First Virgin ATR72 has landed

[tourismman]

Landed BNE a few mins ago as Southern Cross 1131 VH-FVH.

[jibba_jabba]

got a picture?

[IAW]

Anyone know who will be maintaining these on the East Coast? Will Skywest set up an outstation? The only maintenance organisation with ATR experience in BNE is Toll.

[PyroTek]

Just googled VH-FVH
http://www.aviationwa.org.au/ATR-72-500-Skywest-Virgin.jpg

[jibba_jabba]

nice, makes you want to change jobs really. Wonder what the T&C's are like.

[Kiwiconehead]

Anyone know who will be maintaining these on the East Coast? Will Skywest set up an outstation? The only maintenance organisation with ATR experience in BNE is Toll.

From what I've heard it's Toll

[Typhoon650]

Just reading an ad now, Skywest are looking for cabin crew based out of Canberra, one of the new runs for the ATR's. Read into that what you will......

[sled_driver71]

jibba_jabba

skywest EBA as they are Skywest pilots

[Sqwark2000]

Skywest are looking for cabin crew based out of Canberra, one of the new runs for the ATR's. Read into that what you will......

Canberra is the next base. Likely next pilot recruitment will be for Canberra as well.

[Dragun]

Skywest Pilot Agreement 2010 (http://www.fwa.gov.au/documents/agreements/fwa/AE882623.pdf)

I'm guessing there will be a side letter to cover the ATR72 payscale seeing as the seating capacity is 56% more than the F50.

[neville_nobody]

I'm guessing there will be a side letter to cover the ATR72 payscale seeing as the seating capacity is 56% more than the F50.

That is one interpretation. Unfortunately not the one that Skywest management endorses.

[Dragun]

Yea it was just a guess. Are they just going to go by the F50 payscale?

[Anthill]

I heard that it was F50 + 5%.

[KRUSTY 34]

A previous thread went into some detail RE: the ATR T&C's. Amazingly (but not surprisingly) Management didn't even approach the pilot group or the TWU untill the eleventh hour, and only then when it became apparent that the assumed contract would not be accepted!

In a nutshell, the Skywest pilots asked for F50 T&C's + 10 %. The final deal as I understand was a compromise, but at least it was negotiated. Something that management incrediably thought unecessary!

Good luck to all the boys and girls. I hope the guys at the top manage the East Coast operation better than they handled the initial industrial issues. :uhoh:

[Dragun]

It's still better than the ridiculously crap 7% the Q400 drivers get from the 200/300 @ Qlink for an aircraft that has double the seating capacity of the 200 series.

[bigbrother]

does it really matter how many seats the thing has? If we were to look at the work rate on say a Regional Turbo Prop going into some of the worst CTAF areas and dodging micro lights, helicopters and the like, little or no support on the ground, few if any navaids and marginal lighting, the REgional RPT Turbo driver SHOULD be on $150K/yr whilst the A320 guys blowing in from ILS to ILS SHOULD be on the $85-$100k. Lets put it in to some perspective here. D8-200/300, same plane and the D8-400 a newer version. they still operate into the same places. Tell me why the Q400 drivers should get paid more. Sure, they are all underpaid, but it's all arse about, IMHO

[muII]

KRUSTY 34,

Sorry to tell you but your a little off course with that one.

My info is that the company failed to negotiate at any level. The pilot group were asking for the F50 + 5% on base salary only.

To date i believe there has been no deal done, as it has gone to Fair Work Aust.

[framer]

Bigbrother; I hear what you're saying and day to day I think you are correct but....with honest reflection, the few times that I've been pushed closest to the edge of my abilities of mental capacity have all been in jets. I don't know why that is the case, but it's how it's worked out for me.

[Old Fella]

Have to agree with BigBrother. It is generally accepted that the heaviest workload of any flight is usually in the departure/arrival phases of the flight with the enroute phase being much less intense. Those crews who fly multi-sector days into and out of regional airports, mostly uncontrolled, have a much harder "day/night in the office" than the long haul crews who, by and large, fly single sector flights and get reasonable layover breaks. As for the relative pay scales there is justification for differential between turbo-prop and jet crews because most outfits have a progression system and thus more experience before getting on the jets. At the end of the day all pilots are paid what the company will agree to and it is always an option for the crew member to "vote with their feet".

[ozbiggles]

So domestic jets only fly from ILS to ILS in CTA
Didn't know that one....

