Singapore LO CO

[cyn nickel]

See SIA's (I assume) Low Cost start up advertising in Flight for crews. Any information on Tand Cs, aircraft, routes etc.? Long haul Low Cost has got to be better than Lo Co bungee jumping. Night stops even!!

[vserian]

Saw the ad in flight international mag yesterday, Aircraft is B777 and they clearly stated that everything is in Local terms. They are planing to operate many flights into India and the far east to compete with other low cost airlines. Personally I dont think it will be worth jumping if you are currently well off on the B777 currently and I am sure that the $$$ would be way below the main SIA fleets.

[millerscourt]

No doubt if they are offering type ratings ( not seen the advert ) there will be a swarm of pilots prepared to take local terms just for a B777 rating though you have to stay almost 6 years and give a bank guarantee as well.

[Capetonian]

These might be of interest:

BBC News - Can 'no frills' work for longer flights? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14287579)
BBC News - How Air Asia founder Tony Fernandes' dream came true (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11647205)
BBC News - Budget air carriers multiply in Asia travel boom (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11389042)

[74world]

Could any of you guys scan the AD from Flight International?
How to apply for a position with this new Airline?

[etops777]

The pay won't be low. All the airlines in Singapore pays pretty much the same just like the airlines in the Middle East.

By flying 80 hours a month Captains at Jetstarasia, Tiger, Silk, even the mainline SQ get about similar pay. The only differences would be the longevity in the company might make one salary higher in the mainline SIA. It will be local terms without any allowances.

Hope that helps.

[Metro man]

No doubt if they are offering type ratings ( not seen the advert ) there will be a swarm of pilots prepared to take local terms just for a B777 rating though you have to stay almost 6 years and give a bank guarantee as well.


TRAINING: Selected pilots without a B777 rating will undergo a conversion and be expected to fund 50% of the costs.


Anyone know how much ?

[bmwm5]

Would appreciate if anyone could scan the advertisement.......I have been searching on the internet with no joy on the job!!!!!

[Metro man]

B777 CAPTAINS AND FIRST OFFICERS - 1401221091 - Flightglobal Jobs (http://www.flightglobal.com/jobs/job/b777-captains-and-first-officers-singapore-1401221091.htm)

[millerscourt]

That is interesting in that SIA are now requiring payment of 50% of the cost.

When I joined as a DEC on the A340 from memory bank guarantee was around S$50000 and total bondage ( which was assumed to be the cost of conversion course which always seemed to have no bearing to what it must have cost SIA was around S$220,000)

On the B744 bank guarantee was S$60,000 and total bondage around S$250,000

At least with the bank guarantee you got it back provided you stayed 5 years from being checked out on the line. Are they going to keep this 50% of training costs or return it???? If not then it sounds like a very bad deal. How do they expect you to fund these training costs and what are the figures???????????$$$$$$$$$$??? SIA will include the salary you are paid during training which can take up to 3 months to complete as part of training costs no doubt. Even the cost of the ticket to get you over and to get CAAS licence etc etc knowing them.

I very much doubt if the terms will be good enough to attract a B777 rated Captain

[break_break]

Had a look at the advert, can't believe that they can be this arrogant. All there is, was "competitive remuneration"? I recall years ago when I was contemplating joining, we get the full illustration of pay package from A to Z.
Spoke to some of my mates in SingAir, looks like their main target is non rated desperate regional LoCo pilots, which they are sure to find thousands applying, apart from many more from Europe and US.
Not good for those who are 777 rated now, looks like cheap drivers will be readily available in few years time to flood the market once they finish serving their bond. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[millerscourt]

A380 Jockey


Why not disclose the whole package so it can be ripped to shreds or at least start hearing other views on the package.

As break break said SIA always published in full the whole package on the back page of Flight for years. Why the secrecy now??

[afhelipilot]

SIA are still fine I guess. I was s with a cadet p, at the airlines nearby. I guess they did not know what to do with me either take me as from Africa or EU or Asia. Just started to apply, while taking paid vacations from cancer and aviation, but I feel good with the helicopters, since I could not really assure myself with flying at permanent basis. I was wondering by the way what had happened with VF he had a brain turmour. I want him to fly I need to check the c and a field again, but I will be going for a short vacations.

[74world]

Can we ONLY apply via the web site: www.flightglobal.com ? or is there another way? :confused:

[CDRW]

Break- Break - and all - it is hard to believe just how arrogant an airline SQ can be. Just go back a while and see what they were initially offering for SQ Cargo. Those packages were an insult to the aviation community. With very few joiners, in the early days, rapidly and steadily the packages were improved.

Having a look at the online advert.
BENEFITS: Concessional air travel on company’s services for employee, spouse and children.
Annual leave and medical allowances.

SQ staff travel is most likely the worst in the world - if that's a benefit forget it.

Tenure is national terms - so there is no school allowance, no housing allowance. Good luck to anyone moving to Sin with a wife and children requiring international schooling.

HR will push out a package that is bouncing off the bottom - don't rush into it!

[break_break]

CDRW,
Thanks for the insight. I have been staying put at where I am, since there's no better option for me on the 380. Am rated and heavy on 777 hours since almost a decade ago and not many outfits offer viable alternative comparatively.
Despite the fact that I don't require any additional perks like children education or staff travel benefits, I will not move to any airline offering inferior pay condition. I have vested interest to ensure that for as long as I wish to fly, I will do my best not to assist in eroding pay package. I mean if you look at everywhere, pilots working environment has become much harsher, and HR does not intend to even compensate for inflationary effect of our devalued hard earned cash.
I do admit, however, judging from the trend of Lo Co development and movement of pilots, the reputable carriers are having good source of cheap and much less demanding pilots. There's really nothing much we can do about it, it's back to supply vs demand scenario.
I do strongly urge the rest to heed the advice of CDRW and not taking the plunge too soon, SingCargo is one excellent example to keep in mind.

[av8r76]

Working for a loco in Asia and this job fits my career aspirations. However, with the current pay packet I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. It's good to see other colleagues in the industry who will wait it out for a job which justifies the role we play in an airline.

[fourgolds]

I would trade the 900 plus hours I am currently doing a year for much less money provided there is less flying . This equates to lifestyle and sustainable health and I believe there are a growing number of us that are seeking just that. Off course though if Tiger and other LCC carriers are anything to go by then its more likely to be 1000 hrs a year as a target.
If an airline would structure a package on a max of 70 hours a month they might be onto something. Alas thats pie in the sky stuff.

I think this add is them putting out feelers to see what kind of people they can attract . Sadly they will get enough interest and wages and conditions will continue to be driven down.

On the other hand they could play it differently , developing a new brand that everyone wants to work for with a good reputation .Does not have to be huge money but a sustainable lifestyle package . If they are not carefull they will end up with a huge turnover of staff just like Tiger and a reputation that says dont touch.

[vserian]

They are looking for Indian cadets, and thats because for them Indians are considered as cheap labours. Yes they going to hit a industry low for a B777. I never expected something like this especially from a well reputed airline group like Singapore airlines.

[Stallone]

the indian cadets won't be flying the LCC's B777.. It's written in the cadet job advertisement that they will fly main fleet, cargo or silkair..

this new LCC will be operated independently

no cadets will be taken from the parent company..

come on, they even ask you to pay 50% for the TR, do you think they will use a cadet they spent so much on to fly for the LCC??


zzzzzzz :rolleyes:

[vserian]

Just wait and see what will happen with the cadets. Most of them will end up here and it does cost huge money as well to train them on the mainline. And there is a reason why they are looking for cadets especially Indians, no not because they love Indians, If there was no reason behind this then I dont see why cadets from all the countries should be welcomed (just like etihad did) or is there not enough singaporeans CPL holders or even cadets to fly their own aircrafts???

[etops777]

I am sure the pay won't be that bad just minus the allowances for school and housing. I suspect it would be in line with Tiger and Jetstar Asia with a base of 8000-10000 SGD plus flight pay and per diem. This would equate to about 16000-17000 SGD roughly per month for about 80 hours of flying.

Captains at Jetstar Asia doing 80 hours a month will get around 16700 sgd. This is not a bad salary for a LCC..

[dl_88]

if there was no reason behind this then I dont see why cadets from all the countries should be welcomed (just like etihad did) or is there not enough singaporeans CPL holders or even cadets to fly their own aircrafts???

there isnt any way for one to get a CPL in singapore unless you're employed with a company(correct me if i'm wrong). The highest license one can get is a PPL(R). If one wants to get a full licence, one has to go over to malaysia to complete the navigation portion of it.
I think there are quite a few singaporeans doing their CPL and flying over here in aus(me included).
For singaporean male citizen, we have to be 26yrs of age to apply to SQ. The few avenue to become a pilot with a singaporean licence is to either go with jetstar cadetship, Airforce route or Singapore Airline Cadetship. The expensive way is leave the country to go and learn flying overseas.

[Stallone]

you see, doing an international cadet thingy ala Etihad is way too time consuming and require lots of effort, so SQ won't bother. And as you can see, Etihad last did it in 2008/2009. Last year's was non-existence

why choose India? Bigger pool of "talents", and SQ now requires them to have at least a university degree so as to sieve out the "undesirables"

CPL holders in Singapore? haha, this place ain't India, CPL holders aren't aplenty.

and with them being so high in standard when choosing potential cadets from both Singapore and Malaysia, there's bound to be a lack of cadets, thus they head to India.

[CDRW]

Etops777 - yea I think you are right about the package. The new LCC - what ever it will be called (SIA Saver??) , will offer what the other LCC's are offering - maybe a tad more ( say + S$500/ month) to make it "attractive". Most likely another productivity based package - with no guaranteed hours buts lots of verbal hype that if you do 80 hrs you get a decent wage. Just don't go on leave or get long term sick!!

Build it and they will come????!!! Where will Captains come from? One source may be all the ex SQ 744 guys that were given the right old flick a few years ago and are now in Qatar?? Depends who they dislike more. Etihad, Emirates = maybe a few Asian fellows who left SQ to join a middle east carrier, now have their commands and want to get back to Asia. But would anyone leave EK to join a SIA LCC??? Would anyone leave any 777 operation to a SIA LCC?

Fourgolds - I think you are wishful thinking to the max. The very nature of LCC dictates max hours. Just ask any AirAsia pilot.

I suspect that the HR department are not too worried if they don't get the expected interest. One of the largest pools of 777 crew are right on their doorstep. Mainline 777 pilots will be "seconded" to fly the LCC. After all who is the daddy in all this. SQ!! And if anyone think that they wont put cadets onto the LCC fleet to be trained, then you are in cloud cuckoo land.

[vdaff]

@stallone

did you know that not even 1 single India got selected in Etihad cadet programme in its history?

SIA is taking in Indian because they are the ones who are ready to accept slavery contracts

[Stallone]

well nobody forced them to sign on the line on contracts offering substandard terms

if the terms are significantly lower than what is usually offered, well then they have nobody to blame if they're eventually "reshuffled" to fly for the LCC

[rotatejunkie]

@ Stallone---
You're opening a can of worms.

Can it mate.

[hobbes234]

...why choose India? Bigger pool of "talents", and SQ now requires them to have at least a university degree so as to sieve out the "undesirables"...

I sense frustration... :D LOL

[dl_88]

i don't blame him for feeling that way mate. Won't say i'm a happy camper too.

[Twinotterguy]

As soon as I saw they need Indian cadets, I knew they are going to give a crap contract because Indians are probably the last "talented" cheap workers

and not to mention they are talented in faking hrs, marksheets and corrupting the whole country

[Fluke]

hey fourgolds, come to Turkish. I am doing 450 hrs year on 777 for bugger all money. Great life, green grass and Beer during Ramadan !:ok:

[fourgolds]

Heard TK is a good gig. Just wish they would start hiring again on the 777.
Perhaps soon . Alas I,m off to start my 97 hrs for this month ! Anything is looking better long term. The sandpit can keep their money , the boys are starting to get sick .

[fourgolds]

Heard TK is a good gig. Not hiring at the moment though on the 777.
Perhaps soon . Alas I,m off to start my 97 hrs for this month ! Anything is looking better long term. The sandpit can keep their money , the boys are starting to get sick .

