Australian Airline wages compilation

[Berealgetreal]

Hard to know knobby, it’s all cash work for the tradies.

[Gate_15L]

True but doesn't he realise ever since 2011, when this thread started, it has been the actual pilots with the jobs doing the vetting :ugh: ... that's the whole idea of this exchange. Simples :rolleyes:

Yeah, most people want $h!t just handed to them on a plate these days without wanting to help out. Explains a bit why PPrune is so much more cr@p these days. Demanding stuff from an anonymous poster who is trying help out... doesn’t reflect well on said complaining poster.. :rolleyes:

Anyways......


VAI NZ
Captain Level 1 $176,776

Captain Level 2 $185,772

Captain Level 3 $194,769

First Officer Level 1 $103,950

First Officer Level 2 $112,217

First Officer Level 3 $120,606

[Chocks Away]

Noted and adjusted Keg & Gate15:ok:

[Keg]

Can probably delete the 767 rates Chocks. :( :sad:

[Chadzat]

Thanks for reviving this thread Chocks Away. It took me about a day of trawling through the FWA website back in 2011 to get a majority of those numbers. The rest were contributed by other posters.

My only suggestion would be to just delete the numbers (not the employer/aircraft list) that are clearly wrong or outdated. Then posters here can maybe add to the blank spaces if they know those rates first hand. A lot of agreements on FWA have the pay scales blacked out these days so it would be quite hard to collate the info from FWA alone.

I find it interesting how far some rates have come, while others have hardly moved in 7 years.

[Jimnhorace]

The Virgin Australia widebody EBA was recently voted up.

New pay for A330/B777 as follows:

Capt (+9.5% super)
July 17 $272,986 ($298,919)
July 18 $283,868 ($310,835)
July 19 $291,674 ($319,383)

FO (65% of Capt)
July 17 $177,440 ($194,287)
July 18 $184,513 ($202,042)
July 19 $198,588 ($207,598)

SO (53% of FO)
July 17 $94,043 ($102,977)
July 18 $97,792 ($107,082)
July 19 $100,481 ($110,027)

OT trigger at 75.25 hours per 28 day roster (at Capt $321/330/339hr, FO $209/215/221hr, SO $111/114/117 hr). Minimum credit guarantee of 5 hours for work on any day which includes paxing when in association with a flight duty pairing. Plus some other technicalities and adjustments.

Narrow body EBA voting opens later this week.

[Chocks Away]

Adjusted thanks Jim.
Chadzat - no probs. I'll leave the old figures up as a history until amended.
Bloggs - "Chadzat would be rolling his eyes."... obviously not.

[mostlytossas]

You blokes have got no idea about the real world have you?
Plumbers on $200k/yr etc???
What a load of bollocks!
Tradies working for wages like you lot.....average between $30 to $40/hour.
Saturday work time and a half for first 2 or 3 hours depending on which award they on and double time after that. Sunday is double time.
Only tradies (some) who own a business employing a few guys earn the amounts your stating. They have to provide plant and vehicles,insurance, etc for all their employees and take the risk of going broke.
How many airline pilots have to do that? nil I suggest.
You have really lost all reality in your own little pampered world.

[Rabbitwear]

Tradies earn the equivalent of $200K post tax by avoiding tax !
Try getting cash jobs as a pilot !

[Dash8capt]

Tossa, which plumber spent $110k on their ticket?

[romeocharlie]

You blokes have got no idea about the real world have you?
Plumbers on $200k/yr etc???
What a load of bollocks!
Tradies working for wages like you lot.....average between $30 to $40/hour.
Saturday work time and a half for first 2 or 3 hours depending on which award they on and double time after that. Sunday is double time.
Only tradies (some) who own a business employing a few guys earn the amounts your stating. They have to provide plant and vehicles,insurance, etc for all their employees and take the risk of going broke.
How many airline pilots have to do that? nil I suggest.
You have really lost all reality in your own little pampered world.

Spot of fishing on a Monday morning huh? :}:rolleyes::ugh:

[Berealgetreal]

You have really lost all reality in your own little pampered world.

I don't think you are aware of some of the duty times and back of the clock work today's pilots are doing. I've worked a trade, nothing compares to the big days we do flying. Not even close.

[Jimnhorace]

Virgin Australia narrow body EBA just voted up.

New base rates for B737: (super not included)

Capt.
July 2017 $227,904
July 2018 $233,023
July 2019 $239,440

FO Level 1 / 2 / 3
July 2017 $125,347/$136,742/$148,138
July 2018 $128,167/$139,819/$151,471
July 2019 $131,692/$143,664/$155,637

OT trigger at 68.25 hrs per 28 day RP.

[Chocks Away]

Adjusted, thanks JnH.

[Fujiroll76]

For what it’s worth. QantasLink FO’s are earning in excess of $100k with skippers $150k plus - add training or checking to your name - name your price.

[Check_Thrust]

For what it’s worth. QantasLink FO’s are earning in excess of $100k with skippers $150k plus - add training or checking to your name - name your price.

The FOs must be busy at Eastern and Sunstate as that would require about 200 hours duty a month for an 8th year FO to achieve that figure (not saying that it isn't happening though). Or are you referring to the Network pilots?

[jetlikespeeds]

- add training or checking to your name - name your price.

And a substantial cost to your career if you want to move up within the group because you are now ‘too valuable’ to the company to be allowed to transfer to Mainline, Jetstar etc. Have seen many fine and upstanding colleagues being held back for substantial periods of time whilst watching pilots with multiple handling incidents, pilots with multi million dollar repair bill accidents, staff travel misdemeanours and guys with less than a year’s service get transfers.

[Fonz121]

For what it’s worth. QantasLink FO’s are earning in excess of $100k

Nope, not unless they're working a lot of days off.

[Di_Vosh]

For what it’s worth. QantasLink FO’s are earning in excess of $100k with skippers $150k plus - add training or checking to your name - name your price.

Agree on the others who're questioning this.

To earn that money as an FO you're doing at least 8 overnights per roster, and/or working days off, and on the Q400. I can't imagine an FO on the classic getting over $100k unless they're also a ground trainer or a sim trainer. (Not sure if we have any FO sim trainers atm.)

Captains can get $150k plus without working days off, but (again) you're doing at least 8 overnights per roster.

Check and Trainers get more, for sure, but not necessarily relevant to a thread such as this.

DIVOSH!

[krismiler]

What’s the OT hourly rate for Virgin, any incentive for working a day OFF ?

[logansi]

What’s the OT hourly rate for Virgin, any incentive for working a day OFF ?

While someone is at it - at least at the moment what the average hours per roster at VA? Or simply under the new EBA what could a 737 FO expect to take home now that they are taking direct entry F/Os?

[Fujiroll76]

The FOs must be busy at Eastern and Sunstate as that would require about 200 hours duty a month for an 8th year FO to achieve that figure (not saying that it isn't happening though). Or are you referring to the Network pilots?

Not necessarily, a typical 120hr month with 6 overnights per roster would see 100K. Most if not all being on Q400 bypass pay atm.

*figuers based on being a 4th year FO on the 65% rule.

[Fujiroll76]

And a substantial cost to your career if you want to move up within the group because you are now ‘too valuable’ to the company to be allowed to transfer to Mainline, Jetstar etc. Have seen many fine and upstanding colleagues being held back for substantial periods of time whilst watching pilots with multiple handling incidents, pilots with multi million dollar repair bill accidents, staff travel misdemeanours and guys with less than a year’s service get transfers.

It’s unfortunate but I 100% agree. Aviation at its best

[Check_Thrust]

Not necessarily, a typical 120hr month with 6 overnights per roster would see 100K. Most if not all being on Q400 bypass pay atm.

*figuers based on being a 4th year FO on the 65% rule.

From the Eastern EBA:

Base Pay: 78,733
DHA: 9,360 (120 x 6.50 x 12)
Overnight Allowances: 11,315 (157.15 x 6 x 12), this assumes the pilot qualifies for all meal allowances for each overnight trip.

Total: $99,408 + other allowances.

Based on the above I stand corrected.

I am probably in the minority with the following opinion but I wouldn't really include overnight allowances as part of the annual wage as I see it as an allowance to cover the additional expense of having to "dine out" versus feeding oneself at home.

Regarding FOs on by-pass pay, well yes they would be on more than $100k, but they aren't really on the FO pay scale are they? It's not like a new hire would be immediately accessing that would they?

[Going Nowhere]

Those figures would account for someone taking 4 weeks leave per year as there are 13 x 28 day roster periods each year.

There are certainly Q400 FO’s in BNE that are doing $100k per year.

[Check_Thrust]

Those figures would account for someone taking 4 weeks leave per year as there are 13 x 28 day roster periods each year.

There are certainly Q400 FO’s in BNE that are doing $100k per year.

Fair enough, didn't think of the 28 day roster period in my calculations. I will retract my comment about it not accounting for leave.

[donkey767]

If the $100k figure is accurate, then that is great coin to be on a Dash 8. To put things in perspective, a 1st year Dash 8 coast watch FO in DRW or BME will quite comfortably make $85-$100k with minimal overtime/over nights.

[Going Nowhere]

Regarding the overnight allowances, it’s possible to pocket the entire amount on a min rest overnight as the company will provide all meals during the duty periods. Multi day trips are different as you will usually need to eat somewhere at least once during the trip.

You can still pocket at least 75% of the allowances though if you wanted to.

[Fujiroll76]

From the Eastern EBA:

Base Pay: 78,733
DHA: 9,360 (120 x 6.50 x 12)
Overnight Allowances: 11,315 (157.15 x 6 x 12), this assumes the pilot qualifies for all meal allowances for each overnight trip.

