French customs

[Warrior3]

Can I fly direct from Biggin Hill to Compiegne in France without having to stop at Le Touquet or similar to clear customs? Is there a French customs no. I can ring to find out?
Tim Waters

[BossEyed]

You need to check the airfield information for Compiegne.

Here (http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/html/frameset_aip_fr.htm) on the SIA website are the plates for French airfields, including Compiegne-Marny (LFAD) (https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/aip/enligne/PDF_AIPparSSection/VAC/AD/2/1109_AD-2.LFAD.pdf).

They say "Customs...: NIL" - so you do need to stop somewhere else in France on the way.

(Originating from a non-Schengen country such as the UK, you are obliged to enter France at a Customs airfield, and during its hours of operation).

[IO540]

The other thing is that if flying to a "non international" airport, there is no obligation on ATC there to speak English, so you may need to learn French phrases.

you are obliged to enter France at a Customs airfield

and depart from one too :)

[Warrior3]

Thank you, most helpful. Feared that may be the case. Tim

[dirkdj]

Just to be clear: customs are not interested, immigration are.

[IO540]

Same policeman, usually, however :)

OTOH if Immigration cared, why does anybody have EXIT controls? No country (other than closed dictatorships like e.g. Czechoslovakia used to be pre-89) should care who leaves it.

The UK doesn't for the most part care about exiting, which makes sense, but the rest of Europe certainly does.

The rest of the world generally does too, AFAIK. Sometimes they have good reasons e.g. anti smuggling of artefacts (Egypt, Turkey, etc).

OTOH, if (speaking purely for the sake of argument and not suggesting anybody does this, and if they do it they do it not too often ;) ) you depart a non-Customs airport on the Continent on a flight plan filed for Le Touquet, with Lydd as the filed alternate, and when you get to near LTQ you divert to Lydd, nobody is going to give a damn, and this method has been used for more years than anybody can remember. The diversion could have been due weather / sick passenger / etc, which is within Captain's privileges, and nobody in the system is going to bother to get historical wx and try to work out if there really was any bad wx in the area... I've done it more than once but only in cases where I was being blatently screwed around for extra money and delays ("due to a non EU destination") at the departure airport which had Customs anyway, and I overflew several other countries before announcing the diversion. I am not sure I would want to try it in the LTQ/Lydd case because it is so obvious if the departure was a small strip in France.

[rans6andrew]

how does the "customs airfield" thing work from, say, Abbeville? Abbeville is deemed to be a customs airfield for arriving in France if sufficient notice is given. So, after visiting the town you decide to fly back to the UK......... is it still a customs airfield for the return flight?

Rans6....

[reimomo]

And slightly off topic, but one more...

What constitutes notice? If I the notice required for Abbeville is 3 hours and I file a flight plan to Abbeville >3hrs beforehand, is this sufficient?

Or do they need the notice communicating to them by fax?

[BossEyed]

A Flight Plan is not notice to Customs/Immigration, it is notice to the air traffic system, so filing an FPL will not meet your obligations to notify les douaniers.

You must do that using the contact details notified for your chosen airport - see the SIA link I posted yesterday.

[patowalker]

how does the "customs airfield" thing work from, say, Abbeville? Abbeville is deemed to be a customs airfield for arriving in France if sufficient notice is given. So, after visiting the town you decide to fly back to the UK......... is it still a customs airfield for the return flight?

Yes, but still 4 HR PNR to AD operator or by fax to Customs. In practice, they are pretty relaxed about a/c departing to the UK, so if you turn up from Blois, for example, it will only take as long as it takes to process the FPL.

[IO540]

how does the "customs airfield" thing work from, say, Abbeville? Abbeville is deemed to be a customs airfield for arriving in France if sufficient notice is given. So, after visiting the town you decide to fly back to the UK......... is it still a customs airfield for the return flight?I have no knowledge of Abbeyville specifically but if an airport is "Customs PNR" (as many are) you have to give notice of your arrival and departure, and Customs may or may not turn up to check you out.

Customs may have limited hours, too.

Wait till you go to Hania (LGSA) in Greece. It is variously 5 days PPR or 20 days PPR, depending on who you ask. And if you miss your departure date/time, you are stuck there for the 5 or 20 days :) Unless you get a Greek to make some phone calls ;) 3 hours PNR is actually fairly civilised, on the European scale of "civilised".

