NATS Postings

[jetsetter24]

Hi,

I'm looking at applying for the trainee ATCO with NATS when the recruitment opens up again. I was wondering if someone could answer a couple of questions though:

I understand you can be posted anywhere after training, however how much of a preference do you get in this? I currently live in South London so being posted close to London would be my first choice and Swanwick as a second.

Where do ATCO's who work at Swanwick live? Currently it would take me 1hr 20 to get to Swanwick which could be a push and may need to move down to the coast, but need to be within commuter distance for the other half who works in London.

Any replies are much appreciated.

J

[Mr_Grubby]

Jetsetter.

Be warned. You can be posted anywhere.

You may have a preferred location but that means nothing. You will be sent to wherever ATCO’s are required.

A good friend of mine, who was from Jersey and married to a Guernsey lady asked for anywhere in the south. He was sent to Aberdeen. He validated there then he resigned and got a job with Jersey.

They lived happily ever after.

Beware.

Don't trust NATS Management. They will promise the world and will deliver nothing.

C.

[Me Me Me Me]

I'm rarely one to stick up for management... but that's a little unfair.

As your contract has a mobility clause, you can be posted anywhere within the UK. You may well have the chance to note a preference but there is no guarantee at all that you will get that preference.

Because they say you could be posted anywhere and people think 'yeah but they don't really mean anywhere' doesn't make them untrustworthy for applying it.

[Mr_Grubby]

Me Me Me Me.

No, I don’t think I am being unfair in the least.

I've spent 33 years as an ATCO under BoT, CAA, NATS. Different titles, but same tawdry regime.

I was shafted once over postings. Big time.

Yes I know we were, (are) a mobile grade, but new comers should be aware of the people in Management that they will be dealing with.

Time marches on from my dealings with them but a Leopard never changes its spots. Beware.

C.

[ZOOKER]

Sadly, I have to agree with Mr. Grubby.
I had 3 minor 'shaftings'. Notwithstanding the unit requirements and mobile-grade thihg, there is and always has been a small number of people in management positions whose only source of job satisfaction is other people's unhappiness. They have never heard of the phrase '1 volunteer is worth 100 pressed men', so they never manage to get the best out of people.
I know of many good people who have left NATS because of this. From a recent course, a student from Hampshire was sent to Prestwick, while a student from Ayrshire was posted to LACC. They offered to swap, but HR wouldn't hear of it.
It creates unnecessary frustration, travelling, and is very expensive when the person leaves the company to work elsewhere.
I suspect this type of activity is not confined to ATC.

[Talkdownman]

Sadly, I also have to agree with Mr. Grubby.

I 'enjoyed' 4 compulsory postings during 40 years loyal service all of which had to be at my own expense. Each was deemed, in nats' favour, to be within 'reasonable daily travelling distance'. In connection with the third I still possess a 'relocation approved' form with a 'relocation not approved' cut and pasted over the top! That cost me an extra 50 miles a day. Regarding the fourth I turned up for work after leave only to find that work was no longer there. It had moved even further away during my absence. I declined the fifth which was yet further still, and to be at my expense, and resigned.

No, as Mr Grubby says, don't trust nats Management. Beware the moving goalposts!

[Standard Noise]

jetsetter24 - ask 100 NATS ATCOs and get 100 different opinions.........except in this case. It's well known that people can be posted far from where they wanted to be. There is no automatic right to be based where it best suits you, it's all about what the company needs. That said, there have been some shocking decisions over the years.
If your partner cannot work in any other part of the country then it's a problem, but I doubt that's the case. My wife has gone as far as she can in her company without requiring a move up to the Nottingham area and she accepts that as my unit is Bristol, she may have to forget another move up the ladder as it might not fit with my career.
Admittedly, I was able to move around (outside NATS) as I wished and found the place I wanted to be before rejoining the company, so I have a slightly different persepctive.

