Command Tips.

[Secret Squirrel]

My company has finally reached the bottom of the barrel. When they hired me as a 400hr pilot four years ago they probably never expected the day would ever come when they would have to offer me a command. Alas, a sweaty palm handed me a letter some months ago and soon a very shaky hand wrote my name on the course board for this month.

I only have 2000hrs and have experienced SOME dodgy moments, my statutory engine failure (as p1/us)as well as four winters. This June will see my third year on my current type.

As we all do I have observed a number of captains and the way they do things and have a general idea of the kind of captain I would like to be (if I pass the course!).

However, I'm nervous because I know there will be moments when my resolve, technical knowledge, ability to make the right decision will be put to the test. I can prepare for my course and I feel confident that I can make a good impression in the sim. What I find daunting is the day that the TC sitting in the jumpseat on my final day say's "Yep, you'll do", and sticks his paw mark in the box.

So, I know there are thousands of captains new and old out there and I would like to know what your advice to a nervous hopeful is. Feel free to jest if you must as it may lighten my mood, write stories in the vein of 'I learnt about command from that', or even the one unshakeable command rule by which you live.

Thanks in advance.

SS

[BIK_116.80]

Never do anything that you would not be able to justify later to your boss, or to his boss, or in a court of law.

Never get yourself into a situation that you can not get yourself out of.

Never lie to the passengers with regard to the reasons for delays. But that is not to say that you should tell them so much of the truth that they all want to get off before you have even started the engines.

And no matter what happens, never ever ever speak to the media.

Best of luck.

[fobotcso]

You come across very well to me SS and I wouldn't worry about a thing. Keep showing that professional concern about getting it right and it will be right. Anyway, 2000 hours is pretty good.

If you need to, choose the right kind of rôle model from the Captains you know. And think that in 5 years time you're going to be the rôle model for another wave of FOs.

Do well.

[Secret Squirrel]

Thanks chaps!

[alosaurus]

When things are not going according to plan use the resources around you to the max.Company Engineering,ATC,Pax,Ops,Cabin Crew,Handling Agents and your f/o.Reduce your workload to enable you to keep the big picture and make the correct decisions.Once you get into something it better be right!
Good luck - if you work hard you won't have a problem.

[Sir_Fly-a-Lot]

SS,
Just some piece of advice I got from a very senior training captain: CYA (Cover Your Ass)
Make sure you've checked everything, so you don't get caught with your pants down.
Also, never lie to your pax, if needed, bend the truth a little. Furthermore, If you consider the weather to be marginal, take as much fuel as you like. You can never have too much fuel ! (Only when you're on fire)
Last point: Give your F/O's some leeway, you might actually learn something from them, as they learn from you.

[Secret Squirrel]

Thanks SFAL, I must admit I wasn't expecting a sensible post from you given our last encounter. I shall endeavour to make your positioning flights more memorable for the right reasons.

------------------
Very funny, Scotty. Now beam up my clothes!

[Wig Wag]

>>never ever ever speak to the media<<

Sound advice. However . . . We are all speaking to the press on PPRUNE and do get quoted from time to time.

[Roadtrip]

SS - The best advice I could give is to be personable and approachable by the crew. Smile alot and offer praise, especially when it's due. Nothing bolsters a new F/O confidence like telling him he did a s***hot job and that you enjoyed flying with him/her. When making a decision to divert, etc, run it by your F/O for his input and advice. When the F/O is flying let him make decisions, even if it's not how you would do it, along as its safe, legal, and not too embarassing. Let the cabin staff run the cabin with the proviso that the Capt be kept informed. Intervene only if necessary and back the purser up against the wackos and jerks.

In short -- The Captain should never think about "being the boss" and the crew should never forget that he is the boss.

