Glasgow Airspace class change

[fisbangwollop]

To those that fly around the Glasgow airspace this may be of interest to you......!!!

SN-2011/010: Reclassification of the Glasgow CTA | Publications | CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=4654)

[fisbangwollop]

I understand Glasgow plan to bring out an SSR monitoring code in the not too distant future for traffic not requiring any form of ATC service and flying close to their airspace.

For those that do require an ATC service and are operating clear of the class D airspace Scottish information will still be providing a "Basic Service" below 3000ft. Talking to Scottish will still provide you with an alerting service and traffic information on any known traffic operating in the same area...the other advantage is that wearing the Scottish Info squawk 7401 that transponder code will be seen by Glasgow and if they feel the need to talk for what ever reason a quick call to Scottish info will have me trafnsfer you over to Glasgow ASAP.

Please feel free to ask any questions with regarding the airspace and I will try to help as far as Scottish Info is concerned.:cool::cool::cool:

[airpolice]

Joined up thinking, I love it!

[140KIAS]

I understand Glasgow plan to bring out an SSR monitoring code in the not too distant future for traffic not requiring any form of ATC service and flying close to their airspace.

Ive heard there will be a common code for Glasgow and Edinburgh

[airpolice]

140 wrote:Ive heard there will be a common code for Glasgow and Edinburgh

How would that be any different from 7000?

At least on 7401 both units know where to find me, but on a common code, which freq will I be listening to?

[astir 8]

Sounds like a cunning bid to inhibit GA and glider flying between England and Scotland. Another salami slice towards King Alex Salmon the First of Scotland? :):)

[mad_jock]

I really don't think it is.

There has never been a feeling that Glasgow or Edinburgh or for that matter Scottish have ever been tight with crossing airspace. In fact past history has proved they have given it. Creating lots of work for themselves and then been shafted by the pilots doing something stupid. Biggles crashing in Dundee is a prime example.

Where else has someone put the work to allow gliders to cross airways with minimal fuss.

From the folk I know at Scottish if you were say trying to do a trip from the Highlands down to landsend they would be routing for you to complete it. And would only ever refuse you if it was impossible to do and there was a real safety reason.

Scottish info is pretty good at jigging things up ages before you get anywhere near controlled airspace.

[astir 8]

Only kiddin' Jock :p

[140KIAS]

140 wrote: Quote:
Ive heard there will be a common code for Glasgow and Edinburgh
How would that be any different from 7000?

At least on 7401 both units know where to find me, but on a common code, which freq will I be listening to? Its meant to be a listening squawk to indicate that you are listening but not talking to Glasgow or Edinburgh App. I guess this will filter out the workload from traffic that would typically request a basis service, when routing near but outside their airspace.

Regards which frequency. There's only 2 to choose from and Stirling is usually the handoff point for traffic routing East/West or vice versa.

Scottish Info / 7401 is another option but they dont have radar.

[fisbangwollop]

140KTS......The "Listening Squawk" will be the option for those that dont require any form of ATC service.......as I stated in my previous post for those requiring a service albeit "Basic Service" Scottish Information 119.875 will be there as usual to give that service providing you remain clear of class D airspace.

True we at Scottish Info have no radar but we have the ability to give traffic information about traffic that we know about.....and the only way we can know about that traffic is by giving us a call!!! :cool:

[mad_jock]

I thought all AFISO's were fitted with crystal balls?

[fisbangwollop]

Rubber actually!! :cool::cool:

[airpolice]

True we at Scottish Info have no radar

Right then, You need to go and sit in the "naughty boys" corner for telling fibs!

[Eric T Cartman]

Right then, You need to go and sit in the "naughty boys" corner for telling fibs!

Well, that depends on whether doing a 180 deg turn & then scooting your chair 6 feet across the room counts as having a radar ! :p

[airpolice]

Eric,


I suggest you get fisbangwallop to take you for a tour of NPC.

[Eric T Cartman]

@ airpolice
Check my profile / location & you'll see why that might be a waste of time (unless of course he treats me in Starbucks ) :ok:
Are you thinking of the setup in the old Ops Room, perhaps ?

[airpolice]

Eric I was being sarcastic, given your place in the scheme of things. Ask Fisbang, he'll explain about me and the chocy biscuits and how I know how many beans make five. (some beans)

I know that Scottish Info are not allowed to make decisions based on what they see, but they can see the screen if they want to.


Back on topic, can we not call it the Coatbridge Corridor with a Squawk and a freq to listen out on? It could be either the Glasgow or Edinburgh Approach secodary freq.

I found this for Englandshire. http://jetbox.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/squawk.jpg

[fisbangwollop]

Airpolice.....maybe so if I take a hike of about 60 paces....that said we will shortly be fitted with a monitor display that will give us warning that aircraft we are talking to are straying towards controlled airspace and allow us to advise the appropriate controlling authority so that they can take the appropriate action to avoid the infringement.

As for Eric he is a very old and well respected ATCO and resides in an old folks home not too far away from my place of work. :cool::cool::cool:

[Eric T Cartman]

@ airpolice
:ok: :ok:
can we not call it the Coatbridge Corridor with a Squawk and a freq to listen out on? It could be either the Glasgow or Edinburgh Approach secondary freq.
Good idea - & perhaps the same for aircraft using the corridor between Prestwick & Glasgow using a 'listening out' code as well.

@fis
You're too kind squire - I'm living proof that 'Care In The Community' works then ?! :p


'Cynicism is the realism of the pessimist'

[airpolice]

What about one Squawk and one freq, and since it has Strathclyde Park near the middle.....

