View Full Version : FEDEX starting up in cologne
Moneyjunkie
10th May 2011, 07:12
Loose Rumour floating around about Fedex starting up in cologne with 75/76 operation. Rumour has it that they need european pilots to operate a number of these A/C around Europe. :D Can anyone confirm this or shed some light on this topic maybe ?
Stay safe! :ok:
Flightmech
10th May 2011, 08:17
FedEx are not starting up in CGN. They have been operating out of CGN for some time now. The change is that there is possibly going to be a CGN crew domicile for the 757. The Airbus flying will remain SIBA. This will be the second crew domicile outside of the domestic US after HKG. I don't think any European crew will be hired. The current crew force will bid it.
Dayzed
10th May 2011, 09:51
So will this be US pilots, working and living in the EU flying EU based N reg 757's?
Flightmech
10th May 2011, 10:05
You seem to have got the jist of it......don't shoot the messenger. Not 100% done and dusted yet. They thought about doing the same thing in CDG a few years back and that never happened.
3pointlanding
10th May 2011, 14:29
Done deal. Bids out and Crews already asking about commuting, schools and housing
despegue
10th May 2011, 14:38
This should be forbidden!
EU Jobs for EU Pilots!:mad:
Pilot125
10th May 2011, 14:47
There is something good the EU guys in Brussels can do for once ... don't let this happen .
But since there is a hugh pilot shortage in Europe anyway and carriers can't find anymore pilots , plus we Europeans can do the same in the US , flying EU registered aircrafts and being based there , why would they not allow it ?
:hmm:
FoxHunter
10th May 2011, 18:29
There is something good the EU guys in Brussels can do for once ... don't let this happen .
But since there is a hugh pilot shortage in Europe anyway and carriers can't find anymore pilots , plus we Europeans can do the same in the US , flying EU registered aircrafts and being based there , why would they not allow it ?
They do allow it. It has been going on for years. I believe the problem is that you are a bit confused by thinking of the EU as a country.;)
16down2togo
10th May 2011, 20:07
As long as I still need a f*****g visa to operate my a/c into the United States and do an interview at a US embassy every time I have to renew it
and go through hell when I privately travel to the US because I hold a pilot visa
and am blamed to illegally want to immigrate because 'every pilot wants to fly in the US', we should give them no chance for that easy shot.
Sorry
lear999wa
10th May 2011, 22:26
This is such BS. I hope someone in Brussels puts an end to this fast. This is cabotage? Didn't easy need to start giving out French contract because they had pilots based in France, not to mention FR who closed its base in MRS. How are Fedex getting away with employing pilots who work and are based in the EU or better yet France on U.S. contracts.
Dayzed
10th May 2011, 23:22
Did somebody say a european pilot shortage.......
IF that is the case why is there still P2F going on? If there was a shortage, bottom feeder cargo ops like west atlantic wouldn't be able to get away with charging £17000 for an ATP rating. If there was a pilot shortage my terms and conditions would have improved. I might have got a pay offer that would at least meant I would have been offered something that would have kept my wages increasing. Well at least at the same rate as the cost of living and inflation. But no.
As has been said before, When I can fly and earn in america then I will be more than happy to see the americans doing the same here. Until then our bloody unions should be lobbying to sort this out. I pay BALPA enough. European pilot unions, we pay you to represent our interests, SORT IT OUT. :ugh::ugh::ugh:
despegue
11th May 2011, 02:33
FED EX: WE EU Pilots WILL NOT accept this. be aware.:mad:
I have 4 collegues who have contacted their respective legistlative representatives and they were apalled and were going to take this to the European Comission for explanation and rectification.
This CAN NOT pass.
Flightmech
11th May 2011, 08:30
Not being rude but i'm sure that a company as large has FedEx has done it's homework and found it legal to do so or they wouldn't have put a company bid out?:confused: I'm sure they're not the first international carrier to put a crew base in a country other than their own??
KBPsen
11th May 2011, 08:52
No doubt they have done their homework but will they get an A or an F? Once you start basing people in a country you open up a can of worms and there are bound to be surprises.
Not being rude but i'm sure that a company as large has FedEx has done it's homework
One, they've probably found it isn't illegal, that isn't the same as being legal.
Two, laws can and do change.
If enough countries care, one line will suffice: No airline registered outside the EU shall be permitted to operate scheduled flights wholly within the EU.
