Qantasanswers.com.au

[chockchucker]

Appears QF will go to any length to spin lies and half truths to the public. Their new website Qantasanswers.com.au is a desperate attempt to reverse the tide of public opinion that is swelling against them. Still using a faulty calculator to further their cause it would seem.....:yuk:



No doubt the website setup cost and maintenance will be billed to mainline international! :ugh:

[Budfox]

That website just looks like a desperate bid to try and stem the tide of support in favor of the Pilots.
A lot of contradictions in and around those figures they just banded
together :suspect:

[chockchucker]

Situation summed up superbly, as ever, by Ben Sandilands this morning........



Qantas goes to war with its pilots on social media and shoots down John Travolta
August 3, 2011 – 8:20 am, by Ben Sandilands

John Travolta is the early casualty in the social media dogfight that has broken out between Qantas management and its pilots.

The faded movie star’s main gig, the cabin safety video shown on Qantas flights, is no more. Travolta had been used as an ‘ambassador’ for Qantas for many years as a celebrity figure who also happens to own and pilot a vintage Qantas liveried Boeing 707-138B.

In the safety video Travolta says “There’s no-one I’d rather have at the controls than a Qantas pilot”.

Uh oh. That’s precisely the point being made by Qantas pilots in the statement they make from the cockpit on Qantas services in support of their industrial dispute with management. So, Good-night John!

Simultaneously Qantas management has taken to social media in its dogfight with the pilots, launching qantasanswers.com.au in response to qantaspilots.com.au.

Qantas is announcing wide spread restructuring of its operations on August 24 and its refusal to negotiate job security clauses for long haul pilots who are trained by Qantas and based in Australia under Australian terms and conditions is at the heart of the dispute.

The Australian and International Pilots Association said this morning that it would link its site to the Qantas management site on the various points of difference that have flared concerning the future of the airline, and their jobs, with a view to improving the public debate.

[tail wheel]

Qantas’ market share of international flights to and from Australia has also declined significantly - from 35 per cent to 18 per cent.

What an odd admission??? Surely market share is a function of appropriate routes, schedule, tariff, marketing and service?

How can three non "front office" unions be held accountable or responsible for a decline in market share? :confused:

[DirectAnywhere]

From the three seperate "union" pages on the website:

Qantas values our long-haul pilots and the important work they do

Qantas values our licensed engineers

Qantas values our ground staff and the important work they do

I feel SO valued.

QANTAS "values" all its employees and is willing to go to all the hassle and expense of getting a year 12 IT graduate to do a quick cut-and-paste on three seperate pages to explain to the public how valued we all are.

Wow. I feel the love.

[my oleo is extended]

Hiarious.That website would have to one of the most desperate, poor attempts at the 'blame game' I have seen by any organisation in recent years.
The truth remains this - 'you can't polish the turd'! No matter how hard management try - by rubbing it, polishing it, buffing it and manipulating it , it still remains a turd. These fools just do not get it.

In terms of 'threat to business', why is there not a subheading on the site called 'Management', with a listing of the real money the execs are pulling out of the business to line their pockets, freight fixing scams and other assorted illegal activities which have resulted in fines and punitive damages awarded, management decisons contributing to company losses and the list goes on ?
It is time to reply by setting up a mirror image website which counteracts each lie, misinterpretation, distorted story and falsehood being peddled by a management team crumbling at the seam. Time to up the ante, take the fight to them and fight this one to the death. The real issues are not frontline staff, unions or anything of the sort, the problem is management.

35 000 associated emloyee's can do it ! If every union member chipped in $50.00 into an organised fund we can beat these clowns at their own game through media exposure, websites, Youtube, twitter and Face-book. The time has arrived for ALL employees (except management and Ken Borough), the public, the unions and any other supporters to band together, one united group fighting together.

As has been previously stated, a 90 year icon has been wrecked in 2 years (although the destruction really started after Mr Bowtie took his millions and ran).

[DEFCON4]

Management are playing catch up not only with their business model but also
in the war against their employees.
Ultimately the cost of the war will be greater than the cost of conciliation.
All this is about proving they know what they are doing and saving face.In short.....sheer bloody mindedness.
An old alpha male (Clifford)trying to hang on and failing dismally
When Clifford left Rio Tinto profit and share priced soared

[standard unit]

Recent admissions from Qantas mismanagement confirm that [measured] passenger satisfaction with the flight attendant group is at the highest level in Qantas's history.

So where does the problem lay I wonder........ :rolleyes:

If every union member chipped in $50.00 into an organised fund we can beat these clowns at their own game through media exposure, websites, Youtube, PPRuNe and FacePPRuNe.

Where do I pay?

[chockchucker]

How can three unions be held accountable for a decline in market share?


Because Tail Wheel, in the deluded world of Qantas Management, anything bad that happens is never their fault. Rather it MUST be the fault of 'those employees' and their pesky unions standing in the way.:ugh:


And everything good that might occur is definitely due to their 'great vision and skill'. :ugh:

[ANCDU]

Very predictable even by Qantas standards. Just goes to show that public perception towards the current industrial actions is swinging rapidly in the workers favour.

Everyone I speak to about this is concerned about the future of the company, with a lot of people disgusted at the way the employees are being treated at the moment. Many have voted with their feet to Virgin.

This tit for tat reply by Qantas is making them look very unprofessional, something that has no place in aviation. Whoever is running the Qantas PR machine at the moment should have a very easy job, but they are making a serious mess of it.

[Mstr Caution]

Qantas initially stated the pilots wage claim was 26%
Qantas pilots strike back over claims of image damage | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/businessold/qantas-pilots-strike-back-over-claims-of-image-damage/story-e6frfh4f-1226035656773)


Now Qantas is stating it's only 2.5%
Qantas Answers - Australian and International Pilots Association (http://www.qantasanswers.com.au/pilots-union)

So who's been misleading the public?

[assasin8]

I'm with you DirectAnywhere...

Certainly been feeling the "love" for a while now... Don't forget the pet names that show the affection management has for us... "rogues" and "kamakazies"...

Oh and I almost forgot about my free coffee voucher, to celebrate the Birthday Bash! It was of such sentimental value that I never spent it, but had it framed and is sitting proud on the wall, next to the jousting sticks!

There was that instantaneous pay rise to $350000 and I believe we are negotiating a further pay rise of some $200000!

They certainly know how to reward valued and loyal staff...:*

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

You've got them rattled guys. Keep it going.

Rumour is Joyce to announce on the 24th that he's stepping down in December. Health issues will be the official line.

[aveng]

Qantas values its employees - its true - fly to bangkok and negotiate a replacement value!:ugh:

[my oleo is extended]

Rumour is Joyce to announce on the 24th that he's stepping down in December. Health issues will be the official line.
Now now, do not tease us !!
Health issues you say?
Strained hip from carrying a grossly overweight wallet ?
Bulging disc from straining to pick up that fat paycheck monthly ?
Skinned palms from all the Hi-5's, backslapping and general frivolity undertaken every time a KPI bonus is received ?
Perhaps he caught Hendra virus after sitting on the same chair that Darth used to sit on ?
Internal haemorrhage from an injury sustained falling on his own sword ?

Good riddence if it is true.

[breakfastburrito]

Do not make a direct link to the site, this will move it up the google search rankings, we don't want that. If you are going to reference it, always refer to it as:

qantas answers [dot] com [dot] au

& never provide a direct link on any social media or other forums.

