Radio use

[dickair]

Flying a big ring route over a CTAF I thought I was far away from oncoming RPT and did not want to Clag the comms. However the RPT did tell me it would be nice to get on the radio. As VFR I assumed CASA wanted us to stop all stations call. So moral of the story I have learnt't is to give your intentions even if it sounds crap and like myself balls the call!

[Howard Hughes]

If there is even a remote chance that you are going to conflict with CTAF traffic, please get on the radio. It's the ones that I don't know about that really frighten the bejeezus out of me!:ok:

[Super Cecil]

If there is even a remote chance that you are going to conflict with CTAF traffic, please get on the radio. It's the ones that I don't know about that really frighten the bejeezus out of me

And the five 172's in the circuit each making four calls a circuit in halting Engrish giving themselves numbers for landing doesn't? Not being able to understand or get a word in is just as dangerous :8 Loog out the window!

[jas24zzk]

Damm right!
was transitting the EDGE of Wagga once. Heard a REX Saab backtracking. Had a think about it. Appeared to me he was gunna be airborne about the same time I was going to be abeam the rwy centreline, so I gave him a call. They actually had me visual the moment they lined up, as they knew where to look for me.

Good use of the radio is quality airmanship. Speak up, be heard and be clear!

Jas

[The Green Goblin]

Problem is Johnny sitting up at 8500 feet in his PA31 or Jim in his C172 at 6500 closer than 10nm to the field, dont think they are in conflict. It feels pretty high up there in a bugsmasher.

Problem is most turbine aircraft achieve better than a 2:1 climb rate, generally closer to 1:1.

This means roughly at 6nm they could be passing 6000 feet on climb. Light, I can be heading through transition closer than 10nm from the field, especially if it's a downwind departure.

Talk them, it can't do any harm?

[uncle8]

Too many calls versus not enough calls. Think about it.
Always call taxiing, about to depart and inbound/overflying 10 miles. If there are no other aircraft in the area, then there is no one to talk to.
If there are no calls from other aircraft, continue in silence. Continue doing circuits, no need to call downwind, base or final. Continue if you are departing, no need for any other calls.
If another aircraft calls inbound or taxiing and they are a potential conflict then speak up - tell them your position, altitude and intentions.

[jas24zzk]

Your right Goblin,
I was either 7500/8500 when i made my call to the REX boys. They had acheived my level by the time the passed behind me. (they did alter heading to pass behind)

Just coz I was high didn't mean i was still out of potential conflict.

And Yep uncle. too many calls simply stops the one you want to know about from transmitting.

[Aeromuz]

Just because you dont hear another aircraft doesnt mean you shouldn't make a radio call.

The AIP contains all the required radio calls and these days there is only need for a downwind call with intentions just like it used to be before NAS.

When in doubt make a call even if its not in the right order (AIP can help you practice), it helps to know where everyone is and allows everyone to have a greater situational awareness.

[717tech]

Uncle... If I understand your post you’re saying not to bother making a call if you don’t hear anyone else?

If so, what if the inbound aircraft does exactly the same? No calls because they can’t hear anyone else.... could lead to several aircraft approaching the CTAF at the same time...

Of course we are required to look out the window, but as has been proven, it doesn’t provide 100% protection.

[Capn Bloggs]

As VFR I assumed CASA wanted us to stop all stations call.
Not CASA, Dick Smith and his mates at NASIG. They even got it put into AIP for a time - what a disgrace. Fortunately, CASA finally saw sense an AIP now encourages pilots to speak up.

For those of you who think "looking out the window" will save you from a midair with a turboprop or jet, think again. I don't particularly mind if you kill yourself through bad airmanship; the fact is though that you will probably take many innocent lives with you in the other aeroplane you run into.

If in doubt, speak up (and that includes if you're in E airspace anywhere near a D tower)!

[uncle8]

I'm all in favour of making all necessary calls but dislike making too many. The AIP gives us some discretion - it's worth a look.

717, When we announce ourselves, either inbound or outbound, other conflicting traffic has the opportunity to make contact, we are relying on them. Similarly if we are in the area and someone else calls taxiiing or inbound, it's up to us to speak.

[Woodwork]

717, When we announce ourselves, either inbound or outbound, other conflicting traffic has the opportunity to make contact, we are relying on them. Similarly if we are in the area and someone else calls taxiiing or inbound, it's up to us to speak.

That's only true if they happened to catch your first call, or you, theirs.

From a ground ops perspective, there are a few benefits to more than one CTAF call, even on an otherwise quiet frequency:

1) Frequency verification, especially where there is no AFRU. If I'm at, say, Warwick (non-discrete CTAF) and I hear someone broadcast once, but only once, to Toowoomba traffic (which is a discrete CTAF), I might give them the benefit of the doubt. If they do it twice, I'll prompt them as to their incorrect frequency.

2) Ground vehicles and ground operations rely on good landing estimates to vacate the movement areas. This is especially the case at quite busy, RPT-serviced CTAFs like YWLM, YBUD, YPKG, YBTL etc where aerodrome works after hours are common. There is no guarantee a ground-based radio will receive your initial call at 10 or 15 miles, nor that you will hear any transmissions such a radio might make until you are much closer in. Admittedly not relevant if you're merely overflying.

