JAA PPL in USA - is it really cheaper?

[dodos9]

Hello everyone!

I know that there is a lot of similar topics, but I haven't found any that would answer my question: Is it actually cheaper to do the JAA PPL in USA? If so, then what is the overall cost of the whole idea (including return flight ticket price to USA, headset+other equipment etc.)?

A JAA PPL in USA, something I haven't really considered because the price + other expenses seemed to be equal to what I would have to pay doing it here - in the UK.

However, yesterday, I have read a very long article on pprune.org about JAA PPL in USA and I decided to re-consider it. So, today I have done some research and I have found that there are 6 JAA certified schools in USA (actually one is a helicopter school; therefore 5); one in CA and the rest in FL. I have looked at the cost stated at their websites, some of them include taxes, VISA fees etc., while others don't . Anyway, the prices are roughly about 9000USD which works out to be around 5500GBP, which when added to about 500GBP for the return flight EGCC-KMCO or EGLL-KSAN, and another 1000GBP for other expenses (JAA medical, PPL books, headset, plotting equipment, VISA fees etc.), overall adds up to 7000GBP. 7000GBP, is what I would expect to pay here in UK (correct me if I am wrong). Therefore, since it works out to be roughly the same, why do quite a lot of people go to USA to do their JAA PPLs? One reason that would make me want to still go there, if the overall cost would work out to be actually the same, is the fact that you go there and after 3 weeks, you comeback with your PPL; unlike in UK due to weather and other limiting factors (time, for example). So, are my calculations right? Or am being naive, thinking that it is so cheap? Or maybe so naive thinking it is so expensive?

I would like to hear from a person who could either confirm or correct my calculations about how much it costs to do the PPL here in the UK (I suppose the majority obtained their PPLs in UK), and also from a person who has done their JAA PPL in USA. Hopefully, after all I will be able to answer my question: Is it actually cheaper to do the JAA PPL in USA?

Thanks in advance

[Blue Bandit]

As far as costings go, it is probably comparable pricing in doing your ppl in the USA and UK. The advantage of doing a ppl in USA is continuity of training and the ability to do an intensive course in 3 weeks ue to the better climate. This is the route I am seriously considering taking.

Hope this helps.

[McGoonagall]

No personal experience Dominik but I can tell you what my friend did last winter. His was not so much cost driven but time driven. He started the TSA process last October and while waiting for the clearances he got 8 hours in on a PA-28 and more importantly he took and passed all the exams and radio practical. He flew to Florida in February and he had a 28 day window to complete. He did it in 25 days and 48 hrs.

Talking to him afterwards we tried to compare the cost between USA/UK. His course in Florida included accom, transport etc.. He negotiated a discount for the exams passed but the extra three hours and a partial re-test brought it up to the original cost and a little bit more. Also, after returning to the UK he had another 4 hours with an instructor to get the feel of UK flying again.

I cant remember the exact figures but all in all after the expenses, air fares, transfers, TSA and visa fees and bits and pieces it worked out about £280 cheaper in the USA. However, he had four weeks in the States with almost unbroken weather, continuity of training and having the exams under his belt could take a day a week off and do a bit of sightseeing.

You pays your money........

Good luck.

[dodos9]

Thank you very much for your quick reply Blue Bandit!

You are absolutely right by saying that it is great to do it in 3 weeks. Basically, you go there for not even a month and you have your PPL! That really is great!

However, I would also like to hear from someone who has actually been there already and knows ALL the costs.

Anyway, thank you very much for your reply and I am waiting for more from others ;)

[dodos9]

Thanks for your reply too McGoonagall!

Overall, I really like this sentence: '...all in all after the expenses, air fares, transfers, TSA and visa fees and bits and pieces it worked out about £280 cheaper in the USA.' However, if you could specify what was the price in the UK that you know was about £280 more expensive, it'd be great (or simpler, how much he paid in USA?; I know you said you don't remember the exact figures though)

Thanks and waiting for more

[McGoonagall]

As I said I cant remember the figures but the benchmark was living at home and doing an intensive PPL some 30 miles away in winter in England, the expenses then would be travel and most probably a time penalty due to weather. The USA calculation was everything expended from the first hour in England, exams, TSA, cost of US course, flights, expenses over there and flying on return. It was not scientific or audited.

However, the main point is this. While waiting for TSA clearance and tossing about with fingerprints (do this in advance) and visiting the US embassy, get the ground school done and at least cover the basics up to and just before the circuit in the same type of aeroplane you will be training on. He told me it was invaluable as he was the student going out for a meal or resting while others had their heads stuck in books and were sitting in classrooms instead of flying or having quality briefs/de-briefs.

