Captains will become cabin crew

[Arnebarnebuse]

I've heard that all Norwegian crew members, included pilots, soon will receive new ID cards, and that the title will be "Cabin Crew" on all cards, including the pilots, which until now has been "Captain" etc. I guess that there will be protests.

[JSCL]

Protests? Oh god. I doubt it, very much. There's a very high cost in individual labelling - it is MUCH cheaper to bulk print 'cabin crew' and apply respective name and photo and much more efficient than all the unique labels.

Where's the issue? Oh wait there isn't one.

[Efe Cem Elci]

Well it depends if the design changes (different color, different logo, etc.) otherwise its not more costly to print "Captain" or "First Officer" when you are already personalizing the cards with a name and photo. I've been having cards printed for trade shows and events as well as company ID cards for the last 5 years.

[Andu]

Switching the thread title, in some airlines I've flown with, some cabin crew have considered themselves to be captains for years now...

[aviatorhi]

@JSCL I hope that's a bad attempt at sarcasm.

If they want to avoid printing rank on the cards they can go with "Flight Crew" and "Cabin Crew", or some derivative thereof. I would take it as a personal insult if someone "officially" made me call myself a sky waitress.

[Slasher]

I couldn't care one crap or another wether I'm called Captain
or Cabin Crew Boss. As far as I'm concerned I wear 4 stripes
so that Co personnel can identify my rank, nothing more and
nothing less.

Lets face it - there's no joy in this airline racket anymore, and
its become merely a means to an end to feed your family and
give you something to do when you'd otherwise loll around in
bed all day.

Cabin Crew, Pointy End Staff, Steering Committee Chairman,
Captain, Sky Waitress Senior Ogler etc - all the frigging same
to me.

[john_tullamarine]

Slasher, mate, your cynicism is starting to show ..

[Slasher]

Whatever gave you that idea John? ;)

[Bus429]

Does a civilian aircraft captain hold a rank or merely a grade in the company? I thought only commissioned military officers or those in the Salvation Army could be classified as Captains?

[Genghis the Engineer]

"Crew" ?

G

[parabellum]

There is no need to put anything on the ID card in words, lot of places use a different coloured background to the photograph for different grades/ranks/departments.

Could have Royal Blue for Tech Crew, Pink for Cabin Crew, sort of greeny brown for Engineers;) and so on! (Or, as Genghis suggests, just write 'Crew').

[Slasher]

Does a civilian aircraft captain hold a rank or merely a grade in the company?

Its actually a rank and an appointment. When at work and in
uniform the proper address is "captain". Outside work and out
of uniform the address does not apply ( but thumb through a
local phone book to see w@nkers who insist otherwise ).

Only a Captain within the Military holds solely a rank, though
his appointment might be in any area of the Service he is in,
and is titled by convention whether in uniform or not. Also he
retains the title after active service (usually with a "Retired"
suffix).

Also a civilian airline captain does not get saluted at all. A
salute is an official acknowledgment of a military rank and
uniform.

[McGoonagall]

Only a Captain within the Military holds solely a rank, though
his appointment might be in any area of the Service he is in,
and is titled by convention whether in uniform or not. Also he
retains the title after active service (usually with a "Retired"
suffix).

Also in the military a captain may be a title and not a substantive rank. The CO (Captain) of a RN ship or submarine may be a LtCdr, Cdr or historically a Lt. Captain of the Gunhouse was a Petty Officer. I myself was Captain of the Heads more than once as a young AB. :suspect:

[Bus429]

Slasher,

I like your reply. When I've had the temerity to ask this in the past, the usual riposte has been "we've earned and deserved respect", "we can call ourselves captain outside work". You're right about the local phone book; in a similar manner, many aviation groups, committees and even regulators have members of staff addressed as "Captain" (and some no longer fly!).

[Piltdown Man]

My company can print whatever they like on a name tag. My job is the same. However, I would be very miffed if I had to do a "second tea and coffee" during the descent even if "Aviation Hero and all round guy" was printed on my name badge.

It's the job that counts, not the moniker.

PM

[HowlingMad Murdock]

Slasher/McGoonagall - thanks for postin' info - interesting! :)

[Avionker]

A salute is an official acknowledgment of a military rank and
uniform.

In the British Armed Forces a salute is given to holders of the Queens commission as a mark of respect to the monarch, not the person wearing the uniform or the rank they hold. Commissioned officers return the salute on the monarchs behalf.

[HowlingMad Murdock]

What about a 'private' pilot.....can he/she be called 'Captain' whilst in charge of an aircraft? (Aircraft commander/pilot is mentioned in the books pub. by Pooley's for the PPL) :)

[gobfa]

I can see problems when these ID Cards appear for the first time at Security.

"Sorry guv, can't let you through, It clearly says Cabin Crew here and you are you dressed in a Captains uniform ?"

[Slasher]

not the person wearing the uniform.....

A salute has NEVER been towards a person in any branch of
any military in any armed force anywhere in the world, even
in North Korea. I didn't believe it needed mentioning.

The UK Navy has its salutation origins through tradition. In
that same tradition the RAF, saluting commissioned officers
relates to the commission given by the Queen to that officer.
When a subordinate airman salutes an officer, he's indirectly
acknowledging the Queen as the head of State. The salute
returned by the officer is on behalf of the Queen, same as the
RN as you mention in your post.

As in the Canadian military, a serving RAAF officer does not
receive an acknowledgment of rank nor commission unless
that officer is in full uniform - so if his cap is missing he is
not in full uniform (same with Madam WAAFs), although I
believe a RN WRNS (Wren) is in a category all to herself.

[john_tullamarine]

I guess one caveat is for a VC ?

ACM Angus Houston observed following TPR Mark Donaldson's award ceremony (as reported in "Air Force" magazine) - “It will be my great honour from this day forth to salute TPR Mark Donaldson, VC,” CDF said.

[Slasher]

From what I remember John there's a belief that its standard
for all ranks to salute the bearer of a Victoria Cross, but there
is no official requirements appearing in the Warrant of the VC
(1856?) nor in any of the Queen Regulations and Orders. But
it seems that tradition dictates it occurs, and all the Chiefs of
Staff will salute a Private (equivalent of a RAF AC) awarded a
VC.

In the RAAF a Victoria Cross holder of whatever rank will stand
on the dais alongside the highest commissioned rank during a
Parade passing out salute.

[john_tullamarine]

Beyond my detailed knowledge.

However, reading an account of Ben Roberts-Smith's action in another document - which sent chills down my spine - I can only observe that chaps with such b.o.s. certainly deserve whatever respectful acknowledgement others might accord.

[mona lot]

Will said Captains be getting a payrise with their promotion to Cabin crew?