All you need to know is that you will be signing up to what is, for new employees anyway, a mobile grade. Maybe you should factor that in to your decision whether to apply or not.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I must have been dead lucky. My ambition was always to work at Heathrow but I excluded it from my thoughts when I joined as I was happy enough just to get into the "Ministry". I wrote to ATC Staffing (one Maurice Smart) and said something like: "For family reasons - we have a 2 month old baby - I would be most grateful for a posting in southern England. Having said that I suppose I'd better take bagpipe lessons?" Maurice rang me up and asked if I'd like to go to Heathrow, causing me to be speechless, terrified and thrilled in one go. For the next 30+ years those working with me exhibited the first two........

[Loki]

I too was lucky with my original posting, having got where I asked to go.....but only because a field examiner sidled up to me one day in the mess at Border Radar and said "how would you feel if you were to be posted to Glasgow?" I replied that I'd be quite happy with that and he asked me to put that on my request chit (we had to fill one in in those days) et, Voila!

When I got posted darn sarf, things weren't quite so good, in that the HR people contrived to make things very awkward indeed....I had naively thought that they were there to help!

[eastern wiseguy]

Maybe it's just me.....but when I got my first posting to Redbrae I was just chuffed to be IN ATC .I met a heap of brilliant people and could not have had a better start to my career.

I subsequently ended up in Belfast(where I did not want to go despite being from there) and again the people made it.

I reckon you should concentrate on getting in....then make the best of it!!

[Mr_Grubby]

HD.

Well there you go. You mention a most duplicitous man who “promised the world “and just did not deliver.

Was he still wearing the same shabby brown suit when you met him that he was wearing when I had dealings with him in 1973 ?

"The moral of the story, the moral of the song.
Is that one should never be where one does not belong"

Beware of HR.

C.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<You mention a most duplicitous man who “promised the world “and just did not deliver.>>

I never met MS but he sure delivered for me and I have nothing but praise for him.

[ex-EGLL]

End of course request was for Southern England, got Aberdeen in the middle of the oil boom! As I was already at Belfast (and enjoying it!) I volunteered to stay for a 3 year term provided they

A) ship the girlfriend (now wife) over from Oceanic and give her a job
B) we both get Heathrow at the end of 3 years

They agreed, posted me to Heathrow at the end of the cadetship with an immediate detachment to Belfast and all the subsistence and allowances that go with it. Actually a win - win situation for us.

[novation]

Lots of boring sob stories here. Ask yourself whether you want the opportunity to do the best job in the world regardless of location and if so apply. If location is more important than the work then don't . I was posted from one end of the country to the other and its the best thing that ever happened to me. Remember the pay and conditions for being an Atco can usually make you look on the bright side of any posting.

[SUMBURGH DIRECTOR]

Maybe it's just me.....but when I got my first posting to Redbrae I was just chuffed to be IN ATC

eastern.. you should try ABZ offshore first, then we can talk about it ;)

[chevvron]

I had it the other way from talkdownman. At the end of my cadet course Mike (teeth 'n trousers) Hunt asked how I felt about going to Farnborough; I said I would be very happy; he said 'you don't want Heathrow then?' ; I said no. Bill Woodruff told us that those going to MOD units (3) would be posted after 5 years. Never happened. After about ten years at Farnborough, personnel offered me a posting to AP6; I declined as I wasn't ready to move then. A few years after that, when Station Grading came in, (not to be confused with station banding) I applied for about 20 postings in 10 months both operational and non - operational, had about 18 interviews, and was turned down for every post partly on the grounds I had never had a posting!!
Hence I stayed at Farnborough for 34 years during which time talkdownman came and went!!
NATS loss for not using my experience and knowledge for other tasks.

[Mr_Grubby]

“Ask yourself whether you want the opportunity to do the best job in the world regardless of location and if so apply.”

Very true. But if you don’t wish to work in that location it is a drag to be posted there against your will as I was.

I spent 4 years, 6 months, 3 weeks, 2 days and 11 hours in the God forsaken place called Scotland. I hated every minute. I have never returned.

Ok, I met and married a lovely local lady. Now living in Surrey for 28 years, even she won’t go back.

Pay and conditions are to be taken into account but it is quality of life that is most important.

C.

[ex-EGLL]

“Ask yourself whether you want the opportunity to do the best job in the world regardless of location and if so apply.”

As Mr Grubby said, the best job in the world doesn't offset poor living conditions, Aberdeen in the mid 70's was way out of the price range of a newly licensed ATCO IV, the Americans were in town and had bought all the local property, even tents were beyond my means at the time!!

Say hi to A C

B

[Spitoon]

ask 100 NATS ATCOs and get 100 different opinions.........except in this case.Well, it looks like 99 ATCOs share a single opinion or experience on this topic.

FWIW, here is my experience. On my course, at the end of which there were about 20 left, I think only a couple of people were really happy with the postings.

There were a fair number who really didn't care where they went, but those who had expressed a preference were almost universally disappointed. I recall two particular people, one from the way north of England the Scottish wife who desperately wanted a posting anywhere in Scotland and another from the London area whose personal life was going to be much simpler if he worked down south, ideally at Stansted.

You will probably have worked out by now what happened. The guy who wanted Stansted got posted to Edinburgh and the guy who wanted to go anywhere in Scotland was posted to Stansted. Both failed to complete the training. How much of this was down to the postings - who can say - but it cost NATS a lot of money and did not produce qualified controllers. At no time did the Personnel people show very much interest in the situation or in helping to resolve it, nor was any reason (even a poor one) ever offered for why the postings were the way they were.

To answer the OP's question - in part anyway - I believe that there is still a good chance that a trainee will get posted to Swanwick simply because that's where the largest number of controllers is required. To stay in the London area, and living in south London, I guess Gatwick would be your first choice and Heathrow your second. This would mean that you would need to be 'streamed' for Aerodrome training rather than en route, which last I heard is itself not easy, and although I don't know how things work these days back in my day you had to have excelled during the training to be considered for Heathrow or Gatwick.

To slightly develop Mr_Grubby's comment, you need to decide if you really want to do ATC and recognise that getting there may not be the smoothest of rides. But once you have a license in your hand you have many other opportunities available.

[Me Me Me Me]

Mr_Grubby
I spent 4 years, 6 months, 3 weeks, 2 days and 11 hours in the God forsaken place called Scotland. I hated every minute. I have never returned.

I asked Scotland and it said don't hurry back :}

[sr562]

Just to add to the above comments, if you do apply and you are still given the chance to put your preference in, I would suggest that if you want to stay in London, put Scotland as your first choice and you might just get London.

On my course there was a 60/40 split between area and airports, the split actually worked in favour of everyone's choices and you would think that the company would welcome the easy decision, abilities aside. Alas they decided to send people who wanted area to aoerodrome and vice versa. I say abilities aside, as when asked about the decision we were told that it wasn't about ability, but where they thought we would "fit in"

My opinion, don't trust NATS management, as has been suggested before, some people in charge of these things take great satisfaction from sending people to the opposite end of the country than their preference. Staff morale is not a priority of NATS HR.

As an aside I'm quite happy with my posting, so I'm not a bitter contributer, just posting what I experienced.

[GAPSTER]

...whilst in no way being a defender of either HR or our management,who I have seen screw over a number of close colleagues down the years,it should be noted that decisions on postings seem to be made based on pen portraits provided by the college....probably where the fitting in mentioned above comes from.I have seen a number of such portraits and have to say they appear to be extremely subjective.

[hangten]

I would suggest that if you want to stay in London, put Scotland as your first choice and you might just get London.

:p It might work, it might not...

I don't think NATS sets out to screw anyone, but you will be sent where you are needed. Your opinion will be asked but it really matters not. If ATCOs are needed in Scotland, you'll be in Scotland, if they're needed near London, you'll be in London. Personally I don't think we should ask for preferences since it sets a false expectation.

I know people who've been shafted, and those who've got very lucky.