No Engine Taxi

[mummbles]

So I want to hear from everybody on where there thoughts and feeling are in respect to the future of taxiing aircraft. Electric taxi is coming into the market on a number of airlines and on both boeing and airbus and soon. Retraining, new habits and new flows.....what do you think?

[Sygyzy]

Not a snowball's chance in hell. There are pages and pages of this on another thread.

Weight of electric motors if you go down that route. Cost of extra tugs/drivers/ training/taxiways/beefing up the nosegear if you go down that route.

Do some research (search button), stop clogging up the forum with junk and let's discuss something meaningful that's not straight out of Harry P .

[mummbles]

S,

Not only have I done my research but it is my full time career! You obviously do not have much current knowledge of whats is going on in the industry and where developments have been made. I appreciate your response but it was unwarranted and disrespectful. There is no extra personnel or equipment nor any upgrades to taxi ways. These systems will be on aircraft in the next 2 years. Training for such systems can be built into the recurrent training cycle.

[Sygyzy]

Not disrespectful at all. Go and have a read of this-search for: Tugs versus aircraft engines: a ground handling question.

An electric motor might just work on a turbo prop, but where's the fuel saving there. If a bloody great tug can't manage a fully laden 777/747/380/340/330 (and can just cope with an unladen one) you will have to have a pretty big electric motor to do what the tug can't. And how will you power the motor-don't tell me-by running the engines to provide generated power. Wow, I wish I'd thought of that. If the electric motor reduces the payload by one seat due to it's weight (and I suspect it will be rather heavier than that) then the beancounters will have none of it in the first place. Bear in mind that you will have to carry this piece of equipment everywhere, attached somehow to the gear, and retract with it. Electric motors are essentially copper windings and heavy. Concorde didn't even have an APU due to weight problems and she guzzled gas like no other.

If you travel on the London Underground district line you can go to Dagenham East, which is where you should get off. That's two stops past Barking (mad).

No disrespect intended of course...just my thoughts....which you invited.

[Foniac]

"The "green" taxiing system will be offered as an option on the Airbus A320neo, a version of the Airbus A320 with more fuel-efficient engines that Airbus plans to bring to market in 2015. Fuel is a major portion of an airline's operating costs, and with the price of fuel on the rise carriers are struggling to reduce consumption wherever possible.

The system consists of electric motors inside the wheels of an aircraft's main landing gear that will be powered by the aircraft's auxiliary power unit while taxiing, Safran Chairman and Chief Executive Jean-Paul Hertemann said. As the planes will be able to move around autonomously, it will eliminate the need for airport tugs to maneuver planes. The system will allow planes to move backwards as well as forwards, for example, when leaving their boarding gate."

Looks to me like Honeywell are already well on the way to having it developed...

[Sygyzy]

I stand corrected then Kieran, but I should think it will be a limited market for the smaller jets to start with. I watch this space.

[Foniac]

I imagine this'd be the case. I can't see them moving a fully loaded 747 like you said with wheel motors... but hey, I stand to be corrected. :)

[mummbles]

The market for these aircraft is substantially larger than most anticipate. Airbus currently has orders for over 600 new A320 Neos and the electri taxi systems will be coming to market for narrow body aircraft both new and retrofit. Safran Honeywell are making a model for the main gear assembly and Wheeltug is making one for the nose gear. Safran currently has made no ground on the development since last year at Farnborough where they showed the same display as this year in Paris. WheelTug is already conducting on aircraft testing with development in the final stages. Both systems are designed to pushback from the gate and taxi all the way to the runway via an electric motor in the wheel powered by the APU. The wieght on the system is nuetral when considering the amount of fuel saved from carrying on board for taxi time. You can literaly depart the gate with min fuel for the flight and carry more bags and pax for a longer haul carrying 45 minutes less worth of fuel.
This system is becoming such a big hit with the number crunchers everywhere because of many reasons. The Eco reason on emissions while on the ground is greatly impacted and the life of engines is extended. Also, time is a big cost for airlines and when you consider the time between push back and spin up of the engines, the time saved adds up quick.

[mummbles]

Tests were done in 2005 using a 767 and were successful. More tests were done on a fully weighed down 737-800 in november of last year and were successful through 6 inches of snow and ice.

[talkpedlar]

.. but your first reply was factually wrong ..and a tad abrupt!

