"I have control and communications, ECAM actions"

[Bagot_Community_Locator]

Most Airbus pilots should be very familiar with the above phrase, something you say when there are ECAM actions to do (blue action lines) following some type of failure.

When I was flying one day, the ECAM detected a failure and it displayed the failure on the Engine/warning display.

There were no action lines, just the failure.

I was the PF and I used those dreaded words "I have control and communications, ECAM actions", however the other pilot responded to me "this is not an ECAM action", as there were no action lines on the ECAM :confused:

Fair enough, no action line means no ECAM actions. However we/someone still had to deal with the failure, which involved :
- confirming/clearing the failure
- checking/performing any computer resets (QRH)
- reading/removing the status page
- consulting FCOM 3

I always thought all failures, whether action lines on ECAM or not, whether by reference to ECAM or QRH, were all done the same way.
Where one pilot (PF) takes control of the aircraft and communications and the other (PNF) deals with the failure, either by ECAM or QRH.

Now this pilot I was with basically told me that since there are no ECAM actions to be done, that the above phrase is not necessary (the failure is not dealt with in the usual Airbus way).

So how do you deal with a failure in an Airbus if there are no ECAM actions displayed ?
How do you deal with a failure if it requires reference to the QRH and not the ECAM ?

Do you still say "I have control and communications, ECAM actions (QRH checklist)" or do you do deal with the failure like you do in other non-airbus aircraft ? Where the PNF deals with the failure and still handles the communications and does not hand it over to you ?

[Artificial Horizon]

Personally I just keep it all standard, "I HAVE CONTROL AND COMMUNICATIONS, ECAM ACTIONS'. If no actions then the PNF should just read the failure and ask to clear i.e. "AIR PACK 2 REGUL FAULT, CLEAR AIR", then review system pages and STS. To do anything else is just asking for trouble. In my opinion this other pilot is just trying to be to clever :ugh:

[Bagot_Community_Locator]

In my opinion this other pilot is just trying to be to clever

I thought so.

Now, next question, how do deal with a pilot trying to be clever ?

What would be the appropriate response after he just told me this is not an ECAM action ?

[raraa]

tell him quite simply "please read the ecam for me" after you have assumed controls and comms. he will have nothing else to do but say the fault and ask you whether to clear. then status read and remove. if not, insist, tell him I can't fly and clear the fault because of the one head up at all times "Golden Rule"

you can also ask for a french accent :E and maybe even ask him to read it again and again until you understand what he is saying :ok:

[BOAC]

1) Acknowledge the response
2) Call for action you wish
3) Roll up newspaper and hit

[Field In Sight]

I have found that always keeping consistent with ECAM, regardless of how trivial, makes handling ECAM less error prone.

Even though there may be no blue action lines to "action" you still have to clear the ECAM (which you have to action).

Most importantly you have to review the status to see if there is any loss in capability. (which is another action).

You could always make a point by giving control to the other pilot and doing the actions yourself.

[Clandestino]

How to deal with a pilot trying to be clever ?

Insist on proper procedure being completed - even if there are no ECAM actions, one Airbus pilot flies, navigates and communicates, the other dons the F/E hat, reviews status, consults QRH/FCOM etc.

If his cleverness is limited to words only, while his actions are appropriate for the situation - no action required until "Parking checklist" is completed.

After a/c is chocked and engines are off, administer polite but firm lesson on how it's nice to be pedantic but application of pedantry requires considerable forethought. Lack thereof can lead to misapplication and entirely unwanted results.

