Hour Building UK

[Airlinepilot1687]

Hi, im looking to build my hours for my CPL and was wondering if anyone had any suggestions of the most cost effective way of doing this. I live in the north west so any airports in the north would be great but I would be willing to travel if the price worked out well. I have looked into USA but think I may benafit from being in the UK weather to gain as much experience as possible.

Many thanks

[Aspiring Pilot Alex]

Give Keith at big red kite a call. They have two Cessna 152’s and a pa28. You take the aircraft on a short term lease and base it at an airfield of your choice. I used them in July and was very happy with; the service, aircraft condition and price. No club constraints, fly where and whenever you like. Keith really knows his stuff. If you need to take the aircraft back for maintenance they encourage you to stay and help out (this helps further your knowledge quite a lot). Just my input and good luck with the hour building.

Alex

Ps. - They charge takeoff to landing so taxi time is free.

[Pilot DAR]

Hi Airline pilot, Without wanting to sound unkind, might I suggest that what you're really looking for is the opportunity to build experience. The number of hours piloting is just one indicator of that, there's more to it than just counting hours into your logbook. As has been well said, you can have a thousand hours, or an hour a thousand times.

If you'd like to build experience in Canada, allow me to suggest a float rating, a whole different way to fly, and a great skill builder. Look into Lake Country Airways Lake Country Airways: floatplane training, endorsements, float charters and rentals (http://www.lakecountryairways.ca/) , as an example....

Best of luck.

[Whopity]

and was wondering if anyone had any suggestions of the most cost effective way of doing thisLook at it logically, you need 200 hours to qualify for a CPL and 150 hours to start the training. What are you going to do after that? Probably obtain an IR, so by the time you have finished you'll have 250 hours plus. Why not do the IR as part of the hour building, that way you get quality training from square one, rather than flying around in circles just counting hours. You need 50 hours cross country time to start the IR Course and then get a 10 hour credit towards the CPL. It is possible to do all of the training in a little over 200 hours thereby saving time and money. A PPL with an IR is of more use than a CPL without one.

[smarthawke]

Another vote for Big Red Kite Aviation (http://www.bigredkite.com/)

Good people to deal with.

[tmmorris]

Big Red Kite can be reached as 'A and C' on here, or PM me for contact details if you don't get a reply (he might be actually working for a change!)

Tim

[Alexsky]

Avioservice (avioservice.eu) is a good option - two brand new Tecnam P92-JS, GA certified and valid for time building. Located in Latvia, so weather not always smooth. Two hours any direction from Riga will add the International flight experience. Price - 90Eur/h (all-inclusive). Safety pilot - extra 15Eur/h. Other prices check yourself - cheap Ryanair direct flights from Stansted, Glasgov, Leeds Bradford, Liverpool

:ok:

[Airspeedintervention]

You think you won't get weather flying experience in the U.S. ???? Ever heard of Cleveland or Minneapolis ? There are times they would kill to have your simple UK basic dreariness. Your food though, not so much.

[tommyb084]

Ravenair Liverpool currently the cheapest UK hour building rate at £66ph for a PA38

tommy

[A and C]

I have just taken a look at the Ravenair website and it says £93/hour rather than the £66 that you quote.

If you are correct with the AVGAS for an hours flying costing about £42 I can't see how you could even break even with £22 to cover all the other running costs.

This leads me to the subject of small print, there are a lot of so called deals to be had on hour building and you have to know exactly what you are getting for your money, the difference between a Tacho Hour and a take off to touch down hour can be 15% and Hobbs time can add 20% to the cost.............. more if you fly from a busy airfield.

On the whole I think that £93/hour for a PA38 that is likely to be lacking in investment due to the (by this time) quickly aproaching airframe life is not a bad deal but I should just keep an eye on the "extras", the cost might go up a bit.

[tommyb084]

Ravenair - Aircraft Management, North West England, Liverpool Airport, City Airport Manchester (Barton Aerodrome) (http://www.ravenair.co.uk/news/index.html)

£66ph inc VAT you're charged time in the air plus 15 minutes (10 minutes before takeoff and 5 minutes after landing)

tommy

[A and C]

Tommy I stand corrected but this offer was not on the Ravenair price list on their website that I looked at. As I said things are not as clear as you might think, yes they charge £66/ hour but when you take into account the charge of 15 min for taxing the rate looks more like £ 82 for putting an hour in your log book and lets not forget the landing fee !