The google algorithm works by the number of pages that link to it, and the number of times a web site is mentioned on other web sites. The more frequently something appears, the higher it moves up the ranking to the top of the search answers. The best thing to do is simply forget it exists and reference it as infrequently as possible - don't forward it on to your friend family or colleagues.

[King William III]

Rumour is Joyce to announce on the 24th that he's stepping down in December. Health issues will be the official line

In this little orange man's humble opinion, Joyce is not the primary problem.
Clifford and his cronies on the board are the problem, Joyce is just doing what he's told….as usual.

[rodchucker]

And dont forget Buchanan, he is the one out there all the time with the spin and from all appearances deceptions such as NZ contracts, pilot skills, Thai subsidiaries etc etc etc.

The cronies underneath them will dissolve into a puddle once the power base of Clifford, Joyce and Buchanan are neutered.

Everyone keep up the support for Xenaphon (did it yesterday) and keep countering the spin. He clearly has an exocet missile in his pocket if those Thai FA were dismissed as reported and just wait for Buchanan to say, "not our employees and we did not make that decision". Shameful when they were flying in Australia.

[Budfox]

If every union member chipped in $50.00 into an organised fund we can beat these clowns at their own game through media exposure, websites, Youtube, PPRuNe and FacePPRuNe.

Likewise, where do we pay ???
Dont even work for Qantas but im sure I can even convince Mrs Fox to cough up some $$$ with me and try and save Qantas. :ok:

[King William III]

It would be quite funny to see a website set up to raise money to 'fight' Clifford et all on behalf of the Qantas brand and see the Australian public chipping in to the fight!!

SaveQantas.com.au perhaps?

Here's a couple of sites i found to visit while we wait for it….

DontFlyJetstar - A place to share your Jetstar complaints (http://www.dontflyjetstar.com/)

We could also get this one up the Google rankings by 'talking' about it a lot…

www.Facebook.com/pages/Jetstar-Sucks (http://www.facebook.com/pages/JETSTAR-SUCKS/132886286742809)

[Oldmate]

I guess the address qantaslies.com.au was unavailable?

[Jackneville]

'Threat to business'.......how about $200,000,000.oo in fines and still counting..........FFS, the staff do a great job, best they can, so do middle management........the greatest threat to the existence of QF is senior managenent and the board, and guess what, The Emperor has no clothes......everyone knows it because (excuse my mixed metaphors)
you can fool ALL of the people only Some of the time......

[SpannerTwister]

I guess the address qantaslies.com.au was unavailable?

As was the website WeHateOurStaff.com :ugh:

ST

[Oldmate]

Maybe just a coincidence, but putting up a website explaining how bad they are at managing an airline seems to have corresponded to a 5 cent slide in the share price.

[my oleo is extended]

Maybe just a coincidence, but putting up a website explaining how bad they are at managing an airline seems to have corresponded to a 5 cent slide in the share price.
The DOW dropped 240 points overnight, Gold is going through the roof and the reality is that airline shares are NOT a safe investment especially when the airline is run by, well, what can I say !
Around 2% was sliced off the share market overnight and make no mistake, Obama was absolutely right this week decribing the US problems as 'economic armageddon'. Shares in airlines are heading in one direction folks......

[Long Bay Mauler]

How did Qantas manage to make record profits a few years ago in such a declining market?

And it wasn't like the executives bonuses and salaries were declining to match the said market share. :hmm:

[Long Bay Mauler]

We are the only major airline in the world to conduct aircraft heavy maintenance in Australia. In contrast, our competitors, such as Virgin, Emirates and Etihad, do all of their heavy maintenance offshore.



Considering they are ALL foreign owned airlines,I am not surprised they don't do their heavy maintenance in Australia. In fact, they ALL do their heavy maintenance offshore,IN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES.

Plus the site should differentiate between Virgin Atlantic and Virgin Australia when making claims on their site.

[my oleo is extended]

How did Qantas manage to make record profits a few years ago in such a declining market?
And it wasn't like the executives bonuses and salaries were declining to match the said market share. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/yeees.gif
As a business they have turned some nice profits. I am not going to comment overall as to whether people should invest or not. On a personal note I don't invest in airlines. But have they paid dividends of late? Is the share price higher now than it was in 1996 ?

Gold chart below (2000 -2011) C/O kitco

http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/au00-pres.gif

The above jump in gold value has increased about as much as QF executive bonuses !! Within 12 months gold will be $2000.00 per ounce, what will QF's share price be ?
Tailwheel, you are an astute individual, would you be able to bookmark a calendar diary entry and we can re-visit this thread in 12 months time, just for sh#ts and giggles ??

[tail wheel]

My Super lost $5,000 in the last three days, thanks to the impact of the US economy and incompetance of US politicians - that appear to be even more incompetant than Australian politicians, if that is remotely possible! :{

Tipped the maximum $100K into my super in the last two years, over 30% of which has disappeared into roof batts, school halls and other frivolous Government projects (via the Super input tax) and into stock losses - including Qantas shares - that my Super fund invests in. :{

Retirement just moved another decade away! :*

I simply do not understand how any company can publicly confess:

Qantas’ market share of international flights to and from Australia has also declined significantly - from 35 per cent to 18 per cent.

Then blame it on three unions whose members have no say in deciding the factors which must have contributed to that decline? :confused: We are not talking profit or yield here (which would be impacted by operating costs including staff salaries) but bare, factual, competitive market performance which is what Management are employed to exploit, build and grow.

Is that not a blatant management confession of their own failure to adequately manage and grow their business? Surely the Australian public are not so gullible they buy the cr@p that loss of market share is a direct result of unions asking for job security for their Members? :confused:

I am not a union man but I certainly understand QF staff and their union's desire to ensure our national icon airline always calls Australia home. :ok:

Qantas last share sale $1.795. Cheap as chips, go buy a few! :D J P Morgan and HSBC must be feeling investor heat for their QAN investments?

Tailwheel, you are an astute individual, would you be able to bookmark a calendar diary entry and we can re-visit this thread in 12 months time, just for sh#ts and giggles ??

I suggest you re-visit this thread on 25 August?

Mod's aren't allowed to post personal opinions. Disregard all the above and I'll crawl back into my box! :E

[TIMA9X]

Qantas’ market share of international flights to and from Australia has also declined significantly - from 35 per cent to 18 per cent.What bugs me as well, does my head in, every man and his dog can quote these figures, they have been relentlessly pushed by the Q PR department since the "International Division" all of a sudden started under-performing.:suspect: (miraculously overnight) as much as they did defending the John Travolta safety video saying incidently, ''There's no one I'd rather have at the controls than a Qantas pilot.''


Now JT is in the "Q PR school of big ideas" dumpster. It feels like the time when Kerri Packer said "you only get one Alan Bond in your business life" after selling Channel 9 and buying it back again soon after at a fraction of the price."

I wish these smart guys in the room would put as much effort in making pretty fact less web sites, running the product down and instead start concentrating on running the business.

The guys & girls running SQ EK & CX must be thinking, "you only get one Alan Joyce in your business life."

They say, history is prone to repeating itself, the thought did cross my mind, "one Alan went down the river," what if the other Alan ...... nah, wishful thinking.:rolleyes:

[Mud Skipper]

My wife has decided that she cannot watch Qantas be destroyed without giving a fight. In the last few days she has emailed Nick Xenephon thanking him for his work, local members encouraging them to support Xenephon's private members bill, Peter Cosgrove with questions, posted a more than honest comment on qantaslies to give them some feedback on their website and encouraged her family members to do the same.

She wants to encourage all partners to do the same.

[flying-spike]

"Qantas values our long-haul pilots and the important work they do

Qantas values our licensed engineers

Qantas values our ground staff and the important work they do "

Of course they do, just not very highly!

[TIMA9X]

As requested, I have posted these again for the people who didn't see it as the thread it was on was deleted. After reading what has been said on here I thought this was the appropriate place to put it. The first one is the spin the staff has to put up with when they watch the news on the ABC after a hard day at work.
XKSD9aeZ0ho
The second one makes you feel better
hgBGwa41C1o

[my oleo is extended]

"Qantas values our long-haul pilots and the important work they do
Qantas values our licensed engineers
Qantas values our ground staff and the important work they do "
Of course they do, just not very highly!
You forgot;
"Qantas values our executive remuneration packages inclusive of OTP bonuses, KPI bonuses, huge salaries, consultancy fee's (rumoured) , retention bonuses, sign on bonuses, and executive share allocation".
And ,
"Qantas will not, has not and does not value Wirthless hairstyle".

[aviationboy]

What a pathetic website! Shame on you Qantass!

AIPA wants to force all Qantas affiliate airlines, including Jetstar and Jetconnect, to pay their pilots the same premium rates and conditions as Qantas pilots.

Premium rates? How about FAIR and REASONABLE rates? NZD$65,000 for an a320 f/o is NOT reasonable!!!!

[Angle of Attack]

Wow!

I am actually quite surprised as to how pathetic the site is! It is so blatant its almost a comedy, definitely it was rushed into production, a teenager could develop a better site than that one. Looks like their polling is showing the tide is not with management!

[Shark Patrol]

I notice that, unlike the AIPA website, there is no provision for discussion boards or online comments so that their LIES can be responded to in full public view. This is typical of the arrogance of Qantas management where the information flow is only one way. WE TALK - YOU LISTEN!!

Was looking forward to really ripping in to some of the BLATANT lies on this site like "All Qantas flights are flown by Qantas pilots". What about JETCONNECT you LIARS??!!?



There is provision for email feed back at the foot of the home page.

There is not a provision to leave on line comments.

Tail Wheel

[ohallen]

Mudskipper,

Well done to the Mrs and all power to her, these people are playing with everyone's lives and so far seem to be getting away with it.

I am only slf and wish there was more that I could do as I detest blatant dishonesty which is being peddled now by the morally corrupt.

Hope the wife trawled through the General's speeches (easily found on net) because there sure are some telling statements in there that should be trotted out now.

I know he is only one on the Board but surely with the contradictions that exist now he has to decide whether at a personal level he can actually live with the decisions that have been made. If he cannot, then he should WALK.

If he doesn't, then he is being hypocritical and never for a moment have I thought that up until now as even a possibility.

Directors fees only cover rental of the body/mind not ownership.

Time for some individuals to assess their own roles in this whole mess.

[Jack Ranga]

I'd suggest that the Qantas bull**** site will be viewed by the majority of Australians for what it is, complete bull**** and company whinging.

We as a nation are pretty f@#king stupid sometimes but one thing we are is cynical.

You boys are doing a pretty good job. I don't know of any company with any integrity that would start a website like that. They are obviously ****ting themselves :ok:

Go hard boys :ok:

[600ft-lb]

A bit of digging reveals who is doing this for Qantas.
Domain Nameqantasanswers.com.au Last Modified25-Jul-2011 05:54:10 UTC Registrar IDMelbourne IT Registrar NameMelbourne IT (http://www.melbourneit.com.au/) Statusok RegistrantSTW COMMUNICATIONS GROUP LIMITED Registrant IDABN 84001657370 Eligibility TypeCompany Registrant Contact ID22027O1328524 Registrant Contact NameSTW COMMUNICATIONS GROUP LIMITED Registrant Contact [email protected] Tech Contact ID22028T1328524 Tech Contact NameEmma Horne Tech Contact [email protected] Name Serverb.ns.zerigo.net Name Serverc.ns.zerigo.net Name Servera.ns.zerigo.net

STW group owns Ogilvy Public Relations Australia - public relations companies, public relations firms, public relations agency, public relations, PR, public relations jobs, public relations internships, public affairs (http://www.ogilvypr.com.au/) that did the iconic campaign's for Qantas such as STW Group - What Works (http://www.stwgroup.com.au/what-works/default.aspx?tag=1058)
QANTAS - I STILL CALL AUSTRALIA HOME

Tugging on the heart strings one year, lying about your staff the next.

[TIMA9X]

600ft-lb great digging sir,
and they got paid for that cr*p?
No brains, happy to be without them!

[Jabawocky]

Qantas’ market share of international flights to and from Australia has also declined significantly - from 35 per cent to 18 per cent.

Tail Wheel and all the viewers. This statement may well be true, but over what time period and what has happened to total numbers.

I wonder if the Qantas GROUP still moves the same number, or more, or less passengers.

The truth maybe the pie is twice as big, and they still move about the same number, just managemnt missed the growth boat (B777) and that is all the pilots and LAME's fault of course :ugh:

So who has the real numbers?

[breakfastburrito]

Jabawoky, you've just set yourself some homework over at:BITRE Aviation stats (http://www.bitre.gov.au/info.aspx?NodeId=49)

It shouldn't take too long to pull up some of the previous years and do a quick 5 and 10 year snapshot. Excellent question and observation.

edit: see the full international series & history International Airline Activity - Annual Publications (http://www.bitre.gov.au/info.aspx?ResourceId=204&NodeId=103) <=== broken down by carrier pdf & excel.

[BrissySparkyCoit]

You've got them rattled guys. Keep it going.

Rumour is Joyce to announce on the 24th that he's stepping down in December. Health issues will be the official line. ...was it November tht Ralph Noris said he'll be retiring from CBA? Lines up nicely.

[tail wheel]

Jaba

You may be on the wrong track?

The truth maybe the pie is twice as big, and they still move about the same number, just managemnt missed the growth boat (B777) and that is all the pilots and LAME's fault of course

The way I read it is that Qantas (not Qantas Group) market share has dropped 17%, from 35% to 18%. But how much of that "lost" 17% market share has been given to JetStar and other airlines in which Qantas has an interest?

That is, what is the total Qantas Group market share?

My assumption may or may not be correct?

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Jetstar make up about 8% of the figure so the Qantas Group International traffic is about 26-27% of all pax.

It was 35% 10 years ago.

They actually move more passengers today and have grown consistently, a convenient fact the always fail to mention.

[600ft-lb]

qantas all services fy 00
inbound
flights 12794
pax carried 2856917
seats available 3863289
load factor 74.0
outbound
flights 12864
pax carried 2813219
seats available 3874772
load factor 72.6

total all airlines fy00
inbound
flights 43624
pax carried 7977394 (qantas share 35.81%)
seats available 11440646
load factor 69.7
outbound
flights 43127
pax carried 7895660 (qantas share 35.6%)
seats available 11454946
load factor 68.9

qantas all services cy10
inbound
flights 13917
pax carried 2743701
seats available 3314572
load factor 82.8
outbound
flights 13914
pax carried 2684734
seats available 3355694
load factor 80.0

jetstar all services cy10
inbound
flights 6329
pax carried 1072877
seats available 1396897
load factor 76.8
outbound
flights 6340
pax carried 1095642
seats available 1400280
load factor 78.2

total all airlines cy10
inbound
flights 73126
pax carried 13596423 (jq 7.8% qf 20.1% total qf group 27.9%)
seats available 17784431
load factor 76.5
outbound
flights 72916
pax carried 13526138 (jq 8.1% qf 19.8% total qf group 27.9%)
seats available 17817628
load factor 75.9

Qantas’ market share of international flights to and from Australia has also declined significantly - from 35 per cent to 18 per cent. Our international business is forecast to lose $200 million for the 2010/2011 financial year.

cold hard facts.

seems to me that the only failure in this is management in failing to realise the MASSIVE growth over the last 10 years and do nothing about it except ferrying bogans around on $200 return tickets to japan and $1 tickets to bali.

[tail wheel]

So, my assumption is correct?

The Qantas Group market share has only dropped 6.1% over the past decade, from 35% to 27.9%, whilst the total market has grown 68%, from 16 million passengers, to 27.0 million passengers over the past decade?

Is Jet Connect included in the JetStar passenger statistics?

It appears the Qantas load factor has also risen over the past decade, from 71% to 81% (plus JetStar around 75%)?

Now, that is a bit naughty of Qantas! :=

[catter]

I suggest someone with some IT knowledge post a website called qantaslies.com.au
It should look exactly like their website, however have an extra tab with ‘management’. List the mistakes Qantas mismanagement has made over last few years. Include the things listed on the approapriate thread on pprune and also the inaccuracies in their previous quotes (such as the 26%/$200k payrise now saying 2.5%).

I can’t answer on behalf of the other unions but as far as I am aware these are some of the glaring lies about AIPAs demands:

What is the sticking point in negotiations with AIPA?
AIPA wants to force all Qantas affiliate airlines, including Jetstar and Jetconnect, to pay their pilots the same premium rates and conditions as Qantas pilots.
Wrong. Our claim is to have all Qantas codeshare flights in the Qantas group on the same if not better conditions than our EBA.

Qantas subsidiaries such as our low-cost carrier airline Jetstar have separate enterprise agreements with different pay rates and conditions to Qantas long-haul pilots. This reflects the different markets which they operate (e.g. low cost, leisure market) and cost structures of competitors.
No one is disputing that Jetstar has a separate EBA, however I would not call routes such as SYD-MEL, SYD-PER different markets. They are the exact same market that Qantas pilots operate on.
Perhaps this is another thing to put in the Qantas mismanagement thread. The genius of having your subsidiary compete with the main airline on trunk routes, but not allowing that the main airline to do the same on the subsidiaries routes ie SYD –Gold Coast.


Qantas-operated flights are flown by Qantas pilots.
All Qantas-operated flights are flown by Qantas pilots.
This includes every Qantas domestic flight and every Qantas international flight.
Union claims to the contrary are incorrect and misleading.
The biggest lie of them all!!!
All Qantas-operated flights are not flown by Qantas pilots. By Qantas pilots AIPA is talking about Qantas mainline EBA pilots. For the statement to be true Jetconnect and Cobram would have to be flown by Qantas pilots. They are not and the statement on their website is a complete and utter lie.


Why is AIPA making the “job security” demand?
The union appears to believe that increasing the cost base of Jetstar and other subsidiaries will lead to more opportunities for members.
They just don’t get it. Our job security demand is primarily so that we keep our jobs that they are determined to off shore. Also by insisting other QF group QF flight codeshares have EBA rates we are insisting that when you buy a Qantas ticket you are getting appropriately renumerated pilots.


What are the other demands from the pilots’ union? Here we go...
2.5 per cent increases in wages each year for the next three years.
Wow some accuracy!
Two free of charge international economy tickets each year (upgradeable to Business and First), in addition to already heavily-discounted airfares for them and their families, and at the expense of paying customers.
Conveniently left out the bit about the fact that this will replace the Long Service Leave scheme that already provides ‘free’ tickets every so often. (Taxes still paid by employee). This claim also has to do with the fact that we can no longer take our family/children away with us and know they have a seat as the option of having a confirmed seat (the jumpseat in the flight deck) is no longer available. They didn’t mention the fact that we are also asking for our position in the standby que to be put back to something relevant so 35 year Captains do not continue to be bumped by first year lower/middle management.
That Qantas funds two full time union officials at a cost of up to $1 million per year.
Not aware of that one so can’t comment.
Discounted membership to the Qantas Club for all pilots and their families.
No, the claim is Qantas Club membership at corporate rates. As opposed to nothing, as if this is going to cost them a fortune – it would probably make them money as not many people I know have a membership now. (Wonder if they have put that in as a positive ie income in their calculations!).
The claim on wages and travel would cost the airline around $150 million over the next four years.
Well we can argue that figure until the sun comes up and goes down again.


What are the current pay and conditions for Qantas long-haul pilots?
Qantas pilots are amongst the best paid in the world, receiving over 30 per cent more on average than a Virgin pilot flying similar aircraft.
Sorry didn’t realise that Virgin is the only airline in the world to compare us to. What about using BA or someone else you actually codeshare with.
The average Boeing 747 Captain earns approximately $350,000 per year (including superannuation and allowances). Is that so. Well ok, now do you wish to state that out of the 1,650 only 181 are 747 Captains. Some of them rotate so they will not all be getting $350,000 per year. So say 175. So only 10% of the people in this EBA are on the figures you quote. How about quoting a Boeing 767 Captain whose base wage is $215, 637. (Not including superannuation and allowances but even with Super at 9% and allowances at say 9k, the figure comes to ~$246,000).
The average Airbus A380 Captain earns almost $400,000 (including superannuation and allowances).
Again, last check two months ago there was 84 pilots on the A380. This means that only 5% of people in these negotiations are earning the figure quoted above. Lets quote more relevant groups.
Boeing 767 First Officers of which there are 128 or 8% of people involved. Assuming they all have 12 years of service (the don’t all have 12 years so this figure is the maximum Qantas pay). Their base wage is $150,911 plus superannuation and allowances say 170K. Bit different to $400,000 and there is more people on $150K-$170K involved in these negotiations then on $400K.
Airbus A330 First Officiers of which there are also 128 or 8% of people involved. Year 12 base wage $169,374.
Interesting they don’t talk the 767 and the A330 too much, is this because they are predominately flying the domestic ‘profitable’ arm of the business.
The average Qantas long-haul pilot is rostered to fly between 16-17.5 hours per week.
That figure is debatable, when Qantas has the establishment correct and the rosters are busy this figure is a lot higher.
They receive six weeks annual leave plus 25 sick leave days per year.
This is true, what isn’t mentioned is that this leave is assigned to us when we don’t want when times are quiet and hours are low and when things pick up we are not allowed access to it as they can’t spare the man power.
They enjoy heavily discounted staff travel including upgrades to Business and First.
Whilst it is discounted I believe the word heavily is a bit much. If you know when you are travelling and book in advance, there is of en a comparable full commercial confirmed fare available. This travel is standby only so as good as useless during busy holiday periods.


What would agreeing to AIPA demands mean for passengers?
The union’s demands would impact on passengers as much as they would impact Qantas’ business.
If Qantas was to ever concede the union's demands it would drive up airfares and would result in Qantas flying to fewer destinations.
Yep the impact on passengers would be that if they bought a ticket on a Qantas flight they would know that the pilots up the front are appropriately renumerated and not on some dodgy unsafe foreign contract. ‘Result in Qantas flying to fewer destinations’ – I think Qantas management is accomplishing this aim rather well themselves with no input from the union.


The funny thing is that an insulting website full of lies such as the one Qantas has set up and their attitude towards me and my colleagues just strengthens my resolve.

Engineers and workers from TWU feel free to put your side of the story down to counteract these lies.

[Fliegenmong]

Quote:

"The DOW dropped 240 points overnight, Gold is going through the roof and the reality is that airline shares are NOT a safe investment especially when the airline is run by, well, what can I say !"

Gold shines as world woes mount (http://www.theage.com.au/business/gold-shines-as-world-woes-mount-20110429-1e0lw.html)


Gold no longer plays a significant role in the international financial system,'' Mr Costello was widely quoted as saying. ''One holds it for purposes of diversification.''
Fourteen years and a healthy dose of hindsight later, gold has more than tripled its value against the Australian dollar, and almost quintupled against the ailing US dollar.

Sure he was our greatest treasurer right? What friggin foresight he had..extraordinary...now his mates have to offshore rather that put you on 'Work choices' contracts....at least you have (or you all seem to refer to) FWA PIA, something you would not have had under a coalition gummint, in bed with unions such as the AMA (not that the AMA have anything to do with you, but somehow they are an 'acceptable' union...I know the anguish against the Silver Budgie after the year we cannot mention...and I have no reason to defend him.....but had they got their way, the (your) problem would not be offshoring jobs, it would be one of not having a facility such as FWA....which allows your current PIA.

.....unpalatable I know, but the Lib Nat Union would have stitched you all up way faster....and as the insulation bat, school hall program BS goes to show they would have been far more effective and efficient

I think Xenophon is doing a good job, despite my initial feelings hes just after his 15 mins.......Sure thing is though, I hear nothing from the coalition but silence....

[peuce]

Just some quick rounded figures from the passenger numbers ...

QF available Seats 2000

Out: 3.8m
In: 3.8m

QF available Seats 2010

Out: 3.3m
IN: 3.3m

JQ available Seats 2010

Out: 1.3m
In: 1.4m


Even with, roughly, an additional 1m seats in and out in 2010 ... they lost market share. Perhaps spreading themselves too thinly across 2 airlines had an effect.

And I hold you pilots and engineers personally responsible for that :*

[Bootstrap1]

Those pesky engineers and pilots, they have been foiling the dastardly plans of those arseholes in power.

[DutchRoll]

I can't believe they have posted my income as a mainline pilot on a website.

Now for the second time this year, I am going to have to explain to my wife which Swiss bank account the missing $1 million is in - the money I must have spirited away secretly over my 10 years in Qantas.

She didn't believe my protestations the first time. What the heck am I going to tell her now? :confused:

[Wally Mk2]

Hey 'Dutch' make sure all yr wives don't find out:E

Pilots & multiple marriages go hand in hand:E Like AJ & Juliar, Like Travolta & Scientology, like QF & J*..............:E

Wmk2

[my oleo is extended]

600ft-lb - Once again you prove your worth on Pprune.
I do have a hypothetical and rhetorical question however. Would it be out of line to encourage all businesses, the public,QF employees and family and friends to effectively 'black ban' the company that has put together that bull****e and wirthless webpage on behalf of QF ???
Just a hypothetical, and rhetorical question really.

Gold no longer plays a significant role in the international financial system,'' Mr Costello was widely quoted as saying. ''One holds it for purposes of diversification.''
Fourteen years and a healthy dose of hindsight later, gold has more than tripled its value against the Australian dollar, and almost quintupled against the ailing US dollar.Costello thought of nothing but his own ego and personal pride driven desires. The guy like many politicians was elected, hired and paid by the taxpayer to do a job. He did not do that job, but rather chose to focus on himself. The nauseating antics and weekly pissing contests played out on the 6 o'clock news between himself and Johnny Eyebrows is still vivid in my memory. Good riddence.
Oh yes, and when Costello did offload the majority of our gold, where or to whom did it go did it go to and at white price ? Not much out there in regards to record keeping to show where our billions actually went ?? Very interesting.

One the subject of OW does anyone know if she is single? I think she is pretty hot and am thinking of asking her out for a date! Probably wouldn't be seen dead with an impoverished pilot though. Damn!!
Ewwww. Gross ! Better shave her before you kiss her !!

[ohallen]

Oleo,

Same thought occurred to me...what would happen if the consumers all individually decided NOT to travel with QANTAS on 23 August (but ok with DJ) to show the Board what they think of the strategy and the Execs actions. That would sure piss on their parade when they tried to get media coverage the next day with all those photos of empty terminals.

Of course I am talking theoretical.

We need some philanthropist to take out a huge add saying HE/She WAS NOT TRAVELLING On 23 to support the QF workers and show what he thinks of what is happening.

[Fris B. Fairing]

http://www.adastron.com/aviation/vault/qf-lies.jpg

[fire wall]

As pointed out in my response on the "answers" website, had ASIC any teeth (read balls) then those responsible for the billing of J* services to the QF balance sheet would be brought to account and, in any other 1st world country, jailed.
How's them's for apples Olivia?

[Capt Kremin]

Qantas market share has declined to 18%


Latest BITRE figures (May 11) have QF's market share as 19.2% and rising from the nadir of 17.6% in January this year.
In fact the QF mainline market share is on an upswing.

[Angle of Attack]

What? Kremin don't spoil the show! They are languishing! How dare you say they are increasing market share! :ok:

[The Green Goblin]

Quote:
Qantas market share has declined to 18%
Latest BITRE figures (May 11) have QF's market share as 19.2% and rising from the nadir of 17.6% in January this year.
In fact the QF mainline market share is on an upswing.

Oh no, we can't have that! Better drop LA and fly direct to Denver with de ay twee aytees :8

[TIMA9X]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-w9_yBZRBDkw/TjuE3-c6CyI/AAAAAAAABIk/VYTlBBjte-w/s640/A-pilot-went-heaven-final.jpg

Well, it is Friday...

[Wally Mk2]

.............what a crack up :D:D:D

One could say time stands still for no man:E

Wmk2

[Whatsit Doingnow]

A bit of digging reveals who is doing this for Qantas.

Quote:
Domain Nameqantasanswers.com.au Last Modified25-Jul-2011 05:54:10 UTC Registrar IDMelbourne IT Registrar NameMelbourne IT (http://www.melbourneit.com.au/) Statusok RegistrantSTW COMMUNICATIONS GROUP LIMITED Registrant IDABN 84001657370 Eligibility TypeCompany Registrant Contact ID22027O1328524 Registrant Contact NameSTW COMMUNICATIONS GROUP LIMITED Registrant Contact [email protected] (Emailemma.horne%40stwgroup.com.au) Tech Contact ID22028T1328524 Tech Contact NameEmma Horne Tech Contact [email protected] (Emailemma.horne%40stwgroup.com.au) Name Serverb.ns.zerigo.net Name Serverc.ns.zerigo.net Name Servera.ns.zerigo.net
STW group owns Ogilvy Public Relations Australia - public relations companies, public relations firms, public relations agency, public relations, PR, public relations jobs, public relations internships, public affairs (http://www.ogilvypr.com.au/) that did the iconic campaign's for Qantas such as STW Group - What Works (http://www.stwgroup.com.au/what-works/default.aspx?tag=1058)

Thanks to 600ft-lb for the above, and it's interesting to note the man behind STW is of course John Singleton
from Wikipedia:
Singleton developed close ties with the Australian Labor Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Labor_Party) and created the advertising for Bob Hawke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Hawke)'s successful 1983 election campaign. John Singleton Advertising listed publicly, became the Singleton Group Ltd in 1996, then grew to become the STW Communications Group Ltd in 2002
and I just saw the new thread by Mr. Wobbles that made the penny drop and it all makes sense now:
GAAM, Fly Lease

Now to some fancy flying by a stellar cast of local investors who have been the force behind the country’s second-biggest aircraft leasing business Global Aviation Asset Management and have now managed to sell it to US-listed FLY Leasing for $US1.4 billion. FLY is the former Babcock and Brown aviation leasing business and boasts former B&B execs Trevor Lowensohn and Phil Brown as its advisors. The merry cast at GAAM cashing in on the deal include former Qantas boss Geoff Dixon, his former CFO and former Leighton CFO Peter Gregg, former Allco boss David Coe, John Singleton and private equity investor Mark Carnegie.

[breakfastburrito]

GAAM, Fly Lease

Now to some fancy flying by a stellar cast of local investors who have been the force behind the country’s second-biggest aircraft leasing business Global Aviation Asset Management and have now managed to sell it to US-listed FLY Leasing for $US1.4 billion. FLY is the former Babcock and Brown aviation leasing business and boasts former B&B execs Trevor Lowensohn and Phil Brown as its advisors. The merry cast at GAAM cashing in on the deal include former Qantas boss Geoff Dixon, his former CFO and former Leighton CFO Peter Gregg, former Allco boss David Coe, John Singleton and private equity investor Mark Carnegie.

He said that the company is aiming to maintain a 20 per cent share of the Asia Pacific low-cost carrier market and might need to have as much as 400 aircraft by 2020.

"The total (fleet size of) the low-cost carrier market (in Asia-Pacific) is about 450 aircraft today and we envisage it to grow to in excess of 2000 aircraft by the end of the decade," he said on the sideline of a media briefing in Singapore.

"To maintain 20 per cent market share by 2020, we need about 400 aircraft," Buchanan added without elaborating when the carrier will start making orders of those aircraft.
SMH: Jetstar to invest $470m in Singapore hub (http://www.smh.com.au/business/jetstar-to-invest-470m-in-singapore-hub-20110718-1hkun.html)

Who will lease the aircraft to the "Qantas Group". If it is not GAAM it will subsidiary of GAAM.

The picture becomes clearer. The big money is going to be made in the leasing of this 400 aircraft growth. This is why they need to abandon the international operations, to use the money to leverage into this massive growth.

The "Qantas Group" already appears to be controlled by GAAM. Has the "takeover" already occurred via this mechanism?

[Long Bay Mauler]

Has Geoff really left the building or is he a distant puppet master pulling the strings from afar?

:eek:

[TIMA9X]

Has Geoff really left the building or is he a distant puppet master pulling the strings from afar?
Good point, with all this talk about GFC2 over the past few days coming to a head, I believe anything (GD JS) & (LC & his round table, AJ, OW & BB) do will be heavily scrutinised as the market are much more savvy after the last GFC debacle. Too many CEOs used the GFC as an excuse to cut and slash everything leading to lower service levels in the service industries. Qantas is a fine example of this, still running with this mentality after all this time, other words, an unswerving negative relationship strategy towards its labour force . Why is this?

In today's business climate you would think the penny would drop with these strategist running the show, they should have woken up to this fact, airlines are a "people business" which requires motivated people. Being negative all the time has become "more of the same" for the staff and the companies customers regarding declining service levels.

People who live in SE Asia see Jetstar as a cheap version of Qantas anyway, the reality is, that's the way the Jetstar brand is sold in the travel agencies so why is it that the Q management need to give Jetstar priority over the Qantas brand?
It's daft! :(

[Angle of Attack]

Blind Freddie can see there is an intent to drive the QF brand down, I mean just look at all their aircraft! They are an embarrassment, obviously excluding some of the newer A330 and 737 and A380, (but almost everyone knows the A380 is a dud economically) There is a spider web of different interests here and I believe they are up to something as mentioned in the previous posts.

On the flip side I have heard about the Yen Men on the Narita runs and I actually travelled on the QF22 last week in business and all I can say it was woeful.. I had to pick my main meal selection about 4 minutes after I got to my seat and I needed to call an attendent for all of my 3 wine refills, the service was done and dusted in about an hour and did not see anyone for the next 5 hours (gone to bed) Then the flight attendant turned up with breakfast and poked me awake with no speech and waited for me to groggily get my seat organised while she shoved the tray down and rushed off.

I can easily say my next domestic flight out of Sydney was much more pleasant with the shorthaul cabin crew, a breath of fresh air.

I am not having a go at the senior longhaul cabin crew personally I just believe it is a symptom of QF's management disrespecting their employees and it is showing on the front line. AJ needs to go, he has basically done nothing, have a look at Air NZ and see how a great CEO operates mate!

Anyway thats my 3 Yens worth, still think something very fishy is going on behind the scenes, stay united pilots and dont cave in on their rumours! :ok:

[Race Bannon]

A good many of the crews on the QF22 are AKL based.
They are paid poorly and very overworked with little time at home.
Last time I operated this flight one of the CC was asleep on the jumpseat before we rotated.
Safety report written.
Shorthaul CC do not suffer the same fatigue levels as Longhaul.
Dont misunderstand.They work very hard but dont suffer from accumulated jet lag.
Qantas has LHR base and AKL base crews who are being exploited just like JetStar Cabin Crew.
It is very difficult to motivate people who are treated poorly,underpaid,undervalued and overworked

[unseen]

I must be among the minority as I don't 'know' that the A380 is an economic dud.

How does everyone else 'know' this?

[Sunfish]

Isn't it great when a plan comes together?

Now is the time to buy a blocking stake in Qantas if you can beat the Boyz -which I doubt.

[stubby jumbo]

It is very difficult to motivate people who are treated poorly,underpaid,undervalued and overworked

What an outstanding revelation RACE BARRON.

Key words are: treated poorly,underpaid,undervalued and overworked

But hey, this is the new age of internationalising business :yuk:
What is even more galling is to read is that Darth is back with his claw around the neck of the Rat.

This whole sorry mess is pathetic in the extreme. As one pax said to me yesterday when getting off a LAX -SYD sector.

Good Luck guys...........you're gonna need it:eek:

[ohallen]

If the Boyz are back lets hope or make sure the corporate cops are on the job with some serious will to expose these events.

There will be no stopping the outcry for round two if it ever happens.

[Long Bay Mauler]

Is it true that the B744 crew's have been told to throttle back on the AUS-LAX runs, so as not to overtake the A380?

[noip]

BuL .....

No .

The 744 might cruise ... maaybe .01 faster than the A380, the big killer is that the A380 can climb higher ... which for an equivalent mach number means that the cruise is slower. (it is reeeellllyy nice being able to climb above the pack) ..

For every situation, there are advantages and disadvantages ...

N

[fishers.ghost]

Share price at $1.69...its cheap
CC being recruited in Malaysia in anticipation of a base there
Rumoured closure of BNE and MEL CC bases
Dixon and cronies part of a cashed up group ready to pounce on aircraft leasing.
Jetstar expanding in Asia
Jetstar pilot shortage
Smoke and mirror financial circumstances of the Qantas Group
Big announcement on the 24th August
Will Senator X be able to save the day?
.......whose going to blink first before it all fits together ?

[1a sound asleep]

Do you remember being in 1998 and looking at Ansett and saying "whose going to blink first before it all fits together ?"

[TIMA9X]

Forgive me if this has been posted before somewhere else but I find this interesting,

Colonial buys 22.7m Qantas Airways shares | Business Spectator (http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Colonial-buys-227m-Qantas-Airways-shares-KEECX?opendocument&src=idp)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-R0OEFM4WRfM/Tj1pBZ1Q1-I/AAAAAAAABJM/H90UoSKMs1c/col-mut-buys-qantas%252520shares.JPG


which incidentally is part of the Commonwealth Bank. The thought did cross my mind, could this have anything to do with Sir Ralph Norris who has announced his departure from the CBA later this year? I know this is a wild shot but there is a connection on the Qantas board.... I wonder...


Qantas Board of Directors (http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/board-of-directors/global/en)
Independent Non-Executive Director

http://www.qantas.com.au/img/150x150/about-qantas/barbara-ward.jpg
Barbara Ward was appointed to the Qantas Board in June 2008.
She is a Member of the Safety, Health, Environment and Security Committee and the Audit Committee.
Ms Ward is Chairman of Essential Energy, a Director of a number of Brookfield Multiplex Group companies and O'Connell Street Associates Pty Ltd, and is on the Advisory Board of LEK Consulting.
She was formerly a Director of the Commonwealth Bank of Australia, Lion Nathan Limited, Brookfield Multiplex Limited, Allco Finance Group Limited, Record Investments Limited, Data Advantage Limited, Rail Infrastructure Corporation and Delta Electricity. She was Chairman of NorthPower and a Board Member of Allens Arthur Robinson.
Ms Ward was Chief Executive Officer of Ansett Worldwide Aviation Services from 1993 to 1998. Before that, Ms Ward held various positions at TNT Limited, including General Manager Finance, and also served as a Senior Ministerial Adviser to The Hon PJ Keating. my bold

[Joker89]

What's the breakup value. Ie value of Cash and other assets if sold off independently. That's prob what will drive a takeover.

[fl610]

I'll put up 50 bucks and I don't even like you buggas! :E However :''There's no one I'd rather have at the controls than a Qantas pilot.'':ok:

[Mstr Caution]

Sorry to bring up an old thread guys.

However, I was just trying to find some answers to a few nagging questions.

1. The exact number of passengers affected by the grounding of the Qantas fleet on 29.10.2011

2. Exactly how many flights were cancelled as a result of the grounding.

3. Exactly how many flights were delayed as a result of the grounding.

It seems the website www.qantasanswers.com.au has conveniently vanished?

As you all know, prior to 29.10.2011 it had been updated daily with the above figures as a result of all industrial action. Why no further updates?

:E

[Maxis]

There was also a keep qantas flying website that has also disappeared. These sites appeared at the top of google and newspaper searches for qantas for months until just after the 29th at which point they disappeared from searches.

[rmm]

Who'll get a bonus for this one,

Qantas attempt at Twitter promotion a PR disaster | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/news/qantas-attempt-at-twitter-promotion-a-pr-disaster/story-fn32891l-1226202446245)

Qantas attempt at Twitter promotion a PR disaster

By: Brendan Casey
From: Herald Sun
November 22, 2011 1:01PM

QANTAS' attempt at social media promotion has turned into a classic PR disaster, with users hijacking the promotional tag to insult the airline.

The airline’s official Twitter account asked its followers: "What is your dream luxury inflight experience? (Be creative!) Answer must include #QantasLuxury."

But things quickly turned sour as many Twitter users barraged the airline's account with negative submissions, as disputes with workers' unions drag on.

User smurray38 wrote “#qantasluxury is seeing your planes on Getaway not Four Corners”.

Another user Beta_Boy said “#QantasLuxury is grounding the fleet so I can fly with @VirginAtlantic instead”

“#qantasluxury is outsourcing your unionized workforce but keeping your marketing team,” said Obfusc8.

In the past week, Qantas hired four full-time social media monitors to keep tabs on what people are saying about it on Twitter and Facebook.

After this latest debacle, they may certainly have their hands full.

[hotnhigh]

No worries, just employ more media savvy managers.:D

[Sunfish]

The #QantasLuxury tab on Twitter is rather fun to read.

"I've been on airlines that never shut down dah dah......"

https://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23qantasluxury

Owned.


RT @kiwi_kali: #qantasluxury Somewhere in Qantas HQ a middle aged manager is yelling at a Gen Y social media "expert" to make it stop.

Shockwave Shockwave
Knowing they you can just call out "KYLIE!!" and all the Stewardesses will come running #qantasluxury

[TIMA9X]

#QantasLuxury Twitter campaign backfires on Qantas (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/qantas-makes-hash-of-tweet-campaign-20111122-1nsa4.html)
@GrogsGamut tweeted: "#QantasLuxury- when the passengers arrive before the couriers delivering the lockout notices do".

ABC radio's PM presenter Mark Colvin, @Colvinius said: "Getting from A to B without the plane being grounded or an engine catching fire. #qantasluxury".

Social media expert James Griffin from SR7 said that, by about 1pm, Australians were sending out 51 tweets a minute on the hashtag. Most of these were tweets making fun of the idea of #qantasluxury.

"Firstly, timing went completely out the window with this campaign," Mr Griffin said, referring to Qantas management walking away from negotiations with the Transport Workers Union and Australian, the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers' Association and the International Pilots Association yesterday.
"First and foremost, there should have been further consideration by the social media team about the sensitivities of the day," he said.

Read more: #QantasLuxury Twitter campaign backfires on Qantas (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/qantas-makes-hash-of-tweet-campaign-20111122-1nsa4.html#ixzz1ePaQpv31)

[Conductor]

I hope they are not paying too much for their social media strategists. Just another cost to attribute to long haul I guess.

[Angle of Attack]

Just one of the signs they are going to lose the war completely!
Idiots!

[stubby jumbo]

Just goes to show-that this airline is being run by a bunch of total AMATEURS.

Who in their right mind would have approved this total stuff up.:ugh:

The QF Brand is a total laughing stock.

Just try this simple test........-drop the "Qantas" word in a conversation.

Watch the response :{

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

I realise this clip has been done to death......but this is the latest version:O

qantas-twitter_downfall.wmv - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTCwPlWzZnQ&feature=youtu.be)

[Wally Mk2]

Tnxs 'stubby' for that link, had a good chuckle:ok:

I've mentioned QF a few times of late to friends etc wh know nothing of aviation during BBQ's functions or they have brought up the name QF & all still think that the unions are to blame...... sheeez the gen public are being seduced !!!!:ugh:


Wmk2

[Slasher]

& all still think that the unions are to blame...... sheeez the gen public are being seduced !!!!

Yeh well nothing's changed then and never will.