As for SOP adherence: I found no better explanation of its importance than one found in DP Davies preface to second edition of "Handling the big jets"

[I-2021]

Hi,

your clever companion told you that there are no ECAM actions. Ok. So then you clear your failure, and you end up with status, right ? OEBs, computer reset, normal checklist. After that, you read status. He will ask you to remove the status and you will confirm it. What happens now ? The PNF must say "Ecam actions completed", as it is a legal requirement, if something happens later on and your only way to explain what happened is thru the CVR... Ecam actions completed means that you have legally completed your required procedures. But which Ecam actions if, according to what he said, there were none ? So here we are, if something pops up on the Ecam it will be an ecam action as you are definitely going to do something on that ecam, right ? Just clear the failure or perform the actions listed in blue, but you will act anyway. So legally you are going to act. If he says that there are no ecam actions, just reply "ok so don't touch anything", leave the amber failure there. Clearing a failure is an ecam action. Regarding failures that you have to deal with by QRH procedures : you should have the list of all the failures that have a paper procedure in addition or substitution of the ecam, and these will have their "ecam entry". In that case it will be "master caution whatever", then "whatever paper checklist". No need to complicate things. :hmm:

[mcdhu]

My understanding has always been that, when presented with an ECAM (Caution) with no action lines, the PNF will say "Crew Awareness, clear XXXX?" as it does in FCOM 3 Abnormal and Emergency Section

[AirbusPhp]

"Crew awareness" is what the Fcom says in those cases, and more importantly it also prompts the crew to investigate further about the failure.

[I-2021]

It depends on which level of failure you are talking about. A level 1 failure does not need any actions as it only needs crew monitoring. A level 2 failure will require crew action, at a convenient stage. There might be no further actions except clearing the title line, but as it follows a master caution, you are required to act.

edit : you will indeed clear both level of failures in the same way.

[Microburst2002]

Have you seen that video of TAP in the 320 sim?

I think it is there that I heard them say "no ecam actions" when there were no blue lines.

After many year sin real situations and in simulators, what I have learnt is that the phraseology is important, but the meaning is more important, and as someone said, adhering blindly to the sintax can be dangerous.

In the first place, the "ECAM ACTIONS" command does not necessarily follow after "I have controls" immediately. The "I have communications" doesn't necessarily follow, either. Not immediately, at least.

The order is Aviate (or fly) Navigate and Communicate. Then deal with the failure. So the ECAM actions are the last priority here. If you always say "I have controls and communications, ECAM ACTIONS" you can put the mind of the other pilot away from flight, navigation and communications too soon.

Both pilots have to ensure the Aviate part (one handling, the other supervising and assisiting), both pilots have to ensure the Navigate part (one handling, the other supervising and assisting) and both pilots have to ensure the Communicate (one talking, the other supervising, listening and assisiting). You don't split the team in two individuals yet. After these things ensured, then both pilots have to ensure the handling of the failure or failures. Both must have their minds in it, too.

Another important thing regarding this is that you have to check the SD page to confirm the failure and its details before doing any ECAM blue lines. In my opinion, the ECAM actions should never be commanded till a few seconds after the caution. Except in red warnings, nothing very bad is going to happen inmediately, so there is no rush. The ECAM actions are only there to isolate the fault. Sometimes there is nothing to isolate, but you still need to know that the item is faulty so you can troubleshoot, check the FCOMs...

The pilot handling should only order the ECAM ACTIONS after having ascertained that the ariplane follows the desired flight path at the desired speed, that the airplane is properly navigated and that necessary communications (if any) are carried out satisfactorily. The pilot non handling will have nothing else to do than to assist and supervise his mate, and detect any errors at the onset, rather than going head down as if the ECAM was in command of the airplane.

Then we can devote more attention to the failure, to its implications, do some troubleshooting and make a decision.

Getting confused like a robot with a bad code line in the software when something happens that you don't know how to express would be very sad.

Splitting a team at the very moment a failure is displayed in the ECAM is very sad, too. And exactly the opposite to good CRM, which is what we want to improve with "the syntax".

[Capn Bloggs]

Roll up newspaper and hit
Well said. :D :D

How ridiculous. An example of poor training and education. Commonsense? What's that?

