Aircraft callsigns

[chuboy]

Forgive me as this is really a question from SLF but I notice from watching live air traffic radars that many European callsigns (particularly EZY and RYR) have letters appended to their flight number - as in RYR397L. Why not just have the plane's actual flight number? Are the letters picked at random? I would like to know more.

Any insight would be appreciated.

[ron83]

It's not just EZY and RYR. More and more airlines do implement it and it should help to minimize callsign confusion since it gives more callsign if compared to using just numbers. I think you can find more info on Eurocontrol.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

The reason is an attempt to avoid callsign confusion. For example, Airbus 123 and Boeing 123 on the same frequency could cause confusion so the various authorities and airlines got together and came up with the idea of alpha-numeric callsigns. Hence you could still have those two flights together, but one might be Airbus 123AB and the other Boeing 123XY.

That's very basically what happens but there are other variations and methods by which the callsigns are determined.

HTH

[BOAC]

Chuboy - there was a time when the last two letters of the ICAO destination are used - eg speedbird 76AT flying to Athens, LGAT, or some other indicator of destination. I well recall operating the 'Speedbird xxWW' on flights to LOWW, Vienna, which was known to Maastricht as 'Speedbird xx double scotch' on occasions. :) All well and good for our beleagured UK controllers until all flights inbound to XX arrive near destination with the same suffix. It would be like having all movements into LHR suffixed 'LL'

You will also sometimes see xxxxP for a positioning flight or xxxQ for a training flight and a few other suffixes - and sometimes, of course, there is just NO logic in the callsign at all, with sometimes a single letter, sometimes a double, at the end, which is the best way to try to eliminate confusion.:)

The CAA published a thorough paper on callsign confusion in the late 90's which is worth reading. www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP704.pdf (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP704.pdf)

[chuboy]

Ah, thanks for your replies.

To clarify, at the moment I can see on the radar a flight BAW2DP, which is on closer inspect BA792 flying LHR - TLS. Would I be correct in assuming DP refers to Toulouse? Or is it just some random letter assignment done when the flight plan is filed?

I also note there is a DLH94C, known to pax as LH2228. I suppose that means it is a positioning/cargo flight, but I'm bamboozled as to why Lufthansa Twenty-Two Twenty-Eight is less preferable than the rather dissimilar Niner-Four-Charlie :confused:

Well, if the system works!

[eastern wiseguy]

Lufthansa Twenty-Two Twenty-Eight is less preferable than the rather dissimilar Niner-Four-Charlie

In simple terms there MAY be similar 4 figure callsigns.E.G Lufthansa 2226 or 2238 or 2218 which ,in a busy scenario,may end up taking each others calls/instructions. The business of ATC is all about minimising risk. We use the alpha numeric callsigns to attempt to squeeze that part of the risk out of the system. Whilst the 94HC type callsign may seem unweildy it is easier to use than Lufthansa TWO TWO TWO AIGHT.:)

[ron83]

To clarify, at the moment I can see on the radar a flight BAW2DP, which is on closer inspect BA792 flying LHR - TLS. Would I be correct in assuming DP refers to Toulouse? Or is it just some random letter assignment done when the flight plan is filed?


It is just random letters. Eurocontrol even advised airlines not to use letters which corresponds to destination,otherwise we all finish again with similar sounding callsigns.

[Mr_Grubby]

In the olden days I always liked Speedbird 11S.
On the radar it showed up as BALLS.
Made I larf.
But then again I am simple.

Clint.:ok:

[fisbangwollop]

Maybe I am even older as I remember Beeline "Papa Echo"...the days when BEA used the last two digits of their registrartion!!!......Who is BEA I hear you say????:cool::cool::cool:

[India 99]

Now your talking Beeline . . . Yeeeesss.

Now somewhere I have a photo of several lined up at jolly old LHR . . . thems were the days.

I may also have a very nice line up of HS21's in the Bravo & Charlie cul-de-sacs and . . . what about the earlier Northeast yellow babes.

I also recall clearing "some of the few" last ones to their final destinations . . . boy did they climb like rockets (stripped out and with min fuel as I recall) . . " Any chance of higher of the deck ?" . . . we always got it . . . yeeeess what a sight !

Back to the point though . . . surely you guys can't still be confusing callsigns ???!!! . . . I am sure HD will remember the callsign confusion forms we were required to put in for quite a while, which WILL have solved everything . . surely.

I still use . . SH1T . . (Shuttle One Tango) when it all goes Pete Tong in my new life . . . they seem to understand and without the need for the excessive profanities we hear on the high street ( and just about anwhere else these days )

Keep up the good work chaps . . . wherever you wear your headset . . but especially at LHR.

:cool:99

[anotherthing]

India 99

Yep, still get confusing callsigns. Scratchpads to record instances were used about 2 years ago (again). Resulted in NATS developing a callsign deconfliction tool that would help airlines detect and rectify similar callsigns if they were going to be in the same bit of airspace at the same time.

Works to a certain extent, but still get similar callsigns now and again... probaby more to do with airlines not communicating with each other than anything else, though we still get the odd instance of same airline, same route, same time, similar callsigns. You'd think it would not be difficult for the airline to sort :ugh:

[zkjaws]

The Callsign Deconfliction Tool didn't work today:

Had DAL45, COA45 & AAL45 all on the frequency at the same time.
Two were in close formation and two had departed from the same airport.

Even after pointing it out, I still managed to stuff it up

[Charley B]

Mr Grubby

Thats fab!!
Must have looked super on the screen:-)