Gaining a PPL in a Slingsby T67 Firefly

[Culio]

Morning ladies and gents,

I've done a little searching already so forgive me if this has been discussed recently.

I'm looking to start my PPL training sometime next year (need to get a bit more money first!) but I've already been browsing the local flying schools at Blackpool airport. Flight Academy Blackpool has caught my eye because of its good reputation (supposedly) and also because one has the opportunity to learn in a Firefly.

Now I think this a God-send because I have had a few unofficial hours training in a Grob Tutor with the Air Cadets (I was a Flight Staff Cadet....long story short, every week or so I would get a free flight where the old and bold military pilots would talk me through the basics of flight). Although I've never flown in any other light aircraft, I think the Tutor is a fantastic little plane and the Firefly is quite similar (or so I believe).

My only concern is that I might be narrowing my horizons learning in an a/c such as a Firefly, since they don't have the same characteristics of a Cessna for example.

Is it quite easy to "convert" to a Cessna once trained in a Firefly or would you recommend learning from the off in a Cessna?

I do apologise if any of this post seems a little odd, I hope you can understand I'm brand spanking new to the flying world; treat me gently!

[welliewanger]

Once you've got your PPL, transitioning between similar types is easy. By similar I mean single engine piston aircraft (non complex - i.e. variable pitch prop, turbo charged, retractable gear). Most clubs will allow you to do this after a few (2-3) hours differences training.

Which aircraft should you start on? Whichever you find to be the most comfortable working environment. At the end of the day they both do the same thing when you pull back on the stick. The difference is that some of the switches / knobs etc. are in different places and you've got to learn different speeds (flap limiting speeds etc.) It's like having a few driving lessons in a micra and then changing to a golf. There will be a period of unfamiliarity but very quickly you'll learn where the indicators are!

So, do the maths. Which aircraft will give you the PPL for the cheapest? I imagine that the Firefly is more expensive, but it is also more comfortable than a 152, so you won't be distracted by the uncomfortable seats (for example). Which may well mean you learn faster. But only (maybe) 10% faster. And then you've got to factor in any differences training to fly other types.

HTH

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi Culio,

When returning to flying after a break of many years, I did much of my renewal training on a T67B Firefly; (until the club sold it on me).

While agreeing with everything wellywanger has said, I would add the following.

So far as I'm aware, it is only the T67B that has a fixed pitch prop. All the other variants have VP props. So for basic training the T67B would be the one to look for as you don't want the added complexity of a VP prop at that stage in your training. The T67B however has the smallest engine of the range and is thus underpowered so it tends to use a lot of runway, especially in windless conditions.

In general, the Firefly is very much a military style trainer in terms of its handling and even the T67B is aerobatic. So if you have done whatever training you have had on a Grob, I'm sure you will soon feel at home in a Firefly. Certainly, you will prefer its handling to the soggy by comparison handling of any Piper or Cessna. The Firefly has a very slippery airframe and responds swiftly to the smallest changes in attitude, so you have to be on your toes.

Overall, an excellent training aeroplane.

Regards,

BroomstickPilot.

[Rod1]

The T67A also has a fixed pitch prop. Lovely machines and ideal training aircraft if you can hire them at a reasonable cost. As was said above the conversion to a C or P will not be hard but you may not like the handling after a T67.

Rod1

[Pull what]

Do your PPL on the cheapest aircraft/way possible. Its what happens after PPL thats more important. Is the car you learned to drive in having a effect on your driving now-doubt it!

[bingofuel]

Do your PPL on the cheapest aircraft/way possible. Its what happens after PPL thats more important

I cannot agree with this statement. When considering training for a PPL there are many other considerations apart from cost of the aeroplane.

Yes, cost of the aeroplane is one consideration, but 'value for money' is more important, and that does not mean cheapest.
Your initial training is the building blocks of your flying career, and it has been shown many times that in high stress situations you will revert to how you were taught in your initial training.

[breakscrew]

The Army and Navy flying grading courses and the initial flying training at RAF Barkston Heath were carried out on the Firefly. If you want an endorsement, then that is pretty good.
It is a lovely aircraft to fly, so enjoy it (even if it may be a little more expensive than a C152).

[Dan Winterland]

What endorsement? A SEP rating is a SEP rating. If you really want to fly the T67 during your training, then fine. It's not a bad aircraft and better than a C152/PA28 anyday - but whether it will make you a better pilot at the end of the course - there are many other factors and the Jury will be out on that one. I would look for the quality of instruction in a scholl - and the satisfation of the students. Flying more exciting aircraft can come later.

[stevelup]

Do your PPL on the cheapest aircraft/way possible. Its what happens after PPL thats more important. Is the car you learned to drive in having a effect on your driving now-doubt it!

Can't agree with that. Pick a good school and you'll enjoy your training and get more out of it.

The school I chose flew Robin aircraft with great visibility and great handling, and I was able to fly with the same instructor every week.

Would I have had a better experience in a battered 152 with a different instructor each week? Nope.