[capt. solipsist]

@ microburst:

When you state "I have control", the intention is simply to declare that you are the PF and hence define task-sharing. That is why adding "and communictions" is SUPERFLUOUS, because by definition, PF in Abnormal/Emerg is responsible for the thrust levers, flt path and speed ctl, acft config, navigation AND communication.

This means that the 1st 3 items in the workload priority - aviate, navigate, communicate - is the PF's responsibility, and the 4th one, MANAGE, is that of the PNF.:}

[ReverseFlight]

I can think of only a couple of instances where you won't utter the standard words.

One is when you forget or delay turning the Packs on shortly after takeoff. Just reading the line and turning the packs back on will clear the ECAM with a nod from the PF.

The other occasion is immediately after an RTO. After the a/c has been brought to a complete stop, the PF coordinates with the tower while the PNF immediately launches into ECAM actions without being prompted by the PF - time is of the essence here.

I am prepared to be enlightened with contrary opinions.

[capt. solipsist]

Enlightened tehrefore I hope you will be:

During RTO, it is the PNF who advises the tower about the reject, not the PF. This is supposed to be done "whenever practicable" (70 knots?).

The PF sets the park brakes, does the alert PA, then order ECAM actions (if applicable).

[ReverseFlight]

the PF coordinates with the tower Misunderstanding here. Of course the PNF advises the tower initially (I agree after the 70 kts call is good) but the responsibility splits thereafter. The PF gathers info from the tower / fire crews and meanwhile PNF proceeds with ECAM off his/her own bat (your SOPs may differ here). The pathways then regroup to decide whether an evacuation is necessary, and if so, proceed to the paper checklist. Any substantial variations from this theme ?

[Microburst2002]

Agree in the packs thing.

Disagree in the RTO. I have been taught not to do anything but monitor reverse deployment and deceleration until parking brake is set. I don't know if this is airbus specific or in the airlines I have flown.

Of course, if the RTO is al low speed or in a long runway and your heart rate is normal, then you can call tower before that. Otherwise I think it is much better to stick to the many times rehearsed drill, monitor the RTO and do nothing, say nothing till the park brake is set.

anyway I think the tower controler will be aware of the RTO well before the airplane comes to a stop.

Cpt solipsist

I don't think of it as you do. I separate each thing. PF can leave comms to the PNF if he so wishes, or take the radio later rather than immediately.



And there is the old confusing moment when, for instance, the FO is PF. Because the captain will set the tasks. Many times he will initiate the ECAM actions without waiting for the FO to give the command (very frequently in my sim and real life experience). Therefore, many times, before you have ended the sentence "... controls" they are already pushing buttons all over the panels and even FCU. I decided not to race with such captains some time ago because it makes me nervous and I feel pushed to do things in a rushed manner, without paying due attention to flying and navigating. since they have already split the team, I focus on the fly-nav and request their assistance if needed (sometimes insisting several times in "set HDG xxx or V/S xxx" before they have the courtesy to do it). If flight path and navigation are satisfactory I wonder if there is any communication required. If so, I do the comm (usually a brief nature of failure and intentions). Only then I pay attention to the ECAM. Then we are a team again. Sometimes it is the reverse: they are PF and command ECAM actions when they still have the THR LK pulsing or there is need for a few FCU inputs and he "wants" to be all alone barely flying the airplane while watching you anxiously to push some panel pushbutton. Then I do my job and assist him in flying navigating before proceeding with the ECAM.

It is better to let the team be split and ensure proper flight path and navigation than remain a team without doing it and with both heads down.

I think there is still a lot to be improved in CRM and CRM training.

[tubby linton]

Ecam actions I would perform as pnf are:-
Announce failure
Look at SD to confirm failure
Having confirmed failure and with no action to perform press Clear pb having coordinated with pf
Review Status with pf
Review Inop systems with pf
Press Clear again to return Ecam to normal operation
Then consult QRH/FCOM as appropriate.
Resume normal comms handling as pnf

I always believe that the word CLEAR has two meanings with regard ecam handling.
The first is that the pf has understood what the failure is and that he is aware what actions have been performed(Al ist klar) and secondly to remove the failure on ecam.

