Daytime Jobs

[Red or green?!]

I hope I have placed this question in the correct forum, but I think professionals are best capable to answer it?!

I am a wannabee and recently I have been medically tested. During this test it came out I have a slight problem with my colorsight. I did get a 1st class medical, but with a limitation: It's 'not valid for night flying or by color signal control'. Now I wonder if any of you has a suggestion about what interesting jobs might be within my possibilities?

[Spearing Britney]

Try in the medical and health forum, a lot of guys in there have had (and some overcome) colour vision problems. Have a word with 4-Jets too...

[Spearing Britney]

Just been in there and theres an encouraging thread on this
www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum52/HTML/000048.html (http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum52/HTML/000048.html)

Hope it helps...

[This message has been edited by Spearing Britney (edited 24 December 2000).]

[Red or green?!]

Thanks, S.B., for your quick reply! I have been away during christmas so it took some days to react!

I have seen the topic in the medical forum, and have found some very interesting facts and tips. However, because I am determined to try, if possible in any way, to make a living as a professional pilot, I am trying to find out what interesting aircareer might be possible for me to aim for. My favourite job would be flying a commercial jet, but I don't think any known company would hire a boeing/airbus/etc.-pilot who is only alowed to fly during daytime!

Any suggestions?
Rog?!

[Spearing Britney]

First thing I would do is try and get the restriction (legitimately) removed. The CAA med team have been proven wrong before and may be again. Probably won't be easy but try that track first - as I say try 4-jets (he is a prolific poster) as he knows a helpful specialist on this.

If the restriction sticks commercial flying may be tricky - not sure but don't give up yet!

[Spearing Britney]

Doh! Just noticed the .nl on the address, oh well not the caa then but then I am sure the Dutch medics can't be perfect either. I would definately do all I could to get the restriction removed before looking for day only jobs.

There is a way around most things, good luck!

PS just thought, the antartic survey boys go so far south that they have daylight to fly in 24/7 but its probably a bit cold...

[Red or green?!]

Thanks again, S.B.! I have a second-opinion test scheduled for the 2nd week of january. This is because I really think I can do better than the first time I took the test. I don't know the name of the test but I had to look down some kind of microscope-looking device with two halve circles projected in it, that either did or didn't have matching colors. My job was to tell if they did, and later to turn a little wheel to try if I could make them match. I noticed that, if I tilted my head, the shades could vary! Maybe if I try a litte harder... who knows.

About the reference to 4-jets... I can't seem to find his address or any postings of him/her. Do you have an address?

[static]

Hi red/green,

If you cannot get rid of the restriction, maybe flying skydivers is something for you.
Did it for some time at Teuge and had a good time. Always daytime VMC.

Good luck with the 2nd opinion.

[Spearing Britney]

Sorry no address for 4-jets but he used to be a regular in chat...

[Pilot Pete]

How about instructing? I'm sure you could teach everything except the night rating....even up to twins I would have thought.

Good luck.

PP

[Anthony2107]

Hi Red or Green,

Do not despair, I came about a news a few months ago regarding a commercial helicopter pilot with a confirmed colour blindness.
And as you are, he has a restriction to fly at night or work with colour signals,
Anyway he has beaten this because there is a new development which is a contact lens which actually corrects this problem.
I am here in Australia and I'll look it up for you if you're interested. Or maybe look it up where ever you are. But it definitely exist and has helped put this Helo pilot on the track for night flying and IFR.

A2107

[Red or green?!]

First I'd like to wish everybode here a happy new year!

PP: Thanks for the suggestion! I think that instructing would be a great option. I only hope my pupils will be able to fight me off the controls! :)

A2107: This is great news! I am trying to find more info about these lenses, but up till now I haven't found anything concrete! If you do have more info... I am most certainly interested!!! (You can send it to my e-mail address or post it right here!) I will of course keep looking for more.

Looks promising for me, at the start of this new year!

Rog?!

[Red or green?!]

Whoops...

Just read an article by Jeff Baggish about colour blindness and it says...

Although no eyeglasses will correct a color vision deficiency, a contact lens called X-
Chrom can partially correct it. The problem is that while X-Chrom lenses can help your
vision in one way, they can impair it in other ways. Because of this, the FAA does not
allow pilots to wear them.

I'm scheduled for a second opinion test next week, so I'll ask the examiner what he knows about these lenses.

