'160 to 4'

[FlyingSportsman]

Flying from EGKR I often listen to Gatwick Traffic just out of curiosity. I often hear 170 knots to 5 DME. However sometimes when i listen i hear 160 knots to 4 DME. At Heathrow, i assume this to be standard practice, as I hear it most of the time.
I was wondering the reasons behind it? Only thing i can think of is RWY selection or Traffic Conditions, amongst a few others i wont reveal to keep my reputation as a pilot intact :ok:

FS

[octavian]

Check your PMs,

Kind regards

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Flying Sportsman... speed control on final approach is for traffic spacing to achieve the highest possible landing rate. Under certain conditions, 2.5nm spacing can be employed and it is imperative that crews fly the speeds instructed or that spacing can be quickly eroded to almost guarantee a go-around. I expect Octavian has provided more info.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Yeah.... I'll probably get a black mark for divulging trade secrets!!!

[Vortex Issues]

Flying from EGKR I often listen to Gatwick Traffic just out of curiosity. I often hear 170 knots to 5 DME. However sometimes when i listen i hear 160 knots to 4 DME.

You should mainly here 160 to 4 at Gatwick. Occasionally 170 to 5 is given mainly to the BA 737's as it's their approach speed preferred speed.

The reasons for it


Tower are able to judge the time between the inbounds better when they are all at a standard speed so as to get a departure away
maintains the gap between inbounds, usually 3 miles when no departure is needed or 5/6 when there's a departure to go
speed for inbound aircraft is only restricted to 4 miles as each aircraft and each airline has different landing and final approach speeds

PM me if you have any further questions

[octavian]

Yahoo, and others,

Sorry if you got the impression that there were secrets. Not so sir. I just felt that my reply was rather lengthy and was better suited to a PM.

Thankfully, Vortex Issues summarised my long winded explanation by his excellent post.

If you really want the unexpurgated version I will try and move it into this thread. After all, why use three brief sentences when 25 will do.

Kind regards

[Sir Herbert Gussett]

Go for it, octavian! :ok:

[veloo maniam]

I am curious though...for R32L/R (WMKK) pilots are able to
follow the STAR speeds i.e 160 up to 4NM.
However when the opposite Rwy is used i.e 14L,
speed drops to 125-135 at 6NM. This seem to be the
norm with most A320s/B738 etc. Could it be due to the
winds between 2500-1500ft? Surface winds read 150/03kts.
Need help here. Replies appreciated. Already had 2 Go-arounds
last nite.

[haughtney1]

170 to 5 is a lot easier to achieve in a 77W thats close to MLW and it's what I ask for when going into EGKK or LL so it's not just a BA thing.
As ever the superb guys and girls there make it all easy.

[Vortex Issues]

As ever the superb guys and girls there make it all easy

All part of the service :}

Generally we can accept any final approach speed (<200kts) as long as you ask in good time i.e. before base leg, we'll adjust the gap in front/behind you to compensate.

[MorfArsenal]

Couldn't agree more.

I consider it VERY bad airmanship not to comply with an assigned speed restriction. Especially when on base or established on the ILS. It usually creates a lot of extra work for the ATCO and often results in irregular spacing for the next couple of ACs, if not a go-around for the AC behind the culprit. :ugh:

You wouldn't all of a sudden turn off the instructed heading because you feel like it, would you? You wouldn't all of a sudden climb 1000' just because you feel like it, would you? :mad:
I hope not. I would hope that you state your request and I can assure you that we always do our utmost to accommodate you.

As Vortex Issues correctly says. As long as you let us know, preferably before the base leg, almost anything is possible. Both with regards to speed and length of the line-up.

Bottom line: Speak up, let us know what you prefer or if an instruction doesn't suit you and let's work together :ok: