Uniform Stripes...

[Katamarino]

OK, so I'm going to buy myself a set of stripes for my white pilot shirt. "Are you a complete tool?", I hear you cry. Well no, I don't think I am, but I'm flying my little puddle jumper down into Egypt and Sudan and am reliably informed that wearing these would greatly speed things up at airports due to one looking official.

My question is; how many bars should one get (4 I assume for PIC), and is there any difference in meaning between silver and gold? ;)

[Dusty_B]

You are quite right in your anti-tool argument; just don't put them on until you are over the Med!

Generally in Africa, three bars are accepted for commanders of single-crew aircraft; four bars are reserved for multi-crew command. Three will be enough to get noticed, without raising eyebrows of westerners.

No difference between silver and gold as far as aviation is concerned (you can wear anything you like, after all).

[suninmyeyes]

Epaulettes are a bit like medals. They are normally awarded to you by somebody else and if you buy them yourself you are being a bit of an impostor. I understand your reasons for getting them though.

I can understand flying clubs giving their instructors epaulettes as they are a symbol of authority although there is something faintly amusing about seeing someone with a white shirt and 4 stripes on his shoulder walk out to a Cessna 152.

Yes 4 stripes is the norm for a Captain of an airliner though flying clubs often use less.There is no distinction between gold and platinum stripes. Gold was the tradition but platinum appeared in the 80's and gold now seems a little old fashioned in the UK though common in the middle east.

If you wear a uniform through places like Egypt and the Sudan it may well lead to other complications. For instance they may ask where is the rest of your crew and if you have a uniform they may not allow you through security unless you also have a company ID card. If they discover you are doing a private flight but are pretending to be a professional pilot and wearing a uniform you might be creating a few extra problems for yourself. I seem to remember David Cyster having problems in Egypt in his record breaking Tiger Moth flight back in the 70s. If he was a pilot where was the rest of his crew, if he was a passenger where was his boarding card etc!

[Katamarino]

Thanks for the replies, and a very interesting point from suninmyeyes; does anyone have first hand experience of this kind of thing that they can share?

[DaFly]

Assuming you are in possession of an ATPL 4 stripes would be fine, 3 stripes for a CPL and I think 2 stripes for PPL (I am not sure about this one), at least that is what cadet's are allowed to wear, once they have gone past the PPL stage.

It is true, that in certain countries at certain airports proper uniform with bars do help proceedings, but be carefull: If you rock up with 4 stripes without a crew ID card, you might be asked for your licence. If that is a PPL, the benefit you were hoping for may be gone very quickly!

[Pilot DAR]

You are quite right in your anti-tool argument; just don't put them on until you are over the Med!

I totally agree. I did exactly this in 1985, while copilot in a Twin Otter, we were ferrying from Rotterdam to Lesotho. I asked my captain why he had awarded me four stripes, to his four, when I was evidently the copilot. He said it would just work better, and it did! I was actually intimidted by the respect I suddenly commanded south of the Med!

Perhaps it is a different world there now, I have not been back, and, we were flying a Twin Otter, which is presentably large, but those are my thoughts...

Oh, and for heaven's sake, when you cross back out of Africa, please put the stripes far out of sight, to prevent the ridicule of your peers....

[BackPacker]

Assuming you are in possession of an ATPL 4 stripes would be fine, 3 stripes for a CPL and I think 2 stripes for PPL (I am not sure about this one), at least that is what cadet's are allowed to wear, once they have gone past the PPL stage.

The school where I trained also gave the students (those on the professional track) one stripe after first solo (and then deducted that from their account :ugh:).

[silverknapper]

I think everyone is reading too much into it. Wear however many you like. Whatever colour you like Gold or Silver. People who call them platinum have dellusions of grandeur. You will look a prat but you sound as though you know the score on that front and won't walk about your local flying club/supermarket dressed in them. They do help massively. They average dude over there sees the bars and all is fine. He doesn't start questioning or pushing the issue. Though a crew badge will help through the airport. Can you get even an Aopa one or one from your airport if your based at a large one?
Flashing the licence will help and again I have never had mine examined closely. They see pilot licence printed on the front and your fine.
A colleague was ferrying a twin turbine through there in his shorts and T shirt and had a real hard time. Went back on board for a quick change and very suddenly everything was much much simpler.