[This message has been edited by Red or green?! (edited 02 January 2001).]

[Thrust Reverser]

Red or Green,

My suggestion is to get a medical examiners input on this. I know that there are more test before they can say that you are color blind and cannot get the ATP.

Good luck R & G - never give up. A quitter never wins. If flying is really what's close to your heart then let nothing stand in your way. I've seen people in wheel chairs get a commercial license and do instructing.

Just a suggestion, maybe somebody has already - why not work for a parachute company.

Go get them man.

Thrust Reverser


[This message has been edited by Thrust Reverser (edited 03 January 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Thrust Reverser (edited 03 January 2001).]

[Anthony2107]

Hello Red & Green

I was beginning to think that you won't be reading this thread again.

In regards to the lenses, I will enquire about it.
Just curious, did you fail the test called
"Ishihara test"? This is where they turn the book on you and identify the numbers on it?

I don't know how strict FAA is but here in Australia ( and it has already been 8 years )they allow people to fly at night even with colour blindness but is restricted to a commercial pilots license.

The other two tests are the "Farnsworth lantern test" and the "Signal light test"
According to a medical examiner I was talking to, there is a high pass rate for people who they thought was all-out colour blind on the "Signal light test". If they pass this then all restrictions are taken out and they can go for the Airline Transport license.

If the lense I've heard of is the X-Chrom, then it is only a matter of time before they have a breakthrough on this because research is still being done on this type of lense.

All the best for the new year.

A2107




[This message has been edited by Anthony2107 (edited 03 January 2001).]

[Red or green?!]

Thrust Reverser: Thanks for the pep-talk and the suggestion! I'm certainly determined to make a living as a pilot so I will not stop trying until either my possibilities or financial situation will make me! I live nearby EHAM and every day those beautiful big birds fly over my roof, either coming from or going to the west. And every time I envy them driving it (in the positive way, of course!).

A2107: It may take a few days occasionally, but I will read every post to this thread! Since yesterday I have made some progress: The US-company ColorMax http://www.colormaxtech.com/ manufactures glasses as well as lenses to correct red-green deficiency. Looks promising but I need some time to look in to it and find out if they are accepted by JAR/FAA and if it's possible to obtain them in the Netherlands.
During my medical I took the Ishihara test and failed it, so I had to do another test of which I don't know the name (I'll ask next monday!). I'll keep you informed!
You wrote about the possibility to fly commercial while color-blind?! Does this mean that one (for example, ehh... ME :)) could be able to get a job on the big commercial airliners???

Rog?!

[This message has been edited by Red or green?! (edited 04 January 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Red or green?! (edited 04 January 2001).]

[Anthony2107]

RoG?!

Well done on your progress. Keep trying - the answer to your problem is out there - either it is only a question of time or it could already be here.

In regards to your question....

<<< You wrote about the possibility to fly commercial while color-blind?! Does this mean that one (for example, ehh... ME ) could be able to get a job on the big commercial airliners??? >>>

If you have passed the class 1 medical and have a commercial pilots license, then you are halfway there. ATPL is your next objective - after building more hours by instructing or doing other flying jobs.
Commercial Airliners ? - nothing is impossible, get this hurdle of your colour blindness out of the way first then your possibilities will only be limited by the work you put into it.
Cross your fingers JAR/FAA will allow you to use it. If they do let you use it, then the doors to the Boeings and Airbuses is open for you.
To take it further, as I have said in my previous post that here in Oz they have allowed people to fly on commercial operations at night while colour blind. At least that's what our CAA or CASA (as we call them here) medical examiner has told me. So, I don't know why you have the restriction. Maybe because you are in a different country. But if you were here, they would allow you.
Therefore if you have the CPL and passes in ATPL ( frozen ATPL) and enough hours, then I can't see why not.
Another thing I had in mind is - have you ever tried speaking to an opthalmologist if your colour blindness is operable ? - just a thought.

Anyway, all the best and let us know how you go.


A2107

PS - Go for the Signal Light Test, if you can get it. There is a high pass rate on that.


[This message has been edited by Anthony2107 (edited 04 January 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Anthony2107 (edited 04 January 2001).]

[Thrust Reverser]

Red or Green?!

