CPL and ME/IR Instructor - Critique my plan

[EK4457]

Having sent so many CVs to airlines it scares me, I have decided to seriously look into becoming a CPL and ME/IR instructor. Before the usual PPRUNE firing squad arrives, this is something that I have considered as a career since I started my PPL. I do not class this as a plan ‘B’ and I would genuinely enjoy it.

The reason I have discarded it ‘till now is because I thought it was not financially viable. However, I have thrown a few researched figures together that plan my route to CPL / MEIR instructor from my current position (CPL / MEIR / MEP / unrestricted FI with around 410 hoursTT / 120 instructional).

All my training has been in the UK and the following are UK prices.

Here goes......

Removal of night restriction £380

Removal of applied Instrument restriction £1,800 incl skills test

30 MEP hours £7,000 (ouch) – open to ideas on this one big time

MEP instruction addition £3,500 incl skills test

CAA extortion fees £300

Total £12,980

I’ll call it 13k for cash.

First of all, is this a realistic figure? Have I missed anything significant out or made any obvious errors?

Second, In order to start the MEP instructor course, is it 500 hours logged or 500 as P1 required? Having read LASORS I understand it to be just 500 hours logged. People tell me otherwise though....

Thirdly, in order to instruct the ME/IR, is it as simple as adding the MEP instructor to your FI or is there something else required?

And finally the usual question about expected rates of pay in the UK (preferably north England). I have heard of MEIR instructors earning £30k+. I’ve also heard they earn £30 per hour. The former makes it possible and the latter impossible. What are your experiences?

Thanks,

EK

[Whopity]

Removal of applied Instrument restriction £1,800 incl skills testA point to note: Under EASA you will need 200 hours time in accordance with IFR before you can do this course. I am sure you can work out what that will cost so don't delay!

If you beat the rush your skills will be in demand, if you delay, you will join the many others who can't afford to become a commercial instructor.

[blagger]

Whopity - can I just clarify the concern about the 200hrs IFR requirement, I think the issue is:

- you will need 200hrs IFR to do the IRI course

- the CAA 1hr by sole reference = 4 hrs IFR will disappear (hence previous route of holding an IR giving you 200hrs IFR will disappear)

- you wont be able to do the IRI by having an IMC, so wont be able to build the 200hrs IFR by teaching for IMC ratings

- only way to build 200hrs IFR would be teaching loads of night ratings or somehow obtaining 150hrs IFR post your IR?

Did I get that right?

So will those of us having done the IRI course but only having IMC ratings be OK? (as long as we go and get an IR presumably?)

[Whopity]

The 200 hours IFR is a course pre-requisite, if you are qualified, you are past that hurdle and should retain existing privileges, but for those who don't, it looks very onerous. That's why the CAA made the 4:1 concession when a group of "pilots" realised nobody would ever qualify. Clerks and lawyers don't seem to have the same insight!

[BillieBob]

only way to build 200hrs IFR would be teaching loads of night ratings.... There is a problem here. If night flying continues to be IFR in the UK, then nobody will be able to train for a night qualification without first obtaining an IR and there will be very few takers for that. Alternatively, if the UK allows night flying under VFR then no amount of night instruction will increase your IFR time.

[Whopity]

BB I deliberately left that bit for you! I don't like to be the bearer of all the bad news.

[EK4457]

Thanks for your replies guys.

So, as an CPL/MEIR holder, I have the 50 hours of flight with sole reference to instruments from my training. Obviously this will be as P2. Now, I understand that this will count as the 200 hours of IFR flight via the x4 rule.

Am I wrong? Or is the arrival of EASA OPS going to change that? If so, roughly when? In order to instruct MEIR, do I just add the MEP instruction rating to my licence?

Also, any info about pay rates would be really useful as this is the deal breaker....

EK

[BillieBob]

It is not the arrival of EASA OPS but of Part-FCL that brings the changes to licensing and that is due to happen on 8 April 2012. However, at the meeting of the EC's EASA Committee on 30 June it was agreed that the Aircrew (Licensing) regulation will provide for an opt-out for Member States of one year, until 8 April 2013, on all the annexes. This means that, in addition to the transition periods already announced, the CAA can, should it choose to do so, phase the adoption of the new rules over a 12 month period. Once implemented, IFR means IFR and the CAA will not be permitted to retain the 'x4 rule' unless it is included in an AMC to Part-FCL.

[blagger]

EK - I wouldn't worry about pay rates, you need to worry about the availability of jobs. Look at the Standards Doc, there aren't that many places that do Multi/IR stuff and they usually have long established instructors. Without wishing to be rude, if you only have 120hrs instructional, even if you go and get all the ratings, I suspect you will be up against very stiff competition. Most Multi/IR instructors I know are either ex-airlines or have worked doing PPL level for a bigger school, started doing CPL for same school, then worked upwards etc..