Those DC motors will have to incorporate reduction gearboxes to substantially reduce the motor's speed to the desired mainwheel speed ... and with such substantial reduction will come the benefit of hugely increased torque .. DC power from the APU (sipping fuel!) will be more than adequate. In any case, there is more than just fuel consumption here; there is a continuing need to satisfy the environmentalists and Greens that the reduction in air pollution which results from long taxy-runs (before take-off and after landing) .. is being reduced as far as practically possible. My single concern would be commencing a take-off roll just a minute or two after engine-start.. even with all Ts and Ps in the green; but I guess the engine manufacturers know best about that. Almost silent taxying then..rabbits and hares beware! TP

[rahosi]

WheelTug is running prototype tests in Prague this week. The plan is to enter service late 2013.
YouTube preview snippet of today's tests. The full video will appear in a couple of weeks.


Come & see WheelTug at Farnborough.

[sevenstrokeroll]

neat idea...until the motor catches on fire

neat idea, except at our airline the first flight of the day has to have 5minutes of engine running at idle/taxi prior to takeoff (warm up)

great idea except for the weight

great idea except when the APU is on MEL

great idea except I'd rather have internal stairs as weight instead of electric motors

great idea except for ice on the runway/taxiway and the need for reverse thrust to stop

[rahosi]

AC motors fail to open circuit, not closed circuit. Naturally there is thermal overload protection.

It weighs no more than the fuel that won't need to be carried.

The system will be fully FAA certified.

For performance on snow, see the Prague tests in 2010 & it was run on one wheel too!

To stop, apply the brakes...

[grounded27]

This system looks fuly external, the battery cart it is pulling has to have a signifant weight and to mention if placed internal would have a significant impact on performance. I would like to see more, what sort of electrical load is expected? Can the APU of the test vehicle handle it? As we se now it is nothing more than an external tug, not driven by a ground operator.

[rahosi]

You are referring to the 2010 test which was just that - for the purpose of gathering data and trying out various components.

This weeks tests are a massive step forward, (although not flight capable). integral with the wheel & powered off the APU.

Naturally the final version will be FAA certified & integrated - giving the pilot autonomous control.

It wasn't a battery cart. It contained the inverter & measuring equipment. A STANDARD APU has sufficient spare capacity for WheelTug's twin Chorus Motors. The detail is commercially sensitive.

The weight of the system is not more than the weight of the fuel that won't need to be loaded. The WheelTug system controls and data flow will not interface with any other aircraft systems.

The savings to be made come to about US$600,000 (or more) per year per aircraft. But the benefits don't stop there. Time, engine wear, safety & environmental. Imagine being almost at the runway when curfew hours end & in the air 5 minutes later!

WheelTug is planned to enter service late 2013. More detail is on the WheelTug Website (http://www.wheeltug.gi/) There is also a benefits calculator.

[Sygyzy]

Still not convinced, and to date your customer line-up shows no interest by the 'big boys', nor the locos, who stand to gain most from this I'd have thought with their short turnaround times. Since I doubt that Jet nor Alitalia have any real money I suppose they could be considered your loss leaders-if it provides the savings as shown on paper.

Certfication/SOP's will be interesting too, as (eg) flaps on the pre departure checks have been brought nearer and nearer to leaving the gate as crews kept forgetting them. (Somewhat fundamental, that). How long before we hear of a 'wheeltug' equipped a/c trying to get airborne with just 3 of the 4 BRTs turning. Regulators just might insist that engines are started before taxi or 10/15mins before potential take off. Crews might do that anyway. Savings would then go down the jetpipe again.

$600k pa is $12000 per WEEK per a/c in savings...

I wish you luck-and watch this space.
BRT=Big Round Thing.

[rahosi]

And El Al & Israir. Plus look at the partner list of 'Big Boys'.

Why would 'customers' need money? It will be leased for a percentage of the savings. Win Win really. For no cost, save money and operate greener & safer! ~6% of operating costs.
Certification is being handled by Newport who have an outstanding track record of successfully managing complex certification programs for the world's largest aerospace firms.

The savings calculations have been verified by many of the 'big boys'. The fringe savings increase that conservative $600K figure. you might be shocked at aircraft profit margins (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090813145603AArXUAQ). WheelTug per aircraft savings per flight or year are a multiple of that. And which airline will watch its competitors adopt WheelTug & not follow suit... Try the calculator (http://www.wheeltug.gi/benefits.shtml) on the WheelTug website (scroll it down).

