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sevenstrokeroll
15th Apr 2011, 02:47
While writing and reading the news/rumor forum on the southwest 737 hole in the fuselage, I was pleased to see so many people singing the praise of Douglas airliners and their robust design and simple, strong systems.

I hope us FANs Of Douglas can talk here!

stilton
15th Apr 2011, 03:06
Er, yes, would that include the DC10 and MD11..

sevenstrokeroll
15th Apr 2011, 03:52
I guess I was speaking to purists...the DC10 and MD11 were more MD than DC

So, let's make it single digit douglas.

singpilot
15th Apr 2011, 04:02
Have lots of time in those, many fond memories. Thought we were riding high when the -32's came online, then the -50's. Those were real airplanes, all of them.

Avionker
15th Apr 2011, 20:57
MD-80's are quite possibly the worst aircraft I have had the misfortune to work on. From a maintenance point of view they are a nightmare, in my opinion anyway. And that is because of the basic design, not the systems themselves. Accessibility is dire to say the least.

The Range
16th Apr 2011, 02:35
The thing is that Douglas aircraft were made by pilots, Boeing are made by engineers, and Airbus by politicians.
I loved the DC-9.

stilton
16th Apr 2011, 03:08
I don't think there's any doubt as to the quality of the DC8 and The DC9.


It was after that that things went badly, basically after the merger with MCD.

sevenstrokeroll
16th Apr 2011, 03:27
Thank you fellow Douglas guys!

I have this lovely advertisment from the 50's, with a Douglas DC7C circling the globe and the caption that more airline flights were flown on douglas than any other make.

Things happened and Douglas and Mc became one. competition for the jumbo jets had boeing in the lead and Douglas hurried up the DC10 with some less than positive results.

I think the entire aviation industry would be better off if the US govt. hadn't authorized the merger of McD and Boeing. Douglas needed a breather and a refresh, but damn the 8 and 9 were great jets.

I too think the 9 is as close to a fighter as you can get in a transport.

Douglas was first around the world...and both the 8 and 9 were taken supersonic in testing.

11Fan
16th Apr 2011, 03:38
http://www.dc-8jet.com/Images/logo-fly-dc-jets-sign-lg.jpg

The lights are on, but nobody's home I'm afraid.

The West side of Lakewood Boulevard is history, save for the Flight Test Building and the West Ramp. The East side hangars where the 9's (80's, 90's and 717's) were built is now a film studio of sorts.

sevenstrokeroll
16th Apr 2011, 04:55
are the lights still on the fly DC jets sign?

Intruder
16th Apr 2011, 08:51
So, let's make it single digit douglas.
As in A-1 (Skyraider) and A-4 (Skyhawk)? :)

WHBM
16th Apr 2011, 08:59
The thing is that Douglas aircraft were made by pilots, Boeing are made by engineers, and Airbus by politicians.
This is presumably a variant of an old expression which went ....

"The best aircraft would be designed by Lockheed, built by Boeing, and with Sales & Marketing by Douglas".

Notable which of the three skills carried its organisation through to the commercial aircraft market of today.

Chris Scott
16th Apr 2011, 10:21
Pity you feel you have to limit it to the single-digits (both fine aeroplanes). All types seem to have their moments, although the VC10 has had a remarkably clean technical record compared with its contemporaries, Addis Ababa notwithstanding; and admittedly with a small fleet.

I think it's wrong to dismiss the other big "Ten". The DC10-30, in particular, was and is a very fine aircraft. (Even though its electromechanical instruments and semi-integrated flight-director system seemed rather dated by the late 'Eighties when I flew it.)

Quote:
I too think the 9 is as close to a fighter as you can get in a transport.
Sorry, but can't resist a plug for the 1-11, which preceded the "9". (See "Roll rate (http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/446123-roll-rate.html)".)

Quote:
I have this lovely advertisment from the 50's, with a Douglas DC7C circling the globe...
How many engine changes did it have on the way round? ;)
The 6B, for me, was the apogee.

Che Guevara
16th Apr 2011, 10:32
Loved the DC-8, fine aircraft.