Or do they need the notice communicating to them by fax? That's a sore point... PNR in practice means PPR because you have to check they got the "PNR" otherwise how do you know? I will nowadays not fly to any airport which is "Customs PNR" unless they confirm receipt. I use email and fax concurrently.

France tends to be quite relaxed about it, but I would definitely fax and keep a proof of the fax having been delivered (as far as that is possible).

A Flight Plan is not notice to Customs/Immigration, it is notice to the air traffic system, so filing an FPL will not meet your obligations to notify les douaniers.Very true, but it illustrates the in-your-face stupidity of airport management, and the restrictive practices / job demarcation in this business :ugh:

[werewolf]

1. A flight plan is NEVER connected to a French Customs PPR or PNR.
2. Customs airfield : inbound AND outbound : still a customs airfield for the return flight (with sufficient notice).
3. Retain a copy of your Customs PPR, if challenged by the 'douaniers'.
If the French Customs officers turn up (in fact rarely), and if these rules are not complied, the pilot is subject to a hefty 'fine', say about £500. No explanation or discussion is possible with French 'douaniers', people are considered as guilty, unless they prove they have complied with rules and prove their 'bonne foi'.

[IO540]

Customs airfield : inbound AND outbound : still a customs airfield for the return flight (with sufficient notice).

Worth a mention that there are airfields (possibly none in France) which are Exit Customs only. A number of them in Switzerland.

[david viewing]

Just to add that it may be possible to get permission from a nearby French customs airfield to depart a non-customs one direct UK. After running through the normal questions with the douanier on the phone, I got "OK -you can go" on one occasion.

[Jodelman]

Quote:
how does the "customs airfield" thing work from, say, Abbeville? Abbeville is deemed to be a customs airfield for arriving in France if sufficient notice is given. So, after visiting the town you decide to fly back to the UK......... is it still a customs airfield for the return flight?

Yes, but still 4 HR PNR to AD operator or by fax to Customs. In practice, they are pretty relaxed about a/c departing to the UK, so if you turn up from Blois, for example, it will only take as long as it takes to process the FPL.

Be careful - very careful!!

The airfield authorities at Abbeville might be very relaxed about you not giving the four hours notice for your return flight but if you haven't and after filing a flight plan, the police turn up before you leave, you will be in trouble.

[proudprivate]

Standard aéroport, informations sur les vols : 0 891 67 32
Police aéroport : 03 28 55 08 60
Douanes : 03 20 49 67 31

Objets trouvés : 0 891 67 32 10
Litiges bagages : 03 20 49 68 32
Navette aéroport-Lille : 0 891 67 32 10
Office du tourisme de Lille : 03 20 21 94 21


I would give the police or douanes at Lille Lesquin a call and ask if they would exceptionally allow you to land at Compiegne directly, on conditions that you send them flight plans, your phone number where you are reachable while in France, passenger lists with passport numbers and birth dates etc...and all other information they require in advance to the e-mail address they like CC-ing UK immigration.

The worst thing that can happen is that they say no.


Alternatively, you can join Schengen










:E

[donkey89]

sorry to drag up a thread that is a few months old, however, on the subject of PNR to customs...

What specific details do you have to provide as part of the PNR process? Is it similar to the UK GAR forms or a simple "I want to turn up at such and such a time and leave at such and such a time"

Can anyone post an example of what they generally fax/email?

Thanks

[Duchess_Driver]

I have on various occasions faxed a copy of the UK GAR form to French customs with a quick cover page stating date and time of arrival in France and at other times I have just sent a fax stating date and time and POB with no passenger details.

I don't know what the exact rules are, but I've never had a problem with either method above.

[patowalker]

This is the form required by Calais, which seems a bit OTT
Customs form | International Airport Calais-Dunkerque (http://aeroport.capcalaisis.fr/en/forms/customs-form)

When flying to Abbeville or Dieppe, I send an email or fax showing only: ETA, registration, type, departure airfield, pilot name and POB.

[proudprivate]

Effectively they (Service de Police aux Frontières - SPAF) want
a) for the crew
b) for the passengers

1. Name
2. Date of Birth
3. Travel Document (i.e. passport, ID card, etc...) number
4. Place where boarded
5. Destination (i.e. transit passengers or not)

and then they want aircraft registration and type and specifics of the operation (if applicable).

The UK GAR form pretty much delivers all this info, so a copy of that would do nicely.