[Wings]

S.S.
As a new Captain myself may I offer the following.
* Expect the unexpected - it will happen
* The only time you will have done everything is when you have forgotten something.
In the 6 weeks I have had my command on wide body long haul, I have had:
* a passenger die,
* an engineer short out the Left AC electrics while changing a lightbulb
* airline staff try to smuggle stuff on the aircraft
* groundstaff drive the airbridge into the aircraft tearing a bloody great hole down the side of the aircraft
* needed de icing at an airport that only had 30 ++ hours notice of snow during mid winter and therefore caught totally unaware ( no de icing fluid, de icing machines broken, crews off duty) [ EGLL 28 Dec]
* had cabin crew go 'out of hours' while the pilots were within hours (yes it can happen)
* arrived at an airfield to find it fogged out requiring a potential diversion of 3.5 hours

None of this had happened to me in the preceding 7 years I have had flying in the company as an F.O.

Although I don't work for them, QANTAS produced a set of notes for pilots undergoing command training. I found them the most practical notes anywhere. If I can scan them down to a managable size I will send them to you once I'm back from this longhaul.
In the meantime
Expect the unexpected,
Be safe you can't be bollocked for that
Be right. - If the Captain said it's right it must be right.

Enjoy it
Good luck

[CallYouBack]

Very good advice from all the above. The only thing I can add is to consciously aware of everything that is going on around you, both inside and outside the airplane. In your mind, have a reason for everything that you do, every switch you touch and everything that is said on the radio, or P.A.

Think of "command" as having to sit on a witness stand one year from now and be able to answer very tough questions from some lawyer who has had a year to disect an action or desision that you may have had only a second or two to make.

Use your crew. Don't try to do everything yourself. Delegate the mundane stuff like paperwork and flight log to the f/o. Most of them love to do that.

Be careful what you say on the P.A. It's always best to tell part of the truth, speaking more in generalities than detailed specifics. Most of the people behind you are apprehensive about flying to some degree and a reasonable explanation of a delay or abnormality will usually suffice. And there's always at least one person back there who thinks he knows more than he does, and will be your most vocal critic.

Good luck to you. It's the best job in the world. You'll love it.

[Secret Squirrel]

Thank you all for the advice. Not long now; Up to the sim in ten days time, then four days off, then line training.

Wings, I would be VERY grateful for the chance to read the notes. If you can't scan them please let me know and I shall provide you with my address. Long haul captain, eh. What a dream. Thanks in advance.

Please keep the tips coming, people.

------------------
Very funny, Scotty. Now beam up my clothes!

[I.L. Get-Mecôte]

The attitude to learn, to look for more knowledge and to keep learning is the way ahead.

I am a reasonably experienced RAF 4-jet QFI. I try to teach people by telling them of my own experiences/mistakes so that they can avoid making the same mistakes. Try and gat some of that from the training captains who will instruct/check you. However, all crew from any background and any experience can teach you something - even if it's how NOT to do something. Although 'crewroom talk' may not available to you (and it's getting less and less available in the RAF as well), you can still learn a lot by reading accident/incident reports and consider what you could do in your own environment if it happened to you. If you can use other people's experiences to be a bit more prepared for whatever is thrown your way, when the chips are down and your brain has shrunk to the size of a peanut, you will have just a bit more capacity. It has been mentioned before, but delegation is a great way to gain capacity. If you need to think about some complex problem/scenario/decision, then hand the aircraft over, if you can,until you have thought it through. You must also foster the atmosphere that your right-hand seat must be able to freely suggest things to you, no matter how daft - it's amazing how many daft ideas can be made into something sensible.

Sermon over. Best of luck.

[Secret Squirrel]

Thanks I.L.Get-Mecote. I must say, now that you mention it, I have seen captains in the crew room on airport standby reading the incident reports and ASR's. Good tip, thank you.

Unfortunately, I've suffered a setback: Last week, three days before I was due to go up to do my sim I woke up covered in spots and blisters; Chickenpox. I'm fine now but I missed my chance and will have to wait until the beginning of March now. In the meantime I have to go up as an FO this weekend in order to renew my licence. Good practice, I suppose and I'm not really complaining. I went in yesterday to find out who my training captain would be in March, fearing the worst - you know how it is! It turns out I'm being trained by a trainer and not checked by a checker! I don't respond to the latter.

------------------
Very funny, Scotty. Now beam up my clothes!

