Recording Flight with N Flightcam

[MarkR1981]

I am thinking about investing in a decent cam for use in flight that will give great video annd audio results. I will admit I am a bit taken in by gagets in general terms but I think that the ability to record flight and audio to a high standard will be excellent in the sense that I can essentially bulid a video diary of all my flights and destinations to look back on later.

This for me has two appeals-

1)ability to re-live some of the fantastic scenery or specific challenges I have had to deal with

2) Could function as an excellent training aid for myself and or others not to mention the ability to learn from any imperfections.


Well enough of that...... I basically created this thread with two purposes.

1) To get a feel for how many people do record their flights and to ascertain how much success they have with this.

and

2) Does anyone currently own or have seen the N Flightcam (available from Transair website) in action? If so I would be greatful for any feedback. I understand this device is quite expensive, but in context with the price of flying I reckon It may be a worthwhile investment.

Any Thoughts .... :hmm:

[thing]

7of 9 (Trev) videos a lot of his flights, not sure what gear he uses but he gets good results. I'm sure he'll be along to give you some advice.

[FunkyStick]

Check out the GoPro video camera. It does HD, records to an SD card and can capture cockpit sound. To tap the camera directly into the audio/radio/intercom would take a little more work but shouldnt be too hard. You can also "double record", meaning you can capture the audio with a separate and very cheap mp3 recorder. Before engine start, clap your hands together with the intercom microphone open so that the camera and the digital recorder capture the sound at the same time. Also, try to clap where the camera can see your hands come together. Then sync up the audio and video tracks in an NLE video program. Camera is about $300US, a digital recorder about $50-70US. Piece of cake.

The beauty of the GoPro is the quality of its video for its size. Its actually smaller than a pack of cigarettes and its extremely light. Consequently, it can be mounted almost anywhere. A lot of reality shows on TV these days use them. I've mounted them in aircraft, cars, etc. This is a technology that didnt exist until very recently.

[7of9]

As Dave (thing) said HERE I am:ok:

I use this;

Nflightcam Cockpit HD GPS Video System (http://www.transair.co.uk/sp+Nflightcam-Cockpit-Video-Camera-Nflightcam-Cockpit-HD-GPS-Video-System+7349)

Brilliant piece of kit, but you will also need this to mount it on;

SUCTION CUP RAM MOUNT FOR NFLIGHTCAM (http://www.transair.co.uk/sp+SUCTION-CUP-RAM-MOUNT-FOR-NFLIGHTCAM+7344)

I have just finished & passed my IMC Course & used this as a training & analysing tool for me & my Instructor to view afterwards as I was wearing Foggles for most of the Flying doing ILS approaches & couldn't "see" what was going on outside, this showed me & also gave me a good GPS Trace to see my track down to runway before i removed the Foggles. The RT & incockpit talking was also a good thing to hear too.

Here are some of the films I took recently using this equipment;

This was the last ILS i did before passing my skills test;

‪ILS EGCN. Runway 20 Doncaster Sheffield Airport‬‏ - YouTube

This was when i was on Holiday in USA & took it for a ride.:cool:

‪PA28 USA Flying.Jacksonville KIJX‬‏ - YouTube

Hope this helps.

Trev

[7of9]

Another Film just remembered i had;

Flight from Springfield Illinois KSPI in a Cessna 172 while i was on holiday. This shows the difference to our RT & USA RT, Thinks some of it where we both trip up is Accent differences & Procedures, Also tried to upload in HD;

‪N80470 Flight KSPI 16.06.2011 USA‬‏ - YouTube
Trev

[stiknruda]

We at Wildcat did quite a lot of research and looked at GoPro, Contour, NFlight before we finally chose Drift in mid July '11.

Have a look at the quality of our vids on the website and the Blog page about the video camera selection process. It also tells you where to get them from. We are delighted with the audio and video output.

Aerobatic Display Team | Wildcat Aerobatics (http://www.wildcataerobatics.com)



Stik

[MarkR1981]

Thanks 7 0f 9 for your vids, i will check these once i get off this ship I am currently on (internet bandwidth is crappy!)

Thanks to everyone else for their input, and keep the reviews/ideas coming:ok:

Cheers

[IO540]

You need to do a whole lot more work to get videos of a generally acceptable quality.

These miniature cameras all suffer from a ultra fast shutter which creates the weird prop effects. I've got through several of them.

One can alleviate the artefacts a bit with a neutral density filter, which slows down the shutter, but really one needs to use a camera with a manual shutter control, like the semi-pro camcorders have.

I am now using a Canon Legria G10 and with a 1/120 (or slower) shutter the result is really good. But obviously this costs more money.

Vibration is also an issue. It blurs the image. One needs to make an anti-vibration mount. People doing this seriously use special vibration absorbing bushes like these (http://www.wowhobbies.com/isolateitsorbothanevibrationisolationwasher30duro45id-1od-19deep-1.aspx) to make up a camera mount. They are cheap enough but hard to get in the UK; I have ordered some from the USA.

Here (http://www.b-hague.co.uk/camera_suction_pads_vacuum_mounts.htm) are some suction mounts.

[AJ1990]

When I was training towards my PPL my instructor used the NFlightCam - initially I was really impressed with the quality. The only problem he found was that after about 3 months the camera started to corrupt files willy nilly! The camera was being used quite heavily I should point out though, so maybe this is a unfair review.

I use a GoPro Hero 960p - the slightly cheaper version of the full HD one. The quality is great and I always wear it attached to the head strap. The only problem I've found with the Hero is that it struggles to adjust from constant variations of light. If it has focussed out the window it takes a good 4-5 seconds to adjust to a cockpit when focused upon. Saying that I love it to bits!

[The500man]

These miniature cameras all suffer from a ultra fast shutter which creates the weird prop effects.

I find that swirly line prop-effect particularly annoying. The Sony bullet cam produces an effect like the prop is standing still or slowly turning in either direction which is slightly less annoying, but I've not seen any small camera that can display the prop as a spinning disc or that can change exposure quicker than 2/3 seconds.

Vibration is also an issue. It blurs the image. One needs to make an anti-vibration mount. People doing this seriously use special vibration absorbing bushes like these (http://www.wowhobbies.com/isolateitsorbothanevibrationisolationwasher30duro45id-1od-19deep-1.aspx) to make up a camera mount. They are cheap enough but hard to get in the UK; I have ordered some from the USA.

A cheaper way is to use the highly sophisticated human body mount option, which is the best solution for training since it will give you an idea where you were looking at any given moment. Not popular with some viewers though if you're posting on youtube etc.

I have flown with a bullet cam since passing my PPL and it is quite useful to look back on flights. I did post a couple videos in the personal flying vids section but looking at them now they are pretty boring! In fact it's slightly frightening looking back at how low some of my approaches used to be!

[Mark1234]

On a small technical note, it isn't the shutter speed that's at issue(*) The 'venitian blind' effect is a side effect of the way the sensor chip is read - it's known as rolling shutter:

CMOS type chips are read 'line at a time', in a a similar manner to the way a TV scans. So, for example, the top line is read, then a infinitesimal amount of time later, the second, third, etc., until the bottom is reached, then it wraps back to the top. Thus the bottom of the frame is captured some amount of time later than the top. If you pan rapidly sideways you may see a skew effect, vibration creates 'jelly wobbles', and props make venetian blinds because they're moving significantly in that scan time.

CCD chips are read differently - they have a 'global shutter'. The chip is switched on, then off, then read whilst off. As such, every pixel in the image is captured at the same time. This will stop the prop when the revolution is divides equally to the shutter frequency (usually about 30 frames per second), and make it turn forward/backward either side of that - a stroboscopic effect if you like. However it will not produce image distortion.

Personally I find the CCD effect far less intrusive. Sadly most video specific cameras are CMOS based these days.

(*) of course, if you slow the exposure down enough for the prop to move significantly during the time the shutter is 'open', the prop will blur, and neither of these effects will show...

[IO540]

There is more to it, but I don't know the answer :)

My G10 camcorder has a "CMOS" sensor but has manually selectable shutter-priority shutter speeds, from something like 1/1000, through 1/120 (the fastest which eliminates prop effects), down to some very low figures. Yet it certainly doesn't have a mechanical shutter; it is totally electronic.

The bullet cameras suffer the ghastly prop effects because their shutter speed is extremely high - of the order of 1/5000 in bright light.

[Mark1234]

Neat little video:
17PSgsRlO9Q

[fixed embedding - thanks]

No modern video camera has a physical / mechanical shutter - it's all achieved by switching of photosites etc. The physical layout is that the CCD construction allows for 'buffer' sites alongside the photo sites. Logically speaking, the chip is activated, then switched off, and the results buffered, then the read/conversion process to get the data off the chip takes place.

Now, I oversimplified the rolling shutter a bit in my earlier post - I'm obviously not going to get away with that.. so:

The actual CMOS capture process is: row is reset, row is 'activated', <pause to capture>, row deactivated, row read off. My understanding is that each process 'scans' down the chip. So, if you have a slow shutter speed, the 'activate' scan will have reached the bottom before the 'deactivate/read' scan starts at the top. If the shutter speed is fast the activate scan is 'chased' down the chip by the deactivate, the collection phase is shorter than the scan, so the scan part is very significant wrt to the overall exposure.

In the first case, skew/wobble will be minimised, in the second maximised. However, the issue is also significantly affected by the speed at which the scan progresses. That is down to the sheer amount of data to be read (more megapixels=bad), and the rate at which the scan can proceed (basically quality of the circuitry).

Given the basics of exposure, I see no reason why a bullet cam would be running a faster shutter speed than a 'proper' camera, in fact quite the opposite (but I will admit that is an opinion on my part, if a somewhat educated one). Also in my opinion, the likely reason why cheap bullet cams skew badly is because they aren't running expensive to make, highly optimised sensor chips, the 'scan' process is slower, skew is greater..

To which: Why CMOS? CCD chips require a lot of ancilliary circuitry and power to drive them, and process the signals. CMOS chips allow you to build it all on one die, integrate the processing, and require less power. Economy, plain and simple..

[It flies]

[er, ok.. what did I do wrong with the embedding?]Just hit the Youtube button and insert only the video identifier (the code after the equal sign, 17PSgsRlO9Q in this case) between the tags and not the complete link. This works every time:

17PSgsRlO9Q

Apparently Panasonic is working on a global shutter 4/3 (CMOS?) camera. That should get rid of the jello/skew problem:

43 Rumors | Blog | (FT3) GH3 with global shutter? (+ more rumor tidbits) (http://www.43rumors.com/ft3-gh3-with-global-shutter-more-rumor-tidbits/)

[IO540]

You don't need a global shutter to get rid of the prop totally.

I can upload a video showing the G10 at 1/120 and it is perfect.

Got the last of the "95% bollox" JAA-crap IR exams tomorrow so won't do it tonight (need to edit away some irrelevant stuff which makes it very long).

Global shutters are desirable for different purposes, where you have object motion relative to the camera and you are trying to avoid artefacts on the moving object while showing the moving object. To get rid of the prop in flying videos, you just need a slow shutter speed, which means you need a camera which has a means of selecting that. You are not trying to show the prop at all.

[stiknruda]

Thanks to It Flies!!

Vid from Drift HD170 Stealth - 2 cams attached to different parts of the airframes.

MRfLADYAhqk


We are delighted with these little cameras and they come with a variety of mounts that are easy to adapt to mounting onto the Pitts Special.

Enjoy

[IO540]

The basic quality is good, no doubt helpted by not shooting through any windoze :)

But are you happy with the fisheye-like distortion?

I have just edited a little clip and put it here (http://www.zen74158.zen.co.uk/videos/canon-legria-g10-no-prop-effect.m4v) (5MB, Iphone4 1mbit/sec MP4).

FWIW, Vimeo is far better than Youtube. YT is difficult for uploading large files; it tends to crash during the upload.

[Mark1234]

Of course you can eliminate the prop - as I agreed earlier. However, that has it's own cost; it probably doesn't eliminate jello wobble from vibration (evident in the wildcats footage), or if it does, it will be at the expense of blurring the image. You can either capture motion (not that anyone really wants the prop), and put up with the artefacts, or blur out all the motion.

Personally I find that whole family of artefacts extremely irritating, but maybe that's the photo/video nerd in me. There's also the point that shutter priority video is a pretty high end feature. End of the day, you pay your money and take your choice.. I wanted a global shutter on my compact still/video camera.

Completely agree wrt vimeo.

[stiknruda]

Fish eye - the DRIFT cam has three settings, 720d gives you 170degs (fish eye) 1080d gives you 128degs and SD - and we've not tried that one yet as we're not sure what it gives!

