Navigation Exam

[WILCO.XMG]

Dear All.

Im booked in to do my Navigation exam on Wednesday and i am in a real pickle. I just dont get it. The whole book reads a pile of tosh (Jeremy Pratt).

Has anyone else had the same feelings trying to read through it and got any tips?

Its my last exam too so i just really want to get it done and dusted.

Please Help.

:{

[pieceofcake]

most of the exam is practical - so if you have planned flights during your practical flying then 90% of it will be a breeze. There are usually some radio nav bits at the end but a good way of prep for those is the Q&A book by the same author.

[WILCO.XMG]

I havent planned a flight yet?

This is my first time.

[The African Dude]

Sit down with a flying instructor and go through a few practice plans.
Don't write a navigation exam without navigating first! :)

[bingofuel]

The obvious solution is to talk to your Instructor.

It is not just a case of just passing an exam, it is acquiring the knowledge for a skill that is required to be a competent pilot.
Try to set your standards higher than the minimum required for an exam, the more you know, and the better you understand the subject, the better a pilot you will become.

[pieceofcake]

yeah gotta say I agree with SoCal - the book is pretty good - but more to the point the Nav exam will be real easy once you have done some nav actually flying. Have you done much flying yet?

[WILCO.XMG]

Ive done 20 hours as far as circuits.

No Nav.

Re the Nav book, i feel by a long way it has been the weakest of the set.

I have the basic use of the whizz wheel.

[pieceofcake]

There is no rush to get the exam done then yet. If I were you I'd settle into doing the navigation ex. elements of your practical flying and the book will become clear once you have something to relate to. Your instructors will be the best reference.

[BackPacker]

I did the same thing. Delayed the nav exam until I had done a few x-countries. It all comes together then.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

One method of track correction in practical nav is Double track error , works fine in the air but it wont help you answer the question on the nav paper which uses RA=60D , same thing theoretically but different answers in reality.
Well, there are multiple levels of reality - next one up is "point a bit into wind", and you get "a bit" right by gut feel, and the one above that is just do what the GPS tells you.

[thing]

next one up is "point a bit into wind", and you get "a bit" right by gut feel

Glad I'm not the only one that does that then......:}

[WILCO.XMG]

Well guys. After a lot of time spent looking at the whizz wheel i now feel comfortable calculating TAS, GS, W/V, HDG(T), HDG(M), DIST, TIME and a little bit of MSA and PL/ALT.

Some 73 pages through Jeremys Nav section, still another 114 to go. It remains to be seen if i'll be able to do the exam on Wednesday without any ground school help prior.

I will let you's know if i make any in roads tomorrow.

P.S. Perhaps i was being a little harsh on Jeremy. :}

[Crash one]

Nothing will beat some practical nav exercises to understand what the object is.

Well guys. After a lot of time spent looking at the whizz wheel i now feel comfortable calculating TAS, GS, W/V, HDG(T), HDG(M), DIST, TIME and a little bit of MSA and PL/ALT.



There is a big difference between knowing how to calculate that lot, & knowing the reasons why & how to apply it.
I would wait till you have been out of the circuit once or twice.
You may find that out of sight of the runway you will suddenly feel lost!

[Mimpe]

Dont do the exam. You dont sound ready and you want to do it at your best.This especially applies to a CPL situation where your professional reputation is on the line.

Get some more study done, including reading, test excercises in the exam section of the book, and pay for a few theory lessons from your instructor.

Pay attention to wind correction, true vs magnetic corrections, diversions (in the nav practical exam you will have to do a diversion in the air, unannounced, with wind correction and revised ETA's), and practice estimation of wind coorected Eta's. This is really important in real life if you are flying in marginal condtions and you have to have a concrete idea of the fuel implications of a diversion.
When I did it, it was with some professional help and teaching, and in a controlled way. You need to be able to say something to yourself like ..."I
have now done so many practice exams that i can reliably predict my mark to within a few percent..."
then you know you are ready....

By the way, in the group of CPLs i knew the,guy that got 100 percent was the goy that got a qantas job! A sensible aim point is 90 percent or close to it, as you then know that even with performance anxiety in the exam you probably wont fall below 80 percent. The minimum standards are higher if you go on the the Irex IFR exam so its good to get used to it.

[Genghis the Engineer]

What sort of instructor is putting somebody up for the nav exam without doing any navigation with them first? (Well, possibly one trying to bring somebody down to size I suppose?)

Cancel your exam, plenty of time to do it once you have some useful experience to built it on. Also get some proper groundschool, this really isn't a subject to self-teach.

Possibly see if you can back seat with somebody else doing nav training, or pax time with an experienced PPL doing a $100 burger run.

G

[Whopity]

The Navigation exam is based on the completion of a Flight Plan which you then answer a number of questions on. If you can't produce an accurate flight plan, then the information you generate will not match the answers in the related questions. Like a pack of cards the whole paper comes tumbling down.

[stevelup]

What's with the hurry to take the exam?

If you haven't even started doing any navigation yet, why are you trying to do the exam. It makes no sense.

[2 sheds]

Wilco.XMG

As some of the previous posters - and also bearing in mind your correspondence on the thread about Q&A books - I feel that you are approaching the whole task of training with entirely the wrong attitude. I would say that you are not alone - I see the same in other areas of aviation training - but your whole approach seems to be centred on "exam technique" and ticking boxes to get the necessary evil of the exams out of the way as soon as possible, possibly by knowledge, possibly by luck of the draw with the exam questions on the day.

But what use is it to you if, in ticking that box, you scrape the 70 or 75%, but have complete ignorance or lack of understanding of the remaining 25 or 30%? Do yourself a favour, take your time and enjoy (I assume that you enjoy) your training - from that will emanate understanding. Any exam - practical, oral or written - will then be straightforward, merely a demonstration of what you then know that you know and understand.

2 s

[WILCO.XMG]

Cheers guys.

So much sensible input in a single thread has rarely been seen around these parts. :E

The reason i wanted to get this exam done is that i want to complete all my exams before i get back to university, in September. I have all the others done, Medical done and Radio test booked.

Gives me next summer to continue the practical flying after I graduate.

I have tried revising the material again and it still leaves more questions for me than answers. So i have decided not to sit the exam tomorrow and have some ground school with the CFI. [Im sure you's will be all glad to hear there is one less inexperienced pilot in the skies.]

I'll try for the rest of the day to get the hang of the whizz wheel completely so that tomorrow i can get help with the flight log etc.

Thanks for all the support and advice guys [and gals], i'll be sure to update yous.

[stevelup]

I can't agree with your strategy, but it's clear you've made your mind up so no point in arguing!

[Crash one]

Bearing in mind that the exams are only valid for 18months, why do them early when they are just a theoretical load of unintelligable nonsense that you will forget when it is time to NEED it? (after you have the PPL & you are lost somewhere).

[mrmum]

Actually, the exams are valid for licence issue for 2 years, you have to pass them all within an 18 month window (approximately).
An applicant shall be deemed to have successfully completed the
theoretical examinations for the JAR-FCL PPL(A) when awarded a pass in all of the ... examinations within a period of 18 months counted from the end of the calendar month when the applicant first attempted the examination. A pass will be accepted for the grant of a JAR-FCL PPL(A) during the 24 months from the date of successfully completing all of the theoretical knowledge examinations.

[Crash one]

Actually, the exams are valid for licence issue for 2 years, you have to pass them all within an 18 month window (approximately).
Quote:
An applicant shall be deemed to have successfully completed the
theoretical examinations for the JAR-FCL PPL(A) when awarded a pass in all of the ... examinations within a period of 18 months counted from the end of the calendar month when the applicant first attempted the examination. A pass will be accepted for the grant of a JAR-FCL PPL(A) during the 24 months from the date of successfully completing all of the theoretical knowledge examinations.



OK I stand corrected. I still say why take them early before knowing what the practial bit is about.

[WILCO.XMG]

Hey all.

Just back from the airport. I did my comms exam and passed with 100%. :p

And after taking your advice got a ground school on the Nav exam. When someone teaches you it isnt so bad after all is it.

So i'll get plenty of practice in tonight and then sit it on Friday.

One piece of advice if i could ask though.

After I sit Nav Friday i will have completed all 7 ground school exams. As i have said previous my inital plan is to then go the states next summer and finish my flight training there and take advantage of their weather.

However i was thinking of getting my RT licence this summer but my CFI reckons i'd be best wait until i come back from US as i will have picked up bad habits and he'll knock them out of me.

What do you guys think i should do?

[BEagle]

What do you guys think i should do?

Easy - don't waste your time being taught bad habits in the USandA!

[BEagle]

Incidentally, by "Don't waste your time being taught bad habits in the USandA!", I meant don't go to some wretched JAA PPL puppy farm. If you do go to the US, find a good FAA flight training school and take your training there.

SoCal App, unfortunately the pace of many US-based JAA PPL puppy farms is such that they don't include any ground instruction for the exams, or even allocate any time to sit them. Cheating in the exams has been known; even then, the exams are often marked by unqualified personnel....:hmm:

But such practices will at least die out under EASA part-ATO.

[WILCO.XMG]

Hold on a second.

Why all the hate for the states?

I thought everyone recommends to go to the states, see stickies above?

[IO540]

I have trained in the UK and in the USA.

Both can be variable, though my experience is that the UK is far more variable than the USA where the standards were very high indeed. A lot of stuff I saw here was absolutely atrocious.