[Kenny]

Great, Let the outsourcing begin!

They should be flown by pilots at VA, or at the very least, the number of aircraft flown by a contract company should be limited.

[nig&nog]

I like what big brother said, so by all accounts because I fly five sector days into CTAF airports in a jungle jet I should get approx 180k. I want you on my eba team.

[bigbrother]

NIg nog, I would be more than happy to get on to a pilots body to represent the hard working boys and girls, but the arrogant and ignorant 'management' that I would have to deal with 'aint worth my blood sweat and tears. With the current exodus to Cathay (250 pilots short), virgin (recruiting onto the EMB190), and other high value airlines, it won't be long until we hear the usual tripe from management about how badly they are off without Govt. support, not enough pilots "please help us we deserve Taxpayer money" attitude.

I will laugh my tits off to sit back and watch it all unfold. And, when I hear the cries of foul play from management, I will contact my local member (or Nick Xenaphon) to set the record straight.

:ok:

[MrClaus]

I'm with Bigbrother on this one. I have always found it slightly bizarre that someone flying a 747 should get more than someone flying a 777, or say a 767 or whatever. I can only say from my own experience but it has always seemed that the toughest flying I did was in an aircraft a fraction of the size of the 400 tonne beasty I now call home. Is the skill and responsibility really that different between a 50 seater and a 150 seater? What if one day I am flying a 400 tonne freighter (which I have always found more challenging than pax flying) and on another I am half empty with 200pax. Do I get paid more because of the 200pax? In the end it comes down to economics and seniority lists. The big jets go to nice destinations and are owned by companies who can afford to pay the pilots on top of that seniority list the money they have been dreaming about since bashing around in a regional turbo prop. It has little to do with the skill and challenge of the day to day operation. Those senior pilots want to be reimbursed for the training investment they have made and the often substandard conditions they endured as pilots in GA and the regionals.

Hence the pay scale tied to seat numbers.

[Dragun]

The argument about whether payscales should be related to weight and/or number of seats is beside the point.

My point was that if a payscale relating to seats or weight already exists within a company (right or wrong) and they introduce an aircraft with 50% or 100% more seating capacity, then why does the payscale only ever seem to go up by a few %?

[Bang Bus]

Dragun, unfortunately I feel its because pilots are there own worst enemy,

[sled_driver71]

Hate to be a scrooge and get this forum back on the subject but has anyone got an idea where the aircraft went today?

[GAFA]

It went to Bundy for the Wide Bay airshow.

And yes the ATR should have be crewed from within as it has cost commands with it being crewed by Skywest. The number of EOI's the company received for the secondment to Skywest prove it could have been done in house.

[MonsterC01]

Also goes a long way toward refuting REX's assertion that pilots only want to go and fly big shiny jets so why bother trying to pay to retain current crew.:ugh:

Here we have a sizable number of jet drivers wanting to go back to a turboprop because it would offer superior work life balance, with fair remuneration.

You just can't tell some people.

The Monster:E

[bigbrother]

Hmmmm a concensus. We're doing well so far. I agree with Dragon and The Monster on the thinking here. Yes if the process for Seats vs salary is in place, then a proportional increase is in order. I personally think it's nuts and a hang over from the 'glory days' of aviation like when you bid to not go to work.

As for leaving to fly the shiny jet, the first Regional to actually cater to keep happy employees, will = happy customers = return business and better profits.

Back to the original thread though.

When are the next ATR's due and do we have any idea of the distribution of them yet? Are they coming to Adelaide?

[Sunstar320]

BNE/SYD/CBR basings at this stage

[Hanz Blix]

BNE and CBR bases only!!

I think you will all find those coming from the south are going to get away from earth quakes and keep families happy while maintaining there current work life balance. These pilots are also under the impression ATR rates are on the way and haven't heard anything to the contrary.

[HomeJames]

I do so love it when people do their homework! sid-star, The company bond you for a type rating, and paying for one will not put you ahead. There is currently no ATR sim in Australia, however I have heard rumblings of ATR throwing one in for free, and I have seen some surveyors at the Alteon building when I was there a few weeks ago.

It seems everyone wants to jump on this Skywest bandwagon. I think Toll lost close to half their pilots from the ATR. It seems they all took a paycut (Captains a significant one, 20k) to fly more and work weekends. Admittedly though, one gets to wear a hat with scrambled eggs and walk tall through the terminal, which must do wonders for the soul.

Straight home and dont spare the horses