LHR approach question?

[UKPPL]

This may sound like a very 'stupid' question but as someone who lives in West London and works in central London I'm curious...

After the horrific happenings in Sept, for well known reasons there was no heavy commercial traffic over my house or work place for days. Which made me think, why do they have to anyway..?

I appreciate there has to be a proceedural approach into LHR but why does it involve (on 27) a route straight accross central London for many miles, the last 'x' miles of which are at low altitude with the gear down ie. Bloody noisy (and I'm a pilot who likes aircraft). As well as the noise and polution there is the obvious safety issue of if (when) something goes very wrong over central London, as it sadly will do one day (by the laws of statistics).

Before someone screams at me and says, it's so they can land on 27 at LHR you idiot! The LHR traffic managed without this approach route for quite a while after Sept 11th...

I'm certainly no NIMBY but can only wonder if LHR make the whole noise/polution/safety issue worse for themselves by this approach (??).

Feedback?

[le loup garou]

UKPPL, London is a pretty big city if we weren't flying over your house we would only fly over somebody else's. After Sept 11 we started being radar vectored onto a 5 mile final after being vectored over London anyway!

It is very important that aircraft have a stabilised approach therefore generally the more staight forward the better. This also means that the gear has to come down sufficiently early to achieve this (sorry about the noise).

London ATC are remarkable individuals who humble me every day, but I suspect that the added vectoring for each aircraft after 911 increased their workload considerably, aswell as inreasing conjestion in the holds.

Added to that how do you expect us to land on 27? :D :D

I hope that this answers your question.

Regards le loup garou

[ 14 November 2001: Message edited by: le loup garou ]

[ 14 November 2001: Message edited by: le loup garou ]

[UKPPL]

Thanks for the reply.

No way, I reckon you guys should do a NDB hold at BUR, then join downwind for 27R or if the weather is really bad, do an ILS approach on 09 and then a circle to land for 27.... but stay to the north of the airfield please.

... I can see my house price increasing right now!

Cheers. ;)

[le loup garou]

UKPPL, An NDB what? Did you say hold.

Danny will take this thread away if he sees you swearing like that again. :D

If you say exactly where you live I'll tell the others and we'll promise to spool back while overhead, or maybe we'll all come take a look. :D

Regards le loup garou

[AC A340]

Hi UKPPL, The wolf man is right. LHR ATC do a fine job. As for dragging it in with the gear down and the power up, the procedure is supposed to be a continuous descent from cruise to the runway. Often times it does work out that way but occassionally it has to be a continuous descent from the dreaded Bovington hold on in. There is rarely any motoring along level and dirty with a mitt full of power. Keep flying! Blue side up!

[le loup garou]

AC A340, Theoretically the cruise to runway with engines at idle is correct but the 160 to 4 dme is pretty hard to do in my aircraft without the engines spooling back up. Admittedly it doesn't have the inertia that yours does.

Regards le loup garou

[ 14 November 2001: Message edited by: le loup garou ]

[411A]

Yes indeed, rip out the ILS and have everyone do NDB approaches....or better yet, resurrect four course radio ranges...a blast from the past!
What ever happened to MLS? Thought it was supposed to provide curved flight paths.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

UKPPL. Hi.. with the very greatest respect you do not appear to understand how a large airport like Heathrow functions. All traffic is radar controlled on to the ILS and I can't recall the last time an aircraft flew a procedural approach to Heathrow - and I've been doing the radar stuff there for 30 years. If a/c flew NDB (!!!) or VOR approaches it would be impossible to achieve the very high landing rates demanded by the airlines. Under good conditions we use 2.5nm spacing on final approach and radar is the only way to do that.

As another correspondent mentioned, commercial airliners require to be stabilised on final approach some distance from touchdown. Recent circumstances were, I hope, a one off - and it was very hard work for the crews and controllers concerned.

Why not come for a look round LATCC sometime. I'm on leave for two weeks but I'm sure if you telephoned someone could help..

[fokker]

AC A340,

For all you Canucks and Yanks out there, ;) can we get this straight once and for all; the hold north of LHR is at
Bovingdon with a 'D'. For fvck's sake don't hold at 'Bovington'...it's in Dorset!! :D

[Hew Jampton]

fokker
Well said; now we've only got to sort out the people who insist on saying, "Deans Cross"!