Then you have to look at the fuel credit that is about £0.30 below the market price of fuel so this adds around £6.90 to the hours flying should you uplift fuel away from base.

I think it is very likely slick way of squeezing the most out of the PA38's before they hit the 13,000 hour spar life and have to be scrapped, it is a very astute business move that is aimed at using up as much of the airframe life as they can before thay have to put the aircraft in for an expensive annual check.

It is undoubtedly a good deal and if you are local to Liverpool and need hours I would grab a slice of the action because it won't be around for long but don't kid your self the cost is not £66/ hour it is not.

Perhaps you might like to tell us how much lighter your bank account would be after an hours local flying in one of these aircraft?

[tommyb084]

Sure

A week last fri I went for a short bimble towards north Wales, would had flown for longer but had commitments in the PM.

Airborne 1310
Landed 1355
Time in the air 0.45

Chock to chock 1300-1400

One hour in my logbook and invoiced £66 plus landing fee.

Tommy

[tommyb084]

Most of ravenair's PA38s have the wing spar extension mod making them good for (I believe) 18k hours

Tommy

[The500man]

Look at it logically, you need 200 hours to qualify for a CPL and 150 hours to start the training.


You also need 100 hours P1 which you won't have if you do the IR as part of the hour building.

[airpolice]

1687, as you will see from the post by Tommy, An hour in your book is not an hour in the air.

I'd have thought that anyone "ready" for hour building would know that.

[A and C]

Grab this deal while you can, it is too good to last, at that price they are just getting people in the door in an attempt to sell them another deal.

However it demonstrates that you need to read the small print an operator who was charging who charges £100/hour take off to landing but includes home base landing fees may well be cheaper.

[Pull what]

Concentrate on cross country flying and instrument flying, thats the foundation of professional public transport flying-aerobatics and sea plane ratings arnt much use for flying out of Heathrow. Master situational awareness while instrument flying, you need to be able to enter a hold correctly at any time, any place. That and NDB letdowns catch a lot of pilots out in the simulator and on interview check rides. Master all that at the hour building stage and it will make your career so much easier

[Airlinepilot1687]

Thanks gus there is some really useful information here for me to go at. Its really helpful to see different points of view on how to go about it. £66ph thats cheap but also like the idea of hiring the plane out and basing it at home airfield.

:ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

Here's a thought for you:

Go onto AFORS, buy a very cheap LAA aeroplane, there's an MW7 there for £2.9k at the moment.

Add on LAA membership and insurance - around £300

Keep it on a strip for probably £60/month for a year, that's another £720

Probably one annual permit renewal - around another £300

Do your own maintenance, expect to spend around £25/hr on fuel and oil.

Doing 100hrs in a year, you'll have spent £67/hr and own an aeroplane!

Sell the aeroplane for £2.5k to another hour-builder, and you're back to about £45/hr all-in. And have learned all about aircraft ownership as well.

G

[Pilot DAR]

While I certainly agree that instrument flying skills, and the ability to manage a cross country flight well are very important, I'm not so quick to agree with

aerobatics and sea plane ratings arnt much use for flying out of Heathrow

Aerobatic skills can be suddenly very useful, and life saving, even at Heathrow (should you find yourself GA flying there). The confidence to regain controlled flight of an upset aircraft is vital (wake turbulence comes to mind). The understanding of what many aircraft can actually do, if you fly them with skill, through unusual attitudes, is very worthwhile.

As for a seaplane rating, I do see that there are perhaps limited opportunities to fly seaplanes far and wide in the UK. However, this does not reduce the value of the skills you gain in understanding the wind, and it's affects on your takeoffs and landings (as well as surface maneuvering). Even more importantly, as the new view on a skill for single engine GA pilots.... The skills learned during some water flying will improve your observation and decision making skills, when it comes to precision approach and landings at places you have selected, which are not runways. This can be a great confidence booster at forced approach time regardless of the undercarraige type.

Any new and different flying skill you can gain, even just different types, will entwine itself in your basic skills, and make you a better pilot. 'Thousand hours, or hour a thousand times.....

[ChrisJ800]

Do glider towing. Plenty of clubs in the UK and you get to fly something with a bit more horsepower, usually a taildragger too which is good experience.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Do glider towing. Plenty of clubs in the UK and you get to fly something with a bit more horsepower, usually a taildragger too which is good experience.

Realistically, opportunities to do that for anybody who isn't also an experienced glider pilot are fairly scarce.

G