Qantas/Jetstar mou possibilities

[Queentual]

Anyone heard whats happening with the 152 expressions of interest from Qf pilots wanting to go to JQ. Its all a bit quiet. Im wondering if its going to happen at all. Word is JQ management/fleet dont want a bar to do with the QF drivers.

[ejectx3]

yeah why would they...we pollute their culture.....fight for better pay and conditions, stand up for people like Joe....we are bastards.

[cloudsurfng]

aahhhh...it was JQ that contacted QF about the positions......

all the people who expressed have been contacted by JQ

[ejectx3]

They just have to talk to the guy at the next desk ... It's the same owners.

[KRUSTY 34]

Not "Across" the MOU, but can I assume that any position offered would at least be under the Jetstar Pilot's EBA?

Might not fit in with Management's Grand Plan. :suspect:

[Queentual]

I know for a fact that not all applicants have been contacted. He is an mou applicant though:=

[Keg]

Know of a non MOU S/O who had EOI'd and was pestered for three days straight by J* recruitment- just home from a trip and a relatively new baby in the house meant that he wasnt available to talk- until he told them he was withdrawing his interest. They wanted him to interview the next day.

The question is why non MOU pilots are being pestered and MOU pilots aren't getting a call. Perhaps MOU crew should be calling the QF chief pilot and ask the question.

[Uncashed Pilot]

Thanks to some self serving individuals who were promised 767 commands in QF for signing off the Mou .
Now JQ happy to have unlimited supply of experience on their terms.
Its only the F/os in JQ suffering as their commands will blow out to 10 years or more in Australian bases.
Thanks to the individuals who signed their lives away before they had even joined and who already have the premium jobs in JQ.
The next EBA is dead and a paycut is on the way , pilot shortage does not exist in Australia.

:mad:

[theheadmaster]

'Premium jobs in JQ'. Does that qualify as an oxymoron?

[The Green Goblin]

Let's put this into perspective folks.

You grew up wanting to be a Qantas Pilot. You slogged it out after gaining a CPL did the GA thing, built your experience and were lucky enough to join the company in the early naughties.

You watched as Qantas ordered 20 A380s and a record order of 65 787s plus bucket loads of A330s. You watched as the company made record profits and the future was certainly bright.

You got senior enough to get out of the back seat and you bid for an FO position. 10 years in the company and youre probably in the right seat of a 767 or an A330. Another 5 years and you may get a left seat somewhere. Your career is set flying in a proud airline with a great history. Life is great.

Suddenly the sister airline starts to rise. It's not so bad at first, it's just a few A320s doing their thing domestically. It can't hurt right?

The sister airline goes into massive expansion. The capital is pumped into this operation. New jets ordered to fuel Qantas growth is pumped into this offshoot.
Guys who have been in the company less than 5 years are getting commands and others who were driving 1900s when you signed up in the group are now wide body A330 Captains. Something starts to stink.

Suddenly your career has been pulled from under you. You may never see a command. The airline is shrinking and you face the very real possibility of going to the back seat again in the next 5 years, if you still have a job. Guys that have been there since 2008 are still in the back seat, and face the probability of redundancy.

Meanwhile guys in the sister airline are up for commands on the domestic fleet.

You are frustrated, bitter and resentful. How did this happen?

The sister airline guys start getting upset at you, because by you coming across to their operation to save what's left of your career, you are taking away their command opportunities? What a joke? You've been in the group for going on 10 years. You don't want to go there, but if you want to stay with the wife and kids in Australia and still have a marriage, you have no bloody choice!

Next time you watch the Qantas guys taking up those seniority slots. Have a think why, and take a look in the mirror.

There's a new spirit alright, just not everybody is welcome to share it.

[Crusty Demon]

Wise words, well said.

When they finish tearing the longhaul crew apart, next stop is the QF shorthaul guys. Once finished with them, who is next? One guess.

Just the way this company chooses to deal with people. Management have deliberately chosen this path, and they have to be extremely successful with it in order to make it pay.

The CEO has worked for only one model of a successful airline. Ryanair. Ask anyone who works there what it is like and ask if this will be all of us in Australian aviation in 5 years time.

[Sand dune Sam]

Green Goblin....no offence to you, but the Ansett guys had that rug pulled from underneath them 10 years ago...If you guys didnt see the writing on the wall when Impulse was bought by Dixon...well.........:ugh:

[skysook]

Green Goblin,

You sir, have one hell of a warped perspective!

I have also worked my arse off in GA and unlike some I didn't get into Qantas. Instead, I slaved away in a "sister airline" for many years working longer hours and receiving significantly less renumeration. Finally a real opportunity exists for me and my collegues to be awarded a command upgrade. Something we have been working hard for for many years.

All of a sudden a group of people think they have every right to just come along and walk into our airline and take our jobs and destroy everything we have worked for since day 1. Apparently, according to some people we are supposed to be okay with this. Apparently these people think they are better than everyone else because their airline is bigger than ours, they make more money than we do and their Q is bigger than our Q so this gives them every right to serve them selves as they please and not expect anyone to say anything. For a bunch of people who "don't want to go there" it's very interesting how all of a sudden, when things don't look so good and their careers are under threat they want to join us and take everything we have.