[RAFAT]

CallYouBack,

Your comment with regard to F/Os and mundane tasks is not appreciated!! This sort of attitude with regard to your flightdeck colleague suggests to me you are either :

a) Old school
b) A Yank
------------------
Secret Squirrel,

I too will be receiving my Command at the same level of experience as you, in about 6-8 months time when I reach 2000hrs. I for one will certainly avoid moving to the left seat with the sort of attitude that CYB has, there's no better way of dividing a flight deck than that.

Whereas guys like Roadtrip & ILGMC, I'd fly with someone like that any day of the week, and that's how I'll want my colleagues to view me.

[This message has been edited by RAFAT (edited 31 January 2001).]

[CallYouBack]

RAFAT

Wrong on both counts. I am neither a YANK nor do I consider myself as 'old school', although my training, which was assimilated over many years of watching and questioning, was from some tremendous people from both of those sectors, who you seem to consider with an element of degradation. I would suggest that when you go for your command training, you open your mind to more knowledge than you appear to be willing or able to assimilate. Your attitude leaves a lot to be desired.

My comment, which you seem to take in a derogatory way, was in no way meant like that. The first thing that you have to realize that 'command' is not primarily about flying. It's about managing. That comes first. Running a safe, efficient operation for the benefit of the paying customer has a spill-back effect on the success of your company. Look after your airplane first, look after your crew, and the rest will take care of itself.

'I.L. Get-Mecote" above has an excellent comment in his post that you would do well to heed. I quote, "Delegation is a great way to gain capacity". An excellent observation.

My use of the term 'mundane' was not used in a derogatory sense. My experience has been that when the first officer is included in the operation, in a capacity beyond strictly flying, his contribution as well as self-confidence increases immensely. His own ability to clearly word snags in the tech log, his keeping of the flight log, completing the load sheet, completing customs forms and even in some cases keeping the expense sheet for the entire crew, filling out and filing ICAO flight plans, administering the fuel distribution sheet to contract fuelers are only some of the things that one learns through the normal process of moving up through the ranks.

You appear to be one of those first officers that thinks that 'command' is only about flying, that your gauge of success revolves around whether you can out-fly, or make better landings than the captain.

Have you ever had to file your own ICAO flight plan, or do you know how to do it? Or where to do it? Or are you happy with whatever your dispatch office throws at you? Do you determine your own alternates, based not only on weather conditions but on other factors such as time of day at arrival, whether a hold is imminent, all weather capability of your aircraft, or do you let the captains that you fly with do all that?

Are you a contributer to the operation, or do you go along for the ride and try to out-land the captain?

The first officers that I have been privileged to work with over the last 12 years, have all been encouraged to contribute and to see the operation through the same eyes that I view it from. After achieving their own commands, more than one has privately called to thank me for the wider perspective that they came to view the entire operation after having been delegated with the responsibility to cover those smaller things that all contribute to the success of the entire mission. In retrospect, I cannot recall one who did not relish the chance to learn a little more about the entire operation and wasn't willing to contribute by eagerly doing those 'mundane' things that you seem to view as below you.

Two, or in some cases three chaps are sent on a mission for a reason. It is not a one-man show. By having a first officer who is a ready learner and operational contributer makes my job a lot easier. By taking the administrative necessities onto themselves, they free-up my mental capacity to think through and mentally orchestrate what hopefully will turn out to be a successful mission.

You would do well to regard your own future command in a similar light. Good luck to you.

(Edited for typo)

[This message has been edited by CallYouBack (edited 31 January 2001).]

[Liffy]

RAFAT: from your posting, a number of character pre-requisites for "command" are conspicuous in their glaring ommission. Not in any particular order, they are;

1) Maturity
2) Experience
3) Ability to read and absorb.

My, my, my....in 6-8 months you expect have the necessary hours required for your command... So that means you probably now have around 1600 hours of flying experience. Wow! How much of that enormous experience is as part of a multi-pilot crew operating in an I.F.R. environment? And from your obvious lack of wealth of experience, how much have you learned about what it takes to lead and organize, as well as have the ability inspire the confidence that is required in every member of your crew to do their jobs competently and with pride. Not very much from what I can see.

Your immature outburst at CYB's post reveals an inability to read and absorb the intended thrust of his post. I have read it over numerous times and I fail to see any intent to slag a fellow crew-member. I get quite the opposite impression. I'll fly with him any day.

