where are Allan and Bruce?

[QFinsider]

where is Wally and Wally?

A low cost carrier grounded over numerous discrepancies and no defence of the LOW COST MODEL.

Didn't Bruce allude to outsourcing of many things as "World's Best Practice" ? Whilst in house training at Qantas may be as Joyce says a "cultural thing" is it a good thing to outsource? It may come to be that trying to save a dollar sacrificed more than they ever gained.... as a business. Low price airfares are simply not sustainable, something must give.

The problem we have in the modern Australia is that 'operational specialists' have been marginalised, replaced by well drilled graduates who know the price of everything, but the cost of nothing. It may work with widgets, but it didn't work with NASA, it doesn't work with hospitals and it certainly doesn't work with airlines.

Anyone wanting to read and see where "commercial pressure" led NASA ought read "The Normalization of Deviance-The Challenger Launch Decision"

[LetsGoRated]

Well said QF :ugh:

[SOPS]

well said QF.....I hope (though I doubt it) the end of LCC is in sight

[chockchucker]

Have heard rumors suggesting that CASA have grounded six Jetstar A320's due 'maintenance issues' along the lines of checks due not being done.


Perhaps AJ and BB are using the cover of the current tiger fiasco to divert media attention away from what they have been getting up to within their own organizations?:=


Anybody able to confirm above rumor re: grounded A320's?

[metrosmoker]

Where did you hear that rumour? Why you were walking through your Flight Simulator terminal, about to board your Flight Simulator aircraft where you are the Captain on a Ultra Long Haul flight to some exotic destination where some hot flight attendant throws herself at you and then...... you woke up and realised where your hand was.

If CASA grounded over 10% of an airlines fleet it would be more well known then in your make believe world.


Errr, NO. It clearly states that Jetstar grounded their own aircraft. Absolutely no mention of, or any involvement from CASA. Sounds more like a proactive response from an airline that puts safety ahead schedule.
And in over 40 years of living, humble is something I have never been accused of. As for an apology, I shouldn`t have called him a clown. there was nothing funny that he wrote.

['holic]

Errr, maybe you should check out Plane Talking before coming out all guns blazing. Standing by for your humble apology to chockchucker. Lol

[UPPERLOBE]

Jetstar grounds six jets flights in chaos | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/07/08/jetstar-grounds-six-jets-flights-in-chaos/)
:eek:

[remoak]

Wake up you clown.

Lol I haven't seen anyone own themselves quite that comprehensively in a very long time! Hope the hole in your foot heals quickly... :D:D:D

[allthecoolnamesarego]

Proves that Mum's are correct when they say "Think before you speak (type)"
and "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all"

Great stuff!!!

(It's nice to be important, but it's important to be nice:p:p)

[UPPERLOBE]

Metro it is human to err and divine to hold your hand up and admit to a stuff up.

He said it was "rumoured that CASA" had grounded those a/c, maybe J* pre empted them, I'm sure more will come out later today.

Hahahahaha, I too have not seen better job of foot in mouth for ages. :D

[The Kelpie]

Bens story has vaporised!

[1a sound asleep]

Bens story has vaporised!

Sounds like somebody spreading rumours on twitter maybe?

Here's the content, cached on my pc -

Jetstar grounds six jets, flights in chaos

July 8, 2011 – 10:18 am, by Ben Sandilands


Jetstar has grounded five A320s and one A321 apparently because of maintenance issues.

There are reports via Twitter by affected passengers of a total shambles at airports served by the carrier.

Just added

There are some angry tweets in the twitterverse this morning concerning Jetstar flight delays and a lack of information as to the cause, and there are claims being made that Jetstar had grounded six of its single aisle jets which Jetstar has categorically denied.

If this matter can be cleared up this post will be updated. Otherwise, its Friday, and let’s hope your flights are on time

[waren9]

That link is dead. How about another one?

Maybe Sandilands has retracted something:eek:

Oh wait, hes just published this Some confusion at Jetstar this morning | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/07/08/some-confusion-at-jetstar-this-morning/)

[Ka.Boom]

A cowboy hat for the cowboy running a cowboy outfit.
Will CASA let a mob like this introduce a new aircraft type ?...787

[The Kelpie]

Just posted by Ben

Jetstar stuffs up, unstuffs, paperwork issues
July 8, 2011 – 11:21 am, by Ben Sandilands
Updated and re-titled

There are some angry tweets in the twitterverse this morning concerning Jetstar flight delays and a lack of information as to the cause, and there are claims being made that Jetstar had grounded six of its single aisle jets which Jetstar has categorically denied.

Plane Talking has been told* that Jetstar discovered yesterday that it had missed some maintenance inspection on six jets, five A320s and one A321, and set about satisfying this requirements, which could be fulfilled in a comparatively short period of time, with as little disruption to its operations as possible. However these inspections did cause some disruption.* The missed inspections were not what would be considered a serious or immediate threat to safety, but the fact that they were missed is unsatisfactory.

[Short_Circuit]

But of cause there was no safety issue (as usual) :}:yuk:


(Sarcasm!! people )

[mcgrath50]

A missed inspection is a fairly large safety issue isn't it?

We aren't talking about missing a cars yearly service here, the aviation industry has agreed (for better or worse) that checks must be carried out at x times otherwise the aircraft could have a wing fall off at x.1 hours. We all know it's not the case, but isn't the point of RPT to avoid these GA style mistakes?

[BombsGone]

Of course there was a risk to safety, albeit minor. It is when the system does not proactively find and fix such errors that it becomes an airworthiness concern. Not saying that is the case here, and reporting such incidents to CASA is a good sign. The spin of "no risk to safety" however is unprofessional and shows the disconnect between operations and the companies PR people.

[RENURPP]

more like a proactive response from an airline that puts safety ahead schedule.

I shouldn`t have called him a clown. there was nothing funny that he wrote

No, but yours certainly is :E :E

Bogan Air publish a schedule, but thats about it. It certainly doesn't reflect the times they come and go!

Safety first, what absolute garbage. $$$$ before safety and who cares about a schedule once the suckers have a ticket. They can wait :mad:

[gruntyfen]

How to treat your customers.

YouTube - ‪FlyLo's Ground Crew Strike - Come Fly With Me - BBC One‬‏

[metrosmoker]

Once again we gloss over what we dont want to acknowledge and focus on what makes us feel good.
If everyone practiced what Mum preaches, then things would get real quiet on here real quick.
Back to the point.

The "rumour" or "accusation" leveled was that CASA had grounded Jetstar aircraft. I simply stated that was bu!!shi! and that if they had it would be all over the news.
Nothing in anyway in the article indicates or implies any involvement from CASA whatsoever.
If he actually 'heard' a rumour, I still put it to him, it was whilst he was sleeping. I suspect he in fact had read the article and misquoted the content.

Very big difference with even bigger difference in consequences between CASA grounding aircraft and an airline admitting a mistake and rectifying the issue with no cover up.

No hole in my foot, nor is my foot in my mouth. (I can`t find the up yours icon)

[Spotlight]

Obviously metrosmoker is correct. I wouldn,t fly Jetstar on my own dollar, but this OBVIOUSLY is a system safety net working.

[Going Nowhere]

Jetstar grounds four aircraft for checks | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/jetstar-grounds-four-aircraft-for-checks/story-e6frfku0-1226090837844)

[The Kelpie]

What about the other two that where reported earlier (6 total)?

I hope that Westaway's replacement hasn't thrown us and the press a bone to chew on that does not harm JQ too much and left the real juicy stuff on the other two aircraft out.

Just call me suspicious!!

More to Follow

The Kelpie

[RENURPP]

A CASA spokesman said the aviation watchdog would check to ensure that Jetstar's maintenance systems are robust.

Well excuse Mr CASA but I can answer that question for you. Their maintenance systems are not robust, proof? They overlooked maintenance on at least 4 aircraft that we know of, and all within a very short time frame.
Of course the right palms are greased, so this will end up under a nice little rug somewhere.

[ejectx3]

Ipads anyone?

[chockchucker]

Sorry metro, what I heard came straight from sources within Jetstar at ground level.


If I read something in an article I'll attribute it as such. I don't dream stuff up to put on prune.



I simply asked for a rumor to be confirmed. Seems to me a light has been shined onto something that needed to be seen.



Seems to me Jetstar were given the option to ground aircraft voluntarily before CASA did that job for them.



Certainly not the same treatment received by Tiger ( not that either operator deserves any leaniency) and I note that CASA continue to 'monitor' the situation

[Prince Niccolo M]

I do not believe the "look at me, look at me, safety before everything" crap that Joyce and Buchanan have started dribbling constantly since being exposed at the Senate Inquiry for what they are doing to the Australian aviation industry.

I wouldn' mind betting that there was an "off the record" call to CASA Airworthiness saying "what if we found this, what are the chances of a maintenance extension?" which came back in the negative, because we all know that the well-looked-after Jetstar employees would have blown the whistle in a heartbeat. When you know the lie of the land in such circumstances, having "never asked the question", you can schedule the overdue maintenance and proclaim to the world at large that you did this
honourable" thing all by yourself, before "confessing" to an understanding regulator that you had a minor whoopsie.

And your reward:

CASA does not believe that there were any serious safety issues caused by the need to complete the tasks overnight.

Sounds like Olivia, Simon and CASA PR having a threesome, doesn't it...:suspect: :suspect: :suspect:

[gobbledock]

More spin, more ****e. Firstly, if maintenance is overlooked on 4 aircraft causing an immediate grounding then the system is NOT working. Its nice that it was picked up eventually, but that is a corrective action, not the root cause. A problem exists and it is a safety concern.
Secondly, if CASA is using the term 'robust' then that itself is proof that something is amiss. That is a favorite political spin deflection word they love to roll out. Fools.

As for Tiger and its grounding, dont be fooled by the real issues. The incompetent Albanese needs a scapegoat after the senate inquiry, Tiger is it. Albanese and Fort Fumble weild some clout in an effort to detract from the public the fact that the government and CASA have completely lost control of aviation safety. Its an old smoke and mirrors trick aimed at fooling the public. Are Tiger any worse than JQ ?? You be the judge.

Tiger is a dead cub, finished. Conveniently Singapore mainline can pull the money loser out of Australia and Singapore mainline can then come back in a strong 'relationship' with Virgin, something it has been looking for, for a long long time. Then, the ACCC will be happy with the level of competition, and QF will have a strong yet limited competition helping to protect is longevity as a national icon.

Do not be fooled, airlines in Australia do not get shut down or grounded solely based on safety concerns, that is complete bulls#it, airlines are shafted on a politically motivated agenda, safety is not a concern, it is a convenient excuse.

[metrosmoker]

Straight from the source is not a rumour then. It is fact.
If it was a rumour, then you would have been the one who was able to confirm it.
Once again, there is a big difference between CASA grounding an aircraft (a massive and damaging news story)and an operator doing such. Also what is clearly stated is that, if Jet* did not inform CASA of the issue, then CASA probably would be none the wiser until the next audit.

As far a CASA monitoring the situation, I think you are trying to draw a long bow keeping CASA in a story, they originally had nothing to do with.

My foot is still on the ground.

[gobbledock]

Metropolesmoker, are you an FOI, field office manager, one of the Skulls star chamber supporters or one of the RAAF people who now call the shots at Fort Fumble ??

[chockchucker]

Metro smoker, I said straight from A source. Not THE source. Hence , it remained a rumor. Albeit, as it turns out, quite a strong one.



Sounds to me like their might be a few inconvenient truths surrounding the Jetstar operation that you, and others like Joyce and Buchanan, would rather not make the light of day and public scrutiny.



You sound to me like most senior managers with the wider JQ and QF group. Nothing bad is ever a result of your incompetence. It's all a media beat-up, or the fault of the employees and those pesky unions.



I take some comfort that the whole Tiger situation, the recent senate report, and these latest admissions from Jetstar ( no doubt the tip of the ice-berg if the truth be known) might just shine a light on what current senior management are trying to do to denigrate standards. Be it through lack of maintenance staff or reduced training standards. All in the desire to save a few bucks to add to a kpi bonus.

[Oakape]

If I remember rightly, the problems Ansett had with the 767's were discovered by Ansett engineering. Ansett addressed the issues & self reported to CASA. I believe these problems were missed inspections on one occasion & a deactivated slide on the other.

CASA's response to the self reporting was to ground the 767 fleet for a period of time on both occasions - Christmas & Easter.

Will CASA be doing the same here & grounding Jetstar's A320 fleet while they investigate the missed inpections? After all, it is holiday time, which seems to be their favourite time for groundings. 2 weeks ought to do it!