[EK4457]

Blagger,

Good point. The idea was to instruct IMC or SEIR to build up the experience. Not easy to get into I agree but I am looking to do this as a career. If it takes 5 years of instructing PPL/CPL to get there then I'm interested if the money is sensible. Hence the reason I ask about rates of pay.

EK

[Duchess_Driver]

... as nobody else seems to want to answer the rates of pay bit.

It is possible to earn a decent living as a CPL/ME instructor and rates of £30 per flying hour or more can be found. Again, it will all depend upon what you are teaching and where you are teaching it.

I have a PPL rate, an instrument rate and an FIC rate but to give you precise figure is very difficult. Usually with the professional courses you are briefing/debriefing for longer and subsequently not as 'airborne' as some of the PPL instructors but due to the higher pay rates you end up with better earnings. That's my experience.

HTH

DD

[EK4457]

Thanks DD.

Is 4-500 hours per year realistic as a full time instructor?

If so then that's less than £15k per year on £30ph. Unfortunately not the 'career' money that I was looking for. Unless I'm missing something?

EK

[Duchess_Driver]

Again, situations vary from one flight school to another and course to course.

You'd normally expect to be on a retainer/base salary in addition to 'flight pay', and school make-up (throughput of students, number of instructors, number of aircraft) and SOPs will also factor. According to our Ops manual I am not allowed to have more than 2 FIC students on the go at any one time which means that I can give them the time they deserve from me. It also means that I don't work 7 days a week as well.

Remember also, for professional instruction the weather usually plays less of a factor than it does for PPL instruction. I average about 550-600 a year.

[max_continuous]

EK,

Interesting question you've raised as I had considered similar ideas in light of my situation being vaguely similar, so thanks for asking and to all others for the replies.

My question (with apologies for the slight thread drift) is how you managed to get unrestricted so quickly ie. 120hrs instruction which I am assuming includes 25 solo supervisions? I am currently restricted and in the last two weeks have flown over 25 hours instruction, but have only one solo as yet to my name at a busy school with 7 days per week operations. Any advice would be appreciated?

(My supervising FI and others in the school are trying to send solos my way when possible, just wondering if I've missed a trick here...)

Thanks.

[Whopity]

120hrs instruction which I am assuming includes 25 solo supervisions?Supervising hours do not count as instructional hours; you don't fly them, so you don't log or count them! They are just recorded on SRG1133. Whilst this is obvious to most, I have seen examples of some instructors incorrectly logging them.

[blagger]

Max - I think you will find that there is much variance in how schools treat the 25 supervision sign-offs.

[BillieBob]

I have seen examples of some instructors incorrectly logging them.And why not? On a solo flight a Student Pilot is In Command of the aeroplane and LASORS states "The holder of an instructor rating may log as pilot in command all flight time during which he .... supervises SPIC flying". QED! :E

[Whopity]

But we all know LASORS is only a "guidance" document with no legal status. As ever, guidance can be both good and bad!

[EK4457]

For solo sign offs, I had really good support from my employer. Basically, I got a phone call to say a student is going solo, went to the airfield, briefed the student with my supervising FI and then sent them off.

As to whether you can log it is a can of worms. I honestly didnt. I'd have had an extra 30 hours P1 if I did!

There was a bit of confusion as to who's licence the student was flying on. Was it mine or the supervising FI? Either way, as it was not usually 'my student' I didn't get paid for it either. The 25 took me about 20 months as I am only part time.

Back on the ME/IR instructing subject, it looksas if a salary of around £25k is not realistic even in a few years. Which is a shame. That's probably what I'd need to live on.

EK

[BillieBob]

As to whether you can log it is a can of worms.No, it isn't, it's perfectly straightforward. Of course you can't log someone else's solo flying. There was a reason for that smiley at the end of my last post, you know.:rolleyes:

[EK4457]

Billiebob.

I was refering to the fact that there was confusion over who's licence was being used for the solo. Is it the restricted licence or the supervising FI's licence? If you're really good you'll know that one....;)

Itlldoatrip

That's more like the figures I was looking for. Out of interest, (roughly) what kind of experience levels would be required for a £27k starting salary?

EK

[Whopity]

there was confusion over who's licence was being used for the solo.No confusion whatsoever, neither! The student is flying in accordance with the exemption stated in Art 5252 (1) A person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft for the purpose of becoming
qualified for the grant or renewal of a pilot's licence or the inclusion or variation of any
rating in a pilot's licence within the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle
of Man, without being the holder of an appropriate licence granted or rendered valid
under this Order, if the conditions in paragraph (2) are satisfied.
If you are supervising, you should be paid for it.