Farnborough will be interesting. Hall 4 / A13, July 9th - 15th

The industry 'big boys' in general are heading towards the concept of electric taxi. (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/in-focus-manufacturers-aim-for-electric-taxi-eis-by-2016-368554/) Boeing (http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2005/q3/nr_050801a.html)

[Old 'Un]

Okay, looks promising, Limitations on weight, etc. not withstanding.

So how and where do they intend attaching the reversing mirrors?

(Just joking really, as I'm guessing a ground marshaller still required for the back-out - I guess it can still be called a "pushback'.)

[rahosi]

It weighs no more than the weight of fuel not loaded.

One less ground crew is needed. See the WheelTug Gate Simulation

[750XL]

Loving all these unreasoned 'con' arguments...

A few more positive points I can see....

No tug delays (which can be fairly common depending on your airport), especially when you're running off schedule.

On days of bad slot delays, there's no need for a tug team to be sat underneith your nose (which generally isn't granted anyway as the team will be required elsewhere), all you'll need for departure is a banksman.

Savings in ground handling costs as you aren't paying handling agent 'pushback' fees

[Sir Herbert Gussett]

& how would the direction of the 'wheel tug' be controlled on pushback? How will the crew see behind them to judge when to turn, the angle of turn, when to stop turning etc.

[hillberg]

No fuel savings as the added weight & systems will be carried in flight, A nonpaying item, More maintenance,More cost, Less useful load. Better off with pay toilets.

[Groundbased]

If you're not attempting a start until close to the runway, presumably surrounded by other aircraft waiting to go how do you handle the situation where you fail to start or encounter some other engine related problem?

Surely this would play havoc with the flow.

[rahosi]

An APU uses a fraction of the fuel used by main engines. The weight of the system is no more than the weight of 'taxi' in fuel thus not required to be loaded & carried during flight.

The WheelTug system design is one of low maintenance. Another WheelTug bonus is reduced maintenance on those components consequentially used less; Engines & Brakes (Carbon brakes wear badly when cold). Also of note is the reduction of engine FOD damage which progressively reduces fuel efficiency in flight.

The ground crew is (typically) 3 instead of 4 people, who would converse with the pilot as they do now. With the (infrequent) occurrence of an engine start problem, return to gate.

[rahosi]

June 25, 2012, 4:01 a.m. EDT
WheelTug Successfully Tests Electric Drive System on Boeing 737NG

PRAGUE, CZECH REPUBLIC, Jun 25, 2012 -- WheelTug plc announces the successful installation and test of the first in-wheel WheelTug(R) system in Prague on a Germania 737-700. During testing, pilots were able to push the plane back, and taxi without waiting for a tug or powering up the engines. Pilots were able to move the plane through motors in the nosewheel powered solely by the aircraft's APU. WheelTug savings are projected to be greater than current airline per-flight profits.

The four day 'M1' system test was conducted at Prague Ruzyne Airport. The system performed on all pavement types as well as wet and oil-slicked tarmac.

A "sneak peek" of the full test video, including a tugless aircraft pushback, can be viewed at WheelTug plc (http://www.media.wheeltug.com) .

"The small and powerful M1 WheelTug, built into the nose wheel and powered solely by the aircraft's APU, moves a commercial aircraft through the full range of pushback and taxi maneuvers across a broad range of weather and surface conditions," said WheelTug CEO Isaiah Cox.

"I'm excited about seeing engineless-taxi come to aviation. It was a great honour to be the first pilot to use WheelTug on a Boeing 737," said Germania Captain Patrick Hintzen. "In particular, there are many delays on pushback and it is where the airline has the least control of aircraft. With WheelTug, we are freed from the 'chains' that keep us parked at the gate."

The tests were undertaken by the WheelTug team including key partners Endeavor Analysis, ICE Corp., Co-Operative Industries and Dynetic Systems. Tests were hosted by Prague Airport and ABS Jets, with the aircraft provided by Germania.

"We're proud that we're ready to enter the final stretch of system specification, leading to commercial deployment," said Mr. Cox. "A recent study in conjunction with Oliver Wyman and US Airways, as reported by the Wall Street Journal, showed industry net profit of less than $164 per flight. Thus, WheelTug's projected savings to airlines of over $200 per flight has the potential to dramatically increase airline profitability."