Total: $99,408 + other allowances.

Based on the above I stand corrected.

I am probably in the minority with the following opinion but I wouldn't really include overnight allowances as part of the annual wage as I see it as an allowance to cover the additional expense of having to "dine out" versus feeding oneself at home.

Regarding FOs on by-pass pay, well yes they would be on more than $100k, but they aren't really on the FO pay scale are they? It's not like a new hire would be immediately accessing that would they?


You would be surprised. FO’s on the classic have been awarded Q400 spots before being CTL. It’s the way the company wants to run atm with direct entry 400 spots being more favourable than sending classic pilots overseas to convert and causing another training movement..this will change however.

Anyhow, back to the original thread.

[Chocks Away]

Please stop saying DHC8-300's are "Classics".
DHC8-100's can loosely be termed as such but generally it has been a term used for B737's & 747's etc.
Technically it's for airframes constructed after September 1945, up to and including December 31, 1955. There after are termed "contemporary" etc etc.
I know what you're trying to say but the 300's still have partial glass displays and you make me feel older when you say it :{

[jetlikespeeds]

Please stop saying DHC8-300's are "Classics".
DHC8-100's can loosely be termed as such but generally it has been a term used for B737's & 747's etc.
Technically it's for airframes constructed after September 1945, up to and including December 31, 1955. There after are termed "contemporary" etc etc.
I know what you're trying to say but the 300's still have partial glass displays and you make me feel older when you say it :{

I prefer classic as ‘club contemporary’ just sounds, well, gay.

Quite insane how pilots are still on bypass pay. It really grinds my gears when we bust our arses to save fuel only to have those savings poured into things like bypass pay because of poor resource planning.

[peterc005]

What’s a plumber on these days about $200k plus.
A decent builder $400k plus.
Head of Qantas domestic $8,800,000
CEO $25,000,000

It's a myth trades people earn this kind of money.

I know a few plumbers from the footy club and they make about 1/3 of what you've quoted. Know a few builders too and I'm sure they'd have a good laugh at the suggestion of earning $400k.

[Break Right]

It's a myth trades people earn this kind of money.

I know a few plumbers from the footy club and they make about 1/3 of what you've quoted. Know a few builders too and I'm sure they'd have a good laugh at the suggestion of earning $400k.

But ask how much Tax they’re paying. Not much!! While most Pilots are paying 47c in the $1. :ugh::ugh::{:{

[AerocatS2A]

But ask how much Tax they’re paying. Not much!! While most Pilots are paying 47c in the $1. :ugh::ugh::{:{

Thats the marginal rate.

IF the pilot earns more than 180K THEN they pay 47c per dollar over and above 180k.

[V-Jet]

That's something Australian banks fail to understand.

I you earn a wage from a company you are able to borrow money up to 80% (more or less) the value of your income.

If you have your own business, then they generally allow half your income but they double the interest rate - in effect you are only allowed 25% of your income in loan repayments. This is insane. But even worse - if you earn say $100kpa from an airline (which I do not believe is without risk) you pay (in Oz) around 30% tax. Roughly. Then you pay rent, computers, cars etc. If you earn $100kpa from your own business, first of all I would suggest you are an idiot, but IF you are that successful that you can't avoid earning $100kpa, that is after your house/car/travel expenses (holidays) and tools are paid for.

You are persecuted for being 'smart' in Australia (and the US) and helped by banks who 'want' that salary.

Frankly, I see working for anyone as inherently risky. I work for someone else, I know I'm going to be sacked before them. If I work for myself I won't be sacked. This is the fundamental difference I have with the finance and governance industry in Australia. It's killing the economy and so few realise how. If you own your own business you are screwed and are excluded from access to easy credit.

Just putting it out there - personally, working for a self enriching, cost cutting tool with zero inspiring attributes (Qf's Joyce) is something that almost has me dry reaching every time I think about it, but I can understand why people put up with the garbage emanating from the QCCC injecting room cubicles and take the salary. If you are depressed enough in your outlook to accept that as your 'lot' may I suggest you set about inoculating yourself against psychotic morons as quickly as you can. Get the job, then spend every dollar you can gaining an asset base to enable you to say 'FU' - cleverly done it should take 10 years, 15 at the outside.

[framer]

set about inoculating yourself against psychotic morons as quickly as you can. Get the job, then spend every dollar you can gaining an asset base to enable you to say 'FU' - cleverly done it should take 10 years, 15 at the outside.
Many of the Captains I interact socially with are doing exactly that. Thinking long and hard about how they are spending their money, making sure it’s going to work for them rather than buying more toys, and working towards an FU status. These are guys who just a few short years ago enjoyed their work, were mildly proud of their company, and envisioned remaining in the game until retirement.

[Mud Skipper]

Many of the Captains I interact socially with are doing exactly that. Thinking long and hard about how they are spending their money, making sure it’s going to work for them rather than buying more toys, and working towards an FU status.

I haven't posted for a while but I'd like to third that comment, however it's not just Captains, I see F/O's thinking the same way and S/O's who don't take promotion as they too are just counting the dollars to get out.

Most pilots are just so over the combative nature of Qantas industrial philosophy.
We are industrially fatigued. How they hell HR thought of threatening the SH pilots EBA with the 787 slots is truly pathetic.
People in HR have destroyed engagement as they justify their sad, angry, latte slurping existence.

Relations/Engagement, with the pilot body, can not improve whilst we spend all our time feeling under constant attack from one EBA into the next.

Lets go for a 100% NO vote this year!

[Badengo]

Please stop saying DHC8-300's are "Classics".
DHC8-100's can loosely be termed as such but generally it has been a term used for B737's & 747's etc.
Technically it's for airframes constructed after September 1945, up to and including December 31, 1955. There after are termed "contemporary" etc etc.
I know what you're trying to say but the 300's still have partial glass displays and you make me feel older when you say it :{


Lol in the maintenance world the term Classic is used to describe the -1, 2, and 300 series Dash8. It was actually started by the OEM.

[Veruka Salt]

At my mob, we now refer to the A330 as 'the classic' :}

[neville_nobody]

It's a myth trades people earn this kind of money.

I know a few plumbers from the footy club and they make about 1/3 of what you've quoted. Know a few builders too and I'm sure they'd have a good laugh at the suggestion of earning $400k.

Personally I'm not so sure. Have you looked at the cars they drive and the houses they live in? Many are on one household income too:hmm:

My educated guess is take whatever number a good tradie tells you he makes then double it. Which after tax is a hellva lot more than a pilot makes with alot less of the heartache but alot more hard physical work.

[Keg]

Personally I'm not so sure. Have you looked at the cars they drive and the houses they live in? Many are on one household income too:hmm:


Not according to the ATO where the spouse of a tradie is invariably paid a handsome amount to be the 'book keeper', or 'director', or 'accountant', or 'office manager', etc. I'd LOVE to be able to income split like a tradie does... but then I'd actually have to get a real job and not this one that pays pretty well even if I can't income split! :ok: :}

[peterc005]

If you have a look here the average plumber gets $60k to $80k, which is what I expected:

https://www.livingin-australia.com/plumber-salary-australia/

The plumbers I know are doing ok, but I see no signs of wealth. No new BMWs or flash houses.

I know crane drivers working on CBD sites making $150k a year, but they work 60 hours a week making good money in a boom with no job security.

Let's consider the maths for a tradesman:
work 250 days a year
work 8 hours a day (2,000 hours a year)
would need $200 an hour to make $400,000 a year (assumes no expenses and self-employed)

I can't, and haven't seen, a tradie earning $400k a year.

[romeocharlie]

I can't, and haven't seen, a tradie earning $400k a year.

Sure you have. Just turn on channel 9 and you'll see Scotty Cam's smiling face kicking around his $5 million Vaucluse home.

Can we get back to discussing pilot, not tradie salaries now?

[Berealgetreal]

Builders make about $100 an hour. Not sure if they pay tax or not. I'd imagine most trades pay tax on some jobs and not on others. Trades are not the only areas where people evade tax. What about "cash only" down at the food court?

These days you can get a dongle that does bluetooth to your iPhone/Android and this allows you to tap your credit card on the phone. I've used this, it works better than eftpos. (this is what credit card skimmers use on the subway in europe btw).

The issue isn't the trade, the shop or the person. The issue is the Australian Government and it's inability to do what needs to be done. It's all about getting re-elected, our system isn't working.

This is how it should run:

1. ALL businesses must use either an eftpos machine or smartphone dongle equivalent.
2. Cash phased out.

The result is that everyone is forced to electronically record every transaction and crime decreases.

The reality is that with an ageing population the current slice of taxpayers can no longer sustain the burden. The net needs to be widened so it includes everyone the same way it does the wage earner.

[mostlytossas]

Builders make $100 per hr! Incorrect. They charge you $100 per hr,and out of that they pay wages to employee say $34,vehicle expenses,office expenses,insurances, superannuation,sick leave,holiday leave, plant and equiptment maintenance. phone expenses.bank fees, interest on loans for materials/plant etc,licence fees,rent. The business owner would be lucky to make $20/hr/ employee. Unlike you head in the sand lot that just take your pay each week and moan how hard you have it.

[Berealgetreal]

Builders make $100 per hr! Incorrect. They charge you $100 per hr,and out of that they pay wages to employee say $34,vehicle expenses,office expenses,insurances, superannuation,sick leave,holiday leave, plant and equiptment maintenance. phone expenses.bank fees, interest on loans for materials/plant etc,licence fees,rent. The business owner would be lucky to make $20/hr/ employee. Unlike you head in the sand lot that just take your pay each week and moan how hard you have it.

I should have been more specific. Wasn't sure if this was take home or not. My point was that it wasn't that much.

