Your thoughts on a rather long take off roll. (video footage)

[Ultra long hauler]

Hi,

in the following link, on the right hand site; you can watch a rather long take off roll for what is really just a small aircraft:

CTV Calgary- Video Exclusive: Inside the cockpit of a plane crash - CTV News (http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110722/CGY_plane_crash_110722/20110722/?hub=CalgaryHome)

They managed to dodge a high voltage cable just before they "land" again.
Only minor injuries by the way.

Your thoughts?
Overweight? Lack of power?


###Ultra long Hauler###

[madlandrover]

Any chance of a new link? That one brings up an error message.

[Ultra long hauler]

Any chance of a new link? That one brings up an error message.

My bad, I corrected the link in my original post.
My sausage-like fingers struck again!

Thanks for pointing it out……….


###Ultra Long Hauler###

[AdamFrisch]

Looks like it barely cleared the runway and then climbed very anaemic. Looks underpowered/overloaded. Glad they made it out safely.

[Maoraigh1]

Is that runway very wet and muddy?

[Pilot DAR]

I am not aware of the details of that event, and have not flown that aircraft type.However, a take off run of that apparent length, would alarm me in any light aircraft type I have ever flown. I would have aborted, and looked for a reason.

Letting alone the possible takeoff weight, at that location, density altitude could easily affect a takeoff distance.....

[flybymike]

Interesting to view the pilot's apparently nonchalant commencement of the take off roll gradually becoming more and more fraught with progressively greater head waggling from side to side as the end became apparent....

[EDMJ]

Looks like a Murphy Renegade to me...

[FleetFlyer]

Its a tricky situation to really call, once the point of aborting and coming to a halt before the end of the runway has been reached, its all about crisis management. I think the guy did ok but I would of thought about putting it down sooner and putting up with running through a fence at 20kt rather than trying to fly on to the scene of the accident.

[IO540]

That's unbelievable.

Why did they just sit there for so long? That takeoff run was several times longer than it should be for any normal plane.

It also seemed to not accelerate at all past the initial acceleration. I wonder if his brakes were on, after a certain point?

[BEagle]

It seems my post was lost due to yet another PPRuNe server crash......

However, this part of the world has an elevation of 3500ft. On a warm day (such as this), performance of this type of aircraft with 2 PoB is likely to be rather less than spectacular. So a protracted take-off roll is probably not that unusual.

Fortunately neither pilot suffered injury.

[Dave1234]

This would make an excellent casestudy to demonstrate the effects of density altitude on aircraft performance. It never looked like the aircraft left the ground effect and one of the comments I heard after they (thank heavens) pulled themselves out of the crash was about their weight. This is why having a look at performance charts and doing a mass and balance sheet is so important and is hammered into us at PPL level. The human tendency to grow slightly complacent with familiarity can lead to a lack of attention to the simple, albeit slightly dull, routines of doing these basic checks and this is a perfect example of how it can bite you. Delighted everybody was unhurt and has renewed my interest in performance graphs.

[Pilot DAR]

renewed my interest in performance graphs

Yes, if they even exist for this aircraft type.... Though I do not know what type it was, it appears to me to be non certified. I'm not aware that those types regularly have the performance information we expect of certified types. This is one of the things you give up, when you decide to save the money, and not buy certified. The certification process assures the provision of some performance data to the pilot, or at least minimum performance capabilities. Non certified does not. That's why that plane very likely had a placard warning the passenger that it was not certified.

When you're flying an aircraft for which performance data is not as available for the intended flight, extra vigilance is vital. I wonder how much thought went into the possible need to abandon the takeoff attempt, prior to the beginning of the takeoff (I'm sure the thought was there after the flight!). Having and using performance data is one way of reducing accident risk. If that's not available, you're responsible to employ other risk reduction strategies...

Takeoff performance data development is a lot of work, and that's a bit of what you're paying for when you pay the extra for certified aircraft.

[The500man]

Chinese proverb he say: Beware fat man in front seat!

[airpolice]

I don't think he lands, I think he just keeps hoping to eventually get it to climb. The engine sounds like it is still going strong at the point of impact.

[stewmath]

I dont see a video, just a photo of the guy inspecing the aircraft after the crash.

edit: found it, it just hadnt loaded on the right hand side at the time

[stewmath]

To me it looks like it didnt take off, looks more like it just hit a road embankment and just jumped like off a ramp and flipped.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

It took off (eventually - you'd think that'd be a clue to the pilot that all was not well), but as Dave above posts, it was unable to climb out of ground effect.

They were very lucky indeed to walk away.

[IO540]

To me the speed looks fairly constant for most of the roll. That's why I thought the brakes were dragging, perhaps.

[trex600]

The only attempt to climb is that bunny hop he does just before the impact

[Wessex Boy]

If you watch the interview with him some parts don't ring true
He says that the climbout felt OK and that he got caught in a downdraft and decided to land...

But as has previously been mentioned the take off run was too long and there was no change in engine note... I would have been tempted to close the throttle once the decision to land had been made...

There is an old proverb that says that it is better to hit something at ground speed than at flying speed....

Of course the News crew applaud his incredible flying skill!

[dublinpilot]

Yes I too found his comments in the interview and the news crews comments 'interesting'.

I'm not sure though whether he's trying to cover his ass, or is in denial.

[flyingpony]

'Established a positive rate of climb.... climbing out.....ground's getting further and further away..' He really wants to press the point!
Personally if I had video footage of an accident and a seemingly conflicting view, I'd let the video speak for itself. As dublinpilot says, possibly denial. Possibly a concussion....
It's a real shame he didn't make a decision to abandon what is clearly an abnormal takeoff roll. Thankfully, in any case, no-one was hurt.
Without wanting to be too critical of the pilot though, we all get a different buzz from aviation, seeing as he's an 'adventurer' who rock climbs and dives with sharks, perhaps he just views flying as another risky sport?

[treadigraph]

who rock climbs and dives with sharks

He rock climbs with sharks? Blimey...

No offence to the guy in the front seat, but he certainly did look like somebody who can't say no to seconds... (nor can I!)

[goldeneaglepilot]

Not only is the guy in the front seat large but you also see debris, bags ect including a shoe falling out from where he was sat. They both had their shoes on so it was a spare. Doing a proper weight and balance calc might have been an idea. If the Cof G is forward then it means more up elevator to stop the nose dropping (we can see lots of up elevator applied in the video) that causes loads of drag and further spoils the performance. You can often fly a nose heavy aircraft,but NEVER one with a cofg aft of limits.

An internet search shows the typical takeoff of a Renegade to 50' high of 500', even if he had only managed 30kts then he would have travelled at least 4 times that in the time on the video. He should have aborted.

High density altitude, poor take off techniques, excessive load in the front seat will have all gone against this guy. It seems to me that the aircraft was dragged off the ground and never got to fly properly.

Good news that it did not catch fire or that no one got injured