Leave Canada?

[El_Duderino]

Hey all just looking for some opinions. This is my situation, currently RJ FO at Jazz, been here for just over 3 years. Seniority sucks, hasn't moved at my base at all only been pushed down more and more. Upgrade will be at the very minimum 5-7 years and most likely not at my base.

I just recently interviewed at Transat and waiting for an answer there, don't know what to expect with that. But lets just say I am not counting on that.

Now just today I received an email from Emirates for interview invite this summer. I have my pick of dates anywhere between June and September. I would like to attend an interview to see what happens.

I have never been to the middle east and have read many of the posts here on pprune regarding EK and Dubai. I am single and have very little keeping here besides my family. I am just reluctant to have to move to the other side of the world.

After reading the debacle of a TA that AC has right now, I don't see much future in Canadian aviation. I think no matter what happens at AC the working conditions and wages in Canada are going to go down, which is pretty sad. My current company may not even exist in a few years and Transat now seems ok now but if AC LCC gets off the ground that could spell big trouble for them as well.

I guess just looking for some advice from the guys who have been in the Canadian industry a long time. I would like to continue working as a pilot for the rest of my career (30 years). Just don't know if Canada is the best bet for that.

Thanks

The Dude

[grind king]

Yo Dude,

I'm not someone who rights on these post very often because more often than not they are full of sh&t, but i thought i'd chime in on this one as I was in the exact same situation a few years ago. I was a former Jazz f/o in 2000ish and was constantly getting lay-off notices, then they would rescind it and so on and so on. With a young family in tow I could no longer live like this, so I decided to look over seas. (West-Jet wasn't my thing but not a bad option for Canada)
In my case my career took me to Asia for 5 years then back to Canada on a base with the same company. For me and my family It has been by far the best decision I have ever made.
From a life style point of view, the adventure has been great. The ability to travel, and the experience of living overseas has opened our eyes and expanded our horizons in ways living in Canada could not. If anything it has taught as what it means to be Canadian as we now have a comparative frame of reference. Besides the travel and lifestyle, the friends we've made come from all over the world and because we are all overseas for the same reason it becomes a very social tight knit group.
As for the career, it just propelled me so far ahead of my Canadian colleagues both financially and career wise and gave me the opportunity to fly big jets all over the world with a bunch of really great guys. (99% of them) Of course it is not all a bed of roses. Like any company my company is also trying to cut cost and aggressively manages their employees, however they are profitable which means job security and they have never laid anyone off. Can't say that for Canada. And for me now, it's come full circle as I'm living at home in Canada but I have nothing to do with Canadian aviation.
In closing if you're thinking about it, check it out. Do the research go for a trip over there or try the interview, and take what you read on these forums with a grain of salt. Their problems are not necessarily your problems, so make your own decisions. If you take the plunge and don't like it you can always try something else. At least you'll have a heavy endorsement in your back pocket.
Anyway that's my two cents. Hope it helps.
GK

PS. My decision could have only been better if I made it when I was younger and single. WOW good times!!

[fatbus]

I have been at EK for 9+ now and it has been good for the most part but having been here for that length of time I feel its time to go back . One problem being no jobs in Canada worth going back to. Alot of guys are going to do 10 years and move on meaning family back to Canada and the pilot job where ever.

People we fly with are great, people we work for terrible.

If you were to come to EK think 7 years + to upgrade , Airbus being better than 777 for new joiners, fleet plan by 2020 250 AC most being AB.

A new guy one year 330 than 380 and by the time upgrade comes 380/350, 777 to actually decrease in size starting 2013/14

Alot of pilots have and will do 20 years here but its not for everyone.

If you have a wife and/or kids its hard on the wife and great for little kids not great for older kids (teens).

[Saltaire]

Being young and single is a much easier situation. I would say most guys are having lots of fun and enjoying networking in Dubai. :ok: socially it's very good from what I see.

Longer term it's a tough call and once you leave it's likely you'll be staying a long time. That's not easy.

It's probably a vast improvement from Jazz but you'll only know it's for you by checking it out...I'd at least come for a look.