The Strathclyde Gap:
From Stirling to Strathaven to Klmarnock to Inverkip.

A Squawk to show you are in it below 3,000 feet and listening out on xxx.xxx with the benefit to pilots that they don't need to follow all the chatter from Glasgow Approach or swamp Scottish Info with transits. We could even tx blind to each other for awareness of other traffic in the gap, making it like a huge extension of the Cumbernauld ATZ.

Glasgow ATC would see the Squawk and know where to find us on vhf.

I can't see it happening as someone will need to pay for the frequency.

[aligee]

Earlier this evening a friend and I flew out of strathaven and asked for zone penetration to the east of glasgow.I was sceptical that being non transponder equipped we would be refused entry.The ever helpful Glasgow team accepted us without question below 2000.This was at a peak time of the evening.Thanks Glasgow for proving a sceptic of the new airspace reclassification wrong and allowing a retraining ppl to see how accommodating you can be.:D

[fisbangwollop]

Aligee....working with Glasgow on a daily basis as I do at Scottish Info I know they fall over backwards to be as helpfull to GA traffic when time and IFR traffic permits. If you ever get refused and to be honest that would be pretty rare they would have a good reason.

Yesterday evening they even cleared traffic that I was working through the Cumbernauld gap at 4500ft without any hassle, mind you they were landing on RW 05 so inbound traffic was well clear of that. The problem for that Cumbernauld gap for them is when they are landing RW23. IFR traffic is vectored from the Lanark area for left base RW23 and that is when the traffic routing through the gap can be an issue.

I really cannot see the class "D" base of 3000ft being any real issue to GA traffic routing VFR below that level in the class "E" airspace.

And remember if you dont ask you dont get!! :cool::cool::cool:

[IO540]

that said we will shortly be fitted with a monitor display that will give us warning that aircraft we are talking to are straying towards controlled airspace

Surely that means you will now be a radar qualified controller which means a 1000% pay rise :)

[fisbangwollop]

Was that a purple pig I saw flying past my window???:cool::cool::cool:

[140KIAS]

Im planning a trip to Islay from Lothians on Monday. I would normally stay well clear of the Glasgow zone however posts here suggest that's not always necessary. Any thoughts on the likelihood of getting a clearance throught the Glasgow CTR routing East Kilbridge - West Kilbride around 9am local ?

[Bigears]

140KIAS, I think Glasgow are helpful whenever they can be, but I think you're asking a bit much, IMO, as you're a bit close to the climbout/final approach (depending on runway in use). East Kilbride-Stewarton-West Kilbride might be ok though. At that time of day, I'd ensure I file a flightplan so the controller has details when will help ensure success through involving less work for the controller.
Be interested to see how it goes. Have a good trip

[140KIAS]

That pretty much echoes my thoughts . I'll give them a ring over the weekend and ask the question.

[fisbangwollop]

I dont think you will have a problem.....if you can file a FPL so they have your details all the better as free-calls not great due to electronic strips that they use!!!!!!!!!!!. If you talk to myself at Scottish I would prenote Glasgow that your coming negating the need for a FPL but as your coming from Lothian I guess your too close to Glasgow after departure to call Scottish Info. I often transfer VFR traffic to Glasgow looking to cross the zone on a similar route and have never been refused yet. Enjoy your trip, weather looking good and a day off for me so we will not talk. :cool::cool::cool:

P.S. Get Nigel to buy your lunch ...:)

[140KIAS]

Thanks for that Fisbang. I'll be coming out of the Edinburgh zone at Cobbinshaw so will need to jump straight onto Glasgow.

Question if I file VFR to Islay will the FP go to Glasgow ? I suspect not unless I manually add Glasgow to the addressing ?

Havent seen Nigel for a wee while. He's too busy playing at Master & Commander. He's PROB99 lurking in the background so I'll find out soon enough if he's coming along. Although Im taking work colleagues for a round of golf and thats definitely not his thing.

[fisbangwollop]

140.....If you add Glasgow to the addresses they will get it OK.

No golf for Nigel shopping for boats!!:cool::cool::cool:

[riverrock83]

I see that the final decision on the airspace change has been made:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/7/20120217GlasgowACPDecisionLetterFinal2.pdf due to come in on 5th April 2012.

I see they have changed the shape slightly, so that there is some more Class D North of Strathhaven down to 3500' (CTA-2) before you reach the Cumbernauld Gap airspace (CTA-1) which is down to 3000' (the same as what is currently notamed).

I'm going to have lots of fun trying to plot the changes onto my plastic coated map! How often do these changes happen. Should I get used to constantly plotting airspace changes? How do people do this - as I normally use "permanent" pens for nav plotting it will be hard not to rub off the airspace changes. Are there super permanent ink pens somewhere? Yes - at some future point I'll probably be using an updateable GPS system but I'm a student who needs to do it the old fashioned way for now.

Also - out of curiosity - will the changes also be notammed for a while when they come in as an extra highlight of changes? I can see me at some future point missing an airspace change and using a "current" map which is out of date, especially if flying in an area I don't normally fly to and so don't follow the changes carefully.

Thanks
RR

[boeingbus2002]

Clear sticky back plastic!
Plot changes on original map and overlay with clear plastic to protect this.

[riverrock83]

Clear sticky back plastic!
Plot changes on original map and overlay with clear plastic to protect this.

Like it - although last time I saw the stuff was when I last watched Blue Peter about 15 years ago. I'm sure I'll still be able to find it in an arts store.

Just hope the airspace doesn't change again for a while!