"The M1 test reaffirms our forecast that WheelTug will soon lead to significant benefits for airlines, pilots, passengers and the general public," said WheelTug director Jan Vana.

"The team and observers at Prague Airport saw the power of WheelTug in action for ourselves," said Vana. "Specifically, we expect that the WheelTug system will:
-- Significantly reduce fuel use;
-- Substantially reduce CO2 and other greenhouse gas emissions;
-- Increase safety and flexibility of airport operations;
-- Provide airlines faster turnaround times, reduced engine wear and repair costs; and
-- Substantially decrease airport noise pollution."

The WheelTug is designed for rapid retrofit. In under two hours, the test system was uninstalled from the Germania 737-700 and the aircraft returned to service.

After meeting the latest test milestone, WheelTug remains on target for Entry-into-Service for the 737NG and A320 families of aircraft. 215 WheelTug delivery slots have already been reserved by European, Middle East, and Asian airlines.

A full video of the test will be released at the 2012 Farnborough International Airshow, beginning July 9. WheelTug invites attendees to visit its Farnborough booth in Hall 4, A13.

forward-looking statement

Contact Information:

For more information:
Isaiah W. Cox
CEO
WheelTug plc
+44 (0) 20 7993 4293
+1 (410) 419-0082
[email protected]

WheelTug plc (http://www.wheeltug.com)

[Intruder]

It won't save much if it can't endure the full taxi. Can it pull the airplane at 20 knots for a couple miles, without overheating or drawing too much from the APU so the packs or generators trip?

[rahosi]

The design is fit for purpose! The APU has sufficient spare capacity. Speed and distance parameters are part of the design envelope. There are no magnets in the high-phase order Chorus Motor, which eliminates a lot of the potential overheating issues. The Chorus Motor's patented employment of electrical drive harmonics unlocks a power-to-weight ratio of almost 10:1 over conventional AC induction solutions. This incredible power density, and the use of patented control logic, allows the motor to function efficiently in both low-speed/high-torque and high-speed/low-torque configurations. In other words Chorus handles very fast starts and 'power jumps' as well as smooth, continuous high-speed operation with equal elegance. [sorry couldn't get it to format correctly]

[Intruder]

Can't find any REAL information on the Chorus Motor or current installations. Lots of hype as far back as 1998, but nothing real...

Where are Chorus Motors currently installed and operating in production installations?

[rahosi]

WheelTug is the 1st commercial application. Information on the technology is on the Chorus Motors website (http://www.chorusmotors.gi/technology/index.php).

Chorus Motors began working on the Chorus® technology in the early 1990s. Since then they have discovered a range of applications where Chorus can provide significant advantages over other motors. Principally, the ability to provide greater torque in a compact and more rugged motor and drive allows for drive solutions that are significantly smaller, lighter, and less expensive than any alternatives.

Chorus' Meshcon technology is like having two motor solutions in one! The Meshcon drive technology enables a motor to achieve very high torque even while operating at very low startup speeds, without sacrificing high speed operation.

Today is the company's AGM.

[Oceanic815Pilot]

Personally I am all for this system being incorporated into daily line flying. At some airports it won't save fuel as the taxi times will be short and therefor will be no cost benefit other than less overhead for the airlines in the form of tugs/personnel or contract costs associated with these services. On the other hand it will save a tremendous amount of fuel at many airports. Anyone here ever sit through the international push at JFK? I've always been an advocate for saving fuel where you can and I believe overall the weight of the unit and associated fuel penalty will be much less than the weight of two hours of taxi fuel at the major airports and the cost of flying that extra fuel around. As a professional pilot I am perfectly comfortable determine when to start my engines for take-off. I did it for years when we incorporated single engine taxi procedures. The only difference with this system will be a few extra minutes starting the remaining engine(s).

[keesje]

I wonder how the balance will be for these Wheeltug / Messier Bugatti products. Volume product/ installation / MRO prices and weight (~300lbs) costs will have to be lower then the fuel / engine MRO/ ground handling saved. Quantifying the benefits of silent aircraft around the terminal is hard to quantify..

The new winglet | the PlaneBlog (http://theplaneblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/09/the-new-winglet/)

[rahosi]

You should find the new WheelTug video (http://youtu.be/tvHwaFwQ_LY) enlightening