You're making sweeping statements about people having heads in the sand and complaining. I was actually pointing out that "cash" work wasn't only trades.

I've worked a trade for a few years to save the money to learn to fly whilst doing night school. I then put myself through uni. After that I went bush for years building up hours. Today I sit exactly where I aimed to be. There are some tough days when I complain about it but thats pretty normal. I wouldn't swap with anyone.

Do I earn what I should? Probably not. Am I free to leave? Absolutely.

There are a few however, that really should leave as they don't enjoy it.

[mostlytossas]

Then my apologies. However reading your post one could be excused for thinking you not only believe tradies to be ripping people off but avoiding tax too.
The above items are all legit deductions before tax as they are incurred running the business trying to make a profit so can pay tax. Don't start me on unbillable hours either. Such as quoting jobs,building applications prior to starting,ordering materials,certificate of compliance on completion, compiling info such as reciepts for tax (GST) etc . And yes I used to do that too but no more. Guess why?

[vortex2]

Just confirming this is an aviation forum about 'Australian Airline Wages Compilation'??

[Berealgetreal]

Don't start me on unbillable hours either. Such as quoting jobs,building applications prior to starting,ordering materials,certificate of compliance on completion, compiling info such as reciepts for tax (GST) etc . And yes I used to do that too but no more. Guess why?

Did you leave and fly for a living now? I hope so.

If you did you would know about the time professional pilots put in at the desk at home either keeping up with procedure changes studying for sim, ep's etc. The list goes on and on. I don't think we can go two days without a company notice coming out in addition to the never ending notam changes. Add to the the incessant manual changes, the eyes glaze over at these work creation schemes. No wonder nobody turns up to roadshows. Having said that, its part of the job and nobody is holding a gun to our head so smile and nod gratefully.

Just confirming this is an aviation forum about 'Australian Airline Wages Compilation'??

It is vortex, I'm changing my nickname to "thread drifter". Been on pprune for over 20 years (had a different name) so I get bored and get chatting. Sorry.

[mostlytossas]

Yes Bereal well aware of the endless paperwork. Not confined to aviation either by the way. The one difference however is that airline pilots nearly always have lay days/on standby days call it what you will,whereby they get paid to stay at home in readiness to come in should someone call in sick etc. This is when you should do your paperwork as your being paid by your employer and not on your own time. Just saying that's all that it is not a bad deal. I am sorry for the tread drift also I just get so annoyed went I hear of stupid claims how tradies are so well paid in comparison to pilots (read airline not GA ).
I will now cease to comment further due drift. Happy flying.

[Berealgetreal]

In my airline standby equals 99% call in. Paperwork is done during the multiple airport appreciation events that take place every duty to get you up to 12 or more hours duty.

[JPJP]

If you did you would know about the time professional pilots put in at the desk at home either keeping up with procedure changes studying for sim, ep's etc. The list goes on and on. I don't think we can go two days without a company notice coming out in addition to the never ending notam changes. Add to the the incessant manual changes, the eyes glaze over at these work creation schemes

Meh. Manual changes, Notices, Notams, Jepps updates etc. - You just hit the ‘synch’ button on the company IPad. Reading that stuff when you’re not on the clock is grounds for shouting the bar at some companies :p

[Swanrider]

Time for a considered look at these constantly updated figures.
The constant maneuvering by managements (457 Visa + Reseau Aviations nouveau A320's etc) with the crew shortage globally makes for interesting calculations.

QANTAS
767 Captain - $227,760
737 F/O - $114,000
Longhaul Min Guarantee is 160 hours and 6 1/2 rosters per year. Add 27.5 hours for mandatory training. 1067.5 hours.
Effective 1 Jul 18
Second Officer
A380.............................. B744.............................. A330
1. 91.58/ $97.6K..............1. 91.58/ $97.6K.............. 1. 91.58/ $97.6K.
2a. 98.01/ $104.6K...........2a. 98.01/ $104.6K........... 2a. 98.01/ $104.6K
2b. 126.22/ $134.7K.........2b. 120.21/ $128.3K.......... 2b. 114.51/ 122.2K
3. 132.89/ $141.9K...........3. 126.56/ $135.1K........... 3. 120.47/ $128.6K
Hourly rates go up 2-3% each year until year 12.
Individual fleet divisors may change. A330 currently 160. A380 currently 180.
Avg O/T per BP
50*...................................... 29.................................3
First Officer.
Using Year 12 rate only as that’s what they’re all on.
Using 160 min guarantee. Most divisors between 175- 185
A380.......................... B744.......................... A330.
215.18/ $229.7K.......... 204.93/ $218.8K......... 195.15/ $208.3K
Average O/T
46*.............................. 23.............................. 3.
Captain
Divisor and notes as per F/O
A380........................... B744............................ A330
326.07/ $348.1K........... 310.55/ $331.5K............ 295.76/ $315.7K
Average o/t
45*............................... 25.................................3.
* Note that the 380 o/t numbers will decrease dramatically when the 380 reverts to one LHR flight via SIN. Likely to be closer to 30.

Virgin Australia
VAI:
New pay for A330/B777 as follows:
Capt (+9.5% super)
July 17 $272,986 ($298,919)
July 18 $283,868 ($310,835)
July 19 $291,674 ($319,383)
FO (65% of Capt)
July 17 $177,440 ($194,287)
July 18 $184,513 ($202,042)
July 19 $198,588 ($207,598)
SO (53% of FO)
July 17 $94,043 ($102,977)
July 18 $97,792 ($107,082)
July 19 $100,481 ($110,027)
OT trigger at 75.25 hours per 28 day roster (at Capt $321/330/339hr, FO $209/215/221hr, SO $111/114/117 hr). Minimum credit guarantee of 5 hours for work on any day which includes paxing when in association with a flight duty pairing. Plus some other technicalities and adjustments.
New base rates for B737: (super not included)
Capt.
July 2017 $227,904
July 2018 $233,023
July 2019 $239,440
FO Level 1 / 2 / 3
July 2017 $125,347/$136,742/$148,138
July 2018 $128,167/$139,819/$151,471
July 2019 $131,692/$143,664/$155,637
OT trigger at 68.25 hrs per 28 day RP.


TIGER/JETSTAR A320 RATES 2014
TIGER CAPTAIN
Base $171,000 + EFA $140 + Retention $10,000
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $181,000
682hrs $195,700
787hrs $210,000
900hrs $226,220

JETSTAR CAPTAIN
Base $163,418 + EFA $207.65 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $163,418
682hrs $163,418
787hrs $163,418
900hrs $186,882

TIGER FO Level 3
Base $114,570 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $121,237
682hrs $128,587
787hrs $135,937
900hrs $143,847

JETSTAR FO Level 3
Base $106,222 + EFA $134,97 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $106,222
682hrs $106,222
787hrs $106,222
900hrs $121,473

TIGER FO Level 2
Base $109,440 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $116,107
682hrs $123,457
787hrs $130,807
900hrs $138,717

JETSTAR FO Level 2
Base $98,051 + EFA $124.59 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $98,051
682hrs $98,051
787hrs $98,051
900hrs $112,129

TIGER FO Level 1
Base $94,050 + EFA $70 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $94,050
682hrs $101,400
787hrs $108,750
900hrs $116,660

JETSTAR FO Level 1
Base $89,880 + EFA $114.21 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $89,880
682hrs $89,880
787hrs $89,880
900hrs $102,785

Strategic
A320 F/O - $113,000

Cobham
B717 Captain - $158,500*
B717 F/O - $85,250 up to $100,750 after year 5
BAe 146 Captain - $158,000*
BAe 146 F/O - $85,250 up to $100,750 after year 5
DHC-8 Captain - $78,255
DHC-8 F/O - $46,940
Coastwatch DHC-8 Captain ~ 130,000
Coastwatch DHC-8 F/O ~ 78,000

Alliance
F100 Captain - $122,675
F100 F/O - $82,819
F50 Captain ?
F50 F/O ?

Skywest/VARA
A320 Captain - $165,000
A320 F/O - $107,250
F100 Captain - $128,848
F100 F/O - $83,751
F50 Captain - $97,244
F50 F/O - $63,209

Qantaslink
Q400 Captain - $92,863
Q400 F/O - $60,361
Q300/Q200 Captain - $86,789
Q300/Q200 F/O - $56,466

RrrrrrrrrExxyyyyyy
Base rates years 1-10 as of July 1 2016
F/O 54,000 - 66,000
Capt 89,000 - 109,000
+2.5% per year until 2018

"The new Aero-Duck"
BAe32 Captain - $64,862
BAe32 F/O - $46,559

RFDS
QLD - B200, PC12, C208 Line pilot - Tier 1 $93784 Tier 2 $104817

Skippers
DHC-8 Captain -$89,168
DHC-8 F/O - $55,000*
E120 Captain - $88,816
E120 F/O - $55,000*
SA227 Captain - $70,855
SA227 F/O - $42,537

Brindabella (R.I.P.)
J41 Captain - $69,000
J41 F/O - $46,000
Metro Captain - $57,000
Metro F/O - $38,000

Express Freighters Australia
B737 Captain - $120,000
B737 F/O - $75,000
B767 Captain - $170,000
B767 F/O - $110,000

Pionair

Airnorth
E170 Captain - 109,000 ?
E170 F/O - 94,200
E120 Captain - ?
E120 F/O - ?
SA227 Captain - ?
SA227 F/O - ?

Skytrans
DHC-8 Captain - ?
DHC-8 F/O - ?

Network
F100 Captain - $140,000
F100 F/O - $85,000
E120 Captain - $85,000 (gone)
E120 F/O - $55,000 (gone)

Sharp Aviation
Metro Cpt -?
metro FO - ?