We're still experimenting with settings and with cam positions but we do like the flexibility of mounts given we can and do pull and push +6g -3g :for more detail our web site has the gen on mounting them;

http://www.wildcaterobatics.com


We've just secured some professional video expertise to do ground to air so will know learn more in the next couple of weeks.

One of the flying comics is lying on the table and the back page ad shows Harry M punting the basic Nflight at £240 - that seems quite expensive:E

[IO540]

However, that has it's own cost; it probably doesn't eliminate jello wobble from vibration

Indeed. The G10 video I posted doesn't wobble - because it was handheld. For any suction cup mount one needs anti-vibration "something" to decouple the camera from the airframe. I am making up a mount using four of the sorbothane bushes I posted a link to earlier. It took a while to find a US outlet willing to ship to distant foreign lands :)

I don't know what is the cheapest camera with shutter priority, but high-end prosumer camcorders go for a few hundred quid on Ebay, though most of them will be the DV tape models which can't record for more than an hour (on their own).

[It flies]

The Canon clip looks good but a full prop arc isn't allways the desired effect. I have a Panasonic GF1 which does nice 720p video and has a slider that adjusts dept of field (aperture) for video capture. This has the side effect of changing the shutter speed. That allows me to a certain extent to choose the amount of prop blur in the video.

It's also possible to hack it and gain full manual control of the movie mode and up the bitrate to full HD 1080p. I haven't tried this yet and it might not work on all camera's because Panasonic tried to block the hack in later firmware versions. I paid 399 euro's for my GF1 including the excellent 14-45 stabilized lens.

I like the video stiknruda. I hope to join the band of Pitts drivers in the not too distant future. This forum needs more aerobatic content. :ok:

[IO540]

You can't eliminate the prop arc because the blade passage will (as a minimum) reduce the light passing through by some 1/10. This loss of light will always show.

With a 2-blader and a clever camera you could "shoot through the prop" as per WW2 :) No idea if anybody does it but with a custom CCD camera it would be trivial.

Maybe a faster (than 1/120) shutter will produce the "classic plane spotter" look where you see a 30-degree arc on each blade. But I have never seen that on a video I did. With a DSLR (still pic) it is easy, of course.

There is also a tradeoff between shutter speed and rendition of moving imagery. If the shutter is too slow, you get the "movie effect" where the whole scene is blurred anytime anything moves. Some people like that, of course, and pay extra for it :) At the other extreme you can have zero blur of moving scenes (like in the CGI movies e.g. Shrek) but that is awfully hard to do within any real world bit rate.

[It flies]

Yes, the "classic plane spotter" look describes best what I tried to achieve in video. A few weeks ago I shot a few clips of a Yak-52 doing an engine run and I did achieve this effect. It's mostly spoiled though by some rolling shutter effect which slightly "bends" the blades. And the tricky part is to match shutter speed with changes in rpm or else the 30-degree arc will start to rotate. The GF1 has a (still image only) shutter speed preview that shows the amount of prop blur on the back screen before the photo is taken.

This strobing effect can lead to strange variations. A couple of years ago I shot a short video with a digicam of a rotary engine (the aircraft engine, not the Wankel car engine) with a two blade prop and nine rotating cylinders. At a certain rpm the prop appeared to turn the opposite direction of the cylinders although they are permanently fixed together.

[hum]

Currently experimenting with one of these - amazing quality for around £30

&#x202a;Full review of the Real 720p HD 808 Key Ring Spy Camera&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube
--

[The500man]

5pOTnVG2p3w

NFlightcam+ apparently doesn't have the prop-effect problem! It just costs more money....

[IO540]

They claim so, but the actual movie clips they put on have plenty of bad prop effects :)

[Mark1234]

Not to mention the 'aviator lens' looks like it's probably just an ND filter (score one for IO540...) I'll be sticking with my CCD based compact for now!

[pulse1]

This forum needs more aerobatic content.

How about this:

Aerobatics over Compton Abbas Airfield - YouTube

[It flies]

Yes, a nicely edited video. See, the forum is looking up already. :)

I hope to lend a Contour next week and see what the quality is.

[dobbin1]

This video of Justyn flying our Extra was shot with a keyfob camera which cost less than £10. Quite impressive quality I think, although low res.

Extra 300L Display by Justyn Gorman - YouTube

[It flies]

An impressive display and I like the different perspective. The quality is not bad at all for a £10 investment. The HD version suggested bij Hum is probably worth the extra £20.