Mate, if you expect us to sit back and not get upset for what you think you are entitled to, then good luck!

You can keep that new spirit of yours, cause where I am no one wants it!

[-438]

Skysook, when you signed up to Jetstar were there ghost Q seniority numbers on Jetstars list?

[mad.tobias]

Like sands through the hourglass, these are the days of our lives.:hmm:

[Bigboeingboy]

The only reason a lot of Jetstar pilots are flying jets is that they are prepared to work for food. Why? Because they could not get a proper job.
Some people were never meant to fly however Australian GA keeps pumping the legends out!

[maggot]

:rolleyes:

[aulglarse]

Bigboeingboy, Because they could not get a proper job:yuk: well you think everyone wanted to be a Qantas pilot eh? Well good for you and your self-assertiveness.

Some people were never meant to fly however Australian GA keeps pumping the legends out!

Funny you say that, I know many pilots who joined QF from GA.

[standard]

Skysook.. you are an idiot!

I am happy to elaborate on why but can't be bothered... re-read your post, relax and have a think about everything that you have written.

What you are describing is everything that has happen to the QF guys, so please get off your high-horse.

All of a sudden a group of people think they have every right to just come along and walk into our airline and take our jobs and destroy everything we have worked for since day 1

You have got to be F%$king kidding me right???? OMFG!

Remember who pays "your airline" and who Subsidises "your airline" and who started "your airline" and who "your airline" took jobs off!!!!!

This is the most rediculous sh*t I have read in a long time!!... get your head out of your arse!

I certainly hope that your colleagues do not share the same views as you!

[34R]

Just when I thought I had read it all, Skysook came along.

Champagne Comedy!!!

[ANCDU]

The MOU is a two way agreement, if say someone who knew how to run an airline (JB) , was currently in charge maybe there would be massive growth in Qantas not jetstar. Jetstar pilots could come over under the MOU, above a whole heap of current Q pilots. Don't you think there would be a rush for that? I haven't read the MOU recently but i doubt if the J* pilots would have to pay for a 73/6/4 etc endorsement.

I understand most of the guys in jetstar that are covered by the MOU have a command at the moment, but i am sure they would transfer over to the Qantas LH or SH award without a second thought, especially for a command.

If you joined J* after the MOU, you can't really complain about this, its part of your employment contract. It should have been part of your consideration when accepting employement.

[Dixons Millions]

standard,

Could not have said it better myself. Only to add, Skysook is an appropriate name...

and from -438

Skysook, when you signed up to Jetstar were there ghost Q seniority numbers on Jetstars list?

Skysook, you signed up for the gig mate....

[Jetstarpilot]

So now the Skygods are gunna come here and take our jobs:mad:

U jocks don't even have to do the hard yards like we did and fork out for an endo:yuk:

Don't think you'll be getting an easy ride from this "armie of one".

My engagement just hit rock botom:ugh:

[Capt L]

For gods sake would everyone just calm down! Can't you see that everyone is getting shafted, QF guys being forced to JQ or overseas, JQ guys missing out on commands and don't forget the pilots on hold for JQ (who turned down a previous offer) who are still waiting.

For years I've read on this board that pilots will never get ahead until we stick together and now the bean counters have us exactly where they want and we're not helping the situation. I don't know what the solution is but I know that nothing will improve if we (the pilot body) are constantly at each others throats.

We need to stop acting like spoilt brats and more like the professionals we claim to be.

[tryhard1]

Capt L I agree with you.

I will be affected by the MOU, but i don't have a problem with this. It was there when I signed up, and if this is a way that fellow aviators maintain employment then thats a good thing. A command is not the be all and end all. It will come eventually, in the mean time enjoy having a life! Work is purely a means to an end.

So long as the MOU is followed and adhered to with complete transperency, and no special deals done, then welcome to our Qantas bretheryn. I hope you enjoy your time with us, and hope that we all play well together. Its just a job!

And I'll apologise upfront for the food, working conditions, calls on your day off at 3:00am, fatigue issues :hmm:

Come on guys, this is not the way we should be treating eachother.

[standard]

U jocks don't even have to do the hard yards like we did and fork out for an endo



The hard yards like you did??? please explain?

I cannot believe I am Reading this sh*t... coughing up some dough is the hard yards is it?

Trust me I know it's a sh*t deal, just as much as anybody.. but nobody forced you to pay the "hard yards", there is more than 1 airline in the world!

It must have been hard walking into a window seat, spending 2 years and then getting a Command (assuming you are a Captain)

If anything the fact that endorsements are being paid for has to be a positive and set a new standard for Jetstar employees.


Don't think you'll be getting an easy ride from this "armie of one".

is this a threat???

My engagement just hit rock botom

Your engagement has just introduced itself to your standards, and spelling!

[Mango]

Standard,

Don't take the bait. Jetstarpilot is a agent provocateur.

Mango

[Dixons Millions]

Don't think you'll be getting an easy ride from this "armie of one".

