Anybody converted to JAA (ATPL)?

[adouglas]

Now that the rules have changed on the conversion to JAA licences - has anybody converted their non-JAA licence to JAA? I am looking at doing the ATPL in Aus./S.A. and then convert - anybody know how much/long it would take?
The CAA site is full of the usual vague stuff! :confused:

[redsnail]

With a CPL/IR with ATPL subjects done in Oz and then converting it to a JAA one it is very expensive. You would have to do ALL ATPL subjects again plus the IR ( less 5 hours or so).
To get any "exemptions" you must have a full ATPL with at least 500 hours multi crew experience. You still must do the 14 exams!
It's a pity as the flying is great in Oz....

[adouglas]

Thanks for that Redsnail - from what I can work out I would have to do 650 hours plus exams. I have tried to find out any flying schools that would provide details of the conversion length/cost, but with no success.
Would an airline take me on and provide the conversion training - or am I up in the clouds with that idea!!??

[redsnail]

For the theory you need to allow for at least 6 months. Add on whatever for the flying. At least 3 months for the IR etc.
Validations are around but very hard to get. You must have skills/hours that a particular airline wants and they sponsor you for the validation. Again, very hard to get. If you had the minimum hours I doubt any airline will pay for that conversion.
in other words, going overseas (outside Europe) isn't a cheap option any more.

[Kato747]

Missionary....

I can echo/confirm redsnail's comments. No Airline will sponsor unless they're pretty far up your chuff. The Campaign Against Aviators still aren't much help either way. Count on lots of time and 'beer-vouchers' for any conversion.

Did the conversion from FAA/CAA/JAA almost two years ago with all the attendant pain.

Good luck to you :cool:

[adouglas]

Guys/Gals* (* delete as appropriate),
Thanks for that. I guess the chocks will be staying in place till I can raise some more dosh.
ho,hum!!
:(

[Right Seat]

Gday Reddo,
Hows your ATPL studies going?
Have you got a job lined up after the ATPL?
Cheers :)

[hvassk]

As I am also one of those pilots seeking to convert my liscense to JAA some more info would be appreciated. I have an FAA ATP with the 500 hours in a multi-crew capacity. Can anybody out there enlighted me with the conversion process? Or, does anybody know of any airlines willing to accept an application from me and assist with the conversion?

[xbxex]

Hey Guys,
I've been trying to find out about this for a while some of you have helped with information. I too have the 500 hrs plus multi crew capacity and it seems that in order to take advantage of this (i.e.an exemption in the flying element)you have to do the ATPL flight skill test in the very type that you have the 500 multi crew hours on. In my case it'd be a SAAB 340 B, I don't think that it's going to be easy to get a SAAB for the test over in England, or even the level "D" sim for the SAAB.
Does anyone know an alternative by which the flight test could be done in a light twin, even if that means more training?
This of course, is after passing the 14 written subjects, with the Class 1 medical.

As for airline sponsorship, I haven't heard of anyone that has got one.

[julio]

Redsnail

Thanks for you input. I've got 2200 hours B200, Military Flying and ATPL in Australia. Could you or anyone infact point me in the right direction for a JAA with any exemptions. Indeed is this marketable? :)

[redsnail]

Julio,
Tough call mate. The UK Mil can get exemptions but I think any one outside Europe is stuffed. (My words, not theirs). If you can prove that the B200 flying was done two crew according to national law etc, you can get an exemption on the 500 hours multi pilot stuff. (ie two crew)
If you can convince an employer to get you a validiation then you have 12 months to do the exams. (that also goes for the Saab endorsed poster).
I am either going to see if I can talk my way round that problem of the ATP skills test, re jobs/employers. The test must be done in a multi crew a/c with a CAA approved examiner. Failing that, I think I will find the cheapest multi crew type to get checked out in. I don't really want to do a full IR again. That's horrendously expensive.

[rolling circle]

Herluf - there is no conversion process. You will have to pass a JAA Class 1 medical, all 14 theoretical knowledge examinations and the ATPL Skill Test on a multi-pilot aeroplane as defined in AMC FCL 1.215. If you do not already have the particular multi-pilot type rating on your non-JAA licence, you will have to complete an approved type rating course before completing the Skill Test.

Babisuri - You cannot take the ATPL Skill Test on a light twin. It must be a multi-pilot type as defined in AMC FCL 1.215. It does not, however, have to be the same type as that on which you built the 500hrs multi-crew time.

Julio - you will have to convince the CAA that your BE200 time was really multi-crew in order to use the time for the 500hr requirement. There are no exemptions and the BE200 is not a multi-crew aeroplane as defined in AMC FCL 1.215. You will, therefore, have to complete an approved type rating course on a multi-crew aeroplane before taking the ATPL Skill Test, after passing the JAA Class 1 medical and the 14 theoretical knowledge examinations.

The chances of a validation, unless you already have the type rating that the sponsoring airline wants, are vanishingly small.

