Questions about crewing long-haul flights

[Nicholas49]

Afternoon all,

These questions relate to flight rather than cabin crew.

There were quite a few delays out of Heathrow yesterday afternoon (I don’t know why). Some relatives were on a flight to Beijing which departed about 2.5 hours later than schedule. Being a bit of a geek, their delay made me wonder what are the potential implications of a long-haul delay. If the delay is so substantial that the operating crew can no longer complete the flight within flight time regulations, I understand that a replacement crew is used and that this can cause further delay. More specifically, what I wanted to ask is:

- are there replacement crews on stand-by at the airport (e.g. Heathrow here) for long-haul flights? Or do the stand-by crew get a call at home, and then have to make their way to the airport to operate the flight? Could be difficult if you live far away?!

- once the replacement crew are at the airport and ready to operate, how is the flight handed over? Clearly, the flight planning, crew briefing and aircraft inspection has been done by the operating crew. Do the replacement crew have to start again from scratch in the dispatch room? Or can they go straight to the aircraft and take-over there? Presumably, the new captain must satisfy himself that his colleague did everything right (even if he has no reason whatsoever to doubt this is the case) because he now assumes the command responsibilities?

Thanks very much.

[Phileas Fogg]

Nicholas,

Talking UK regulations if the operator can predict a delay in advance then the crew will be informed of a delayed reporting time and they can be delayed from leaving their places of rest for a number of hours and without affecting the subsequent flight duty period they can perform.

If it is an unforeseen delay whereas the crew have reported then there is some leeway between their scheduled duty period and allowable duty period however in the event that they do go 'out of hours' then a replacement crew needs to be called-out from their places of rest.

Airport standby? What is the difference between a crew being at the airport sitting on backsides whilst flight delayed compared to crew being at airport sitting on backsides on airport standby? ... They are both on duty and running out of duty hours!

And why only flight crew and not cabin crew? ... The cabin crew are not just there to look pretty and serve drinks, they are there in the event of an incident whereas passengers need to disembark PDQ and fatigued cabin crew might well impact upon such a scenario!

[Bealzebub]

Nicolas,

As Phileas has said above, airport standby's for flight deck crew do occur from time to time, but they are rarely of any advantage for the reasons already stated. When crew are on standby they are normally required to be at an address where they can report at the airport within a period of 90 minutes to 2 hours from the call out, at a maximum. If you live far away then you would be required to arrange rest accomodation within the terms of your contract such that you do comply with the standby requirements.

When a standby is rostered, broadly speaking, you are allowed to complete 6 hours of "standby" and the full duty period applicable to the time band that duty starts in.

The replacement flight crew would "pre-flight" in just the same manner as any other flight. It is possible to do this on the aircraft in certain situations where much of the necessary information and material would be available, and where update information could also be supplied. However it is just as likely the process would start in the crew report / Op's room, as deemed prudent on the day.

Yes, the new Captain would satisfy himself in just the same way as any other flight. Obviously where a flight is already prepared by another crew that process might be shorter, but it wouldn't involve any assumptions that something had been done.

[Nicholas49]

The cabin crew are not just there to look pretty and serve drinks, they are there in the event of an incident whereas passengers need to disembark PDQ and fatigued cabin crew might well impact upon such a scenario!

There you go, tarnishing everyone with the same brush. I am perfectly aware that cabin crew, like flight crew, have regulated hours. I am also perfectly aware of the primary safety function of their job. Do not just assume that everyone has no knowledge of aviation. Rant over. Thank you for your reply.

Bealzebub: thanks for your reply. If I may pick up on a few points you made.

It is possible to do this on the aircraft in certain situations where much of the necessary information and material would be available, and where update information could also be supplied.

Probably an obvious question, but does this mean going to the flight deck and talking to the current crew?

However it is just as likely the process would start in the crew report / Op's room, as deemed prudent on the day.

In the second scenario, would it be necessary to dis-embark the passengers in order not to have them waiting on an un-crewed aircraft? (Assuming the same aircraft is used, of course).

[Phileas Fogg]

Nicholas,

I wasn't having a go at you!

You said that your question related to flight crew rather than cabin crew:

No it didn't Nicholas, both flight and cabin crew are regulated by the same, or very similar, regulations thus your question related to cabin crew just as much as it related to flight crew.

[Bealzebub]

I know that Nicholas asked the question as it specifically related to flight crew. Phileas was making the point that it went beyond that specific. I am also guilty of addressing a wider readership rather than a specific questioner at times, so I can sympathize and don't believe there was any offence intended.

To answer the supplementary questions:
Probably an obvious question, but does this mean going to the flight deck and talking to the current crew? In all probability you would, but it isn't necessary. A point to bear in mind, is that if the aircraft is boarded with passengers, then the crew (or most of them) would have to be in attendance until the next crew took over from them. If the passengers were not on board then it is irrelevant. The plogs (flight logs), weather and notams would proably be handed over from one crew to another if required, or left in the flight deck. It is just as possible that new or updated paperwork would have been acquired. In point of fact, these pre-flight issues don't take a great deal of time to complete, and as such don't add anything appreciable to an already delayed flight.

In the second scenario, would it be necessary to dis-embark the passengers in order not to have them waiting on an un-crewed aircraft? (Assuming the same aircraft is used, of course).

Yes, you cannot have passengers left on an un-crewed aircraft. Obviously, even though the aircraft is on the ground, that wouldn't preclude a fire or some other serious occurrence that might necessitate an evacuation, just to give one example.