I think he meant "Army of one".....:ok:

[Watch My Form]

***Message from the Chief Pilot ***

Flight Operations to cover endorsement fees for
LWOP applicants for currently-advertised JQ positions
As a result of your feedback at recent town hall
briefings, I undertook to look into the issue of
endorsement fees for Jetstar opportunities. Lyell Strambi
and I have discussed the matter, and Im pleased to advise
that Flight Operations will cover the endorsement fees
for Qantas Flight Crew who take up the recently-advertised
Jetstar positions on leave without pay (LWOP) or under
the terms of the MOU.

Since the changes to the international business were
announced on 16 August, Ive been speaking with crew
about the impact they will have on us and how we will
manage the 180 pilot roles that will be surplus at the
time the additional four B744s retire in April 2012. I
have also sought to organise a meeting with AIPA on the
impact of the initiatives contained in the announcement.
I'm still hopeful that we will be able to avoid the need
for redundancies, given that more than 250 crew have
expressed interest in taking leave without pay.

I understand that the endorsement fees are a potential
barrier to crew taking up Jetstar positions. Therefore,
Lyell and I both agree that holding on to our crew by
helping them to take up short-term opportunities with
Jetstar is a much more preferable option for everyone
than potentially having to make pilots redundant.

This arrangement will cover Qantas Flight Crew who
accept currently-advertised positions with Jetstar and
are approved for LWOP (whether under the MOU or not).
We are still working out the finer details of how the
reimbursement of the endorsement fees will be
administered. We are also working with Jetstar Pilot
Recruitment to keep them informed of our commitment.
Flight Crew who are currently going through the Jetstar
assessment process or who have been offered positions
with Jetstar already should continue to follow the normal
Jetstar recruitment and Qantas LWOP approval processes.

If you have specific questions regarding your individual
circumstances please email
[email protected] ([email protected])
Regards
Captain P.W.
:confused:

[Queentual]

Most guys will join outside the ghost numbers so end up on the bottom of the JQ seniority list. No one is displaced already in JQ. "If" anyone is taken from within the MOU, its only a 3 year deal anyway.:ok:

[whatwouldiknow]

Divide and Conquer Strategy, also known as “Divide and Rule Strategy” is often applied in the arenas of politics and sociology. In Divide and Conquer Strategy one power breaks another power into smaller, more manageable pieces, and then takes control of those pieces one by one. It generally takes a very strong power to implement Divide and Conquer Strategy. In order to successfully break up another power or government, the conqueror must have access to strong political, military, and economic machines.
Furthermore, in order to maintain power and influence, large governments will often work to keep smaller powers and governments from uniting. In fact, this use of the principles within the Divide and Conquer Strategy is most common. It is much easier to prevent small powers from linking forces than to break them apart once they have aligned.
Leaders who utilize Divide and Conquer Strategy may encourage or foster feuds between smaller powers. This kind of political maneuvering requires a great understanding of the peoples who are being manipulated. In order to foster feuds, for example, one must understand the political and social histories of the parties intended to take part in the feuds.



Sound familar !! :sad::ugh:

[skysook]

Standard, I dont work for Jetstar. But I'll support a Jetstar pilot over a QF pilot any day. Why? simply because they work a hell of a lot harder and they earn a hell of a lot less and therfore do it a hell of a lot tougher than you! and I respect that, I don't care what happened in the past. That's completely irrelevant because most employees at jetstar joined well after their establishment. They joined because they needed employment to survive and with their qualifications and experience, perhaps Jetstar was the only choice they had. They certainly would not turn an offer down just to protect the flying and salary of some snooty faced, over paid prick in another airline.

Salary sacrificing $40,000 for an endorsement places a hell of a burden on ones income so yes I would describe that as doing the "hard yards". Since you're probably sitting on tripple figures I'm guessing that's something you clearly know nothing about.

Your arrogance and pretentiousness is outstanding! If you have an opportunity to join Jetstar then take my advice and turn it down cause people like you will simply not fit in...

..."There's more than 1 airline in the world" remember?

[Autobrakes4]

skysook, check your facts. Yes, Jetstar pilots work a hell of a lot harder, but they don't earn a hell of a lot more. Most Jetstar Captains would be on 220 plus, and some on 280 plus. Ask most QF short haul 737 Captains what they're on. It's about 220-240. 767 Captains about 250.

Just remember jetstar pilot, it was you guys that came in and took our flying in the first place, and now moan about your conditions after undercutting (read screwing) us.

I wouldn't go over and pollute your culture for all the tea in China. :mad:

[Beer Baron]

I'll support a Jetstar pilot over a QF pilot any day. Why? simply because they work a hell of a lot harder and they earn a hell of a lot less and therfore do it a hell of a lot tougher than you! and I respect that
So Skysook, you'd have mad respect for a GA pilot who grabs a job by offering to work for free. Or even more respect for the JQ Thai flight attendants working brutal hours for criminal pay. Perhaps you should take a job in a Nike sweatshop in and just bask in your self respect.

(No disrespect intended to the fine pilots at Jetstar, just taking issue with a stupid comment)

[Tidbinbilla]

Well, it was good while it lasted. No wonder your management are most likely laughing all te way to the bank, the way you treat one another :ugh: