Why no fuel dump on Airbus?

[Bubbette]

After the Flt 587 crash, there was discussion that the Airbus can't dump fuel. Why is that?

[PAXboy]

A recent discussion lead to the understanding that they can - but it is an option. If the original carrier, for whom the machine was built, did not specify fuel dump then it will not be there.

I stand to be corrected.

[atrafford]

Only passing on info I heard in another forum: Apparently fuel dump only provided if the aircraft can't *land* with the max fuel load for that design variant (can differ from max take-off weight)
-- (Edit)
Anyone explain how a modern commercial airliner can have equal max take-off and land weights?

[ 13 November 2001: Message edited by: RecentSolo ]

[overstress]

RecentSolo:

When your handle reads RecentATPL, you will know what a stupid question that was.

[mutt]

RecentSolo

Airliners dont have the same MTOW and MLW, the figures that we use for the A300-600 are MTOW 165000 kgs and MLW 138000 kgs. The aircraft is normally restricted to landing at the MLW unless the crew deem is prudent to land immediately. In this case the aircraft is capable of landing at the MTOW.

This actually applies to ALL commercial airliners and is defined in FAR-25.

Mutt

[Wino]

Fuel dumping was really something for 3 and 4 engine aircraft and certain other operators in high terrain with enourmous MEAs(as in over 16k feet).

All aircraft can land at max takeoff weight. They have to be certified to a 360 fpm Vertical speed at max take off and a 700 fpm vetical speed at max landing weight.

The reason that a 727 dumps in the event of an engine failure, for example, is to improve the situation should a second engine fail.

Certain twin aircraft that do a lot of trans oceanic flying may have a dump system added to facilitate a quick return incase of something minor that would preclude continuing into the ETOPS portion of the flight so that they can get down to max landing weight and not have to do an overweight landing inspection or cicle for 6 or 7 or 13 hours untill they get down to landing weight.

It is not a safety thing however, it is a convenience and dollars thing (saving money on overweight landing inspections).

Cheers
Wino

[Willit Run]

Landing an A-300 overweight poses no real problem and is authorized if the touchdown rate of decent is (i think) 360 FPM or less.If the touch down rate exceeds that, you must do an overweight landing inspection, and from what the mech's tell me, it is quite extensive.So, the power is in the pen!
The L-1011-200 lands very well o'weight, we did one at 420,000 LBS and kept the rate of decent at touch down normal. Lockheed says it poses no real problem and the inspection takes 5 minutes.
Fuel dump on the A-300 is rather pathetic at again(I Think)1200lbs a minute. At that rate, you could conceivably bore around for 45 minutes to get down to landing weight. IMHO, that is foolish unless you have a 5000 ft strip for landing .

[Eff Oh]

OVERSTRESS:- Recentsolo only asked a question! For god's sake. Why does someone always have to be so nasty when anyone asks a question!!! ??? :rolleyes: I only hope that people were a bit more helpfull towards you, when you had to ask questions! Let me put this to you :-
"At 50hrs a pilot wishes he knew it all.
At 500hrs a pilot thinks he knew it all.
At 5000hrs a pilot realises he will NEVER know it all!!! "
You obviously have always known it all! :rolleyes:

To Recentsolo:- The max landing mass (MLM) will not be the same as the max takeoff mass.(MTOM) This is because, if you takeoff at MTOM then during the takeoff and flight, even if you make an immediate landing, you will burn fuel. The burnt fuel will reduce the mass of the aircraft. Therefore you cannot land at MTOM! Which is why MTOM and MLM wont be the same.

Also it has to do with the structural limit of the aircraft. I fly the Boeing 757. This aircraft is (according to Boeing) capable of landing at MTOM, but we know this aint possible. So what they say is you can land it at ANY mass up to MTOM and and if you have landed above MLM all that needs to be done, is a "Heavy landing check!" Hope this helps a bit.

Eff Oh. :)

[paulo]

"The burnt fuel will reduce the mass of the aircraft. Therefore you cannot land at MTOM! Which is why MTOM and MLM wont be the same."

In flight refuel on finals, right through flare into ground roll? Sorry, just thinking out loud :-)