Good luck

[clunckdriver]

Like so many in this game you dont seem to grasp the "Big Picture", as I stated in previous posts what is going on in the ME, and will continue to go on untill the tyrants/Royal families/Elite are gone, is going to have a profound affect on jobs in the Sandpit. {And before the nay sayers rant on, yes Ive lived/ worked there, yes I speak some of the local lingoes, and have spent time dealing with the politics in the area} Last week I had a conversation with some EK pilots, only one understood the ramifications of the present situation,{ this even after the detention of various activists in the UAE.} The problem we have is who will replace these folks? Lets hope its democratic, peacefull, progresive Governments, but didnt we all hope this for Iran? Do what you want, its your life, but understand that if you have spent your life in a Western democracy life in the ME might come as a bit of a shock to the system! Good luck in whatever you chose.

[KAG]

Canada is great for its big bush aviation and to start a career.

Concerning the airline jobs, that's a different story.

[Saltaire]

Clunck, your broad stroke assertion is far too vague in my opinion. There might be flare ups in Egypt, Iran, Bahrain, Syria, Algeria, etc. The ME is a big place and the wealth in the UAE is substantial, nowithstanding Dubai's debt payments. Poor nations with rising food prices and no jobs is the problem, such as Egypt. I could be dead wrong, and I'll be the first to admit it, but the Arabs need somewhere to play and call a safe house, that place is Dubai and the UAE. The locals dare not risk their fancy cars, yaughts, and russian party companions. I see zero chance of a problem in Dubai unless something completely unforseen happens. Saudi Arabia is the biggest threat IMO, but they'll likely just throw money at the people as well.

Just for perspective, I left mainline AC years ago and although I certainly miss my family and it's been far from perfect, I have a much better stable career and have no regrets. I see the latest TA from AC as just the start of a slow downward decline, which was one of the reasons I left. The writing has been on the wall for the work rules and DB pension for a long time.

I'm the last one to sell you on EK or being an expat and leaving home, but I would have a look.

Just my opinion.

[El_Duderino]

Hey guys thanks a lot for all the great input, you have all given me a lot to think about. I am going to go to the interview for sure and get a feel for things when I am there. I know whatever happens will not be an easy decision.

I guess the main thing for me is that i enjoy flying for a living and would like to continue that until I am ready to retire and in the meantime would like to get compensated well for it. Unfortunately seems like it will not be the case in Canada.

And as far as upgrade time at EK I am not too concerned with that, as that will be the upgrade time at Jazz for a DHC-8 100. I am looking more for long term stability I don't care what seat I am sitting in right now. Eventually I'd like a command position but would be more than happy to have a stable job in the meantime.

I also realize that right now in my life is probably the best time for me to make a big move as I have no wife and kids. And not prospects as the moment either haha.

And Clunk I do see the big picture, I just wanted some insight from old timers like yourself who have been in the business for as long as you have. I realize whats going on in the ME and I am not willing to just jump blindly into a job on the other side of the world without doing some research. But I thank you for your opinion.

I really am thankful for all the responses so far from you guys. Its nice to have input from both sides.

One more thing, I noticed no one really commented on Transat, as I am waiting from a response from them. Anyone have a comment or an opinion on them?

Thanks again guys this has been great so far.

[MackTheKnife]

ACPA is in dire straits this morning. Ratification vote canceled. Roadshows canceled. Emergency meetings underway. Stand by for further ATIS message !


AVCANADA • View topic - ACPA Implodes ! (http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=73141)

[meaw]

Regarding the ****ty TA that you guys see as a continuous decline of working conditions....You are WRONG!

I see the opposite FINALY!

-the whole pilot group at AC standing together as ONE, pis..d off like I have never seen and putting the collective foot down saying: Enough errosion of our condition, enough division, enough cr@p, enough selling our young and our unborn!

Over 1300 names on the petition to remove the MEC chair and a TA that won't even get to be voted on because thousands of AC pilots showed up at the road shows and yelled like mad men....Maybe I'm wrong but it's a thing of beauty.


After 12 years here I have never seen the group so united and enraged and we all believe this to be a turning point at AC.

They have poked the sleeping dragon....

It's going to be interesting and probably an evn better option to come work here a couple of years down the road.

[clunckdriver]

ElDuderino, If you want to get a better feel as to whats going on in the ME,Google Al Jazeera and click on the English broadcasts, it may be not totally free of bias but the fact that they get their signals jammed on a regular basis by many states in the ME will tell you, that unlike much media these days, they are reporting more in depth stuff than our TV, {unless of course you think that hockey is the most important conflict going on at the moment.} To those whistling in the dark, again I say lets have our ME discussion five years from now, we will then see with the gift of 20/20 hindsight who got it right. Again, good luck to you whatever your choice may be!