You on the other hand, appear instantly ready to misconstrue intent and fling insult at wrongly perceived impressions. Hardly the "right stuff" that command material is made of. With your attitude, some day you will be a prime candidate for some ops administrative job that requires lots of paper pushing...anything to get you out of the way of the real 'line pilots'.

A friendly word of advice mate. Change your attitude and try to pick up as much as you can from those who have gone before you. That fourth stripe does not give you a license to be a know-it-all. A little humility together with an open mind instead of a selective one will make that fourth stripe either a decoration on a stuffed shirt, or something to be worn with pride and meaning.

[DivingGoose]

Contrary to what you think RAFAT, it takes more than mere hours to qualify for a command. EXPERIENCE cannot be purchased. It is acquired, usually over many years, from a multitude of situations and in company of many personalities. A good and positive ATTITUDE attracts people and input. A surly one creates divisiveness and repells input.

Prior to your command training, might I suggest a CRM course from an experienced and reputable airline. Looks like you need it because that left seat thing appears to have gone to your head already.

[Bellerophon]

Secret Squirrel

Rotten Luck, Calamine lotion used to be the answer when I got it years ago. Good luck with the course when it does happen, judging from what you've posted previously you have the right approach and should get through without problems. If you can satisfy DMcQ, one of the best instructors I've met, that you're command material, you'll be fine by me when you join us!

RAFAT

Try re-reading the posts on this thread, and your response to them, and then see if you can understand why some very experienced pilots are expressing doubts about you.

If you can't, you may find your command course much harder than you expect, in areas that you don't appear to have given much thought to!

[RAFAT]

Well well, I certainly seem to have stirred some emotion with my post, and I'd like to try and answer the points raised, in a reasoned manner.

I do not apologise for my reaction to your post CYB, I'm afraid however many times I read it, I still detect a derogatory overtone, which in my experience has a divisive effect on the flightdeck in terms of CRM. I strongly deny displaying an attitude which suggests I base my success purely on flying talent and the ability to make better landings than the Captain, absolutely not!

Liffy, having had a previous long career in the military, I would say my ability to read and absorb is considerably heightened, as well as my ability to plan, provide, direct & control; in other words lead and organise! an ability which doesn't take upwards of 5,000hrs in a flying logbook to possess; as CYB comments : a Command position is not strictly about flying. To answer another of your points, 85% of what little experience I do have is in fact '...part of a multi-pilot crew operating in an IFR environment'

I admit to possibly being a little defensive with regard to the Captain-F/O relationship, because unfortunately and all too often, I fly with (and DivingGoose, attend CRM courses with) colleagues who quite blatantly display an attitude that the F/O is there:- primarily to get the aircraft safely on the ground should he himself become incapacitated. They rarely allow decisions of an operational nature to be made by the F/O, and contrary to the sound advice given by I.L.Get-Mecote and Sir Fly a Lot, they would never ever admit to the fact that they could actually learn something from the F/O. If it's not done their way, it's definitely wrong!

Unfortunate as the fact maybe, the guys who display this sort of attitude are of certain types, but I'm not going to say any more on that. Believe it not I do not like to court controversy.

CYB, I relish the opportunity to be an 'operational contributor' making my own decisions with regard to departure fuel, weather/fuel alternates, technical matters, flight planning, liasing with airport services to ensure safe and speedy handling of our aircraft, and making decisions on and off the flightdeck that I deem to be beneficial to our Company and its success. Although 'some' of these tasks may be mundane, I do not consider any of them to be below me, but equally I do not consider other, more important decisions, to be purely within the Captain's domain, and I have considerable respect for Captains who, in true leadership fashion, take on board the views of the whole crew.

I say again that your original post did not give this impression, and that is what I reacted to, however, your second post displays a different, more approachable attitude which would merit a different reaction altogether.

Bellerophon - expand please.

[This message has been edited by RAFAT (edited 01 February 2001).]

[LastCall]

Ummmm...pardon my intrusion into this little squabble folks, but I've been on holidays for the past three weeks and when I was away, a few things appear to have changed.

RAFAT, help me out here. When I left, England and Ireland were on the same side of the Atlantic. Have they moved one of them?...Can't find that darned NOTAM....