Not a lot in it when you add it all up but the US route gives you a bit of a holiday and experience in another country but with all the attendant hassle of the visa requirements.

[dodos9]

@McGoonagall
Thanks for the advice about the exams and self-study. As you said it is good doing something while something else is being processed (e.g. self-study while awaiting for VISA). I am a very organised person, and that's why I would like to know all those things, so that I could plan ahead what to do when.

@SoCal App
Thanks for your reply!
Hi! About the 3 weeks thing, I know that it may take longer, and that's why when I was planning to go to USA, I was thinking of staying there for 4 weeks (I used 3 weeks as what pretty much every JAA authorised school in USA promotes). And about getting used to the UK-way of flying, personally, I don't think it'd be a problem, because I am going to fly (build hours for CPL) in the UK from time to time anyway, therefore learning the differences etc. won't be a problem really.

[McGoonagall]

Ah, so you have never personally actually had to "toss about with Fingerprints" then..

Yep, had to get a H-3 visa some years back to allow me to be trained by General Motors on a certain type of locomotive so I could train others over here. Not an unpleasant process, just time consuming.

[dodos9]

That's a must to finish all the exams before going to USA, and this is what I am going to do. And about the choosing the flying school, my friend has comeback a couple of days ago from American Aviation Academy in San Diego, CA, and I will talk to him and see what he says about them as soon as he has some free time. (You may ask: 'Why could you not ask him about the cost of doing JAA PPL in USA?', and the answer is because he's not from UK, and also how do I know whether he hasn't over-payed.)

[dodos9]

To be honest, I am more into California myself anyway. American Avaition Academy at Gillespie Field near San Diego, is the school my friend trained at. And not ahving a chance to talk to him directly yet, I have heard that he is very happy with the choice. And the flight EGLL-KSAN, actually works out to be the same cost as EGCC-KMCO, despite further distance.

I hope this thread doesn't die at this point. Keep going ;)

Thanks

[WILCO.XMG]

Somehow, if you can, take into account landing and touch and go charges. These aren't applied in the US but can cost anywhere from £5-£20 in the UK/Ireland.

Also some US flying schools require a "fuel surcharge" payment which is not advertised on their website.

[thing]

I've just got my PPL here in UK and it took me about 3 months and just over £6350, but that includes absolutely everything, I even factored in car fuel to the airfield. I bought my headset and GPS after I passed so I'm not counting that. By the way I've heard good stuff about American Aviation in San Diego, my friend's son did his training there and he's flying for Delta now.

[xj8driver]

Way back in January 2007 I went to Florida to do my PPL. I allocated myself 9 weeks, for 2 reasons - I wanted to take my time and enjoy the experience, and to get in some sightseeing on the ground. With gliding experience behind me I did the course in minimum hours (in a C152), plus the exams, and bought another 25 (solo) hours for good measure.

Including return flights, headset, bag, and other sundry items (all cheaper in the US), and spending money, I spent around £8000 in total. I came away with 70 hours in my logbook and a night qualification.

Would I recommend it? Definitely. But that's a personal view of course..

[dodos9]

@WILCO.XMG Hi and thanks for a reply. About the touch and goes, yeah I have read that you don't pay touch and go fees in USA, so it is certainly another additional cost to consider if doing PPL in UK. Thanks for that.

@thing Thank you very much, this is exactly what I was looking for. All the costs added and the total amount of money spent. I will conatct you for more info via PM later on if you don't mind.

@xj8driver Again, exactly what I was looking for. I will contact you via PM as well if you don't mind. Thanks

[Blue Bandit]

To throw another slant at things...has anybody done thier PPL training in Australia?? Costings seem more expensive in Oz compared to other countries. Also, if granted the Aussie PPL is a CASA ICAO PPL licence. Has anybody had experience in doing this CASA PPL and if so, what is the exam format.

Thanks.

[IO540]

I would be suprised if a JAA PPL was much cheaper in the USA.

I last flew in the USA in 2006 and already fuel there was way up on a few years before, and it has continued.

There is still a margin on the cost of self fly hire but it won't be the 3x margin which used to be say 10 years ago, which was great for hour builders who just wanted to stuff 1000hrs in their logbooks by flying up and down in a C150.