[Slasher]

Misunderstanding here. Of course the PNF advises the tower initially (I agree after the 70 kts call is good) but the responsibility splits thereafter. The PF gathers info from the tower / fire crews and meanwhile PNF proceeds with ECAM off his/her own bat (your SOPs may differ here). The pathways then regroup to decide whether an evacuation is necessary, and if so, proceed to the paper checklist. Any substantial variations from this theme ?

In our mob its CM1 who initiates and does the abort, CM2
advises tower, 70kts etc. CM1 to full stop and park brake,
PA the girls then "I have communications, ECAM actions".
CM2 does the ECAM actions while CM1 talks to tower/fire
chief as the case may be. CM1 decides if an evacuation is
necessary, has a quick chew of the cud with CM2, then on
command the CM2 pulls the Evac checklist.

Off topic but a pet pissoff is when I ask the other guy to
activate the approach phase. He acknowledges the request,
pushes the button and then asks "Confirm?" Um..well yeh
that's what I asked for! The amber "Confirm" is like the
EXEC button on the Boeing - "Sure this is what you want
bud, or were you a shmuck and accidently selected the
blue "Activate Approach Phase" by mistake?"

[Microburst2002]

haha

I hate that, too. I never request confirmation for that as it is not required in any document or SOPs. I just go and activate/confirm, then announce it is activated.

[ReverseFlight]

Slasher's run down of the RTO sounds good.

Microburst2002 : I always request confirmation when it comes to guarded switches and irreversibles.

[Microburst2002]

confirming approach phase is not irreversible.

The CONFIRM prompt is there because it is very likely to push the LSK where the ACTIVATE appraoch phase is when passing from one performance page to another. Should this occur, all you have to do is not confirm and problem solved. But if you do press the LSK because you really want to activate the phase, then why on earth should you think it twice??

The FMGS, in NAV mode and speed managed , will activate the phase automatically, without even asking!

Even if you activate it inadvertently, it is no big deal. It is not like switching off an IDG. fly selected until you can go head down and recover the phase you want.

Oh, But in this thread we have drifted sooo much...

[Yurich]

Hello Guys!
What do you order today when ECAM actions are required? Is it enough to say just "ECAM ACTION" witch means that PF took COMMUNICATION or you say the hole phrase "I HAVE COMMUNICATION, ECAM ACTION"?

[A37575]

because of the one head up at all times "Golden Rule"


Never heard of that "Golden Rule". One head up? Seriously though - what's that supposed to mean?:confused:

[Capn Bloggs]

Never heard of that "Golden Rule".
One of ten published by Airbus. You need to know nothing about aviation as long as you follow the golden rules. "One head up" adequately describes the author/s of said golden rules... :}

[vilas]

BagotCommunity Locator

I am stating Airbus procedures. Airlinesmay differ.

1. I have controls call is only requiredif taking over controls from PNF.

2. When PF has controls he orders “ECAMACTIONS”. Communications are automatically transferred to PF.

3. The failure mentioned by you is level 1failure leading to loss of redundancy or system degradation. Amber caution generallywithout procedure. It can be dealt normal way, no need to split hair. Just note. There will be no requirement of QRH. Evaluate consequences of total loss of the system should it occur.

4. Reject take off there is no 70KTS call to prevent conditioned response to bring reverse thrust to idle. PF/CM1 evaluates this on his own. Also there is no spoilers call but only reverse green. As the aircraft stops PNF informs ATC and locates the EVAC PROC.

[MD83FO]

It is laid out in our SOP Abnormal Callouts.
"ECAM Actions"

this activates the task sharing laid out in
PRO-ABN-01 P 4/8.