[LastCall]

It's just that I was looking at your profile (UK) and that of Liffy (Ireland) and in your post where you are addressing a remark to him (her?) you implied that he was on the other side of the Atlantic???

It struck me as rather humorous, because when I went on holiday, both U.K. and Ireland...as far as I remember, were on the same side of the Atlantic...

I have an early morning departure tomorrow, and having been away for several weeks I just wanted to make sure that nothing drastic had changed in the time that I'd been away. Your statement in the post above kind of threw me off. I still can't seem to find that NOTAM....

[Secret Squirrel]

Inevitable, I suppose, that this thread was going to go off track somewhere along the line; they usually do. Someone says something which is taken in the wrong way or it's said in an unintentional way and interpretted badly etc.etc.

Whilst we're on the subject, I didn't take the comment the wrong way. If I'd understood, as Rafat obviously did, that 'mundane tasks' should be offloaded as a matter of course, then I too may have taken offence. However, I took it to mean that when some incident/matter/occurrence requires the captain's attention then tasks, which have to be done, should be delegated.

Let's see if I can express myself here: Sometimes things come up; it may be a problem in the cabin, or a technical problem which requires the intervention of an engineer, or a session in the library; maybe it's a logistical problem with luggage or fuel... whatever. Most of these things are, ultimately, problems only the captain has the final say on. Most of these instances will draw his/her attention away from the preparation sequence associated with a turnaround. Personally, I'm only too happy to unburden my colleague and do feel very useful. I'll happily do the walkround and the interior setup and necessary paperwork which are, under normal circumstances, shared tasks. Notwithstanding this, I expect to be kept in the loop and have the situation explained to me. In the event of any special considerations I also expect to be consulted. Many FO's are like that and I'm sure Rafat is no exception. I'm also pretty confident that this is what CYB meant.

So, that said, let's return to the matter at hand because I find this all informative stuff. When it's died a death I will print it out and keep it.

Thank you all for your contributions and please keep them coming.

------------------
Very funny, Scotty. Now beam up my clothes!

[This message has been edited by Secret Squirrel (edited 01 February 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Secret Squirrel (edited 01 February 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Secret Squirrel (edited 01 February 2001).]

[Liffy]

BELLEROPHON

Good post. Well said!

LASTCALL

Nice pick-up mate. I was a little bewildered about that too. BTW...I'm a 'he'.

Cheers

[CallYouBack]

Secret Squirrel

Yes sir, that's exactly what I meant. In retrospect, perhaps a better way to have worded it would have been to use 'routine' instead of 'mundane'. In any case, with only one exception, everyone seems to have realized the intent of what I had to say without looking for slights, implied or hidden meanings, which there weren't any.

Enjoy your command. You are obviously ready for it. As I remarked previously, it's the best job in the world. You'll love it.

LIFFY

Thanks for the nice comment. The feeling is mutual.

[This message has been edited by CallYouBack (edited 01 February 2001).]

[Stephen John]

Squirrel

Sorry to hear about the chicken pox and the delay to your course.


Best wished from CFE GCI pax for March

[JJflyer]

Treat your F/O like you would like to be treated yourself...

JJ

[Rananim]

Dont mean to dampen your spirits but with only 2000 hours you wouldnt be eligible for a co-pilot seat in one of the US majors.Presumably you're talking commuter...in which case the best of luck to you.The actual job of aircraft commander remains the same whatever you fly from BE1900 to 744.
Call you back's comments about delegating 'mundane stuff' to the FO is incorrect but RFAT's response to this is inappropiate.CRM originated in the States and all crew members are encouraged to play a full assertive role.

[Jumbo Jockey]

In an attempt to bring this thread back to the point of Secret Squirrel's question:

"Act the part, and don't do anything daring, dumb or different" (from an RAF heavy QFI many years ago)

Get well soon SS, and good luck.

[This message has been edited by Jumbo Jockey (edited 04 February 2001).]

[Captain Sensible]

One of the vital tasks a Captain has is to bring on the F/O's he flies with; he does this by, amongst other things, example and encouraging active decision-making, ("it's your leg; you run it." Or "Although it's my leg, what do you think the correct thing to do is here?").