[Katamarino]

I have a CPL so I guess I could legitimately go for three. I think I'll choose silver, they seem a bit more modest ;)

Thanks for the advice all!

[BackPacker]

The Luchtvaart Hobbyshop in Aalsmeer (just round the corner from my place) also sells five-bar epaulettes. I wonder what sort of effect they would have.

Ross, what aircraft are you going to fly down in, now that the Diamond has been sold?

[Katamarino]

I'm taking a Maule MX-7 belonging to a UK owner. We're off to look for a crashed Spitfire :ok: :p

[BackPacker]

Interesting. Have fun!

[flybymike]

YouTube - A Sarcastic View of Pattern Flying

[777fly]

By all means put some stripes on to impress gullible officials in the less desirable parts of the world, if it helps you get by. Otherwise, unless you are operating for hire or reward, you are simply feeding your ego if you wear stripes on your shirt.

[S-Works]

Oh Ross....... No no no no no no no no no.........

[Katamarino]

Calm down Steve, calm down - it is to solicit responses from all parties that I post these threads :p

[jxk]

and don't forget that big leather flight bags are rather passé in the UK a plastic shopping bag from Schiphol Airport is considered de rigeur.

[FleetFlyer]

You should pop into White Waltham with your shirt and stripes before you leave as they have a special protocol there that you may find informative.
Just let me know when you're likely to be there.

South of the Med and the bar at WW are the only places on the planet that stripes are really appreciated and given the respect they deserve.

[Geege]

Is there actually an official ranking structure for pilots? Just interested as I had always assumed it was something like this (seems similar to fire fighters and special constables rank insignia):

Captain / PIC: 4 bars
First Officer / Co-pilot: 3 bars
Second officer / Trainee?: 2 bars
Pilot in training: 1 bar

I'm not sure about 1-2 bars, what do these actually signify? and are they even used at all?

[KeesM]

As a humble PPL I only do one bar at the time, but sometimes more in one day. Cheers.

[172driver]

A little anecdote: a few years ago on one of my sorties to Morocco flew to Marrakech. Upon departure (early morning), arrived at airport to find complete mayhem. Crew have (or at least had at the time) to go through same security screening as pax. Found an official, explained I needed to get to my a/c and had no intention of waiting. Said official steered us (myself and a friend) past the huddled masses right through the x-ray scanner - past a BA crew who were standing there in their uniform finest !

Both of us were dressed in what could best be described as 'bush-pilot chic', cargoes and beat-up flight jacket. You should've seen the look on the BA captains face :E

Btw, no 'baksheesh' involved.

[FREDAcheck]

South of the Med and the bar at WW are the only places on the planet that stripes are really appreciated and given the respect they deserve.
I think you're find they're given the respect they deserve at most airfields in the UK.

[Miserlou]

A friend of mine was arrested when he left the house without his uniform whilst working in Africa.
He wasn't working that day but it was expected that he still wear his uniform!

[suninmyeyes]

Slight thread creep but....

As a young copilot in the 80's before terrorism had influenced British aviation, I was back in the passenger cabin of a Boeing in cruise attempting to calm down a frightened female passenger. I was thinking of inviting her to see the flight deck as it sometimes helped.

Back then flight movie technology was primitive, (remember those big banjo film cassettes?) and the headsets were little more than stethoscopes, just hollow tubes and the earpieces hurt your ears. No individual screens just a large fold down one at the front and mid cabin. I must have been blocking the view because from about 5 rows behind with megaphone strength a voice shouted

"OY! YOU WITH THE STRIPES, MOVE YER F**KIN' HEAD.

I seem to remember they were gold then, not that the colour would have made any difference but hopefully your ground officials in Egypt and Sudan will have more respect for your stripes Katamarino! Good luck it sounds an interesting trip.

[Ultranomad]

Katamarino, regarding gold vs. silver, in some countries/airlines, gold is used for flight crew and silver for all the rest (cabin crew, gate agents, etc.).

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'm reminded of a time when as a moderately junior boffin at Boscombe Down I was sat opposite a middle aged gent who appeared to be a Captain RN (blue jersey, four gold bars), and thus was being particularly polite and calling him sir.

Half way through lunch in the mess it finally dawned upon me that this character was the PA31 air-ferry pilot from BAe, just eating lunch while his boffins talked to our boffins, so that he could fly them home.

What's the penalty for impersonating a Captain RN ?



In the meantime, I bought a set of gold bars when I got my CPL, in case they ever came in useful. So far, they haven't, and are still somewhere in the bottom of my flight bag. I never got as far as buying the flammable polycotton white shirt, but might if I have occasion to fly in some parts of the world.

G

[trex450]

Some companies use silver for the flight crew but I think they might be the ones with a historical connection to British Airways. As for number of stripes two is for a first officer, three for a senior first officer and four for a captain. It has nothing to do with class of license held. You can go on regarding cabin crew and colours but I think you might find that gets into bars of different thickness.

[patowalker]

In the meantime, I bought a set of gold bars when I got my CPL, in case they ever came in useful. So far, they haven't, and are still somewhere in the bottom of my flight bag.

A dickie and gold bars at a popular event next w/e would probably attract more attention than the latest plastic fantastic. :)

[Morrisman1]

In my flight school you don't get gold bars till you have finished

first solo = blank epaulettes
PPL = one blue bar
CPL = another blue bar
IR = another blue bar
Completed diploma = add a gold bar

then if you get an instructor rating they take all your blue bars of off you and you just have a gold bar. B-cat instructor has 2 gold bar and A cat has 3. Chief pilot can get away without wearing his gaybars (lucky him)

It makes more sense than getting gold bars as soon as you go solo!

[CISTRS]

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee422/pimlican/PILOT.jpg

[Genghis the Engineer]

A dickie and gold bars at a popular event next w/e would probably attract more attention than the latest plastic fantastic. :)


Might be more interesting to try and tie the gold bars into a bow tie?

G

[SloppyJoe]

I would not worry about it, have spent a lot of time flying in Africa single pilot stuff in a little twin turboprop and usually wore jeans and a t-shirt. Never once had any trouble that some stripes would have sorted out. Be polite and big up their ego letting them know you are thankful for their favors and you will be fine. If you have the attitude that I am the captain and I demand you let me do so and so there are not enough stripes in the world that can help unless of course they are actually solid gold then you can pretty much do what you want in Africa.

[Neptunus Rex]

Genghis
Royal Navy officers' gold bars have a loop on the top one, almost like Customs Officers.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I think that remembering that was about the point I stopped calling him 'Sir'.

G

[vee-tail-1]

Hmnn... If you really want respect then get hold of a genuine set of Flight Engineers stripes. They are very rare and must be threadbare with oil stains... three gold bars with thin red dividers. For total authenticity an airline cap stained with skydrol, and a large metal torch complete the rig. In many far flung parts of the Empire such a person was regarded as a god by aircraft mechanics. :cool:

[IO540]

Everybody I know who actually flies down to Africa regularly nowadays (probably nobody who has posted so far) says that a pilot uniform works wonders.

Not that I would suggest getting a white nylon shirt from a N European pilot shop; you will smell worse than a pig in the heat down there.

It is nothing to do with impersonating an ATP. It's just that in those countries the people are used to blindly obeying authority, and uniform=authority. So it lubricates the process, so to speak.

[FREDAcheck]

It's just that in those countries the people are used to blindly obeying authority, and uniform=authority. So it lubricates the process, so to speak.
That's interesting, when I used to travel in India (going back a couple of decades) I found the opposite. India is also highly structured in terms of authority, but they also tended to be very jobs-worth, doing things by the book. Trying to show authority got you no where. But putting on your best English accent, always being polite and respectful, and addressing everyone in authority at "Sir", and they melted. Doors opened, and I got access to places only maharajahs could normally see, places on fully booked flights that also had a waiting list of 50, places in the directors' car on trains... And I watched people showing authority saying "Do you know who I am?" getting refused everything.

Presumably Africa isn't the same!

PS -
Everybody I know who actually flies down to Africa regularly nowadays (probably nobody who has posted so far) says that a pilot uniform works wonders.
IO, are you speaking from personal experience here? I'm not doubting you, but some of the posts here (from any point of view) seem to be mainly anecdotal and second-hand accounts.

