Heathrow taxy guidance lighting

[Bedder believeit]

Does EGLL still have the guidance lighting for taxiing aircraft so that aircraft can be instructed to "Follow the greens", or has that gone out with the new tower? Thanks

[Megaton]

I certainly hope so otherwise I followed some spurious green lights all the way to my stand this morning!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Yep... reds and greens still there!

[25check]

Are there any other airports in the world with a similar system?

[Bedder believeit]

Thanks for the simple honest reply H.D., which was what I was looking for, not the smart a***d comment from Ham.

[Out Of Trim]

25 check

Yes, London - Gatwick has this system too.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Bedder... Don't take offence at Ham Phisted. He's an experienced pilot who offered an accurate answer with a bit of humour.... and he sure needs that operating out of Heathrow!

[Bedder believeit]

Sorry H.D. but I'm an experienced controller (40 plus years) and I was discussing the pro's and con's of the Heathrow system with a class of Hong Kong tower students. Call me light, but I do take offence.

[autothrottle]

Hi

I am a Heathrow Lighting Operator, if you have any questions I'd be more than happy to help.

Singapore has a similar system and I believe one of the Tokyo airports does.

It seems some people would prefer a "sea of greens" , any opinions appreciated.

Bedder , we have recently had some Hong Kong students visit and they were mighty impressed. Out of interest , what pro's and Con's did you come up with? Only asking as we are working on some "Best Practice" literature at the moment.

A/t

[Megaton]

Auto throttle

You switched the lights off just as I was approaching the stand....fortunately it was broad daylight by then :)

Reds and greens at Heathrow are the dogs whotsits especially after a 12+ hr flt from a former British colony in the Far East :ok::ok::ok::ok:

[Bedder believeit]

Auto, the six students I have at the moment would be the ones that visited you recently. They came back from their UK course about a month ago. I will speak to them further about Heathrow ops tomorrow. Good kids.

[25check]

> You switched the lights off just as I was approaching the stand....fortunately it was broad daylight by then

Blimey, how long did it take for you to taxy in?! I didn't think LHR was that bad...:)

[Mushroom_2]

Are there any other airports in the world with a similar system?

LBA has - bit less complex though!

[airpolice]

I had a play with that lighting panel during a visit to the tower just before xmas.

What a stunning piece of hardware that is.

To see the effects of the various options, replicated on the big flat screen was fantastic. As it happens, late afternoon in winter allows you to see it out of the window anyway, but the confirmation and the pre programmed "routes" made it all look so easy. I'm sure it must ease lots of headaches, for Pilots and Controllers.

[autothrottle]

Ham,

This time of year they go off very early indeed , around the time of the BAW26,28 OR VIR201 (if you are referring to HKG)!

Bedder,

Yeah they certainly were very switched on and very polite...a pleasure to show round!

A/t

[Megaton]

We were the BAW26 and I was taxying very slowly - still have L plates!

[Red Dragon]

DXB and DWC (Al Maktoum) do.

:ok:

[Piltdown Man]

May I assume that the the pro's and con's of "follow the greens" was discussed from an ATC viewpoint. Over the years I have become used to someone else apparently speaking on my behalf, without ever asking me about my opinion. For what it's worth, I love the follow the "follow the greens" if for no other reason than it allows us to vacate, check-in and start taxiing away from the active runway. During LVP's it also gives you a certain level of confidence that you are not being a complete tit.

PM

[Shrimps]

I think Munich may have a similar system in place.

[Minesthechevy]

25check - you think you jest - but when I was a Panel Operator, a SAA B747 was told he'd have a near-2-hour wait for his stand; after a moment of contemplation, he came out with a classic - 'And I thought this was a first-world country....'

Ive been out of it for 5 years now, but doing the lights was the best job I could have ever found.

Piltdown Man - Sometimes, on very rare occasions*, the L/Ops might not have been quite as quick as Captain Speaking might have liked - and I appreciate, it's frustrating to be looking at a bar with nothing apparently beyond it. I well remember some plank of a pilot (small twin-prop, well known airline) /telling/ us he was crossing a bar, then coming face to face with the rather larger aeroplane he was supposed to be giving way to...... If he'd been in anything larger, he couldn't have done the powered 180deg turn that got him out of it.

* maybe less rare when I was on duty ;-)

[hangten]

I think by CAP168 standards (in the UK) all airfields that operate in RVRs of less than 400m will have such a system, it's just that so far as I know only Heathrow and Gatwick operate them as switchable at night regardless of weather.

[autothrottle]

Minesachevvy,

Ahh, sir.

The days when you guys did the job are significantly different. Things have moved on from when you departed monsieur. We now have strips, yes strips. No more memorising traffic, pushbacks or writing towing traffic on clipboards. You will remember ground radar with labels, but you remember also ground radar primary only.

It is less demanding in some ways but adding T5 into the equation means scanning a larger area.

Respect to you sir , you did the job when GMC was never split, with few if any , of the tools we have today.

A/t

[Minesthechevy]

Kind words, A/T, for which I can feel the lurve.....

Before anyone who knows us both says 'For Gods sake, get a room', I didn't know about the strips. Very logical, indeed. Do they get amended when push is approved?

[autothrottle]

Affirm, they move automatically from one bay to the next. Better than trying to remember if N86 OR A5 had been given approval to push before routing aircraft on the inner!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Bit different from the days with Ronnie Radar and the Telemove tape round his neck! Bet there's nobody left up there who has a clue what I'm talking about.

[Minesthechevy]

Ah, the Inner.... Pushback on the Deltas.... JP telling a pilot she'd just been screwed in the Victors.... the memories come flooding back.

[autothrottle]

HD,

Young bunch now, many of whom were not around until the late '80's! However Andy Macgregor is still there, well unyil November anyway!

Screwed in the victors? Well I have seen someone get screwed in the Bravo's!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Andy must be about 105 now? Late 80s.. I would have worked with them as I didn't leave til '92. They're all supermen/women as far as I'm concerned.

[terrain safe]

JP telling a pilot she'd just been screwed in the Victors

Was said in a high pitched voice followed by massive giggling by everyone else. Whereupon JP realised what was said and went bright red to outright guffawing. Probably funnier than the Virgin....

[Eric T Cartman]

My 4 Lighting Panel heroes - Bob Cook, Eric George, Trevor Tapsall & Eric Dallison. Anyone remember the problems when the VCR got a new carpet in the early 70's ? The static from it was nasty - I walked past Cookie one night when he was on the panel & put my finger near the back of his neck - he went so upright, you'd have thought Douglas Bader had just entered the room ;)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Bob Cook, Eric George, Trevor Tapsall & Eric Dallison>>

At least three no longer with us.... and remember John MacPherson, Ivan Saunders, Clem Cleminson, Mike Davis et al. A most amazing bunch of people.

There was a story that Eric Mather (the moth man) was showing some visitors the lighting panel one day and he directed their gaze to someone working on the taxiway in the far distance.. "See that chap out there? He's working on the taxiway light and with one press of this button I can blow him up" (or words to that effect). No wonder visitors always thought we were totally mad!

They must have also thought the whole place was mad when the guys came round to water the carpets to keep down the static..

[Brian 48nav]

Bren you sold yourself short - you were at LL until Oct'93!

Do you remember John Wood, Ltg' Op' on B watch? Smashing guy!

John went on a holiday to somewhere exotic to the East and came back with loads of 'copy' stuff. On his first N duty back he arrived for work in the 6th floor Approach Room and Derek H said there's someone here who wants to talk to you. DH pointed to a very dark part of the room where John could just make out a figure in HM Customs uniform. His face went ashen and I guess his knees turned to jelly,'Oh my gawd' he must have been thinking,' I should have kept quiet about that gear'.

He went across to the Customs man who was finding it increasingly difficult to keep a straight face. 'I've come to question you about contraband' or words to that effect, said he. Then he burst out laughing took off his cap and hey presto! It was Kev McMahon, who had borrowed his brother's ( a genuine customs man )uniform.

I bet 'Reds and Greens' were interesting for Kev after that!

Lighting operators - great guys and girls - a bit like hairy old Flt Engineers, you upset them at your peril!

[autothrottle]

Great story Brian,

Hairy old flight engineers eh? I like it!

Hope retirement is treating you well and keeping you busy. You are not missing much...

Cheers

A/t

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Brilliant story, Brian. Oct '93 was it? Oh well, my tattered brain isn't firing on all cylinders now!

[HHI OPS]

Correct - Munich also have a similar system.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

But I believe that Heathrow was the first airport in the world to employ such a system.

[cambioso]

I seem to remember that most 2nd halves (I usually did about 2 a year you will recall!), I had to do my own lights because you were snoring in your sleeping bag on the VCR floor Chevy........
Happy days, except when (frequently) I blew the lights up and had to wake you anyway eh?
Jezza.

[Minesthechevy]

Hi Jez

<< I had to do my own lights because you were snoring in your sleeping bag on the VCR floor>>

Why have a Rottweiler and bark yourself?:E:E

You wouldn't believe the effort I put in over the years into designing a combined Panel/fold-up bed....... or maybe you would......

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Loved that Jezz... In the days when there were TWO ATCOs in the tower at night, we were messing with the lights writing "XOX" on the inner and outer taxiways. Brian Buckingham (RIP) was the lighting op and he pressed a switch and reduced the airfield to total blackness to frighten us to death. Seconds later approach warned in a Vanguard at 10 miles and Brian couldn't get the lights on again. Some fairly frantic phone calls and hands flashing around like lightning restored the lights as the Guardsvan passed the marker!! Happy days...

[ex-EGLL]

TWO on nights and you being one of them..... well before my time!!

Never did manage to tame the lighting panel with more than one aircraft moving.