Put in the hard work and you'll get it. Simple as that.
As A2107 said, try to fix the color blindness first. At least you wont have to worry about that when they look at your medical restriction.

I use to be in your shoes as well, looking across the fence on the taxiing jets when I was younger - does that give away how old I am ? I decided to do something about it.
Basically I begged, stole and borrowed, slept with the bosses wife, steal somebody else's job, killed for a right seat and anything and everything. I even left my cushy job to go overseas.
Just joking about the bosses wife. He might be reading this.
Anyway, for me it was a long hard climb to where I am, if it wasn't for an airline pilot who helped me I would not be here.
Believe me, it was an uphill losing battle.But got there eventually.
Some of my instructor friends who are still instructing up to this time don't even know that I already fly 737s.

First advise - "It's not what you know, it's who you know" Get in touch with an airline pilot who would be able to help you.

Good luck ROG?!

See ya up there.

Thrust Reverser



[This message has been edited by Thrust Reverser (edited 04 January 2001).]

[The Shiznit]

Hey,
I took the Signal lights test here in Australia today it consisted of 3 sets 3 of either red, green, or white lights for a length of 3 seconds at 300m and then again at 600m in all 18 lights. (if that makes sence) I got one wrong the second one at close range, the testing officer said that would be no problem and all the restrictions on my medical should be removed. (I'll believe that when it happens!!) I also have a set of those fantastic lenses they cost me $AU400 and I've notices difference I haven't worn them flying but I did have them i and try the Ishihara Test, without the lenses I got about 3 correct with I got them all!!! I think that they have been designed with that particular test in mind. When wearing them every day I notice little differences in some colours eg the lights on my sterio look yellow but in fact are quite green with the lenses in. If you want anymore info just tell me. I am not sure of the manufacturers of these lenses but they are pink, very uncomfortable and when you are wearing them you kind of look like the devil!!!

[Anthony2107]

The Shiznit,

I cracked up when you said you would look like the devil if you wear these lenses.
In regards to the lenses, did you enquire if you can use them while flying ?

From your post it sounds like that it was designed to pass the eye test only, although that would be half the battle won for Red or Green?!.

Could you fill me in if you can use these for night flying?

As you have read from my post, and you probably know this already that if you pass the signal light test then all restrictions are taken out therefore you can progress to ATPL.

Let us know how you went on the signal light test.

Cheers mate

A2107

[The Shiznit]

A2107
I can wear the lenses flying, the are normal hard lenses that some people wear if they have normal vision. I have worn them at night but everything seems darker, they don't make traffic lights much different BUT it could make enough difference to pass the test. I could have easily worn them to the Signal Lights test the officer would never have known!! A bit dodgy I know but I will not be colour tested again. The civil aviaition authority doesn't recognise the lenses so if I told them about it they wouldn't let me wear them. The signal lights test wasn't too hard the big problem that I have is Red- Green too and the difference is that the green light isn't as bright as the white so after a the first coupe of lights the difference is easy to see.
Can you tell me if the lift in restrictions will leave me with a medical waiver on my licence or nothing at all??

[This message has been edited by The Shiznit (edited 06 January 2001).]

[Red or green?!]

And here are the results... (of the second opinion test).

NEGATIVE! I'm very sad to announce the second opinion tests (Holmes Wright lantirn AND Ishihara) of my color vision has not led to the removal of the restriction on my medical http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif . Also, the examinor told me that wearing the color-corrective lenses/glasses as mentioned in earlier posts is highly illegal! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif? So this probably won't be the answer to my (and others) problems. The only possibility for me to get the restriction off seems to be to try the Color Signals test (Does anyone of you know where I can get this done in or near the Netherlands?).

And, if that doesn't do the job either I think there are no options left for me but to find a job where I can fly VFR (instructor, paradroppings, airtours,...). Well... as long as I can earn a living flying! :)

Meanwhile, thanks for the tips and support!

Rog?!

[This message has been edited by Red or green?! (edited 08 January 2001).]

[Anthony2107]

RoG?!

I'm sorry to hear about the second opinion test. Go for the Colour Signal test and hopefully that should give you some chance.
:)

In regards to getting the signal test, phone and ask your country's CAA medical department, they should have info where to do the test.

Good luck !!! - and I mean it. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif

A2107


[This message has been edited by Anthony2107 (edited 09 January 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Anthony2107 (edited 09 January 2001).]