[Sir George Cayley]

Just seen this Thread Title and my heart missed a beat as I like to see uniform stripes.

My mistake :O

Sir George Cayley

[IO540]

IO, are you speaking from personal experience here?

Not personal experience. I did plan to go down to Luxor (like the OP) a while ago but gave up after the Egyptian aviation ministry gave me the run-around. Now I know that practically everybody going down there uses an agent to book the whole lot.

I know (personally, face to face) people who do go down there, and that is their story.

Sadly I also hear some appalling stories of mandatory bribery.

I would not think Luxor is a big deal. One can fly there direct from Sitia in Crete (or from Rhodos) and they do apparently have avgas, so provided one can verify the avgas it should work OK (with an overflight agent). Quite a lot of European pilots fly down to Luxor.

[pulse1]

You can always do I've seen Geoffrey Boot do. (races a SF260). Four on one side and three on the other

[Katamarino]

I am embarrassed to report that today I bought a set of "Tool Stripes" for use in Sudan, as recommended by our Sudan handling agent. I figured he'd know best!

I'll keep them hidden the rest of the time, promise...

[Jan Olieslagers]

Why should you? Nothing wrong with looking your smartest, or is there? Just don't put them on your snorkel.

[culloden]

Many years ago . about 1994,a colleague and I passed through security at a major airport. He was wearing 4 bars I just an "aircrew" raincoat without any bars at all.
They called him "sir "and completely ignored me.
We had a discussion about this . Next day I borrowed his 4 bars and added them to mine ..result 8 gold bars per shoulder, he worn the raincoat.
I expected to be greeted with "sir sir" with my colleague being completely ignored.
Result ....total shock and amazement from the security staff as they waved us through with a frown.
Don't think they would see the funny side today.

Good luck !

[S-Works]

Katamarino
*
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Den Haag, NL
Posts: 538
I am embarrassed to report that today I bought a set of "Tool Stripes" for use in Sudan, as recommended by our Sudan handling agent. I figured he'd know best!

I'll keep them hidden the rest of the time, promise...


It's a Maul for gods sake......

[Whopity]

I recall an RAF VC10 captain who only had one stripe; the co-pilot had 2 and a half, and got paid considerably more; but then so did the loadmaster!

[Katamarino]

Sorry Steve, I figured the Sudan agent would know better that most of you guys :ok:

[WestWind1950]

1991... this "smart" looking dude is a captain, as noticable by the 4 gold stripes....

http://www.dorrie.de/reports/1990s/USAballooning1991/1991FebBalloon2.jpg

.... of a hot air balloon!! http://www.dorrie.de/images/smilies/laughing.gif

Westy

[Pilot DAR]

It's a Maul for gods sake......

I used to fly (so I guess that made me the captain) a Maule with stripes. There were three, and they were white.

But then the plane was red, so that worked out well for a good looking paint scheme.

[airborne_artist]

Sir will not be complete with just three bars in some African countries.

May I suggest he also has a pair of these in his nav bag, for when three bars and a bribe isn't quite enough:

http://www.gripflexcorporation.com/images2/pop_epu.jpg

[Maoraigh1]

As a PPL, I find a jacket with 4 platinum stripes essential at many UK airfields. 2 run horizontally round the jacket waist. One runs vertically up over each shoulder and down the back.

[mary meagher]

Checked in at a Mariott in Corpus Christi, Texas. No uniform, no stripes, no flight bag, no bag at all. I had to stay overnight because the 152 was weatherbound. They were exceedingly kind when I explained, and gave me a flight crew discount and a free toothbrush.

[Vortex81]

An interesting read. I was thinking along similar lines, but more dress code. Those training for their PPL or currently holding a PPL, do you find attitudes change towards you if you dress rather smart or not?

[FREDAcheck]

An interesting read. I was thinking along similar lines, but more dress code. Those training for their PPL or currently holding a PPL, do you find attitudes change towards you if you dress rather smart or not?
I don't think it matters a jot how you're dressed up at the average GA airfield, provided you don't have stripes on your epaulettes (unless you really are a commercial company pilot).

[Jan Olieslagers]

Well, come to think of it, I never dress smart and often find myself treated as a fool. But I'm not sure it comes from my appearance.

[BackPacker]

I was thinking along similar lines, but more dress code.

I have observed that the respect and treatment that a pilot receives, is more or less inversely proportional to the size, content (and to an extent shininess) of his flight bag.

Compare the pilot who just walks in with a battered kneeboard and a well-used headset, to the pilot who walks in with the biggest leather flightcase that Jeppesen makes, filled with GPSs, Icomms, PLBs, PCAS, charts for the whole of Europe and beyond, plus flight guides, three fuel testers, eight frequency reference cards, five rulers, two flight computers, three high-viz vests and a life jacket and then tells you he came all the way from an airfield 20 miles away.

[Legalapproach]

Culloden

Has anybody ever called you sir?

[Sir Niall Dementia]

I once flew my own aeroplane to work where she was going to have a new prop fitted. Left her at the hangar and flew off on a three day trip.
Arrived back in the UK and picked her up to fly back to our base airfield (this was before I moved and got my own strip) I have never been allowed to live down my arrival outside the flying club in full pilot get up including cap, stripes, I.D card, with briefcase and suitcase in a Rollason Condor:O

[FREDAcheck]

I have observed that the respect and treatment that a pilot receives, is more or less inversely proportional to the size, content (and to an extent shininess) of his flight bag.
Oh dear! I'm rather a squirrel, and tend to have loads of rubbish in a big flight bag, and don't bother to take just what I need. I'd better go back to my previous habit - bringing charts and headset in a Tesco carrier bag.

[IO540]

The ATPL schools make their students wear uniforms "to get them used to the professional environment" but in normal GA in Europe one just looks silly.

Even down in Greece I cannot imagine it will be of any use. In some cases a passenger could pretend to be "crew" and avoid the 10-20 euro passenger tax but IME they are likely to ask to see his/her license...

In Spain, in years past, a uniform would get you tax free avgas at certain airports, and this was really worth it (a ~ 30% saving) but I don't think it works anymore. You need to produce a piece of paper with "AOC" on it at the pump for this to work. You also need to produce a VAT number, and this does apparently get checked by somebody back at the office.

IMHO, a uniform is also damn uncomfortable to wear in a warm cockpit for a long period.

[mary meagher]

I used to feel really sorry for the United Airline women pilots, their uniform was the most dowdy ever devised. Even a Burqua would have been better! Cabin crew were not very smart either. Would that they could all look as sexy as Leonard DeCaprio......or those Virgin ads!

[Pace]

I have flown in the far East, Africa and IMO dont even think about not wearing a uniform.

On one trip I had an Arabic co pilot who was not rated on the jet. The idea was to treat the trip as a training trip.

Once we landed and went out in the evening He turned up in full flying regalia just so he could get respect from his fellows.

A uniform is highly respected in those cultures!

I can remember on numerous occasions being embarrassed by Military personel saluting you. (do you salute back?) :)

You are in a totally different culture so wear the uniform even piloting a microlight unless you want to extend your groundtime X2 and get treated like rabble

Pace

[AfricanEagle]

An interesting read. I was thinking along similar lines, but more dress code. Those training for their PPL or currently holding a PPL, do you find attitudes change towards you if you dress rather smart or not?

Uniform and stripes are part of the culture in many southern countries and allow for quick transit through airports.

In Europe, dress has never been a problem. I always wear jeans, t-shirt and cap, and carry a scruffy bashed up flight bag. Never had problems going through airport controls and jumping waiting pax thanks to the AOPA Air Crew badge (great piece of plastic useful for getting hotel discounts too ;)).

Regarding attitude I had to laugh the other day. We were three club aeroplanes arriving from Bosnia with a stopover in Pescara onbound to Rome, two India and one Golf registered. ATC treated the two Indias speaking Italian as normal PPLs. Flying the Golf aeroplane I chose to speak English and got treated as a professional pilot with a "Sir" at the end of every transmission :)

[Jan Olieslagers]

Perhaps we could consider defining a uniform for those private fliers venturing into exotic skies?