Hardy's
Metro Captain - $75,000
Metro F/O - $52,000
C441 Captain - $70,000

Careflight
$122,000 + +

JETGO
ERJ135 Captain $122,000 plus allowances plus 10% Super
FO $75,000 plus same
Endorsement Salary sacrificed at around $35K over two years.

VANZ (previously Pac Blue)
Captain Level 1 $176,776
Captain Level 2 $185,772
Captain Level 3 $194,765
First Officer Level 1 $103,950
First Officer Level 2 $112,217
First Officer Level 3 $120,606

Air EnZid (NZD)
B737-300
CA $142,800
FO $96,200
A320
CA $169,800
FO $110,100
B767
CA $185,800
FO $120,400
SO $96,200
B787
CA $203,100
FO $131,600
SO $96,200
B77-200ER
CA $219,200
FO $142,100
B777-300ER
CA $236,800
FO $153,500
SO $96,200
B747
CA $240,700
FO $156,000
SO $96,200

JitConnict (NZD)
B737
CA $160,600
FO $ 91,900

Jitstar NZ (NZD)
A320
CA $170,000
FO $ 93,000

"Air No Got" (thanks NCD)
Salary and tax rates are in PGK (KINA) but paid in $AUD at the exchange rate of the day. All these figures are in $AUD having been converted at an indicative exchange rate of .40c
SALARY
DH8 Captain $110,295 First Officer $47,063
400 Captain $122,088 First Officer $74,949
F100 Captain $143,958 First Officer $99,955
737 Captain $163,544 First Officer $107,746
767 Captain $174,135 First Officer $127,072
SUPERANNUATION
Nil
TAX
PNG Kina Tax figure converted to $AUD at .40c.
Tax on $28,000 is $8,564 then 40% on every dollar over $28,000 up to $99,999.
Tax on $100, 000 is $37,364 and the 42% on every dollar over $100,00.
Eg: 737 Captain will GROSS $163, 544, pay TAX of $64, 052 and NET $99,492 ($AUD8,291 / $USD6,316 per mth) without any super paid by the Company.
To put the salary into perspective: Using the figures quoted at Post 213 and the online ATO tax calculator, the ERJ 135 Captain will net $AUD 88,913 and receive $12,000 in super, a total package to $100,913 ($1,421 pa more than the PX B737 Captain).

[SHVC]

Now that Tiger have struck a new deal, in terms of base salary Jetstar pilots would be the lowest paid 320 drivers in OZ now. cant wait to watch their negotiations nest yr.

[VH-ABC]

Dunno, Skywest (VARA) looks pretty low.

[Roj approved]

Those numbers for Jetstar are very old, try adding 23% to those figures

At 1 July 2018:

A320
Capt $200 813

L3 F/O $130 529
L2 F/O $120 488
L1 F/O $110 447

B787
Capt $228 927

L3 F/O $148 803 (no one is less than L3 on the 787 due to time in company to get a WB slot)

S/O $ 82 414

But we get paid for 900hrs a year, 75 per month, so you can’t make less than that. (Unless you are Flexi line 65%)

O/T is paid at annual salary/787 per hour. Most A320 pilots would get roster 10-15 hours of O/T per month.

A320 pilots get rostered 120hours + of duty per month

High line allowance per duty hour:

A320
Capt $10.85 = $1200/month
L3 F/O $7.05
L2 F/O $6.51
L1 F/O $5.97

787 only do about 90 hours of Duty

787
Capt $12.38 = $900
F/O $ 8.05
S/O $ 4.47

A320 Pilots also get DTA per Duty hour of $5.05, so approx $600/month in DTA

So if you work 10 ½ months a year as an A320 Capt on base pay plus the 2 allowances you’d get close to $220 000

Any O/T and working on a day off will be gravy 💰

[Berealgetreal]

Lot of those figures are old.

[SHVC]

Jetstar Captain 1st July 2018 $200,813 new Tiger agreement Captain $209,000/ year 4 $225,070

Jetstar FO L3 1st July 2018 $130,529 new Tiger agreement FO L3 $136, 879/ year 4 $147,404

JQ now get less than Tiger.

[Chocks Away]

Updated.
P.S. There's nothing stopping any of you updating the list by cutting & pasting.
If you see it's wrong/old, change it instead of moaning.
Thanks to those contributing, as this is seen far & wide!

QANTAS
767 Captain - $227,760
737 F/O - $114,000
Longhaul Min Guarantee is 160 hours and 6 1/2 rosters per year. Add 27.5 hours for mandatory training. 1067.5 hours.
Effective 1 Jul 18
Second Officer
A380.............................. B744.............................. A330
1. 91.58/ $97.6K..............1. 91.58/ $97.6K.............. 1. 91.58/ $97.6K.
2a. 98.01/ $104.6K...........2a. 98.01/ $104.6K........... 2a. 98.01/ $104.6K
2b. 126.22/ $134.7K.........2b. 120.21/ $128.3K.......... 2b. 114.51/ 122.2K
3. 132.89/ $141.9K...........3. 126.56/ $135.1K........... 3. 120.47/ $128.6K
Hourly rates go up 2-3% each year until year 12.
Individual fleet divisors may change. A330 currently 160. A380 currently 180.
Avg O/T per BP
50*...................................... 29.................................3
First Officer.
Using Year 12 rate only as that’s what they’re all on.
Using 160 min guarantee. Most divisors between 175- 185
A380.......................... B744.......................... A330.
215.18/ $229.7K.......... 204.93/ $218.8K......... 195.15/ $208.3K
Average O/T
46*.............................. 23.............................. 3.
Captain
Divisor and notes as per F/O
A380........................... B744............................ A330
326.07/ $348.1K........... 310.55/ $331.5K............ 295.76/ $315.7K
Average o/t
45*............................... 25.................................3.
* Note that the 380 o/t numbers will decrease dramatically when the 380 reverts to one LHR flight via SIN. Likely to be closer to 30.

Virgin Australia
VAI:
New pay for A330/B777 as follows:
Capt (+9.5% super)
July 17 $272,986 ($298,919)
July 18 $283,868 ($310,835)
July 19 $291,674 ($319,383)
FO (65% of Capt)
July 17 $177,440 ($194,287)
July 18 $184,513 ($202,042)
July 19 $198,588 ($207,598)
SO (53% of FO)
July 17 $94,043 ($102,977)
July 18 $97,792 ($107,082)
July 19 $100,481 ($110,027)
OT trigger at 75.25 hours per 28 day roster (at Capt $321/330/339hr, FO $209/215/221hr, SO $111/114/117 hr). Minimum credit guarantee of 5 hours for work on any day which includes paxing when in association with a flight duty pairing. Plus some other technicalities and adjustments.
New base rates for B737: (super not included)
Capt.
July 2017 $227,904
July 2018 $233,023
July 2019 $239,440
FO Level 1 / 2 / 3
July 2017 $125,347/$136,742/$148,138
July 2018 $128,167/$139,819/$151,471
July 2019 $131,692/$143,664/$155,637
OT trigger at 68.25 hrs per 28 day RP.

Pornstar - At 1 July 2018:
A320
Capt $200 813
L3 F/O $130 529
L2 F/O $120 488
L1 F/O $110 447
B787
Capt $228 927
L3 F/O $148 803 (no one is less than L3 on the 787 due to time in company to get a WB slot)
S/O $ 82 414
But we get paid for 900hrs a year, 75 per month, so you can’t make less than that. (Unless you are Flexi line 65%)
O/T is paid at annual salary/787 per hour. Most A320 pilots would get roster 10-15 hours of O/T per month.
A320 pilots get rostered 120hours + of duty per month
High line allowance per duty hour:
A320
Capt $10.85 = $1200/month
L3 F/O $7.05
L2 F/O $6.51
L1 F/O $5.97
787 only do about 90 hours of Duty

TIGER CAPTAIN
Captain $209,000/ year 4 $225,070
Base $171,000 + EFA $140 + Retention $10,000
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $181,000
682hrs $195,700
787hrs $210,000
900hrs $226,220
TIGER FO Level 3
FO L3 $136, 879/ year 4 $147,404
Base $114,570 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $121,237
682hrs $128,587
787hrs $135,937
900hrs $143,847
TIGER FO Level 2
Base $109,440 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $116,107
682hrs $123,457
787hrs $130,807
900hrs $138,717
TIGER FO Level 1
Base $94,050 + EFA $70 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $94,050
682hrs $101,400
787hrs $108,750
900hrs $116,660

Strategic
A320 F/O - $113,000

Cobham
B717 Captain - $158,500*
B717 F/O - $85,250 up to $100,750 after year 5
BAe 146 Captain - $158,000*
BAe 146 F/O - $85,250 up to $100,750 after year 5
DHC-8 Captain - $78,255
DHC-8 F/O - $46,940
Coastwatch DHC-8 Captain ~ 130,000
Coastwatch DHC-8 F/O ~ 78,000

Alliance
F100 Captain - $122,675
F100 F/O - $82,819
F50 Captain ?
F50 F/O ?

Skywest/VARA
A320 Captain - $165,000
A320 F/O - $107,250
F100 Captain - $128,848
F100 F/O - $83,751
F50 Captain - $97,244
F50 F/O - $63,209

Qantaslink
Q400 Captain - $92,863
Q400 F/O - $60,361
Q300/Q200 Captain - $86,789
Q300/Q200 F/O - $56,466

RrrrrrrrrExxyyyyyy
Base rates years 1-10 as of July 1 2016
F/O 54,000 - 66,000
Capt 89,000 - 109,000
+2.5% per year until 2018

"The new Aero-Duck"
BAe32 Captain - $64,862
BAe32 F/O - $46,559

RFDS
QLD - B200, PC12, C208 Line pilot - Tier 1 $93784 Tier 2 $104817

Skippers
DHC-8 Captain -$89,168
DHC-8 F/O - $55,000*
E120 Captain - $88,816
E120 F/O - $55,000*
SA227 Captain - $70,855
SA227 F/O - $42,537

Brindabella (R.I.P.)
J41 Captain - $69,000
J41 F/O - $46,000
Metro Captain - $57,000
Metro F/O - $38,000

Express Freighters Australia
B737 Captain - $120,000
B737 F/O - $75,000
B767 Captain - $170,000
B767 F/O - $110,000

Pionair

Airnorth
E170 Captain - 109,000 ?
E170 F/O - 94,200
E120 Captain - ?
E120 F/O - ?
SA227 Captain - ?
SA227 F/O - ?

Skytrans
DHC-8 Captain - ?
DHC-8 F/O - ?

Network
F100 Captain - $140,000
F100 F/O - $85,000
E120 Captain - $85,000 (gone)
E120 F/O - $55,000 (gone)

Sharp Aviation
Metro Cpt -?
metro FO - ?

Hardy's
Metro Captain - $75,000
Metro F/O - $52,000
C441 Captain - $70,000

Careflight
$122,000 + +

JETGO
ERJ135 Captain $122,000 plus allowances plus 10% Super
FO $75,000 plus same
Endorsement Salary sacrificed at around $35K over two years.

VANZ (previously Pac Blue)
Captain Level 1 $176,776
Captain Level 2 $185,772
Captain Level 3 $194,765
First Officer Level 1 $103,950
First Officer Level 2 $112,217
First Officer Level 3 $120,606

Air EnZid (NZD)
B737-300
CA $142,800
FO $96,200
A320
CA $169,800
FO $110,100
B767
CA $185,800
FO $120,400
SO $96,200
B787
CA $203,100
FO $131,600
SO $96,200
B77-200ER
CA $219,200
FO $142,100
B777-300ER
CA $236,800
FO $153,500
SO $96,200
B747
CA $240,700
FO $156,000
SO $96,200

JitConnict (NZD)
B737
CA $160,600
FO $ 91,900

Jitstar NZ (NZD)
A320
CA $170,000
FO $ 93,000

"Air No Got" (thanks NCD)
Salary and tax rates are in PGK (KINA) but paid in $AUD at the exchange rate of the day. All these figures are in $AUD having been converted at an indicative exchange rate of .40c
SALARY
DH8 Captain $110,295 First Officer $47,063
400 Captain $122,088 First Officer $74,949
F100 Captain $143,958 First Officer $99,955
737 Captain $163,544 First Officer $107,746
767 Captain $174,135 First Officer $127,072
SUPERANNUATION
Nil
TAX
PNG Kina Tax figure converted to $AUD at .40c.
Tax on $28,000 is $8,564 then 40% on every dollar over $28,000 up to $99,999.
Tax on $100, 000 is $37,364 and the 42% on every dollar over $100,00.
Eg: 737 Captain will GROSS $163, 544, pay TAX of $64, 052 and NET $99,492 ($AUD8,291 / $USD6,316 per mth) without any super paid by the Company.
To put the salary into perspective: Using the figures quoted at Post 213 and the online ATO tax calculator, the ERJ 135 Captain will net $AUD 88,913 and receive $12,000 in super, a total package to $100,913 ($1,421 pa more than the PX B737 Captain).

[Oakape]

Air New Zealand don't have B737, B767 or B747 anymore. Also, I think the 777 rates would be the same, as the endorsement is the same & it would be the same pilot group. Perhaps someone could clarify.

VANZ rates are NZD (yes, they do get paid that much less than the Aussies).

[AerocatS2A]

Air NZ A320 figures are old as well. I believe it is around 115K for FO and 225K for Capt.

[PPSS]

Guys any idea about Air New Zealand ATR 72 FO Salary? Thank you

[PPSS]

Air NZ A320 figures are old as well. I believe it is around 115K for FO and 225K for Capt.
Hi mate would you know the ATR 72 Fo salary for Air NZ?

[Lapon]

Atr FO $63920 apparently....

https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/595856-air-nz-regionals-hemorrhaging-2.html

[AerocatS2A]

Hi mate would you know the ATR 72 Fo salary for Air NZ?
Can’t help sorry. Also my A320 Capt figure was way off, that was year 12 I think, not initial.

[Ollie Onion]

Current Jetstar NZ figure:

Level 1 Capt. $189,200 base
Level 2 Capt. $194,300 base

plus $212 per hour above 65 block hours per month
plus $3500 per annum Meal Break compo

Level 1 FO. $102,000 base
Level 2 FO $110,500 base

plus $138 per hour above 65 block hours per month
plus $2000 per annum Meal Break compo

Other additions include Day off payments, annual bonuses (not guaranteed but paid for last 4 years), additional duties allowances etc and now also a DTA of $5.10 sign on to sign off.

[Hold_Short]

New pay scales for Jetconnect in New Zealand.


QANTAS
767 Captain - $227,760
737 F/O - $114,000
Longhaul Min Guarantee is 160 hours and 6 1/2 rosters per year. Add 27.5 hours for mandatory training. 1067.5 hours.
Effective 1 Jul 18
Second Officer
A380.............................. B744.............................. A330
1. 91.58/ $97.6K..............1. 91.58/ $97.6K.............. 1. 91.58/ $97.6K.
2a. 98.01/ $104.6K...........2a. 98.01/ $104.6K........... 2a. 98.01/ $104.6K
2b. 126.22/ $134.7K.........2b. 120.21/ $128.3K.......... 2b. 114.51/ 122.2K
3. 132.89/ $141.9K...........3. 126.56/ $135.1K........... 3. 120.47/ $128.6K
Hourly rates go up 2-3% each year until year 12.
Individual fleet divisors may change. A330 currently 160. A380 currently 180.
Avg O/T per BP
50*...................................... 29.................................3
First Officer.
Using Year 12 rate only as that’s what they’re all on.
Using 160 min guarantee. Most divisors between 175- 185
A380.......................... B744.......................... A330.
215.18/ $229.7K.......... 204.93/ $218.8K......... 195.15/ $208.3K
Average O/T
46*.............................. 23.............................. 3.
Captain
Divisor and notes as per F/O
A380........................... B744............................ A330
326.07/ $348.1K........... 310.55/ $331.5K............ 295.76/ $315.7K
Average o/t
45*............................... 25.................................3.
* Note that the 380 o/t numbers will decrease dramatically when the 380 reverts to one LHR flight via SIN. Likely to be closer to 30.

Virgin Australia
VAI:
New pay for A330/B777 as follows:
Capt (+9.5% super)
July 17 $272,986 ($298,919)
July 18 $283,868 ($310,835)
July 19 $291,674 ($319,383)
FO (65% of Capt)
July 17 $177,440 ($194,287)
July 18 $184,513 ($202,042)
July 19 $198,588 ($207,598)
SO (53% of FO)
July 17 $94,043 ($102,977)
July 18 $97,792 ($107,082)
July 19 $100,481 ($110,027)
OT trigger at 75.25 hours per 28 day roster (at Capt $321/330/339hr, FO $209/215/221hr, SO $111/114/117 hr). Minimum credit guarantee of 5 hours for work on any day which includes paxing when in association with a flight duty pairing. Plus some other technicalities and adjustments.
New base rates for B737: (super not included)
Capt.
July 2017 $227,904
July 2018 $233,023
July 2019 $239,440
FO Level 1 / 2 / 3
July 2017 $125,347/$136,742/$148,138
July 2018 $128,167/$139,819/$151,471
July 2019 $131,692/$143,664/$155,637
OT trigger at 68.25 hrs per 28 day RP.


TIGER/JETSTAR A320 RATES 2014
TIGER CAPTAIN
Base $171,000 + EFA $140 + Retention $10,000
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $181,000
682hrs $195,700
787hrs $210,000
900hrs $226,220

JETSTAR CAPTAIN
Base $163,418 + EFA $207.65 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $163,418
682hrs $163,418
787hrs $163,418
900hrs $186,882

TIGER FO Level 3
Base $114,570 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $121,237
682hrs $128,587
787hrs $135,937
900hrs $143,847

JETSTAR FO Level 3
Base $106,222 + EFA $134,97 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $106,222
682hrs $106,222
787hrs $106,222
900hrs $121,473

TIGER FO Level 2
Base $109,440 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $116,107
682hrs $123,457
787hrs $130,807
900hrs $138,717

JETSTAR FO Level 2
Base $98,051 + EFA $124.59 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $98,051
682hrs $98,051
787hrs $98,051
900hrs $112,129

TIGER FO Level 1
Base $94,050 + EFA $70 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $94,050
682hrs $101,400
787hrs $108,750
900hrs $116,660

JETSTAR FO Level 1
Base $89,880 + EFA $114.21 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $89,880
682hrs $89,880
787hrs $89,880
900hrs $102,785

Strategic
A320 F/O - $113,000

Cobham
B717 Captain - $158,500*
B717 F/O - $85,250 up to $100,750 after year 5
BAe 146 Captain - $158,000*
BAe 146 F/O - $85,250 up to $100,750 after year 5
DHC-8 Captain - $78,255
DHC-8 F/O - $46,940
Coastwatch DHC-8 Captain ~ 130,000
Coastwatch DHC-8 F/O ~ 78,000

Alliance
F100 Captain - $122,675
F100 F/O - $82,819
F50 Captain ?
F50 F/O ?

Skywest/VARA
A320 Captain - $165,000
A320 F/O - $107,250
F100 Captain - $128,848
F100 F/O - $83,751
F50 Captain - $97,244
F50 F/O - $63,209

Qantaslink
Q400 Captain - $92,863
Q400 F/O - $60,361
Q300/Q200 Captain - $86,789
Q300/Q200 F/O - $56,466

RrrrrrrrrExxyyyyyy
Base rates years 1-10 as of July 1 2016
F/O 54,000 - 66,000
Capt 89,000 - 109,000
+2.5% per year until 2018

"The new Aero-Duck"
BAe32 Captain - $64,862
BAe32 F/O - $46,559

RFDS
QLD - B200, PC12, C208 Line pilot - Tier 1 $93784 Tier 2 $104817

Skippers
DHC-8 Captain -$89,168
DHC-8 F/O - $55,000*
E120 Captain - $88,816
E120 F/O - $55,000*
SA227 Captain - $70,855
SA227 F/O - $42,537

Brindabella (R.I.P.)
J41 Captain - $69,000
J41 F/O - $46,000
Metro Captain - $57,000
Metro F/O - $38,000

Express Freighters Australia
B737 Captain - $120,000
B737 F/O - $75,000
B767 Captain - $170,000
B767 F/O - $110,000

Pionair

Airnorth
E170 Captain - 109,000 ?
E170 F/O - 94,200
E120 Captain - ?
E120 F/O - ?
SA227 Captain - ?
SA227 F/O - ?

Skytrans
DHC-8 Captain - ?
DHC-8 F/O - ?

Network
F100 Captain - $140,000
F100 F/O - $85,000
E120 Captain - $85,000 (gone)
E120 F/O - $55,000 (gone)

Sharp Aviation
Metro Cpt -?
metro FO - ?

Hardy's
Metro Captain - $75,000
Metro F/O - $52,000
C441 Captain - $70,000

Careflight
$122,000 + +

JETGO
ERJ135 Captain $122,000 plus allowances plus 10% Super
FO $75,000 plus same
Endorsement Salary sacrificed at around $35K over two years.

VANZ (previously Pac Blue)
Captain Level 1 $176,776
Captain Level 2 $185,772
Captain Level 3 $194,765
First Officer Level 1 $103,950
First Officer Level 2 $112,217
First Officer Level 3 $120,606

Air EnZid (NZD)
B737-300
CA $142,800
FO $96,200
A320
CA $169,800
FO $110,100
B767
CA $185,800
FO $120,400
SO $96,200
B787
CA $203,100
FO $131,600
SO $96,200
B77-200ER
CA $219,200
FO $142,100
B777-300ER
CA $236,800
FO $153,500
SO $96,200
B747
CA $240,700
FO $156,000
SO $96,200

Jetconnect (NZD)
B737-800
Captain

From 20 Aug 18 to 14 Apr 19: Y1 $175,520 Y2 $185,524 Y3 $189,744
From 15 Apr 19 to 12 Apr 20: Y1 $179,908 Y2 $190,162 Y3 $194,487
From 13 Apr 20 to 11 Apr 21: Y1 $184,406 Y2 $194,916 Y3 $199,349

First Officers

From 20 Aug 18 to 14 Apr 19: Y1 $100,378 Y2 $111,314 Y3 $113,847
From 15 Apr 19 to 12 Apr 20: Y1 $102,887 Y2 $114,097 Y3 $116,693
From 13 Apr 20 to 11 Apr 21: Y1 $105,459 Y2 $116,949 Y3$119,610

Jitstar NZ (NZD)
A320
CA $170,000
FO $ 93,000

"Air No Got" (thanks NCD)
Salary and tax rates are in PGK (KINA) but paid in $AUD at the exchange rate of the day. All these figures are in $AUD having been converted at an indicative exchange rate of .40c
SALARY
DH8 Captain $110,295 First Officer $47,063
400 Captain $122,088 First Officer $74,949
F100 Captain $143,958 First Officer $99,955
737 Captain $163,544 First Officer $107,746
767 Captain $174,135 First Officer $127,072
SUPERANNUATION
Nil
TAX
PNG Kina Tax figure converted to $AUD at .40c.
Tax on $28,000 is $8,564 then 40% on every dollar over $28,000 up to $99,999.
Tax on $100, 000 is $37,364 and the 42% on every dollar over $100,00.
Eg: 737 Captain will GROSS $163, 544, pay TAX of $64, 052 and NET $99,492 ($AUD8,291 / $USD6,316 per mth) without any super paid by the Company.
To put the salary into perspective: Using the figures quoted at Post 213 and the online ATO tax calculator, the ERJ 135 Captain will net $AUD 88,913 and receive $12,000 in super, a total package to $100,913 ($1,421 pa more than the PX B737 Captain).

[Tankengine]

No B767 at Qantas for some years.

[Chris2303]

No B767 at Qantas for some years.

Freighters

[Keg]

Then that’d be Express Freighters? It’s not like the 717 or A320 rates appear under Qantas.

[Tankengine]

Freighters
As per Keg above:
Express freighters? They have a listing further down the page some $57K less.
My statement stands.

[AerocatS2A]

Air NZ doesn't have B737s, B767s, or B747s anymore either.

[romeocharlie]

As per Keg above:
Express freighters? They have a listing further down the page some $57K less.
My statement stands.



No more QF76 rates and EFA numbers changed to reflect the EBA that is about to expire, also Air NZ now updated and aircraft removed.

QANTAS
Longhaul Min Guarantee is 160 hours and 6 1/2 rosters per year. Add 27.5 hours for mandatory training. 1067.5 hours.
Effective 1 Jul 18
Second Officer
A380.............................. B744.............................. A330
1. 91.58/ $97.6K..............1. 91.58/ $97.6K.............. 1. 91.58/ $97.6K.
2a. 98.01/ $104.6K...........2a. 98.01/ $104.6K........... 2a. 98.01/ $104.6K
2b. 126.22/ $134.7K.........2b. 120.21/ $128.3K.......... 2b. 114.51/ 122.2K
3. 132.89/ $141.9K...........3. 126.56/ $135.1K........... 3. 120.47/ $128.6K
Hourly rates go up 2-3% each year until year 12.
Individual fleet divisors may change. A330 currently 160. A380 currently 180.
Avg O/T per BP
50*...................................... 29.................................3
First Officer.
Using Year 12 rate only as that’s what they’re all on.
Using 160 min guarantee. Most divisors between 175- 185
A380.......................... B744.......................... A330.
215.18/ $229.7K.......... 204.93/ $218.8K......... 195.15/ $208.3K
Average O/T
46*.............................. 23.............................. 3.
Captain
Divisor and notes as per F/O
A380........................... B744............................ A330
326.07/ $348.1K........... 310.55/ $331.5K............ 295.76/ $315.7K
Average o/t
45*............................... 25.................................3.
* Note that the 380 o/t numbers will decrease dramatically when the 380 reverts to one LHR flight via SIN. Likely to be closer to 30.

Virgin Australia
VAI:
New pay for A330/B777 as follows:
Capt (+9.5% super)
July 17 $272,986 ($298,919)
July 18 $283,868 ($310,835)
July 19 $291,674 ($319,383)
FO (65% of Capt)
July 17 $177,440 ($194,287)
July 18 $184,513 ($202,042)
July 19 $198,588 ($207,598)
SO (53% of FO)
July 17 $94,043 ($102,977)
July 18 $97,792 ($107,082)
July 19 $100,481 ($110,027)
OT trigger at 75.25 hours per 28 day roster (at Capt $321/330/339hr, FO $209/215/221hr, SO $111/114/117 hr). Minimum credit guarantee of 5 hours for work on any day which includes paxing when in association with a flight duty pairing. Plus some other technicalities and adjustments.
New base rates for B737: (super not included)
Capt.
July 2017 $227,904
July 2018 $233,023
July 2019 $239,440
FO Level 1 / 2 / 3
July 2017 $125,347/$136,742/$148,138
July 2018 $128,167/$139,819/$151,471
July 2019 $131,692/$143,664/$155,637
OT trigger at 68.25 hrs per 28 day RP.


TIGER/JETSTAR A320 RATES 2014
TIGER CAPTAIN
Base $171,000 + EFA $140 + Retention $10,000
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $181,000
682hrs $195,700
787hrs $210,000
900hrs $226,220

JETSTAR CAPTAIN
Base $163,418 + EFA $207.65 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $163,418
682hrs $163,418
787hrs $163,418
900hrs $186,882

TIGER FO Level 3
Base $114,570 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $121,237
682hrs $128,587
787hrs $135,937
900hrs $143,847

JETSTAR FO Level 3
Base $106,222 + EFA $134,97 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $106,222
682hrs $106,222
787hrs $106,222
900hrs $121,473

TIGER FO Level 2
Base $109,440 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $116,107
682hrs $123,457
787hrs $130,807
900hrs $138,717

JETSTAR FO Level 2
Base $98,051 + EFA $124.59 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $98,051
682hrs $98,051
787hrs $98,051
900hrs $112,129

TIGER FO Level 1
Base $94,050 + EFA $70 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $94,050
682hrs $101,400
787hrs $108,750
900hrs $116,660

JETSTAR FO Level 1
Base $89,880 + EFA $114.21 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $89,880
682hrs $89,880
787hrs $89,880
900hrs $102,785

Strategic
A320 F/O - $113,000

Cobham
B717 Captain - $158,500*
B717 F/O - $85,250 up to $100,750 after year 5
BAe 146 Captain - $158,000*
BAe 146 F/O - $85,250 up to $100,750 after year 5
DHC-8 Captain - $78,255
DHC-8 F/O - $46,940
Coastwatch DHC-8 Captain ~ 130,000
Coastwatch DHC-8 F/O ~ 78,000

Alliance
F100 Captain - $122,675
F100 F/O - $82,819
F50 Captain ?
F50 F/O ?