[millerscourt]

fourgolds

We heard you first time:}

[vserian]

Fourgold

I really feel for you guys in the sandpit, just thats too much flying there. I can never imagine myself touching 90hr mark, the highest I have ever done is 83 and not to mention few years ago I was very close to quit my job here to fly with EK but my wife and kids were not prepared to move, now I can thank them for saving me. Like I said I am sorry I just cant fly that much a month, I hope it gets better for you guys over there.

[Pin Head]

so whats the package then for a FO?

[gottofly]

any idea when SQ LITE will start hiring and their start date?

[bangbounceboeing]

any more details about this operation?

[JMEN]

Check out the latest flight international...

[DJ747]

Any idea on T & C's yet ? Salary, base etc ??

[mach 84]

what about working beyond 60?

[Che Xindamail]

I saw somewhere that they plan to fly to India.

Get used to night turnarounds for 1000 hours/year which is what the CAAS allow, for about SGD15k/month after tax, IF you fly. This is based on the existing SQ mainline local package which does not provide housing or schooling.

Sounds good? Think again.

Add to this the cost of living in Singapore.

If you have a family you will pay about 5k/month for a 1500sf flat if you want something reasonably nice (yes, HDB anywhere is cheaper but no facilities).

You will pay at least 2k/month per child for an international school (that's EVERY month throughout the year not just when school is in session). As an example the Australian International middle school fee is about 22k/year. But you need to cough up a registration and infrastructure fee totaling 6k/child. I believe Tanglin Trust (British school) is roughly the same.

Now you haven't even eaten or gone anywhere yet.

If you have more than two kids, forget about entertainment or nice restaurants. Get ready for dinner at your local hawker (which is actually pretty good) or to cook at home. Nothing wrong with that, but be prepared for Singaporean supermarket prices.

Buy a car? Save for retirement? Forget it. You are already out of pocket for your 50% share of the 777 rating, school registration and two months rental deposit (plus one in advance). Getting started will cost you dearly.

Singapore is VERY expensive, and this will be a grossly substandard package for anybody who's not single. Let supply and demand sort this one out before you make a mistake you will regret.

[KAL__Aviator]

Fret not, the bee line has been formed. They are now overwhelmed with applicants. Too many desperate, divorce, single, heavily in debt pilots out there.

[evyjet]

Of course the bee line has been formed. Guys like me send in an application to see what the T & C's are. If they're as low as you and others make out, then I'll simply say NO! As will a lot of others in "the line".

If these guys don't put a figure on the table, there will be loads of people who want to have a nosy. That being said, I am referring to type rated guys.

[Bob Morane]

Does anyone knows what the retirement age is in Singapore , Has it been
extended to 65 yet ??

[pacificgypsy]

yes it has.

[Patty747400]

Easy to see what's happening here. They haven't decided on the T&C yet. Depending on how many qualified and desperate applicants they get they will present an offer that they think they can get away with.

[fourgolds]

Agreed , just because they have a stream of applicants does not mean all will take the job. As the T&C,s have not been published as of yet. I suspect many might well take a look see and decline if not satisfactory.

[bangbounceboeing]

Has anybody had a response from them yet?

[etops777]

The window closes on the 31st. I don't think they will be calling anyone until Sept.

[bangbounceboeing]

what's the interest from the sand pit for these positions?

[etops777]

bangbounce

I was only referring to your questions. What's wrong to keep the options open?

[Stratocruzer]

if anybody needs to know the working and living conditions in sq just ask any x sq expat and they will tell you how its like

sq has been one of the pioneers in aviation in several areas and not all of them shining examples of good management; pilot benefits and exploitation of contracts to name a few though the second one is a different story depending whether you talk to management or pilot

so based on past practices you can expect them to pay the minimum that they could get away with which is minimum pay for maximum return if they can get away with it. a lot of people here are saying that they wont go but rest assured they WILL be takers where ever from, and sq will take them in because as far as management is concerned the planes fly. it may not be as simple as that but basically thats how it is

[CDRW]

Yup strato's hit the nail on the head. Any truth in the rumours that RBA may be coming to an end?

[Che Xindamail]

Regarding the T & Cs. Logically, they will be at best SQ mainline local terms. I say at best, because the benchmark in Singapore nowadays is the substandard, bare-bones, scrape-the-bottom-of-the-barrel deal offered by Tiger.

Also, for any employment in Singapore, a dictionary is useful:

'at company's discretion' = you won't get it
'reviewed on annual basis' = less than last year
'generous' = crap
'subsidised' = crap
'discounted' = crap

[gottofly]

TIGER website shows they are paying much more salary than what was advertised by flightglobal on behalf of SQ Lite.atleast sgd 5000 more per month.

[boeinglover]

Last heard rumour Capt's remuneration around 22K, FO's 16K details unknown.

Anyone else has more indepth details of their package n perks pls kindly share :D

[etops777]

Boeinglover

I doubt it will be 22k for Capt and 16k for FO. It would be more or less around 16k-18k for Capt ( depending on the hours flown), and around 10-12k for FO.

[fatbus]

Since SIA mainkine is not hiring at the moment , there is no T/C info on their website.How does this compare to the current T/C at SIA mainline?

[Che Xindamail]

Check out SQ Cargo T & Cs on their career website, basically the same as SQ mainline. Remember, local terms.
22k for a Captain? Keep dreaming.
Try 15k after tax. If you fly. No flying = 10k before tax, no extras. Good luck.

[bloodsucker]

For Tiger, salary is (as of last year):

Captain: SGD 203,873 (appx 17k/mth)
F/O: SGD 135,959 (appx 11.3k/mth)
JFO: SGD 107,963 (appx 9k/mth)

These figures are based on estimates that u fly 950 hrs a year (80 hrs a mth), pre-tax of course.

[rotatejunkie]

"Singapore Airlines appears to be considering naming its new long-haul low-cost subsidiary Scoot Airlines.
The domain name 'scootairlines.com' was registered in Singapore by TBWA, SIA's advertising agency, on 28 June.
SIA says that an announcement on the name and branding of the new airline, which will be managed separately from the full-service carrier, will be made in due course.
"Several names have been under consideration but the management of the new airline is not able to confirm details of the branding at this stage. Details will be announced by the management of the new airline in due course," said an SIA spokesman.
The airline is due to start operations in 2012 using some of SIA's existing Boeing 777-200s that will be retrofitted.
Campbell Wilson, a SIA executive, has been named as its CEO. Details on the network have not been made available.". :cool:

[boeinglover]

Etops777,

Thanks for the correction there. :ok:

[Stallone]

Scoot? Likely name of SIA budget carrier (http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_705799.html)

Scoot Airlines

[R20c]

Scoot Airlines sounds like a terrible name...

[WYOMINGPILOT]

The Flightglobal link is now not working, it was supposed to stay open until Aug. 31st for the application period. It appears they may have not been serious about the job posting yet and simply fishing to see the scope and breadth of the application base. I assume they were not serious yet as no terms have been finalized yet and they will now open up a Scoot website soon.

[twentyyearstoolate]

Does anyone have any info on the next round of interviews?

[dogsfatass]

Anyone heard back from the interviews last week/s?

Start date for NTR guys?

[twentyyearstoolate]

All seems very quiet.

I think at the moment this is all in house jobs. Not sure if they will keep recruiting over time, or stop future recruitment.

Certainly the ones interviewed are keeping Mum. (for good reason I guess).

[Hogger60]

SINGAPORE, Oct 11 (Reuters) - Singapore Airlines (SIA) , the world's second-largest carrier by market value, is expected to start its new budget long-haul carrier in April with one Boeing 777-200 aircraft, the Straits Times reported on Tuesday.
The number of aircraft operated by the new airline will be expanded to four within three months and to a total of 14 Boeing passenger jets, with a capacity to carry around 400 passengers each, by the middle of 2016.
The success of the new budget carrier could give SIA a new growth engine and an ability to compete with rising competition from other budget carriers such as AirAsia (http://archives.thestar.com.my/search/?q=AirAsia) and JetStar, a unit of Qantas .


Latest from the wires on 'Scoot'. They also had an ad in the Star here in KL looking for FO's. No T&C's were included of course.

[dogsfatass]

First successful applicants will be notified on the 17th Oct. Expect CPT departures from 3K and Tiger.

$22K is accurate I'm told.

[fingerstyle]

Expect CPT from 3K and Tiger jump to the SIN lite?
For FO, its no brainer if you have the chance to jump, I will say. But for CPT... not so sure.

It seems like, the NTR CPT will be paying for his own transition course, and sitting at the "right seat", and be bonded for 5 years. Is there gonna be anything in the contract stating that you will be getting your "left seat" back after xx years? Don't think so...They may "consider", but not "promise"....That's the KEY!

For an 320 CPT, it may be much easier to jump for an direct-upgrade to 330 CPT, in Korea or China(both accept NTR CPT)

What you think? Trying to make my move now....

[R20c]

What makes you think the Captains would not go straight to left seat? I think you'll find they are... and why not?

[CDRW]

Heard through the grape vine that quite a few ex SQ mainline guys that got the heave ho during the GFC will be coming back to Scoot. Qatar may have a few resignations soon.

[polbip]

Anyone out there that interviewed with them lately can provide some insight on the interview process and sim flight profile ?

Also, anyone else here invited to interview in November ?

PM me if you prefer

[etops777]

Here it comes..

FlyScoot.com — We’re gearing up for adventure (http://Www.flyscoot.com)

[fingerstyle]

Its been a while.....
So any updated news for Scoot? I guess it's gonna be a decent job, cause all seem to be very very quiet!?
Its said that the formal T&C will be out on 15/Nov, which is just today. Anyone got the real deal yet?

[thrustpig]

First round of offers have been out for a week or so.

[Stallone]

how many pilots are needed to operate one B772?

There will only be one for a start, and they haven't reveal the routes yet, have they?

[Hogger60]

Four 777's to start. First destinations will be Australia and China, with Europe/Middle East/India to follow. Usual crewing is 10 crews per aircraft, but probably less with Scoot. So that would probably be between 50-80 pilots to start with.

[Fly_safe]

Has anyone received Offer of Employment yet? Last I heard some people got kind of non binding letter of intent, actual contract still not ready. :confused:

[faireydelta]

Does anyone know when they plan to hire again? What are their DEC minimums?
Thanks.

[twentyyearstoolate]

Should be hiring soon I assume ??

[Hogger60]

Ive read sometime around the end of the year or later, depending upon when the next AC is turned over from SQ.

[faireydelta]

Thanks... Do you know what their DEC requirements are?

[gottofly]

Is there any chance for a narrow body 737Ng rated PIC 5000HRS ,10000 TOTAL TIME to get a job with SCOOT?They had advertised initially for non typed too.Am I wasting my time applying?
Thanks for any info.

[faireydelta]

Shouldn't they be gearing up to do some kind of interviewing soon? They seem to be hiring every type of employee except pilots, judging from their Careers section.

[faireydelta]

Still no word on Hiring?

[gottofly]

Heard from a friend working in Sg that some of the 76 pilots asked by SIA to leave are joining Scoot and others in the region,so probably no hiring for some time

[chrislikesblue]

Anyone has some details about the contacts of this company? Metroman i opened the link you posted and it says the job is no longer available. Maybe they stopped the recruitment?

[Fly_safe]

They are getting just one more 772 from SIA in June this year and as I understand, for this aircraft they have already recruited pilots. Some are from SQ and some from outside. Next recruitment should take place some time middle of 2014 because they are expecting their first 787 to arrive towards the end of 2014.

Their contract is for 5 years, benifits almost nil as compared to legacy airlines. Non rated have to pay around 30k for the training and will be bounded for 5 years. With 80 hrs of flying captain can gross around 19k and FO around 12k.

[flying.monkeyz]

If you're gonna put your kids in international schools, that ain't gonna be enough. Forget about villa.

[Plastic fantastic]

You will be short by about $3000 per month not allowing for any entertainment costs, endorsement repayments, CPF, car.
You will need a Captain's salary to get by, don't think about getting rich as those days are gone.
Don't even think about putting your kids in a local school unless you plan on staying in Singapore for good.
The rental market moves more than the stock market in Sing. Expect your landlord to double the rent whenever he can.