have against management, the remarks of some show things still need to change.

[Keg]

It's a shame that occurred teresa. Perhaps it was a response to being told that the Impulse/ Jetstar Pilot Council had rejected AIPA overtures when we bought Impulse.

Some other 'facts' from a bit earlier than your example- these from a time before J* started operating heavy metal overseas and were flying 717s in QantasLink uniforms. Avoiding looking you in the eye or looking away once eye contact was made when in close proximity in the terminal. Being ignored when you subsequently said 'hello'. Getting grunts in response to questions about their day when standing beside them getting coffee.

It was an unpleasant time for crews on both side of the fence. I'll note that since that time J* has probably tripled (or more) in size and QF has added another 400-500 pilots and so for many crew in both airlines they have no frame of reference to this sort of stuff.

Perhaps we should just focus on what unites us rather than what divides us.

[Take five]

Please Get Real.

It's Not the People.

IT'S THE PRODUCT!!!:ugh:

[Inbound On Descent]

Keg said:

Perhaps we should just focus on what unites us rather than what divides us.

....bugger me, there's an idea.......well said that man.

:ok: Inbound.

[Zapatas Blood]

“I suggest you read the letter signed by Alan Joyce and Kevin Brown to AIPA before you make yourself look stupid again Zapatas.”

I have no doubt that there is agreement between the two. But no one knows how this will unfold until it’s tested. Lets wait and see.

“Qantas cannot make pilots redundant in one part of the business whilst recruiting in another.”

You really sure about that. As above, lets wait and see.

Very little we do in aus airline flying is real world, especially when it comes to labor. Aus is full of industrial agreements and handshakes and honoring dumbass union demands, but that doesn’t make it normal. It certainly doesn’t make it competitive.

The real world reality is gunna hurt when it arrives with a vengeance. Again, consider yourselves fortunate that QF doesn’t show you the door when they downsize.