Skywest/VARA
A320 Captain - $165,000
A320 F/O - $107,250
F100 Captain - $128,848
F100 F/O - $83,751
F50 Captain - $97,244
F50 F/O - $63,209

Qantaslink
Q400 Captain - $92,863
Q400 F/O - $60,361
Q300/Q200 Captain - $86,789
Q300/Q200 F/O - $56,466

RrrrrrrrrExxyyyyyy
Base rates years 1-10 as of July 1 2016
F/O 54,000 - 66,000
Capt 89,000 - 109,000
+2.5% per year until 2018

"The new Aero-Duck"
BAe32 Captain - $64,862
BAe32 F/O - $46,559

RFDS
QLD - B200, PC12, C208 Line pilot - Tier 1 $93784 Tier 2 $104817

Skippers
DHC-8 Captain -$89,168
DHC-8 F/O - $55,000*
E120 Captain - $88,816
E120 F/O - $55,000*
SA227 Captain - $70,855
SA227 F/O - $42,537

Brindabella (R.I.P.)
J41 Captain - $69,000
J41 F/O - $46,000
Metro Captain - $57,000
Metro F/O - $38,000

Express Freighters Australia
B737 Captain - $161,038
B737 F/O - $104,074
B767 Captain - $185,764
B767 F/O - $127,387

Pionair

Airnorth
E170 Captain - 109,000 ?
E170 F/O - 94,200
E120 Captain - ?
E120 F/O - ?
SA227 Captain - ?
SA227 F/O - ?

Skytrans
DHC-8 Captain - ?
DHC-8 F/O - ?

Network
F100 Captain - $140,000
F100 F/O - $85,000
E120 Captain - $85,000 (gone)
E120 F/O - $55,000 (gone)

Sharp Aviation
Metro Cpt -?
metro FO - ?

Hardy's
Metro Captain - $75,000
Metro F/O - $52,000
C441 Captain - $70,000

Careflight
$122,000 + +

JETGO
ERJ135 Captain $122,000 plus allowances plus 10% Super
FO $75,000 plus same
Endorsement Salary sacrificed at around $35K over two years.

VANZ (previously Pac Blue)
Captain Level 1 $176,776
Captain Level 2 $185,772
Captain Level 3 $194,765
First Officer Level 1 $103,950
First Officer Level 2 $112,217
First Officer Level 3 $120,606

Air EnZid (NZD)
2018 year 1 pay rates

320
FO 117,898
CA 183,371

787-9
SO 105,323
FO 140,386
CA 218,348

777-300
SO 105,323
FO 164,396
CA 255,691

Jetconnect (NZD)
B737-800
Captain

From 20 Aug 18 to 14 Apr 19: Y1 $175,520 Y2 $185,524 Y3 $189,744
From 15 Apr 19 to 12 Apr 20: Y1 $179,908 Y2 $190,162 Y3 $194,487
From 13 Apr 20 to 11 Apr 21: Y1 $184,406 Y2 $194,916 Y3 $199,349

First Officers

From 20 Aug 18 to 14 Apr 19: Y1 $100,378 Y2 $111,314 Y3 $113,847
From 15 Apr 19 to 12 Apr 20: Y1 $102,887 Y2 $114,097 Y3 $116,693
From 13 Apr 20 to 11 Apr 21: Y1 $105,459 Y2 $116,949 Y3$119,610

Jitstar NZ (NZD)
A320
CA $170,000
FO $ 93,000

"Air No Got" (thanks NCD)
Salary and tax rates are in PGK (KINA) but paid in $AUD at the exchange rate of the day. All these figures are in $AUD having been converted at an indicative exchange rate of .40c
SALARY
DH8 Captain $110,295 First Officer $47,063
400 Captain $122,088 First Officer $74,949
F100 Captain $143,958 First Officer $99,955
737 Captain $163,544 First Officer $107,746
767 Captain $174,135 First Officer $127,072
SUPERANNUATION
Nil
TAX
PNG Kina Tax figure converted to $AUD at .40c.
Tax on $28,000 is $8,564 then 40% on every dollar over $28,000 up to $99,999.
Tax on $100, 000 is $37,364 and the 42% on every dollar over $100,00.
Eg: 737 Captain will GROSS $163, 544, pay TAX of $64, 052 and NET $99,492 ($AUD8,291 / $USD6,316 per mth) without any super paid by the Company.
To put the salary into perspective: Using the figures quoted at Post 213 and the online ATO tax calculator, the ERJ 135 Captain will net $AUD 88,913 and receive $12,000 in super, a total package to $100,913 ($1,421 pa more than the PX B737 Captain).

[geeup]

Probably could remove Jet Go now

[Keg]

Geez, I’ve just had a closer look through those T&Cs. The answer as to why there is a pilot shortage is clear as day.

[Gnadenburg]

Geez, I’ve just had a closer look through those T&Cs. The answer as to why there is a pilot shortage is clear as day.



Yep. I wouldn't bother repatriating home for a lot of that even with property in most of those bases.

And look at NZ, bit hard to live on Queenstown hill on those GA wages.

[Berealgetreal]

Are those JQ figures correct?

[neville_nobody]

Geez, I’ve just had a closer look through those T&Cs. The answer as to why there is a pilot shortage is clear as day.





However there are plenty of people who are in highly qualified, graduate/post graduate jobs who would look at those numbers and think you are grossly overpaid as they will probably never get anywhere near those pay levels, and most likely they smashed you in school and uni. The decline of salaried jobs is happening everywhere, not just in aviation. The only plus for pilots is we are not working 70 a hours week in week out to collect 200K+ salaries.

Have a chat to anyone working in Medicine, Law or the serious end of Banking and compare some figures, you'll be blown away. Yeah sure one guy gets paid the big bucks but have a look at what everyone else gets and how many hours they put in to do it.

The problem with all this is that a Manager in Aviation who comes from another industry looks at what people got paid in their past profession then looks at pilots and get all resentful about the salary levels on offer.

[Berealgetreal]

Banking, Medicine and Law are the main industries where salaries continue to grow with years in the industry.

My closest friend is an investment banker of 20+ years. He's worked/works at the top end in London with all the big name companies and has also worked in Aus. He told me that the newbies start anywhere between 100-200k. They are expected to do all sorts of hours, its their version of GA hard yards. He gave me a few scenarios ending them with "19-20 years of age, first job out of uni on 6 figures you do as your told or you're gone" "they know this is their lucky break and the rewards down he track are huge". Has some great stories of his career, very interesting but not my cup of tea. Incredibly cut throat.

[Brightside]

Updated COBHAM B717 Payscale

QANTAS
Longhaul Min Guarantee is 160 hours and 6 1/2 rosters per year. Add 27.5 hours for mandatory training. 1067.5 hours.
Effective 1 Jul 18
Second Officer
A380.............................. B744.............................. A330
1. 91.58/ $97.6K..............1. 91.58/ $97.6K.............. 1. 91.58/ $97.6K.
2a. 98.01/ $104.6K...........2a. 98.01/ $104.6K........... 2a. 98.01/ $104.6K
2b. 126.22/ $134.7K.........2b. 120.21/ $128.3K.......... 2b. 114.51/ 122.2K
3. 132.89/ $141.9K...........3. 126.56/ $135.1K........... 3. 120.47/ $128.6K
Hourly rates go up 2-3% each year until year 12.
Individual fleet divisors may change. A330 currently 160. A380 currently 180.
Avg O/T per BP
50*...................................... 29.................................3
First Officer.
Using Year 12 rate only as that’s what they’re all on.
Using 160 min guarantee. Most divisors between 175- 185
A380.......................... B744.......................... A330.
215.18/ $229.7K.......... 204.93/ $218.8K......... 195.15/ $208.3K
Average O/T
46*.............................. 23.............................. 3.
Captain
Divisor and notes as per F/O
A380........................... B744............................ A330
326.07/ $348.1K........... 310.55/ $331.5K............ 295.76/ $315.7K
Average o/t
45*............................... 25.................................3.
* Note that the 380 o/t numbers will decrease dramatically when the 380 reverts to one LHR flight via SIN. Likely to be closer to 30.

Virgin Australia
VAI:
New pay for A330/B777 as follows:
Capt (+9.5% super)
July 17 $272,986 ($298,919)
July 18 $283,868 ($310,835)
July 19 $291,674 ($319,383)
FO (65% of Capt)
July 17 $177,440 ($194,287)
July 18 $184,513 ($202,042)
July 19 $198,588 ($207,598)
SO (53% of FO)
July 17 $94,043 ($102,977)
July 18 $97,792 ($107,082)
July 19 $100,481 ($110,027)
OT trigger at 75.25 hours per 28 day roster (at Capt $321/330/339hr, FO $209/215/221hr, SO $111/114/117 hr). Minimum credit guarantee of 5 hours for work on any day which includes paxing when in association with a flight duty pairing. Plus some other technicalities and adjustments.
New base rates for B737: (super not included)
Capt.
July 2017 $227,904
July 2018 $233,023
July 2019 $239,440
FO Level 1 / 2 / 3
July 2017 $125,347/$136,742/$148,138
July 2018 $128,167/$139,819/$151,471
July 2019 $131,692/$143,664/$155,637
OT trigger at 68.25 hrs per 28 day RP.