[Secret Squirrel]

Rananim, my spirits are far from dampened, my friend. If you wish to know, it's going to be BAe 146 with a regional airline which flies anywhere in Europe within it's reach, i.e. around 700kms range. I will just say that out of my 2,100 hours all but 400 are commercial and I have seen four winters. Not, by any stretch of the imagination, a world of experience. This is my point, and the reason for my seeking advice. I consider myself very fortunate to be given the chance. Although I don't consider myself as ready as I'd like to be, I wonder if I ever will. I am no spring chicken and recent developements at CFE means I have a chance to hold a command within a UK major due to grandfather rights, so I cannot turn it down. I wish I had a couple of thousand hours and a couple of winters more but unfortunately I don't.

Your claim that CRM originated in the USA, is correct but not, funnily enough, in the aviation industry; the concept began in the space program. It was the British who first identified the problem within the aviation industry when Capt Stanley Keys, a fearsome training captain in BEA, as it was then, had a heart attack and the FO with him was too frightened to correct the situation. The result was a smoking hole in the ground in the middle of Staines. Up until this accident, attitudes such as those held by Keys were largely encouraged by the airlines, especially British ones. It was BEA who first addressed the problem within their airline, the British gave the problem a name and raised awareness back in the 70's.

Stephen John, thankyou, I'm much better now and have my course in March now.

Thanks all for your replies.

Regards SS.

------------------
Very funny, Scotty. Now beam up my clothes!

[This message has been edited by Secret Squirrel (edited 06 February 2001).]

[Trident Sim]

Secret Squirrel

I realise it was a passing reference, made whilst you were commenting on CRM matters, but you said the P2 in the Trident accident at Staines, 18 June 1972, was <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">too frightened to correct the situation</font>

The AAIB report, available at www.open.gov.uk/aaib/garpi/garpi.htm (http://www.open.gov.uk/aaib/garpi/garpi.htm) contains no such allegation or finding. You may care to enlighten those of us who were around at the time, and knew the crew member concerned, as to the source of your information that enables you to make this claim about him, and to present it as fact.

Whatever else went wrong that day, and I readily admit that there was much that did, comments about being too frightened are wide of the mark and frankly in rather poor taste.

If, on reflection, you agree, perhaps you would consider withdrawing the remark?

[Secret Squirrel]

I am not of your generation and go only by what I have read. Firstly, let me make clear that I was casting no aspersions on the FO concerned. What I meant by this comment, possibly poorly phrased, was that the Captain was, by all accounts, a very imposing character who would not put up with the sort of challenge now expected from FO's today. In reality, the AAIB report was as much poor conjecture on the final moments as anything alse due to the lack of adequate recording systems at that time. It is suggested that the droops were pulled up before time and that the FO may have instinctively followed Keys command without question.

Whether you like it or not, and having been around at the time you should know, it is clear that the sort of cockpit atmosphere that Keys - and others - liked to run fell far short of what is now considered to be safe. You possibly don't remember what it is like to be intimidated by a senior training captain who holds your carreer in the next miligram of his biro ink.

I apologise if you understood that I was calling the FO a coward, I was NOT. I merely made the comment to ilustrate what kind of atmosphere Keys liked to foment. From what I understand there were two FO's in the flight deck that day and neither of them challenged him. Keys' fault, absolutely. Training captains like that still exist, unfortunately albeit almost extinct, thankfully. As recently as the Swissair crash where the decision was to land ASAP was overruled by a beligerent captain in favour of reducing the landing weight, the evidence is there.

So, if your gripe was because you thought I was accusing the unfortunate FO's of anything or laying any blame on them then yes, I retract the comment as it was said. However, if you were a friend of Keys, then you only had to go into the lavatories to see the writing on the wall! I won't repeat it here as it would be in bad taste but I'm sure you know what I mean.

[This message has been edited by Secret Squirrel (edited 06 February 2001).]

[Trident Sim]

Secret Squirrel

Thank you for withdrawing your comment.

Trident Sim

[This message has been edited by Trident Sim (edited 06 February 2001).]

[Secret Squirrel]

You're welcome.