Australian LAME SOE

[Kev85]

Hi guys.

I'm an avionics AME and I'm considering working towards a license on one of the airliners. For Soe purposes am I better doing line or heavy maintenance? In the long run which is a better career path?

[going down-under]

Best experience ever is a hangar job with AOG situations and up to A-checks. Guys in heavy maintenance often get lazy (here in EU at least) because if they don't finish the job, the next shift will.
Hangar guys have all the hands on experience, seen the aircraft more in dept, while line guys only now and than will have to go into systems.

Get your hands dirty in the hangar for a few years (approx.5-10 yrs) and you'll be a hotshot in line later.

All the best

[SMOC]

Heavy, as an example for mechanical AMEs they need to change a cockpit window as part of the SOE, they'll never do that in line maintenance.

Look at what's required for SOE besides hours, there are some jobs that must be done in certain chapters and those jobs are rarely if ever done during line maint.

[spannersatcx]

they'll never do that in line maintenance. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, never say never!

[Avionker]

Guys in heavy maintenance often get lazy (here in EU at least) because if they don't finish the job, the next shift will.

Some truth in that, however is someone is lazy, then they are going to be lazy regardless of where they work aren't they?

On the flip side if you are doing a big job, in heavy maintenance there is a possibility of seeing it all the way through. On the line the next shift are probably more likely to continue with it.

For my tuppenceworth heavy maintenance is the best bet to really get to know the aircraft inside out.

[cone zone]

You really need to experience a bit of both to know what path to take. But without doubt you will acquire the SOE quicker in a heavy maintenance environment.

[SMOC]

Spanners, which A/C? Apologies, did my apprenticeship on the 747 in heavy maint. Can't imagine trying to change a L1 or R1 window at the gate :}

However you're right I've heard stories of HAECO changing engines, landing gear at the gate so never say never.

What I should have said is it'll take a lot longer to get the required SOE on the line, I found C checks were usually the best for collecting SOE.

I came across a line LAME having had the main deck freight moved was getting the floorboards lifted on 747 freighter to get access to a cargo fire detector / potable water pressurization problem, they could hear the air leak. He was surprised when I said why aren't you just going through the forward cargo, when I showed him he said sorry he's never done heavy maint and didn't know that access was possible through fwd cargo.

Never got the opportunity to do line maint, but would imagine a solid heavy maint background would be of benefit, however I know some heavy guys that aren't comfortable with the speed of line maint or the use of the MEL and would rather fix it to the detriment of OTP. But that would come with time on the line.

[ironchefflay]

If an A/C is stuck down route with a no-go problem, you could do almost anything on the line if necessary. that said, you'll find it really hard to get the experience needed for a licence if purely doing line work.

if you go onto helicopters however, you can do both at the same time. theres a few places where you can do both on fixed wing, but helicopters are often a one stop shop.

[spannersatcx]

Did 17 years in base/hangar work before vernturing on the line for the last 16, yes base/hangar experience is very good at giving you an edge on the line as, hopefully, you gain a real insight into things you don't NORMALLY see when on the line.

When things break, as they do, on the line not everyone has the luxury of nipping into a hangar. Engine changes on the ramp aren't too difficult with a bootstrap, done flap changes, windscreen changes etc mostly on 747's on the ramp, it can get interesting trying to change a flap in the snow with a 20 knot breeze!:{

[johnrhx]

Hi Kev85, you should familiarise yourself with the latest changes to the Aussie regs. The new EASA Part 66 licence has devalued the Avionics trade significantly. You might want to consider structures and engines as well. Having what we use to call 5 cat. coverage i.e Engines, Airframe, Electrical, Instruments and Radio will make you much mor employable.

J

[cone zone]

Hi Kev85,

johnrhx is wrong about avionics being devalued. The main change is that FULL B1 guys will have some extra priveliges in Elec and minimal LRU replacement priveliges. There will still be a real requirement for Avionics guys in heavy and line environments.

good luck

[Kuchan]

Now, all courses are B1 and B2.

Contractor job are mainly B1 in the hanger.

B1 with B2 are appeared more in job search.

Avionic will be a history. But many B1 are useless in Wiring Diagram Manual.

More B2 are taking B1 exam to be B1.

Most line defects including APU change are done by line people outside in the open hanger with a few exception if the hanger is available. It costs over three thousands pounds to hire a hanger for a day. Will your boss think you are indispensable to be warm in the hanger.

Line nowadays is is a small kid job with computer literate mind to fix most defects. A380 CBs reset are mainly done using onboard PC. IFE is mainly the cabin defects which is normally fixed by hard reset. Same for most ECAM defects.

Hanger experience provides basic in deep training. Line job is challenging and most of the time is to kick the tires.

Avionic???????? wil be only fairy tale soon. It is mainly one man per aircraft on line. Expecting B1 to open a panel for you by dragging him away from his departure aircraft.

[cone zone]

kuchan,

must be a different world where you come from.

I am not even sure where you are headed with the warm hangar remark (I work in the tropics on line with no hangar, not often cold but usually wet.

Can a B2 or computer nerd kid fault find a nasty autopilot defect or loop fault in a pnumatic overhear sensor??


Opening panels is very challenging apparently, must be some compliacated tooling required there! Heaven forbid the avionics guy may even reseal the panel with goop when he is finished (in between departing aircraft).

As I said it must be a different world over there.

[Fargoo]

Line nowadays is is a small kid job with computer literate mind to fix most defects. A380 CBs reset are mainly done using onboard PC. IFE is mainly the cabin defects which is normally fixed by hard reset. Same for most ECAM defects.

Wow! Who do you work for? Any jobs going, sounds like a piece of cake :ugh:

[Kuchan]

Indeed, we are on different world. UK is cold and AU is warm. UK is EASA B1 B2. AU, SG, MY is ?????

The aviation engineering is changing now.

Comet 3C was my first aircraft which requires a lot of engineering diagnose.

B707, B727,B737, B757,767, A300, A310. needs lot of brain activity.

A320, A330 A340 and esp A380 is a different world. AFS and autoland test is a doodle using MCDU.

A1 approval can even fix most ECAM faults by pulling FWC and SDAC CBs, and from MCDU system fault test.

Wanna a job, Get your EASA B1 B2, preferably UK CAA EASA. There are jobs for the experienced LAE. Be warned, you will be on your own without an artisan or mechanics helping you on a turn round.

[spannersatcx]

fix most ECAM faults by pulling FWC you mean gets rid of the message!

[Kuchan]

Mainly for Airbus families

pulling FWC and SDAC CBs on overhead panel= software reset= get rid of the white msg, class 1, and some amber fault.

ECAM fault= C/O MCDU system test, Fault normally disappears.

No fix, take the CBs reset quick reference bible book, pull CBs downstairs ( hardware reset) as per the bible.

No fix, do hard reset

No fix, BITE, re-rack black box.

No fix, you are in trouble. Call B1 or B2 LAE to start TSM. That is less than 5 % you need to trouble them.

no fix, MEL.

Not MELable. Leave it to next shift.

B777 use onboard AMM to trouble shooting.

Avionic is no more in EASA. . It is B2 now. and B1 is doing more of Avionic works.

[flame_bringer]

''''
Kuchan
Mainly for Airbus families

pulling FWC and SDAC CBs on overhead panel= software reset= get rid of the white msg, class 1, and some amber fault.

ECAM fault= C/O MCDU system test, Fault normally disappears.

No fix, take the CBs reset quick reference bible book, pull CBs downstairs ( hardware reset) as per the bible.

No fix, do hard reset

No fix, BITE, re-rack black box.

No fix, you are in trouble. Call B1 or B2 LAE to start TSM. That is less than 5 % you need to trouble them.

no fix, MEL.

Not MELable. Leave it to next shift.

''''

If thats the way you work and thats your minframe then I really feel sorry for your employer & co-workers.

[Kuchan]

flame_bringer quote "If thats the way you work and thats your minframe then I really feel sorry for your employer & co-workers. "

Don't feel sorry for me. I am £ in every minute. 99% aircraft went on time. That 1% need more time to TSM. That is more £ every minute.

Have a sense of UK humour, leaving it to next shift is just a common joke.

My employer wouldn't let be go and my co-workers are a bunch of good laughter.

Don't break an aircraft if it is not broken. Airbus new generation aircraft is different from B737.
A380 has remote CBs reset from onboard PC in the cockpit.

Sorry you never work on LINE. I hardly use my tool. It is a pen, a torch, a leathermen and a company approval stamp.

[flame_bringer]

Don't forget that new genration aircraft are 80% avionics (eg fly by wire no more control rods and pulleys and everything is wired and computerized).
I don't see where the B1 part in there.

""Sorry you never work on LINE. I hardly use my tool. It is a pen, a torch, a leathermen and a company approval stamp.""
Talk about yourself or your company norms never generalize, In where I work the avionics do everything ( eg opening panels sealing panels assist in the mechanical work towing pushback jacking assist in engine changes assist in wheel changes ..... and the list goes on)., plus we do the part that none of the mechanical guys ever bothered to take a look at which is wiring repairs and wiring manuals ESPMs (even though it's an EASA requirment that they demostrate competence at wiring manuals & repairs to obtain thier full B1) ..etc and frankly speaking iIv never come across a B1 engineer that even knows how to read a basic wiring manual or knows how to fetch the info from the ESPM.

To dispense with the avonics or the B2 category is impropable and same goes with B1 everyone does his job and both are indispensable.

[Kuchan]

22 years old, Bahrain, Avionic..........

Read my lip " B2" in EASA.

We live in a difference world, too far apart.

[flame_bringer]

Right first off B2 in EASA is avionics so when I say avionics I would mean B2, Just because you don't work properly eg pulling the FWC c/b and when the status message is cleared you assume you fixed the defect or dumping all of your work to the next shift and relying on the B1 guys to do your troubleshooting and being to lazy to open up panels or use the right tools does not mean the whole B2 stuff is useless or avionics is no more needed in the industry or whatever crap you have mentioned thats why I stressed on talk about yourself.
I can find a lot of loafers that own a B1 license aswell.
license is nothing it's just a piece of paper and owning a B1+B2 or whatever does not mean you're a hotshot engineer the only thing that proves this is dedication and hardwork and if you're going to follow the above mentioned attitude at work you'd render yourself useless regardless of what licenses you have.
It doesn't matter how long you've been in the industry or how much expertise you possess if you're a lazy :mad: you will always be irrelevant of long you've been around or what qualifications you have or where you live.
Avionics is rather desirable and there is always an opening for B2 engineers whether in the hangar or the line and that's a fact.
Good day.

[Kuchan]

With my admiration at 22, you do write good English. But, watch my lips again, "Line" not hanger.

Every one has to go thru 5 years of apprenticeship from hardship to hard **** getting the hands dirty.

Please keep the aircraft flying by all means. Don't break it and don't touch any button or panel unnecessary.

Keeping aircraft in the air pays my wages.

Avionic trade is not used in this part of the world any more. It has a new name as B2 so that the fairy image is going to be forgotten.

[flame_bringer]

Category B2 (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=177&pagetype=90&pageid=4447) Maintenance Certifying Technician (Avionic): B2 aircraft maintenance licence + Type Training (i.e. Line & Base Maintenance per ATA 104 Level III) + Company Certification Authorization, permits the holder to issue certificates of release to service following maintenance on avionic and electrical systems.
Category B1 (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=177&pagetype=90&pageid=4446) Maintenance Certifying Technician (Mechanical): Basic B1 category License + Type Training (i.e. Line & Base Maintenance per ATA 104 Level III) + Company Certification Authorization, permits the holder to issue certificates of release to service (CRS) following maintenance on mechanical and minor avionics and electrical systems.

Hows it a fairy tale and hows it that the B1s do more of an avionic work??:confused:

[grounded27]

Hi Kev85, you should familiarize yourself with the latest changes to the Aussie regs. The new EASA Part 66 license has devalued the Avionics trade significantly. You might want to consider structures and engines as well. Having what we use to call 5 cat. coverage i.e Engines, Airframe, Electrical, Instruments and Radio will make you much mor employable.

Just to reaffirm what has been stated above "avionics" is not what it used to be. Modern aircraft are mostly electronic, hangar guys (been there) are increasingly just parts changers. The days of having rigging skills are done. As an A/V tech I find myself often with the burden of fixing aircraft that the line guys can not (or do not want to). Soon there will be no such thing as a line mech W/O avionics skills. I have done a bit of it all but see that my current position is in the highest demand.