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

Quote:
& all still think that the unions are to blame...... sheeez the gen public are being seduced !!!!
Yeh well nothing's changed then and never will.
22nd Nov 2011 10:29

So what? This whole argument will be decided by FWA. The public don't care. They never did. And their opinion no longer counts. Move on everybody. :ugh:

[bakutteh]

Epic fail for Qantas Twitter competition


November 23, 2011, 5:24 am Rob Taylor Reuters
CANBERRA (Reuters) - Australia's Qantas Airlines has been left red-faced after an ill-timed public relations campaign and Twitter competition backfired, drawing thousands of angry responses.


http://l.yimg.com/ea/img/-/111123/qantassilhouettereuters257_17cnqtk-17cnqu9.jpg?x=120&sig=OwqY1s4APfGKV3coa0lD0g-- (http://l.yimg.com/ea/img/-/111123/qantassilhouettereuters257_17cnqtk-17cnqu9.jpg)



CANBERRA (Reuters) - Australia's Qantas Airlines has been left red-faced after an ill-timed public relations campaign and Twitter competition backfired, drawing thousands of angry responses.
Qantas on Tuesday invited users of the micro-blogging site to enter a "Qantas Luxury" competition, asking people to describe their "dream luxury in-flight experience" and possibly win a pair of Qantas first-class pyjamas and a toiletries kit.
The timing of the PR exercise was questionable, coming just a day after Qantas and its unions broke off contract negotiations and after Qantas grounded its fleet in late October, a drastic move that stranded thousands of angry customers.
PR experts said the campaign was perhaps Australia's greatest public relations failure and a classic example of the dangers of unpredictable social media.
"Epic PR fail, excellent case study in corporate cultural tone deafness. Simply don't get it," said social media commentator Peter Clarke.
Twitter user "stanofid" called the campaign the "Hindenburg of social media strategies."
Other unimpressed Twitter users set a stream of responses ranging from caustic jokes about the carrier to ordinary abuse.
Twitter user "ChanArmstrong" said Qantas luxury was "more than 3mins notice that the whole airline is on strike," while another user, describing themselves as "thesuspecto," said their answer was, "chose Singapore Air luxury instead."
Daniel Angus, using the Twitter name "antmandan," said Qantas luxury meant "being stranded on the other side of the world without warning when you just want to get home to your 10-month-old daughter."
Qantas last week hired four social media monitors to keep tabs on what people were saying about it on Twitter and Facebook after the fleet grounding. The carrier has also promised generous compensation for stranded passengers.
But Qantas put on a brave face, taking to Twitter again to quip on Tuesday, "at this rate our #QantasLuxury competition is going to take years to judge."
The discussion came as unions considered launching more disruptions to Qantas flights and the Australian government's industrial relations umpire began work to impose a new wage agreement between Qantas management and workers.
This is not the first time Qantas has been in hot water over its PR efforts. In August it was criticised for a competition asking Australian fans to pose as their favourite rugby player and two fans posed as Fiji-born Radike Samo in Afro wigs and black paint.
The airline was pelted by critics for that episode, but others and Radike himself said the fans were paying him a tribute.
(Reporting by Rob Taylor; Editing by Matt Driskill)

[Wingspar]

Now is their communications boss responsible for this?

I think their wirthless!

[Conductor]

The public don't care. They never did..

Not entirely true, which is why Qantas is copping so much stick.

And their opinion no longer counts.

Not true. Public opinion is a subtle but constant pressure on politicians. However I think political influence on FWA is limited. In an ideal world there would be none but in an ideal world FWA wouldn't involve ex-Freehill partners.

Move on everybody

Great idea, we never would have thought of doing that. :ugh: That's what we all want to do but we can only move on after the task at hand is dealt with fully and we can look back and say that we put forward our best case, regardless of the outcome. When the school bully comes around wanting your lunch money, you don't just give it to him.

[V-Jet]

C'mon guys! Credit where credit is due.

A farcical idea by an idiot is clearly made up for with this IFE triumph of QantasJetstar group:

Jetstar iPads for passengers | Flying high with Dolly (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/flying-high-with-dolly-20111117-1nkjq.html)

[WheelsandBrakes]

And here we have customers on the "premium" side of the airline stuck with Rockwell Collins.:}

[ANCDU]

So that is where the Ipads they earmarked for use in the Qantas fleet for EFB's went! Or did they send them to the pollies instead? :confused:

[ditzyboy]

The article incorrectly states Jetstar's attempt is a world first. SkyWork of Switzerland have been using iPads for over a year now.

iPad On Board (http://www.flyskywork.com/15-1-iPad-on-board.html)

[YPJT]

The "Hitler finds out" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTCwPlWzZnQ&feature=youtu.be) version. :ok:

[TallestPoppy]

That is a ripper!

[ferris]

Gold.
"Don't worry, Virgin are hiring."

[hoss]

Has anyone posted a funny cat video on t w i t t e r yet?

Hurry up;)

[TIMA9X]

The Qantas pyjamas campaign is a world wide smash hit in the press....

Daily Mail
Qantas left red-faced after Twitter promotion hijacked by disgruntled passengers

As if grounding the entire Qantas fleet and being hit by a string of safety failures wasn't enough, the beleaguered Australian airline has once again found itself in hot water after an innocent question posted on Twitter was hijacked by angry passengers.
Read more: Qantas Twitter faux pas leaves Australian airline red-faced | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2065235/Qantas-Twitter-faux-pas-leaves-Australian-airline-red-faced.html#ixzz1eb5Vg7uZ)
and
Qantas Twitter contest draws thousands of angry replies

A Twitter competition has drawn thousands of angry responses after Australian airline Qantas launched it amid a major labour dispute.
The airline asked people to describe a "dream luxury in-flight experience", offering Qantas gift packs as prizes.
But users of the micro-blogging service instead used the competition to vent their frustration with Qantas.
The contest ran a day after talks with unions broke down, and after Qantas grounded its entire fleet in October.
Thousands of passengers were stranded worldwide after the firm halted flights in an attempt to end months of strike action by workers angered by the firm's restructuring plans.
The "Qantas Luxury" promotion, launched on 22 November, quickly tapped into customers' ire (https://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23QantasLuxury).
and

Epic fail for Qantas Twitter competition - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/epic-fail-qantas-twitter-competition-072938013.html)CANBERRA (Reuters) - Australia's Qantas Airlines has been left red-faced after an ill-timed public relations campaign and Twitter competition backfired, drawing thousands of angry responses.
Qantas on Tuesday invited users of the micro-blogging site to enter a "Qantas Luxury" competition, asking people to describe their "dream luxury in-flight experience" and possibly win a pair of Qantas first-class pyjamas and a toiletries kit.
The timing of the PR exercise was questionable, coming just a day after Qantas and its unions broke off contract negotiations and after Qantas grounded its fleet in late October, a drastic move that stranded thousands of angry customers.
This twatter blunder just demonstrates how far removed the PR managers at Q are from their customers, more focused on appealing to the pollies in Canberra. Simply, they just couldn't see it happening, they don't understand the power of social media. "Banana's selling pyjamas" must be written in the Q employment criteria for these people holding PR positions.

Meanwhile on the same day over at the opposition it's all positive. Interesting what JB has to say

FGKUG1dTra8

Has anyone posted a funny cat video on t w i t t e r yet?It's all been done, the Q PR deparment creative team at work? :)

IytNBm8WA1c

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