The full list of multi-crew aeroplanes as defined by AMC FCL 1.215 is as follows:

Aerospatiale/Sud Aviation - SN601 Corvette; SE 210/10B3/11/12

Aerospatiale/BAC - Concorde

Aerospatiale/Nord Aviation - Nordatlas 2501; C160 P Transall; 260A/262 A-B-C Nord

Aero Spaceline - Super Guppy

Airbus - A300; A300FFCC; A310; A319/320/321; A330; A340; A300-600ST Beluga

ATR - ATR 42/72

Mitsubishi/Beech/Raytheon - Beech 400/MU300

Boeing - B707/720; B717; B727; B737; B747 ;B757/767; B777

British Aerospace/AVRO - ATP Jetstream 61; AVRO RJ/BAe146; BAC 1-11

Hawker Siddley/BAe/Raytheon - HS125; HS748

Hawker Siddley/BAe - Jetstream 31/32

BAe/AVRO - Jetstream 41

Canadair - CL415; CL600/601; CL600 B19; CL600 2B16

CASA - C212/CN235

Cessna - C500/550/560; C650; C750

Consolidated Vultee Aircraft - CV240/340/440; CV580

Dassault - Falcon 10/100; Falcon 20/200; Falcon 50/900/900EX; Falcon 2000

De Havilland Canada - DHC7; DHC8; DHC8-400

Dornier - DO328-100; DO329-300

McDonnel-Douglas/Boeing - A-26B; DC3; DC4; DC6; DC7DC8; DC9-80/MD88/MD90; DC10; MD11

Embraer - EMB120; EMB135; EMB145

Fokker/Fairchild - F27; F28; F50; F70/100

Grumman Gulfstream - Gulfstream I; Gulfstream II/III; Gulfstream IV; Gulfstream V

Handley Page - Herald

Israeli Aircraft Industries - IAI-1121 Jetcommander/-1123 Commodore Jet/-1124 Westwind; IAI-1126 Astra

Junkers - JU52

Lockheed - L188 Electra; L382 G (C130) Hercules; L1011; L1329 Jetstar

Learjet - Learjet 20/30; Learjet 45;
Learjet 55; Learjet 60

Leteckee - Let L410

MBB - HFB320l; VFW-614

PT Industry - IPTN CN 235-110

Rockwell International - NA-265 Series

Saab - SF340; SAAB 2000

Short Brothers - SD 3-30/60; SC5 Belfast

Vickers-Armstrong - Vanguard; Viscount

[xbxex]

rolling circle- Thanks for the help! But I'm a bit wooried now...

I guess the question is:
What's more expensive, to do the whole IR again, or to get checked out in one of these aircraft?

[Manflex55]

Well "the whole IR again" in a small twin with a "normal" school (ie not OATS or others) will cost U an average of £9,000. For the same amount, as an example (they're the cheapest jets around), U can have 9 hours in the C500, C550 or C560 mentionned above.

MF

[rolling circle]

Unfortunately, according to CAP 682, the minimum training required for a 'small turbojet' is 10-15 days theoretical knowledge, 16 hours procedures and systems and 10 hours flight training. Not to mention the aircraft hire and test fees for the Licensing Skill Test and ATPL Skill Test and the CAA's pound of flesh for the issue of the type rating.

I think the repeat IR course may turn out to be the cheaper option even, God forbid, at OAT's obscenely inflated prices.

[VSQUARED]

Julio, email me. I am ex oz army moved here last year. I may be able to help you out. However it is along, expensive and bloody painfull experience.

[kickstart]

I have been advised by a couple of schools "subject to your hours" you may not have to do the whole IR. All you have to do is pass the flight test with a CAA examiner, of course you need to be up to standard and the training to get you there would be as required. The aircraft could then be say a Baron, or Duchess, for example.
You already need to have an ATPL then pass the JAR examinations, sit a GFT flight test with a CAA examiner and then do the IR as stated above. How much will this cost??????
A light twin would go for about 500 pound per hour?. I am not quite sure, some of the UK pilots may be able to help there. You would need about 1 hour for the GFT and lets say up to 5 or 10 hours for the IR.
Good Luck.

[rolling circle]

kickstart - You have been seriously misinformed and it would be interesting to know which schools are so incompetent/dishonest to have done this, perhaps you could name them.

Unless you are taking the ATPL-ATPL route (which involves the ATPL Skill Test on a multi-pilot aeroplane), you will have to complete an approved course of training for the Instrument Rating. Assuming that you have an ICAO compliant professional licence, the approved course is 50 hours + Skill Test - no exceptions.

[Mindthegap]

Only had to take JAR(FCL) and JAR(OPS) written exams and got JAR CPL(A)/IR, and have only a frozen ATPL....
Have 900+ on multipilot/multieng.and 900+ singlepilot(do228)/multieng. But all my ratings have disappeared. Only one rating which I am " current on " gets to stay in the licence.

[xbxex]

Could somebody name some of the schools that have more reasonable prices for the IR?
Thanks.

[kuzzin]

Hoesit!!
Check out JAR-FCL 1.015 : Acceptance of Licences, Ratings, Authorisations etc...
Check out the Apendix 1 to said FAR-FCL 1.015
its all there unless its changed and Im lost...? :(

[Rotorbike]

www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/srg_fcl_policyupdate.pdf (http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/srg_fcl_policyupdate.pdf) is the latest CAA/JAA licence conversion document.

:eek: :eek: