Black-listing PAX. Is it legal in your country?

[static]

Hello everyone,

In view of the possible return of the Kenyan suicidal to France, see the thread on rumours, I was wondering wether or not it is legal in your neck of the woods to put disruptive PAX on a black list. Thereby preventing them from flying on your airline again after an incident.
I`m interested to know, because my airline is having difficulty in this regard with national law, protecting the privacy of the individual.

[Boss Raptor]

A difficult one to be specific about as there are many legal facets;

There is no doubt that any property holder or transportation provider can refuse you access to their property or vehicle - for whatever reason...in the case of air travel this is usually clearly stated in the standard IATA Terms and Conditions printed on the ticket.

In the case of individual countries having specific legislation to allow (or disallow) 'Black Listing' I am not aware that there is such a regulation in the U.K. Statutes.

However the all encompassing U.K. Aviation & Maritime Securities Act supports and enacts the right of the airline, airport and appropriate governmental staff to refuse carriage...

As a side note the UK Ferry Companies are allowed to 'Black List' passengers for a variety of 'behavioural' reasons and I understand actively do so...

[static]

Thanks for your answer, Boss.
The captain of each flight obviously has the right to refuse pax, if he thinks they are going to be a danger to the safety of the flight. The trouble is, often you find out too late. When I`m up in the air, I`m stuck with them. Now if someone has been disruptive on previous flights, it would be nice to know that, to be able to denie boarding. A list of these people, shared among airlines would help. For instance, I would not take the aforementioned Kenyan back to France, if I would know.
Obviously this infringes on peoples right to privacy. I think the safety of the other 399 pax on board prevails.

[Boss Raptor]

Right of Carriage is a very difficult one to justify if argued that it is against personal freedom - however if such a multilateral 'Black List' were to be enacted then I believe it would be enforced on security grounds for which many countries already have appropriate legislation for, in most cases this appears to successfully override the 'rights' issue as in the U.K.

Obviously some countries are more sensitive to this kind of action than others but if compiled this 'Black List' would no doubt be administrated by ICAO,rather than IATA, as a security issue.

But then the difficulty arises as to who 'qualifies' to be on the list, those who have offended before like the individual in the recent BA case or those 'who are likely to pose a risk' i.e. people with a mental health history etc. - then we go into BIG civil rights issues!(As I understand it no one 'knew' beforehand that this guy was going to invade the cockpit)

I feel it is more likely to be the former scenario, those who have 'offended' and therefore flightcrew/passengers will continue to be at risk as there will always be the 'first time offender' - an acceptable level of risk however in my opinion.

I wholeheartedly support an international 'Black List' but we have to be very sure of our position here - after all a real 'madman' will no doubt go to any lengths including getting forged documents to pass through the 'Black List' check.

Cabin Crew/Flight Crew be on your guard, maybe time for more psychological training to identify a potentially dangerous passenger?!

[P51heaven]

Hi ya guys, well dont mind me, im just an ameture trying to work my way up in the aviation field, but I am only at the begining stages, but I read your posts and if I can have an opinion on this, there has to be some sort of legal right to protect the passengers and crew on any flight, there has to be exceptions to the privacy rule.


If a mad man were to invade the cockpit well you have a case on your hands in which is as serious as it can get, worse than a serial killer, because there are over 1 hunderd lives at risk, not to mention the millions of dollars in damage, is it going to take hundreds of deaths and many millions of aircrafts later to come up with an exception to the rule ? well lets hope it doesnt come to that.

By the sounds of it, both of you are quite high up in the aviation field, maybe you may know some big chiefs who can make this an issue, because it certainly is a big issue,if it take patitions, im sure there are alot of pilots and frequent flyers out there who would all sign there name and maybe produce it to whoever, and can maybe make a black list possible.

anyway thanks :-)
happy flying guys, take it easy