WHBM
16th Apr 2011, 13:02
Quote:
I have this lovely advertisment from the 50's, with a Douglas DC7C circling the globe...
How many engine changes did it have on the way round? ;)
The 6B, for me, was the apogee.
OK, Douglas aficionados, why did Douglas move on from the DC6B, engines as reliable as you could get then, to the DC7, whose engines were a step backwards in reliability.

The Wright engines were well known by this time for failure problems that were never cracked. DC6 operators would laugh at Constellation operators for their reliability record. The best demonstration is what happened just a few years later when the jets came along. DC6Bs were by and large sold on to secondary operators; DC7s went to the scrapyard, unsellable after just a few years.

sevenstrokeroll
16th Apr 2011, 15:27
Intruder...this was for airliners by douglas...start another thread for the great military birds.

Chris scott...the BAC1-11...we flew them too, but we called the 9 the rocket...we called the BAC1-11 something else.

My mention of the DC7C was a picture in an ad. I think the first Douglas I saw was the DC2 in the movie, "Curly Top". Also saw the curtiss condor, but that's not the point.

AND that's another thing. The famous song, "on the goodship lollypop" was sung in reference to the DC2. Shirley Temple was having a birthday party aboard it as it was taxied around.

Now, how many boeing songs were there?

twochai
16th Apr 2011, 15:36
Now, how many boeing songs were there?

I'm not certain about songs, but 'Boeing-Boeing' (written by a Frenchman, no less) ran for 6 years in the West End.

11Fan
16th Apr 2011, 15:38
Now, how many Boeing songs were there?

but 'Boeing-Boeing' (written by a Frenchman, no less) ran for 6 years in the West End.

And, they made a movie of it as well. Several of them actually.

[/URL]
[URL="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058981/"]Boeing (707) Boeing (707) (1965) - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1360305152/tt0058981)

11Fan
16th Apr 2011, 15:45
sevenstrokeroll,

are the lights still on the fly DC jets sign?

Actually, I'm only there during the day. I'll go by and have a look some evening.

Slasher
16th Apr 2011, 20:04
I loved the DC-9.

Yeh me too (-30srs was the fleet) although I wasn't on it for
long (227 hrs). It always struck me as a "leather jacket and
moll" machine with its 280kt slat limit among other things. I
went 727 after that (the then "collar and tie" fleet) and had
to learn how to be a gentleman. :(

All us Dizzy-9 guys who bidded to the 3-holer got a rollicking
from the 727 training guys because we were all a mad bunch
of petrolheads (well us FOs anyway!)

Below is one of the leather jacket fleet parked Melbourne Airport
in Oz with a "collar and tie" example taxying in the background.
In between is a F27-200 (20-ton dog whistle) which was my
previous fleet -

http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/attachments/forum8/53686d1254043585-0184169.jpg

sevenstrokeroll
16th Apr 2011, 21:30
great picture ...good way to think about it...leather jacket, vs tie and coat!

I remember the 280 knot speed on the slats!!! Our airline voluntarily observed 250 knots, but we knew we could pop them out at 280 if we had to!

I flew the DC9-32 also. just so much fun.

AS to "BOEING , BOEING" both play and film, it was more an homage to the beautiful ''stews'' of the day than the plane. And the VC10 was mentioned too.

I do remember a song called, ''the jet set''...life was heaven in a 707 and just great in a DC8.

Douglas rules!

Biggles78
16th Apr 2011, 23:51
I was told by a Sim Instructor from TAA who I was doing my IR subjects with that you could dump the gear at 300kts? Have never looked it up so, was that true?

sevenstrokeroll
17th Apr 2011, 00:01
300 knots or .7 mach is the landing gear extension and extended speed on the DC9-30...just checked my book

bubbers44
17th Apr 2011, 01:19
Unfortunately I never got the real DC9 just the sim for the DC9 Super 80, later the MD80. The Super80 had a lot of glitches because we got the first bunch with bad microswithes that caused a lot of problems. I guess that is why I favored Boeing, because that wasn't happening. It was new so had lots of problems. We called it a DC9 with an apple computer because it was always screwing up. Wish I had flown the original. I always trusted Boeing, turned down all A300 bids and all 4 Boeing types I flew never let me down. My favorite was the 757. So much performance and no matter what failed you were good to go. It is an airplane that won't hurt you unless you do something really stupid.

wes_wall
17th Apr 2011, 01:33
The DC8, my first jet. Began in the 31, grew up with the 55, and spent a short time in the 61 and 63 before moving to the 707 when my company decided to implement commonality to the fleet. Great airplane, but then again, I thought that about all the airplanes I drove during my career.

gooneydog
17th Apr 2011, 03:22
I still fly the -15 and -32 regularly Did most way across the USA & back in one yest 9.4 hours Love it

poina
17th Apr 2011, 06:59
DC-8-73, Strongest machine I've ever been in. There was a feeling of trust throughout the flight envelope that was never exhibited by Boeing or Airbus in my opinion!

galaxy flyer
17th Apr 2011, 07:54
Slasher

That's Essendon, correct?
GF

Slasher
17th Apr 2011, 07:59
The DC8, my first jet.

Yep you never forget your first jet - DC9 in my case. Bit
like the first time you fall in love isn't it - you never love
another woman quite the same way again.

And yep gear extension/extended was 300kt.

It was common practice to pull the gear/slats/flaps 10 kts
under placard. But design engineers in those days always
built in a fudge factor so us petrolheads never really took
things very sedately.

FyG2VPSODLE

Slasher
17th Apr 2011, 08:00
galaxy f -

Nope Tullamarine Airport. Essendon was the main airport till
1969 I think.

WHBM
17th Apr 2011, 09:38
Now, how many Boeing songs were there?
Played a lot in the 1970s was Gordon Lightfoot, "In The Early Morning Rain".

"Out on runway number nine
Big seven-o-seven set to go"

Early Mornin’ Rain Lyrics - Gordon Lightfoot (http://www.lyricsfreak.com/g/gordon+lightfoot/early+mornin+rain_20061596.html)

Notable is that Lightfoot came from Canada, where both major carriers were DC8 operators.

In between is a F27-200 (20-ton dog whistle) Hadn't heard this nickname before, but oh how true; gave me a good laugh :)

john_tullamarine
17th Apr 2011, 11:43
Slasher,

That would have to be young Ted M in the left seat, would it not ?

aterpster
17th Apr 2011, 16:37
WHBM:

OK, Douglas aficionados, why did Douglas move on from the DC6B, engines as reliable as you could get then, to the DC7, whose engines were a step backwards in reliability.

AAL and UAL Trying to get the impatient business folks from LAX or SFO to JFK quicker, efficiency and reliability be damned. TWA had brought the 1649G on-line.

sevenstrokeroll
19th Apr 2011, 04:06
just read a little piece that said the DC930 series is more fuel efficent than the airbus A319/18 on flights of 500 miles or less.

my airline was dumb to get rid of the 9's.

wes_wall
19th Apr 2011, 20:52
I recall as a FO when flying the 50 series, fuel efficent operation translated into how far can I go today. Summer flying, FCO JFK was always questionable non stop. Often if the decision was made early enough, SNN would get a breif visit, and the pax treated to a nice duty free shopping event. Or if the winds seemed to be more favorable, (rarely were) and if JFK became unable after SNN overfly, BKR would get the pleasure of our drop in. No Goose, No Gander, was still not quite true west bound in the summer.

AerialNinja
28th Apr 2011, 04:30
I loved flying on the DC-8, loved those huge windows

sb_sfo
28th Apr 2011, 05:22
As a taxi/runup mechanic, I enjoyed taxiing the -63 at ORD in the rain. No wipers, just the bleed air blast across the windshield when the rain removal actuated. Good times...and that was one long-ass airplane. Only about 6 fewer seats than the DC-10!

Graybeard
28th Apr 2011, 06:21
DAC scrapped the tooling for the DC-8 to make way for the DC-10. Flying Tigers offered them an order for 25 DC8-63F at any rate DAC wanted to build them, but DAC refused. Widebody was the rage.

Development and guarantees for Cat III autoland with the Bendix PB-30 autopilot on the DC-10 bankrupted the company, and allowed McDonnell to take over. The Sperry autoland on the 747 wasn't much better, but Boeing survived it. The Lear-Siegler/Collins autoland on the L-1011 was good for Cat IIIc, and maybe the best part of the airplane.

Imagine if DAC had stuck with the DC-8. How soon would more efficient engines been available?

GB

olepilot
28th Apr 2011, 23:37
DC9-21
That was a real race machine

3holelover
28th Apr 2011, 23:45
:ooh:... Who's the cluck that said the DC10 is more MD than DC????

Give your head a shake mister! The Dear Old Diesel Dixie was the BEST of the Douglas Corp beasts! She stands as the sturdiest truck in the DC fleet, and the most useful. An icon of aviation achievement. The pinnacle of DC's expertise. A fabulous machine with a perfect combination of mechanical wizardry and technical design. ... Simply, one of the best aircraft ever built!

737ngpilot
30th Apr 2011, 19:12
Flew the DC10 dash 10,15,30,40 allover the world.The best airplane I ever flew. I miss it. The 30 was my favorite,followed by the 15 that was a 10 with 30 engines.Amazing climb. The worst was the 40, the PW engine sucked, had 6 engine fails,TOD engine stalls, never pulled all engines back at the same time as they could all stall out, the J mod did help. never had an issue with the GE, burned less fuel too

WHBM
30th Apr 2011, 19:21
The Lear-Siegler/Collins autoland on the L-1011 was good for Cat IIIc, and maybe the best part of the airplane.
I think some of us here will miss an old friend, who would certainly have picked up on this comment ....... !

Storminnorm
30th Apr 2011, 19:23
The old DC 10 - 30 made a bl**dy good freighter.

The Range
1st May 2011, 03:37
Max gear extension speed on the DC-9 is 300 kts.,
but max gear extended speed is 320 kts.

DCDriver
3rd May 2011, 21:59
I loved the look of the big Douglases as a boy and was lucky enough to go on to fly many of them for an unbroken 25yr stretch - I initially converted from the BAC 111 to the DC9-32 in the '70's and immediately realised why the former didn't sell! The DC9 on 1 eng was better than a 1-11 on 2 with DMW injection! I was sold for life.
Converted to the DC9-81 in 1981 before it was rechristened "MD", I liked that too for the technology but it wasn't as operationally flexible as it's predecessor.
Got my first Command on the '9, which could do 320kts down the ILS (or downwind for a visual), then drop the gear at 300, slats at 280, (speedbrake!! speedbrake!!) and still get in. And the DC9-15 climbed at 4000 fpm all the way to FL200 when it became slightly more sedate. I was lucky enough to fly every DC9 variant bar the -21 (pity!), although I have to admit the -51 was a bit of a pig.

The absolute pinnacle was the DC10-30 - who on earth said earlier it was an MD??? - the best a/c I ever flew. Every time I walked out to that beautiful a/c I felt privileged to be doing so. Did my last flight on it 10yrs ago this month.
Would have loved to get my hands on the stretch '8, but I suppose you can't have everything..... :):)

Now flying Peugeots - sorry, Airbuses :sad:

NG_Kaptain
5th May 2011, 22:45
Flew the DC-9 30 and 50 for three years as copilot followed by fifteen years as captain on the DC-9 and MD 83, they were my favourites, beats the 737NG, and the wide body Airbuses I currently fly, I always try to think that the best aircraft around is the one I currently fly, but the DC-9 and MD 80 are the best "pilots aircraft" ever. I did fly the L1011 for a year, and that was one great aircraft. The Buses I fly now are no where near to the McDonnell Douglas products I cut my teeth on.

gooneydog
6th May 2011, 01:06
I have 5 weeks left on the Dc-9 before forced retirement will make the most of every day love it

Graybeard
6th May 2011, 01:22
Back when the MD-80 was the newest thing, pilots called their job, "Dialing for Dollars."