Add some legalese to define terms such as "scheduled flights" and "wholly within" and FedEx can go home or sub-contract the intra-EU flying.
they're not the first international carrier to put a crew base in a country other than their own??
They're not but, discounting FedEx's HKG base for a moment, I am not aware of another carrier setting up a foreign base for 7th/8th freedom flying (except technically for QF's LON base - I understand they fly LHR-SIN/HKG/BKK and back - but at least the aircraft continues on to Australia)
Fish Head on Final
11th May 2011, 10:39
Hi To you All Can any one give my some info how to apply.
I got FAA ATP And I am resident in EU
lear999wa
11th May 2011, 11:13
(Hi To you All Can any one give my some info how to apply.
I got FAA ATP And I am resident in EU)
You cant, and nether can I.
I have all the required documents, right to live and work in the US, FAA licenses heavy PIC time only problem is I have lived for more then 6 months outside the US in the last 5 years.
Complete discrimination.
Anyway time to write a letter to my representative in Brussels and see if we can stop this.
Flightmech
11th May 2011, 11:43
What's defined as "wholly within". The intra-european routes are mostly continuations of long-haul flight numbers. A portion of the intra-european used to be contracted out until 2008 to ACL but then the rules changed and FedEx took over the route themselves.
I have answered the OP's question and will comment no more on whats resulted.
marsipulami
11th May 2011, 13:58
I will add some more fuel to the fire.
FedEx is already slowly taking over the feeder routes (intra-European) from ACL and similar companies with their 757's and rumour says that by the end of 2012 all feeder routes will be flown by FedEx themselves with N-registered airplanes and US crew.
More discrimination as feeder companies in Europe are not allowed to operate jets on feeder routes, thereby FedEx is keeping the 8+ tonnes cargo segment within Europe for themselves.
The agreement from the Marshall aid is becoming outdated.
This can and will be stopped!
hardcase
11th May 2011, 17:32
As an ACL employee, I am hearing that B757 will be taking more routes that ATR72 is currently operating...we are getting base changes and total disruption both professionally and personally with us getting a take it or leave it 60days notice...
The latest is B757 taking over the MAN-STN-CDG route from September with US crews
Flightmech
11th May 2011, 21:02
The MAN-STN-CDG will not happen with the B757 the way it is now as the MAN-STN sector would be an internal flight within one country. Current FedEx feeders fly country to country. As some said earlier in the thread, the EU is not a country.
fingal flyer
11th May 2011, 21:19
I dont like it either,but they may well get to do it as its not dealing with the United States Of Europe,but many states.However a route Man-Stn is an internal trip in the UK,surely these types of ops could be sorted.
By and large when you see UPS do this in Europe they use StarAir.Cgn Dub Snn and Cgn Lys TLs being examples.
Politicians took away our Duty Free,but united unity union alas still mean nothing officially for us.It is these people that must change the way things happen.I have argued against this here in the past but now accept no Americans are doing wrong,things must change so that what is happening is wrong,until then I will look jealously at their 757s on the ramp in Cologne and hope.
eagleflyer
12th May 2011, 05:00
UPS indeed only goes internationally as far as I know and otherwise takes StarAir. But FEDEX already flies within Germany, they have a trip CGN-ATH-TLV-MUC-CGN. This route is operated by B757 since they´ve taken it over from the Airbus. I believe they also operate a CDG-CGN-MUC trip by B757.
Flightmech
12th May 2011, 12:03
UPS does a STN-CGN-STN with a 767. Both sectors are after or prior a long haul. I believe its PHL-STN-CGN-STN-SDF with an aircraft change in CGN
UPS indeed only goes internationally as far as I know and otherwise takes StarAir. But FEDEX already flies within Germany, they have a trip CGN-ATH-TLV-MUC-CGN. This route is operated by B757 since they´ve taken it over from the Airbus. I believe they also operate a CDG-CGN-MUC trip by B757.
This is similar to non-United States airlines operating routes such as [non-US]-JFK-ORD-[non-US].
In your example no freight can be loaded in MUC for CGN. Freight can be off loaded in MUC, and freight with a destination outside of Germany can be loaded in MUC and carried through CGN. But if FEDEX wants to move freight between MUC and CGN they will have to find another way.