TASKSHARING
The general tasksharing shown below applies to all procedures. The pilot's flying remains the pilot flying throughout the procedure.
The Pilot Flying (PF), is responsible for the:
‐ Thrust levers
‐ Control of flight path and airspeed
‐ Aircraft configuration (request configuration change) ‐ Navigation
‐ Communications.
The Pilot Not Flying (PNF), is responsible for:
‐ Monitoring and reading aloud the ECAM and checklists
‐ Performing required actions, or actions requested by the PF, if applicable
‐ Using the engine master switches, cockpit C/Bs, IR and guarded switches, with PF's
confirmation (except on ground).

Then "ECAM Actions Complete"
Normal Task Sharing.

[Trent 972]

A Question, as I have no 320 experience just 330 and 380. Just a few differences from what my FCOM manuals say.
Slasher saidIn our mob its CM1 who initiates and does the abort, CM2
advises tower, 70kts etc.
"70 knots"???? for RTO :confused:

Vilas said Reject take off there is no 70KTS call to prevent conditioned response to bring reverse thrust to idle. PF/CM1 evaluates this on his own. Also there is no spoilers call but only reverse green. As the aircraft stops PNF informs ATC and locates the EVAC PROC.
Do you not call "DECEL" as well???

Or is this amateur hour!

[vilas]

Trent 972
Decel call is there given by physical sensation of deceleration and trend arrow, not necessarily by decel light from Autobrake.

[Trent 972]

Thank you for the potato sucking lesson.
I am well aware of the 80% retardation rate required for decel annunciation and wet runways etc etc, but is "DECEL" or "No DECEL" a call in an A320 RTO as it is for the 330/380?

[vilas]

Trent 972
Yes it is there.

[A4]

Even if you activate it inadvertently, it is no big deal. It is not like switching off an IDG. fly selected until you can go head down and recover the phase you want.

For those unaware of how to recover the phase, just re-enter your current CRZ LEVEL on the PROG PAGE and you'll be back in ALT CRZ and the Cruise Phase.

T972 - we still call 70 knots during decel on an RTO.....just a reminder that, AS LONG AS YOU DONT NEED IT, reverse should be bought back to IDLE.

Additionally, in our outfit, any ECAM is initiated by the PF saying "Read ECAM" - this applies to level 1,2 or 3. PNF then reads the title and CONFIRMS THE FAILURE using all other resources i.e. E/WD, SD, O/Head panel/lights. PF then says "My radios, ECAM actions"......... The "Read ECAM" call is only made when the PF has the spare capacity available to interact with the PNF. Obviously this isn't an issue with AIR PACK 1 REG FAULT in the cruise but EFATO with a close in EOSID is a different matter.

Not convinced about the merits of PNF launching solo into ECAM after an RTO.....PF out of the loop with possible factors affecting EVAC decision lost due to PNF actions. Does the PNF make a "solo" DAMAGE/NO DAMAGE" during the ECAM?

Remember, it's called ECAM DISCIPLINE for a reason - stick to the rules, read/analyse carefully what it's asking and you won't go wrong.

[Trent 972]

T972 - we still call 70 knots during decel on an RTO.....just a reminder that, AS LONG AS YOU DONT NEED IT, reverse should be bought back to IDLE.
Thank you A4, that is different from other Airbus FCOM's I have read.

[Natstrackalpha]

1) Acknowledge the response
2) Call for action you wish
3) Roll up newspaper and hit

This is a serious issue - have you ever felt the force of The Times across your lughole? It hurts!!

[Natstrackalpha]

Never heard of that "Golden Rule". One head up? Seriously though - what's that supposed to mean?

Well you should try it, Sir?

Am just a baby but Even I know this one . . .? Its not an Airbus thing, its an airline thang, probably a BA thing or came from one of the majors many moons ago.

Head Down (or Head Up. Meaning - in general - if one is heads down dealing with something the other is heads up looking out the window or flying the aeroplane.

Specifically - it refers to flying instrument approaches when one pilot has head in the shed, flying on instrumets and the other pilot is peering out of the window for the lights - at any one time, if a pilot says heads down the other puts his head up and vice versa.