But I know other pilots who reported lower standards in the USA.

You can, no doubt, find both examples, in both places.

As you can find across Europe; a big variation within the gold plated JAA-land...

BTW, while I have sympathy for the reasons for not sitting the exams in advance of flying, I don't think there is a clear cut case. A little while ago I "mentored" a very bright young lad. I went through the basics with him at our house, and we did some flights. He passed all his exams before even starting at a flying school, and I know he understood it just fine. But then he also had flying experience before he started training.

[WILCO.XMG]

IO540,

Cheers for the input.

Well I have 20 hours behind me also, although all in the circuit. No Nav yet. So i felt at a good point to get the ground school exams out of the way this summer, if i had the cash i would have flew too but c'est la vie.

In the USA. Can you recommend a good JAA PPL School. I would also like to go for the FAA PPL too while i'm out there as i've seen many people recommend. Especially if its the case of an other check ride and exam.

[mrmum]

WILCO,
I think "hate" for the USA is a bit too strong, however if you do a bit of searching here, you will find many and varied opinions on learning to fly in the US. As IO says there are good, bad and mediocre, both in the US and Europe. A problem with any long-haul training is trying to find out which box your potential training provider fits into before committing to time-off work, flights, accommodation and possibly deposit or payment. Do plenty of research and talk to people who have been recently or are there at the moment.

I note in your last post you say you have 20 hours already, does this not make going to the States a less attractive proposition for you. The hourly rates are less, but this needs balanced against the costs of flights, accommodation, (car?) and living expenses. Over 45+ hours it will generally be cheaper, however if you're only going to be doing just over half of that, do the financials stack up for you? You should seriously consider staying local as you've already done so much, is there any solo in those 20, or all dual? As may have been said to you already, there is a definite benefit in training in the weather, airspace and systems in which you will subsequently fly as a PPL.

[2 sheds]

Agree entirely with SoCal App...
Unbelievable. You really do not listen to folk do you? :ugh:
Do you honestly think that 1 single ground session with an Instructor is going to provide you with the level of knowledge required to pass, retain and execute that minimal experience in your future flying endeavours?

You sum up your attitude with...
i felt at a good point to get the ground school exams out of the way this summer
It is not a question of just getting the exams "out of the way" - you clearly do not want to take to heart any previous comments, "so for that reason (you have Dragons' Den in Ireland), I am out."

2 s

[WILCO.XMG]

Hold on a minute. I have passed 6 exams with a 96% Average.

Why do yous feel i am still incompetent? It doesn't mean i will not stop learning, it means i won't have the CAA on my back getting them finished in a 18 month loop or God knows what will happen when EASA comes in.

I will have 7 ground school exams passed, to a high percentage, and now i am ready for the cockpit. Again.

You learn to fly in a cockpit, not out of a book.

[Intercepted]

I kind of agree with wilco on this one.

If you struggle with your exams it will definitely help to wait and get some practical flying experience first, but if you find studying theory easy I don't see any issue in getting the silly exams out of the way.

I dont' think I would be a worse pilot even if I hadn't done any of the exams. To be able to fly I need to know the rules of the air, navigation, communication and met. This knowledge will not be there just because you passed the exams.

What says that wilco is not going to learn how to navigate after he has passed his nav exam? I still read books and articles about navigation 2 years after passing my nav exam.

[WILCO.XMG]

Went out and sat this exam this morning.

Scored 92%, answered one question in meters instead of feet and got confused with R Airspace. I thought the R was for restricted.

Anyway.

On to that cockpit.

[Kolossi]

Congratulations Wilco :ok:

Having done 6 or so nav flights, I finally got around to doing my Nav exam yesterday and passed, despite doing it to the sound of automatic gunfire and various aircraft screaming overhead at Headcorn's "Combined Ops" show.

I argee with the OP that most of the book (Air Pilot's manual) is absolute tosh, seeming to go to excessive lengths to prove how clever the author is. The one-in-60 rule can be explained in a couple of sentences yet the book does a chapter of confusing rubbish on it. I'd got about a third of the way through the book in study then ground to a halt as it's so demotivating despite being reasonably proficient and genuinely interested in the material.

But having done around 10 genuine & practice plogs, knowing how to convert units & multiply/divide use the wheel, and reading the radio nav tech section (which again though completely overdoes explanation of RBI, QDM etc) was all I really needed in the end.

Airquiz.com was useful, but as always the PPL Perfector (make sure it's at least issue 2) was a highly accurate practice for the real exam if you know what I'm saying ;) :E :ok:.

[IO540]

I must say that if I was setting up a PPL school I would throw all the traditional books (Trevor Thom, etc) in the bin.

They make a huge meal out of simple topics.

The problem is that you have to train with "something", and also I think the CAA exams are based on specific concepts presented in the TT books.