6000PIC
12th May 2011, 14:27
In my opinion there is no entity ( CAA , EASA , BALPA , the EU , IFALPA , ICAO ) that has the desire , will , strength , ability , negotiating skills , or mandate to prevent US - registered a/c operated by a US Carrier operating from within , to , or from any point in the EU. Bilaterals rule the day. This will only be solved at a political level , and the US has Europe on it`s knees , bent over asking for more.
Flightwatch
12th May 2011, 19:51
What many Europeans don’t seem to realize is that there is at least one large EU freight airline that has for many years done exactly the same as Fedex is now planning, should they too be stopped? The only difference is that the pilots are not based in the USA. Said airline has many flights a week that carry freight from a country other than their own to and from the USA on direct flights that do not transit their home country. This is under the relevant freedom of the air agreement (5th or 7th?).
Despite the fact that the EU now negotiates air service agreements there is no legal definition that classifies the EU as a country and the negotiation is made on behalf of all individual countries, which then apply the agreement. It is the EU who have agreed 8th freedom rights within the EU meaning any EU company can fly between any two EU countries or within a single country which is not their own domicile.
What is the difference between Fedex basing pilots in CGN and, say, Ryanair (Irish) basing pilots in Spain and not necessarily hiring Spanish pilots under these 8th freedom rights.
However European you might feel there is no proposal (yet) to show your nationality in your passport as European, therefore all international air service agreements must be followed between each country therein, I hope nobody would advocate going back to the highly regulated days of yesteryear and rescind these agreements
The issue of basing is irrelevant really as whether the pilots are based or rotate through the particular city doesn’t alter the fact that the aircraft are flown by employees of the company. In fact basing at least puts a little into the local economy.
The only important change to lobby for is the right of any nationality to live and work in the US or Europe but for that you will have to argue with the relevant immigration department or politician. Good luck.
Flightwatch (a European)
16down2togo
12th May 2011, 20:07
I do agree with you Big J,.
but as you say, that particular airline is not basing a/c and crew in the US but just exercising whatever freedom rights there are.
Would they offer a US base, they would be pressed to hire US crew or crew with a US working/ residential permit. It has nothing to do with a european or individual county thing it is that the US is unilaterally taking rights in foreign countries that it is not granting these countries. (Talk about the visa again!).
Enjoy Texas!
S.
3pointlanding
13th May 2011, 17:22
The crews may be in CGN but the flights are out of CDG
there is at least one large EU freight airline that has for many years done exactly the same as Fedex is now planning
Are you sure though? I was under the impression that there was no 7th freedom involved and instead flights between the US and Central/South America are scheduled charter flights for Panalpina (and others were operated on behalf of Mexicana until its demise).
The closest comparison comes from talking boxes. Before 9/11, Iberia had a mini-hub in MIA connecting MAD/BCN with Central/South America. Planes and crews based in MIA, it was all connecting traffic, no local traffic allowed if I recall correctly.
(btw 5th freedom is the right to pick up in a country and transport to another country *via* the home country)
cf680c2b
14th May 2011, 15:43
Fedex is not considered an airline......... they basically deliver the mail.
Your legislator/Representative doesn't give a damn about 50 Pilot jobs when over a thousand Europeans have been employed for non-flying jobs and millions added to the battered EU economy.
UR wasting your time.............life is not fair.
The European Authorities are about to legislate [ NPRM] on the use of non European= FAA pilot licences by pilots operating out of such European bases.
The thought of many USA pilots having to requalify with the JAA ATPL is unthinkable.
What will happen do we think.
Goodness me !
Koi
gcsass
21st May 2011, 12:48
If you would read the contract you would see that we are not going to be domiciled in CGN.......:)
Spirit
24th May 2011, 00:11
If you would read the contract you would see that we are not going to be domiciled in CGN.......
It's not about domicile, it's about Union A exercising rights in Union B, that Union A is not allowing Union B within Union A itself.
If this thing goes through, the EU will have to be involved, as this will be unfair competition if there ever was any!!!
Best foot forward
24th May 2011, 15:59
The European Authorities are about to legislate [ NPRM] on the use of non European= FAA pilot licences by pilots operating out of such European bases.
The thought of many USA pilots having to requalify with the JAA ATPL is unthinkable.
What will happen do we think.
Goodness me !
WIll they have to sit the exams in German or would they have to learn English and sit them.:)