The real saving will be from the somewhat better weather in Florida compared to the UK, the continuous flying (as opposed to fitting lessons in between life's committments which is what people do here), and the better organised schools which keep their planes flying as much as they can.

My guess is a 25% saving on average.

If I was doing a JAA PPL in the USA I would use the school in southern California, where the weather will be much better than in Florida.

The saving on the FAA IR done in the USA versus the JAA IR done over here is massive - about a factor of 4. But that is for largely different reasons.

[Fuji Abound]

Based on recent experience it is cheaper but not overall.

In other words while the hirer rates are less and the availability of high performance twins and singles better for training you need to consider the complete package, including of course the cost of getting and staying there. Moreover the difference in cost of typical training aircraft is more marginal.

In my opinion go if you want a holiday, or some better weather, so the cost of the holiday is incidental, but dont bother if it is purely to save money.

The flying is great, the infra structure still puts us and the rest of Europe to shame but you will also find that as much that can be different is, so flying in the UK will seem different at least for the first few trips even if the laws of physics havent changed much this side of the pump - well except between gallons (imperial and US, even if we both like to call them simply gallons!).

[WILCO.XMG]

What will happen to American JAA schools when EASA take over?

Does anybody know?

[IO540]

Apparently they will carry on.

[QFF]

My, how times have changed. I remember barely 8 yrs ago they were advertising £2500 PPL packages inc accommodation at certain establishments in Florida...

I am amazed that it's just as cheap (or expensive) to do your PPL in the UK now :o

[dodos9]

Thanks for all the replies! This thread gave me some good info about the subject. Some people I will contact via PM, so that hopefully I can get more specific info if there's a need.

Once again, thanks.

Kind Regards

[englishal]

I did mine in the USA in 2000 and it was definitely cheaper then. I paid $5,500 for the course plus about $1500 for the hotel / flights (which included a minibus which would take you anywhere in Long Beach, so no hire car reqd.).

Took 5 weeks, due to a spell of "June Gloom" delaying my test. Came back with 63 hrs in the logbook for that price.

But there are two distinct advantages with the USA...1) You can bang it out in a month if you want (allow an extra week though)....2) If you want a stand alone US license then take the FAA test straight away afterwards, then you have JAA and FAA PPL.

Plus it made me comfortable flying in the USA and now we go back for flying holidays quite often.

It took me an hours checkout at Bournemouth Flying Club on my return to be allowed to rent their aeroplanes and then a few flights on my own fumbling my way through "MATZ transits" etc., but if you know the theory it is easy flying in the UK compared to the USA.

[suraci]

It is very difficult to compare apples with apples on this one.

OK, you have accommodation and food costs with US based training, but do you eat free in the UK? Remember that Wal*Mart is cheaper than Asda!

What are your travel costs to/from the UK airfield? US schools usually have accommodation near the school.

A PPL course typically has about 100 landings/touch'n'gos which are usually free in the US but usually £5 - £15 each in the UK

Will the UK club require a membership fee (£100 - £200 common) and/or payment for a security pass?

How much will the school (UK or US) charge for each ground school exam? For the radio practical? The examiner's fee for the skill test?

What will be the total cost of Visa, SEVIS, TSA, fingerprints, travel costs to US embassy/consulate?

The OP included in his budget 1000GBP for JAA medical, headset, textbooks etc. These will all be required if training in the UK, but will be cheaper if obtained in the US (yes, a JAA Class2 in the US can cost less than many UK AMEs charge).

And there's PROB90 lots more that I cant think of! And of course after you get your costings down to the last penny and cent, the exchange rate will change.

[172driver]

I'll probably get shot down in flames for this, but here goes:

You'll learn a lot more in the US. You'll learn to fly 'in the system', interact with ATC, fly in busy airspace operate in and out of 'real' airports. Especially if training in CA, you'll also have a very varied topography (ocean to 10.000ft+ mountains) with the concomitant weather and other related issues. In short - it will make you a more rounded, confident pilot.

I concur with Englishal and would also go for both the JAA and FAA licenses. Other than the joy of flying in the US, there's one BIG advantage to having the FAA ticket that often gets overlooked - it's a lot easier and cheaper to validate in a third (i.e. non-JAA/FAA) country.

Good luck :ok:

[IO540]

172driver above is bang on.

Americans pilots are taught to fly, straight out of the box. It's not just a piece of paper, with enough knowledge to get to Bembridge, which is what you tend to get over here.

BTW, a cheaper Class 2 in the USA ought to be irrelevant because you need to get risky stuff like that sorted well before you go there.