On this ECAM subject by the OP - in ECAM procedures there is a loop. The whole point of ECAM is that both pilots are in the loop.

Also - if the ECAM comes up with something but does not stipulate any action then its QRH and/or "unusual failures" - actually I forget the correct term but it encompasses any failure which may not fall under your main ECAM procedures - as taught - and trained and can be found in the QRH under . . . . page: . . ?

Also it is unlikely that another pilot would casually resist or refuse something that ought to be done after an ECAM warning - lest of course, to the point of resolving the problem, as per the procedures.

We tend to have fun here on pprune and we never tend to :mad: about in the air with 150 or (400) pax on board - that is 150 or (400) lives/families/people.
In short, over the years things have improved - as The Times is a lot smaller now - it is tabloid size, in the old days it was huge and rather than merely clip the ear, the force could send the F/O crashing back through the flightdeck door flying to the back of the fuselage.

To put it bluntly, if an F/O gobs off at a Captain for no operational reason then he will not last very long in the company, am talking after landing.

@Yurik

Hello Guys!
What do you order today when ECAM actions are required? Is it enough to say just "ECAM ACTION" witch means that PF took COMMUNICATION or you say the hole phrase "I HAVE COMMUNICATION, ECAM ACTION"?

"Your ECAM, my radio" followed by "I have control"
I fly it, talk to ATC while s/he does the ECAM actions and will ask "ok to clear" each completed action/warning - (just like in the TAP movies and prob every A320 flt in the world).
>
The only time F/O will not be required to ask "ok to clear" is during a Fire, s/he is briefed (way prior to) to just get on with it and not to ask confirmation TO CLEAR(only) but to seek confirmation before moving a fire sw, thr lever, or eng master sw . . . etc., etc., etc . . .

[vilas]

raraa & Natstrackalpha
Although One Head up at all time is valid task sharing practice it is not one of the four Airbus golden rules.

[Natstrackalpha]

The 4 Golden Rules.

Are they these?:
1/. Aviate, Navigate Communicate
2/ Use the appropriate level of automation
3/ Understand the FMA at all times. and crosscheck selections on the FMA
4/ Take action if things do not go as expected - by PF changing level of automation, by PF reverting to manual flight, by PNF taking action (and my own personal one, by not doing anything, as appropriate to number 1/. Golden rule. If its flying and its happy, wait, assess - it might just continue to fly - AF Atlantic etc, etc . . . )

[flyboyike]

Just start measuring already.

[South Prince]

Keep it simple:

PF: fly the A/C

PNF : deal with abnorm/emergency procedures regardless of line colors

[tubby linton]

Isn't it easier to say "My aircraft,my radio, ecam actions please".

[MD83FO]

i think its easier to say: ECAM Actions.

[The Actuator]

I think it is easier to think. Then to apply appropriate behaviour. to quote a classic "in aviation flexible is too rigid - you need to be fluid"

As a reluctant airbusser for more than 8 years now a person who yells "I have control and the radios Ecam actions" at me at 2 in the morning at FL360" for a pack fault, cabin fan or some other innocuous line on the Ecam is going to be met with a rather deep sigh and a face similar to this. :rolleyes:
APPROPRIATE BEHAVIOUR PEOPLE.

[vilas]

There is nothing easier or difficult. At the end of the day you either follow Airbus or your company procedure.

[I-2021]

Although One Head up at all time is valid task sharing practice it is not one of the four Airbus golden rules.


Hi Vilas,

I do remember 8 golden rules, with one head up at all times being number 3. Something has changed recently ?

[vilas]

I-2021
There are only four. I do not know if there were 8 before.
Airbus golden rules.
1. Fly, navigate and communicate.
in this order and with appropriate task sharinig.
2. Use the appropriate level of automation at all times.
3. Understand the FMA at all times.
4. Take action if things do not go as expected.

[Natstrackalpha]

Just start measuring already.

Why did you say that?