3) As per (2) above, taxiing aircraft are often directing a their few meagre watts of VHF straight into the tarmac via belly-mounted antennas. No guarantees you can be heard or can hear - more calls equals more probability of detection.

4) Let's face it, none of us are as proficient at picking circuit entry estimates as we ought to be. I once spent some time operating a CA/GRS service and even those piloting shiny jets with quite good FMS equipment can be out by more than five minutes between initial entry estimate and their actual arrival. This is the difference between Joe Navajo (or, as I saw, Garry the Glider) being able to achieve another circuit or not. (In fact, a particular 737 pilot, having cocked his estimate up, then asked the glider he was turning base simultaneously with, if he wouldn't mind going around to allow the jet to land first.) More calls equals more opportunity for you to keep other traffic as aware of your position and intentions as is possible to be.

In short, except in the few cases where you have a genuinely congested frequency, I cannot equate good airmanship principles with fewer CTAF calls. What are you saving if the frequency is quiet? Time? Money? Fuel?

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Let's face it, none of us are as proficient at picking circuit entry estimates as we ought to be. I once spent some time operating a CA/GRS service and even those piloting shiny jets with quite good FMS equipment can be out by more than five minutes between initial entry estimate and their actual arrival.

??? With GPS, how can this be? I reckon that I consistently hit my circuit estimates +/- 30 secs at worst!

Dr :8

[Capn Bloggs]

except in the few cases where you have a genuinely congested frequency, I cannot equate good airmanship principles with fewer CTAF calls. What are you saving if the frequency is quiet? Time? Money? Fuel?
It's a case of always doing what you normally do. If you are in the habit of making lots of calls when there is nobody around (not much point in that) you are likely to do the same when it's busy.

Regarding jet ETAs, unless the approach has been loaded into the FMS, the ETA will not be correct, as the FMS will plan a "Straight-In" approach direct to the airport, ignoring any positioning for the runway to be used. It will start "slowing up" at 15 miles. If I then come barrelling into the circuit at 200kt, my original estimate will be wrong. This. of course, should be known and compensated-for by crews.

As for you, Doctor :8, obviously your ETA won't change if you're taking off, climbing, descending and landing all at the same speed of 60KIAS! :E

[training wheels]

.. and it would be good if light aircraft have their transponders on even in a non radar environment, so that they'll show up on TCAS. Is this taught in flight schools these days?

[mates rates]

By definition "in the vicinity" of a non towered aerodrome includes ANY height above the aerodrome that could conflict with operations at the aerodrome.This could include the meat-bomber at FL140 or high performance aircraft arriving or departing.So don't just consider the horizontal requirement of 10 nms.

[AussieNick]

Hopefully PLASTOD (or X training schools equilivant) is still been taught

[Capn Bloggs]

.. and it would be good if light aircraft have their transponders on even in a non radar environment, so that they'll show up on TCAS. Is this taught in flight schools these days? It is a regulatory requirement (if you call AIP a regulation) to have your transponder switched on if one is fitted, regardless of the airspace type. Transponders are practically the only defence against midairs with fast turboprops and jets and it is critical that the regs be followed. If a trainer is not "teaching" it, they are being negligent.

Please Please Please make sure your transponder is on!

[eocvictim]

Too many calls versus not enough calls. Think about it.
Always call taxiing, about to depart and inbound/overflying 10 miles. If there are no other aircraft in the area, then there is no one to talk to.
If there are no calls from other aircraft, continue in silence. Continue doing circuits, no need to call downwind, base or final. Continue if you are departing, no need for any other calls.


Please don't do this.

I can count 3 times in the last week this wouldn't have worked, thankfully by making regular calls the guys at the other end heard my 2nd or 3rd call and everyone was clear.

[JustJoinedToSearch]

Better to speak up and be annoying, than to stay silent and be a statistic.:ok:

[Aussie Bob]

If we could get the folk who run a radio commentary every time they fly to just shut the fcuk up a bit then the blokes who say very little may just have a bit more to say.

Add in the bright sparks who say everything except where they are and who can blame a bloke for relying on his window?

Sometimes it is very hard to get a word in edgewise and by the time you get a gap you have landed.

I was flying in Vic yesterday when I heard a lengthy commentary from a bloke operating south of Hobart. What good was this?

[Walking Ballast]

For what it is worth, I am could brush up on my radio technique some days, but I always always announce myself. ANY radio work is better than none. Small country strip, western NSW, a few weeks ago I was on straight in, I called long final, looked, looked, asked Pax to keep an eye out, called 5 miles, no replies, radio remained quit, all good I thought, last minute look, all clear, start checks for landing. 1 mile to run, caught a flash out the right hand side, looked harder, a local bloke coming in on cross strip, Bell 47, no notice, no call, not a peep. I go round, land, corner said local, ask if his comms are OK.....the reply baffled me.......

"Yeah mate, I heard ya, I knew you were there, didn't think it would matter, I knew where I was and I was fine, I woulda stopped before I crossed the active runway" :D:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Seriously ....ANY radio work is better than none. My 2 bobs worth. thks