Lighting Up On The Flight Deck?

[VFE]

Hello there,
I have just watched a film on TCM called 'Skyjacked'. It's about a Global Airlines B707 getting hijacked by a mentally-ill US soldier. In it, the Capt just before take off lights up his pipe (to the roll-eyes of the the FO and FE!). I had to chuckle.
When was this sort of thing banned by the aviation authorities?(the lighting up, not the roll-eyes of the crew!!).

Just to add, the film was made in 1972 and starred Charlton Heston.

Thanks for reading, VFE.

------------------
And up we go!

[This message has been edited by VFE (edited 05 November 2000).]

[Mr Benn]

I think many airlines now have a ban on smoking on the flight deck purely as a health and safety issue (ie. if Captain smokes, FO doesn't then FO has no choice but to breathe in the smoke and could therefore claim for damages from the company when FO gets lung cancer or health deteriorates).
That's the theory.
The airline I work for has a ban on smoking on the flight deck.
Despite many requests to certain Captains not to smoke (I am a non smoker) there are a small number who continue to do so. One Captain I regularly fly with is a chain smoker and I have to leave the flight deck to get any fresh air at all. On turn rounds I am first out the door gasping for fresh air. I choose not to smoke and I also find it adversely affects my eyes. In the confined space of a flight deck, the smoke becomes quite thick and overpowering.
Personally I consider it to be rude, as well as breaking the company regulations.
I was thinking of leaving the flight deck every time the Captain lights up, just to make a point, but then that would jeopardise not only the safety of the flight but my job.
But what can I do? If I report it, he will know I have reported it and future flights could be interesting (CRM wise). He knows my views on the subject. Unfortunately many of the cabin crew smoke and refuse to report it to back me up.
If I report it and ask for anonymity I am 100% sure that my name would be mentioned at some point. And it is my word against his.
So what to do? I have no choice but to become a heavy passive smoker for hours on end.
Anyone with any useful ideas, please let me know! (Other than me taking up smoking!)

[Wiley]

Mr Benn, you do have a choice. If you’ve got the bottle, you could try burning off a page of business cards with the following message on them and some in your wallet or nav bag. Pass one across to your captain next time he lights up.

If you’re not comfortable with that, make a joke of it before he lights up, telling him about this really funny card you saw some fellow gave to a smoker in a crowded bar.

Cigarette smoke is the residue of your pleasure.
It permeates the air and putrefies my hair and clothes,
not to mention my lungs. This takes place without my
consent. I have a pleasure also; I like a beer now and
again. The residue from my pleasure is urine. With the
greatest respect, wouldn’t you be just a little annoyed
if I stood on a chair and pissed all over you?

Smokers are addicts, so it’s difficult to reason with them. I know an FO who, after spending more time off the flight deck than on it during a seven hour leg thanks to his heavy smoker captain’s chain smoking throughout the whole flight, stood up and began to leave his seat passing 15,000’ on descent into Heathrow when the captain lit up yet again. When the captain asked him what he was doing, he told the ignorant prick* that he had the choice of a First Officer or a cigarette for the approach into London. (*There’s no other description for someone who continually lights up in the confined space of a cockpit when he knows the other person finds the habit distasteful.)

I believe you’re wrong not to make an official complaint, but before you do that, show the man some of the courtesy he’s not showing you. Before going into print, tell him you’re going to approach crewing (or your fleet captain) and ask not to be scheduled to fly with him again as his smoking distresses you. Don’t turn it into a confrontation; keep it polite. It’s quite possible he’ll tell you he wasn’t aware it was troubling you and will suggest a compromise, like limiting his smoking to periods when either you or he can leave the flight deck.

If he won’t accept a compromise, he’s not worth worrying about.

[VFE]

Crikey-oh-blimey!
I had no idea it still happened.
I hope things improve for you soon Mr.Benn.

Thanks for the replies.

[enntwo]

Reporting!?!
Isn't that weapon just a little bit OTT for such a trivial problem? http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif
Aren't there far more important things to be concerned about than someone having the occasional fag? :rolleyes:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JCM82482/bdcannon.gif

PS. I've never smoked.



[This message has been edited by enntwo (edited 06 November 2000).]

[Skycop]

N2,

If it adversely affects the FO on the flightdeck then it is a flight safety problem as well as a totally unnecessary health hazard.

The RAF used to have a policy on the Puma that the cockpit crew were allowed to smoke IF there was an ashtray in the cockpit. It got to the stage where the aircraft used to stink and sometimes when the cockpit windows were opened in flight there used to be a blinding flurry of fag-ash. (There was no other ventilation apart from one punkah louvre powered by the forward airflow - not good in 38 degrees C and 98% humidity).

The ashtrays were removable. In Belize we used to have a few chain smokers. Not surprisingly the ashtrays often disappeared without trace. The chain smokers quickly found the manufacturer's part number and persuaded the supply officer to order more. It became a war of attrition and the jungles of Belize are now littered with the damn things, especially the first leg of the day from APC to Punta Gorda. The non-smokers eventually won but I for one always wonder if I ever clouted anyone below...

[Mr Benn]

enntwo, Captains who have an occasional fag, well, I'm not going to worry about that. I fly with other Captains who have maybe one or two flights per 4 hour sector, that I can live with.
When you spend 9 hours in an aeroplane with a Captain who continually smokes, and even has the audacity to have his air vent on full blast pointed across the flight deck because he doesn't like getting smoke blown into his face, well that is another thing. If I wanted a constant dose of nicotine I'd take up smoking.
In all other ways this Captain is one of the nicest people I fly with. Being at a small base I regularly have to fly with this person.
I have tried just about every approach.
My last resort is going to result in confrontation. There is no other way. He will not stop smoking during the flight. During the cruise I try and leave the flight deck as often as possible but it is still disgusting to go back into the fume filled thick smoky environment which is my workplace.
Wiley, that is all well and good but when we are both standing in the Manager's office, it will be my word (relatively new FO) against his (many years with company, training Captain).
Knowing the management, somehow I don't think it would be good for either of our careers.

[Slasher]

VFE, Charlton Heston "looked right" when he welcomed everybody to Anchorage and then calmly lit up his pipe didnt he?

I "officialy" gave up a while ago. Only rarely do I bum the odd smoke when Im tanked at the pub on an overnight (and deep in some meaningless philosophical discussion). But dont have any real objection if anyone else wants to, esp any skirt.
If the FO wants to, I just ask him if he could cut it down to say one every half hour.
Id rather do that than start any popular human land-rights for non-smoking gay whales brawl.

PS If a crew member insists on chain-smoking (or chain-farting for that matter) don your oxy mask on 100% each time he/she/it lights up. Think Im joking? You have a definite legal recourse to do so, and at minimum bottle pressure for continued flight just tell him he now has to stop.

Theres more ways to skinning a cat than shoving parsley up its bum!

[7x7]

Mr Benn, you asked Wiley for a solution. He offered you more than one. There’re few things certain in this world. Death, taxes - and the fact that you're not going to find a solution to this problem without ruffling someone's feathers.

If, as you say, the captain is continually smoking all through a nine hour sector, you've got a potential health problem on your hands. But if you're not game to confront him over this, just suffer in silence, because that's what you're going to have to keep doing if you don't have the balls to front him over this matter.

Are you inferring in your last post that the captain will deny he's smoking on the flight deck if you bring this before management? Give your Manager a bit of credit. He will know the captain’s a heavy smoker. He’ll also know his reputation well enough to know he’s the kind of person to ignore SOPs like the non-smoking rule. Do you think he's so stupid as to think that you, a junior FO, would bring such a complaint to him if the captain wasn't smoking on the flight deck?

If you're not willing to stand up and be counted, do yourself a favour and stop complaining - for you're going to have a lot more experience in the future of many others riding roughshod over you in all areas of your life.

[Goldie]

If you are reluctant to tackle this one, how would you handle a scene whearas you thought this Capt was making or about to make a bad mistake, the likes that we have recently seen?

Would you have the same difficulty dealing with a passenger caught having a quick puff in the John?

[7x7]

Tell us how it pans out, Ben. (cough, cough!)

[enntwo]

http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smokin.gif Mr Benn
Even as a lifetime non-smoker, I was unsympathetic to your post because making a complaint about the Captain smoking is, to me, rather like running to teacher.
Either have the courage to sort it out yourself directly with the Captain, or put up with it.

However, the part of your post which made me even less sympathetic than I would otherwise have been was when you said: Unfortunately many of the cabin crew smoke and refuse to report it to back me up."
Firstly, this really is playground stuff - you'll only tell teacher if the other children come with you.
Secondly, and much worse, I think it's completely out of order for you as flight crew to involve cabin crew in a difference/dispute with another member of the flight crew.
It's a flight deck "problem" and IMHO you should not resort to drawing cabin crew into it - or even discussing the conduct of your Captain (or any other pilot) with them. Who else are you going to involve - the cleaners who remove the cigarette butts from his side?

Keep a sense of proportion about the "problem" - and don't lose your own dignity by involving CC.

[This message has been edited by enntwo (edited 08 November 2000).]

[Lu Zuckerman]

Re: Smoking in the cockpit/flightdeck.

This will really date me. Way back when I was an aircraft/helicopter mechanic in the US Coast Guard our pilots all smoked while flying. On many occasions, they complained that the vacuum driven instruments were not working right. They were described as either operating slowly in a turn or when there was a directional change.

The remedy for this problem was to clean the filters on the air inlet of each instrument. This was done using alcohol. Once the filters were cleaned, the instruments operated as they were designed to do. Granted, this doesn't apply to our glass cockpits/flight decks but smoking could cause other problems. The tars and other products in the smoke are plating themselves out on just about everything on the instrument panel and the overhead switch panels. It is getting into everything inside the panel and inside the switch panels. This viscous sticky goo can possibly enter switches and other electrical equipment causing an alteration of the items electrical properties.

Prior to the US airlines under FAA control eliminating smoking, the mechanics were constantly having to clean the cabin pressure regulator valves because they became coated with cigarette byproducts and quite often got stuck. Outside of the aircraft you could see a dark line just behind the pop-off-valve. This too resulted in a maintenance action.

Once the aircraft were purged of the smoke byproducts it opened up a new problem. The tars and other smoke products actually helped seal the cabin doors and with out the sticky mess the door seals were found to be leaking.

The problem of vacuum driven instruments still holds true for smaller aircraft. So the problem goes on.

------------------
The Cat

[GeneralAviation]

So the cure for smoking on the flight deck is alcohol - yup, sounds like a typical pilot solution.

Can't see a problem with it, so I guess I'll just go and fill my glass again.

[Lu Zuckerman]

Regarding alcohol on the flight deck, it is more true than you would expect at least in the case of the pilots I flew with. Some of them carried a bottle in their nav case when we were going to go out on a long range SAR search over water(14 hours). They called it engine smoothener.

My engineering officer had a nick name of "Shakey" I never knew why he was called Shakey until one day I saw him sober.

We flew in a Grumman Goose from Traverse City, MI to Buffalo, NY to resupply one of our helicopters on station at Niagra Falls to evacuate ice fisherman in case of an ice greak-up. The first thing Shakey did after landing was to look for a bar in the admin building. He found it but it was closed.

It was freezing cold outside and pretty soon, he sobered up. We had to fly from Buffalo to Brooklyn, NY via Philadelphia.
Shakey was so shakey that I a flight mechanic had to fly the airplane.

After landing he went straight to the officers mess for a few shots.

The flight back was even more interesting. I was in the process of fuelling the aircraft and the fuel truck operator walked away from the tank truck after turning the engine up to high speed. I only needed 10-15 gasllons per tank which held forty gallons each. The fuel was flowing so fast that the tank overflowed and I got soaked. I ended up screaming at the driver and meanwhile, I was shooting 91 octane gas into a snowbank behind the Goose.

My winter flight suit was reeking of gas so I had to fly back in my dress blues. The goose had dutch doors in the back so we opened the top door and put my flight suit in the back to air out. In order to get air flowing through the aircraft we had to open our windows. About fifteen minutes into the flight I was freezing as the heater system couldn't keep up and Shakey was sober. I had to fly the aircraft to Cleveland where the airplane and Shakey both got tanked up. He flew the rest of the way to Traverse City.

------------------
The Cat

[wonderbusdriver]

Mr. Benn:
Back in the days when I didn´t smoke yet...
On the 737 I always opened up all airoutlets on my FO-side (If they hadn´t asked me if, I minded) and calmly but precisely turned them right in the smokers face. Almost (!!!!) blew the cigarette out of their face.
I didn´t say a word, just kept up my friendly manner - most even started grinning then, and were rather embarrased.

Some other people need more subtle body-language...

[QAVION]

Is this more than just a lung health issue....?

During (engineering) ground checks on a 747-400, after a flight, I noticed that the cockpit smoke evacuation handle was out of place, locked in the half open position with a matchstick.

I commented on this to the crew flying out. They said this is sometimes done when one or more crewmembers insist on lighting up. The drawback being, if the handle is not put back in the correct place for the next flight, the next crew are sometimes faced with an unexpected and serious distraction (especially if they didn't see that the handle was out of place)... the sound of whooshing air on the takeoff roll in the back of the cockpit.

Could these careless smokers be charged with some something other than health violations?

Q.

[Arkroyal]

Mr Benn,

Same problem (might even be same bloke).

Insisted once that he stopped smoking, but the resulting reduction in his performance was alarming. Could make a big fuss, but he'll either retire soon, or die of lung cancer. Either way problem solved.I'm patient