-) must be clearly recognisable as a uniform. This excludes jeans and the like
-) a jacket and trousers seems the obvious basic concept, any alternatives?
-) would the ladies insist on skirts? and the jacket's buttons being the other way round?
-) anything on our heads?
-) shoes and socks imperative!
-) sunglasses almost as imperative
-) must be decent, i.e. the trousers full length, and if skirts also defined they must go below the knee.
-) be practical, i.e. light for the mostly hot climates involved, easy to wash and quick to dry
-) as a pilot's garments, lots of pockets are required
-) provisions for attaching stars/stripes as considered appropriate

[Katamarino]

I was thinking of lightweight Khaki trousers and a short sleeved white shirt to go with my stripes if I ever make it into Sudan :p Stripes can be removed well before landing anywhere else, to minimise the risk of bose-x's head exploding!

[mad_jock]

What you really need is one of these

AV Eight Luxury Accessories (http://www.aveight.aero/Collection/Luxury%20Accessories/Product%20Group%20-%20Luxury%20Accessories/Jewellery/Captains%20Ring)

In africa you can wear what you like, Just have a shirt with bars attached to it and you will be fine.

Most of the guys I saw had kaki shorts with kaki shirt with bars on and dripping wet armpits.

[IO540]

These limited pieces are exclusively for those deserving of the right to display the four gold bands and the quality reflects the measure of such an achievement exquisitely.

That's hilarious.

[Piper.Classique]

would the ladies insist on skirts? and the jacket's buttons being the other way round?
Good grief!
I have enough difficulty climbing in and out of the Cub in trousers and t shirt, never mind a skirt. And how do I strap on the kneeboard in a skirt? Plastic bag for the maps and headsets does fine thanks. Oh, and I don't think zips are handed on overalls, which provide pockets for pencils and suchlike, plus a backpack for walking to the pub. Cheapskate, see, don't do taxis.....

[mad_jock]

Well you could use a sporran.

http://www.thekiltstore.com/images/-%20Sporrans/L-punk%20sporran.jpg

Although you might have a few probs getting through security.

And the pinkster used to fly in a skirt alot, she just used to hike it up for the kneeboard. Thankfully she had pretty good legs that would make alot of young burds jealouse so it wasn't really a hardship.

[Piper.Classique]

Love the sporran! BTW, does anyone else find it entirely silly going through the metal detector to get to one's own aeroplane? That's even stupider when they then have to let the plug spanner and pliers, stanley knife, pickets, flares etc, etc through.
And how many people so far have hijacked a 60 year old two seater that flies so slowly it has a rear view mirror? I mean, if I crashed it into a nuclear power station I wouldn't even break their windows.....

[mad_jock]

how many people so far have hijacked a 60 year old two seater that flies so slowly it has a rear view mirror

Are we discussing an aircraft type or a pilot type?

[Piper.Classique]

Well, Mad Jock, I am a bit younger than the aircraft, and only have one bum. I fly at the same speed as the aircraft though......If you would like to hijack the pilot please supply a photo of your aircraft and hangar :E

[flybymike]

Does that Sporran go pointy side in or out?

[BEagle]

Would the ladies insist on skirts?

Well, shorts like this would certainly get them noticed in some parts of the world:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/shorts.jpg

(and yes, I do have the rest of the photo, no, it isn't the Pink One and no, you aren't going to see it!)

[IO540]

If that's your co-pilot, it's good to know you are keeping in good shape ;)

[wsmempson]

MadJock, I always wonder who buys things from organisations such as AV Eight - I'm not sure how keen I am to insert my finger into either the Captain or engineers ring.:ooh:

[mad_jock]

Unfortuantely Piper I have only logged 40 hours on a Cougars (GA7's) and that was many years ago now, so long my rating has drop off.

As for my current ride unfortuantely no hanger and she has a habit of leaking from the most unexpected places. But she does have 3300 shaft horse power and handles like a dream, especially when dirty with the rpm's up.

I know what you mean I always shudder when I see an engineer adjusting his own ring on the apron.

I must admit I had a wee bit of yip pee when I thought they might have a wanky license holder instead of my plastic thing. But unfortunately they didn't have a ostrich skin license holder

[jxc]

Not sure if I should say this after the previous comment but I think the
Engineers ring looks better :oh:

[wsmempson]

life has come to a pretty pass when you find yourself admiring the engineers ring.:rolleyes:

[Piper.Classique]

:D:D:D:ok:

[Piltdown Man]

How about some medals as well? That's bound to impress somebody!

PM