TIGER/JETSTAR A320 RATES 2014
TIGER CAPTAIN
Base $171,000 + EFA $140 + Retention $10,000
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $181,000
682hrs $195,700
787hrs $210,000
900hrs $226,220

JETSTAR CAPTAIN
Base $163,418 + EFA $207.65 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $163,418
682hrs $163,418
787hrs $163,418
900hrs $186,882

TIGER FO Level 3
Base $114,570 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $121,237
682hrs $128,587
787hrs $135,937
900hrs $143,847

JETSTAR FO Level 3
Base $106,222 + EFA $134,97 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $106,222
682hrs $106,222
787hrs $106,222
900hrs $121,473

TIGER FO Level 2
Base $109,440 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $116,107
682hrs $123,457
787hrs $130,807
900hrs $138,717

JETSTAR FO Level 2
Base $98,051 + EFA $124.59 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $98,051
682hrs $98,051
787hrs $98,051
900hrs $112,129

TIGER FO Level 1
Base $94,050 + EFA $70 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $94,050
682hrs $101,400
787hrs $108,750
900hrs $116,660

JETSTAR FO Level 1
Base $89,880 + EFA $114.21 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $89,880
682hrs $89,880
787hrs $89,880
900hrs $102,785

Strategic
A320 F/O - $113,000

Cobham
B717 Rates as of 1st July 2018
B717 Captain - $188,000
B717 F/O Yr 1-4 - $112,800
B717 F/O Yr 5+ - $122,200

BAe 146 Captain - $158,000*
BAe 146 F/O - $85,250 up to $100,750 after year 5
DHC-8 Captain - $78,255
DHC-8 F/O - $46,940
Coastwatch DHC-8 Captain ~ 130,000
Coastwatch DHC-8 F/O ~ 78,000

Alliance
F100 Captain - $122,675
F100 F/O - $82,819
F50 Captain ?
F50 F/O ?

Skywest/VARA
A320 Captain - $165,000
A320 F/O - $107,250
F100 Captain - $128,848
F100 F/O - $83,751
F50 Captain - $97,244
F50 F/O - $63,209

Qantaslink
Q400 Captain - $92,863
Q400 F/O - $60,361
Q300/Q200 Captain - $86,789
Q300/Q200 F/O - $56,466

RrrrrrrrrExxyyyyyy
Base rates years 1-10 as of July 1 2016
F/O 54,000 - 66,000
Capt 89,000 - 109,000
+2.5% per year until 2018

"The new Aero-Duck"
BAe32 Captain - $64,862
BAe32 F/O - $46,559

RFDS
QLD - B200, PC12, C208 Line pilot - Tier 1 $93784 Tier 2 $104817

Skippers
DHC-8 Captain -$89,168
DHC-8 F/O - $55,000*
E120 Captain - $88,816
E120 F/O - $55,000*
SA227 Captain - $70,855
SA227 F/O - $42,537

Brindabella (R.I.P.)
J41 Captain - $69,000
J41 F/O - $46,000
Metro Captain - $57,000
Metro F/O - $38,000

Express Freighters Australia
B737 Captain - $161,038
B737 F/O - $104,074
B767 Captain - $185,764
B767 F/O - $127,387

Pionair

Airnorth
E170 Captain - 109,000 ?
E170 F/O - 94,200
E120 Captain - ?
E120 F/O - ?
SA227 Captain - ?
SA227 F/O - ?

Skytrans
DHC-8 Captain - ?
DHC-8 F/O - ?

Network
F100 Captain - $140,000
F100 F/O - $85,000
E120 Captain - $85,000 (gone)
E120 F/O - $55,000 (gone)

Sharp Aviation
Metro Cpt -?
metro FO - ?

Hardy's
Metro Captain - $75,000
Metro F/O - $52,000
C441 Captain - $70,000

Careflight
$122,000 + +

JETGO
ERJ135 Captain $122,000 plus allowances plus 10% Super
FO $75,000 plus same
Endorsement Salary sacrificed at around $35K over two years.

VANZ (previously Pac Blue)
Captain Level 1 $176,776
Captain Level 2 $185,772
Captain Level 3 $194,765
First Officer Level 1 $103,950
First Officer Level 2 $112,217
First Officer Level 3 $120,606

Air EnZid (NZD)
2018 year 1 pay rates

320
FO 117,898
CA 183,371

787-9
SO 105,323
FO 140,386
CA 218,348

777-300
SO 105,323
FO 164,396
CA 255,691

Jetconnect (NZD)
B737-800
Captain

From 20 Aug 18 to 14 Apr 19: Y1 $175,520 Y2 $185,524 Y3 $189,744
From 15 Apr 19 to 12 Apr 20: Y1 $179,908 Y2 $190,162 Y3 $194,487
From 13 Apr 20 to 11 Apr 21: Y1 $184,406 Y2 $194,916 Y3 $199,349

First Officers

From 20 Aug 18 to 14 Apr 19: Y1 $100,378 Y2 $111,314 Y3 $113,847
From 15 Apr 19 to 12 Apr 20: Y1 $102,887 Y2 $114,097 Y3 $116,693
From 13 Apr 20 to 11 Apr 21: Y1 $105,459 Y2 $116,949 Y3$119,610

Jitstar NZ (NZD)
A320
CA $170,000
FO $ 93,000

"Air No Got" (thanks NCD)
Salary and tax rates are in PGK (KINA) but paid in $AUD at the exchange rate of the day. All these figures are in $AUD having been converted at an indicative exchange rate of .40c
SALARY
DH8 Captain $110,295 First Officer $47,063
400 Captain $122,088 First Officer $74,949
F100 Captain $143,958 First Officer $99,955
737 Captain $163,544 First Officer $107,746
767 Captain $174,135 First Officer $127,072
SUPERANNUATION
Nil
TAX
PNG Kina Tax figure converted to $AUD at .40c.
Tax on $28,000 is $8,564 then 40% on every dollar over $28,000 up to $99,999.
Tax on $100, 000 is $37,364 and the 42% on every dollar over $100,00.
Eg: 737 Captain will GROSS $163, 544, pay TAX of $64, 052 and NET $99,492 ($AUD8,291 / $USD6,316 per mth) without any super paid by the Company.
To put the salary into perspective: Using the figures quoted at Post 213 and the online ATO tax calculator, the ERJ 135 Captain will net $AUD 88,913 and receive $12,000 in super, a total package to $100,913 ($1,421 pa more than the PX B737 Captain).

[JPJP]

However there are plenty of people who are in highly qualified, graduate/post graduate jobs who would look at those numbers and think you are grossly overpaid as they will probably never get anywhere near those pay levels, and most likely they smashed you in school and uni. The decline of salaried jobs is happening everywhere, not just in aviation. The only plus for pilots is we are not working 70 a hours week in week out to collect 200K+ salaries.

Have a chat to anyone working in Medicine, Law or the serious end of Banking and compare some figures, you'll be blown away. Yeah sure one guy gets paid the big bucks but have a look at what everyone else gets and how many hours they put in to do it.

The problem with all this is that a Manager in Aviation who comes from another industry looks at what people got paid in their past profession then looks at pilots and get all resentful about the salary levels on offer.

I disagree with everything except for the last paragraph. I have family members in all of those professions. Including two Profs. (one of which is a head of school). They all make 200K plus. Although, I did see my lawyer relatives CV recently. It is anything but average, and my observations are subjective. Small sample size, and they obviously ran out of synapses when my turn came :)

[C441]

Short of heading down a completely different path, when comparing pilot’s incomes to other professionals there is a significant difference. Many in other professions ‘work for themselves’; their own company. Pilots, particularly those flying for airlines, are usually PAYE taxpayers who don’t have the advantage of a company tax rate or business expense deductions.

[das Uber Soldat]

Are those JQ figures correct?
Nope.

Year 1 FO at JQ is 110,447, plus EFA. Expected first year earnings around 145k.

[donkey767]

Nope.

Year 1 FO at JQ is 110,447, plus EFA. Expected first year earnings around 145k.

That must be including a decent amount of overtime though? The L1 EFA is close to $6/hr

[Bula]

$15-20K would be DTA/Highline alone.

Say $15K DTA/Highline, that would average 10 hours overtime per month for the figure. Definitely possible.

[Berealgetreal]

Thanks, thought the figures looked too low.

[ADawg]

State gov jobs.
Train driver 130k
Train guard 100k
School principal 130k
Senior teacher 100k
Entry level admin officer 60k
On top of this is 12-15% superannuation contributions Vs 9.5% which is the minimum by law.
Plus a band rise every year usually up to year 7 or 10.
Plus a 2-3% EBA increase every year.

Some of the pilot job conditions look very ordinary in comparison.

[AerocatS2A]

Everyone should earn more than everyone else. Then everyone will be happy.

[Chocks Away]

das Uber Soldat (https://www.pprune.org/members/162990-das-uber-soldat)

IF IT'S NOT CORRECT, F'GEN CHANGE IT, LIKE THOSE BEFORE HAVE DONE!
Copy and paste ALL into your reply and CHANGE YOUR DATA!
How simple does it have to be? :ugh:

Thanks to those doing so :ok:
Cobham's change (thanks Brightside) puts pressure on Network now as there new B717 matches Networks' A320 dollars!

[Gnadenburg]

But no one will be satisfied :D


Do Australian pilots fund their own retirement or rely on the old age pension ?

[VH DSJ]

Can the mods make this thread a ‘sticky’ at the top please? Thank you.

[Tankengine]

Do Australian pilots fund their own retirement or rely on the old age pension ?
It depends who they work for.

[XanaduX]

Anyone know whether the VANZ numbers quoted above are NZD or AUD?

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Those Jetstar Aus Numbers I suspect are from the 2008 EBA. As of July 1 2018 F/O level 1 $110,447, F/O level 2 $120,488, F/O level 3 $130,529, Capt $200,813. As a level 2 F/O last financial year I made $165,000 plus super, which is about average, to give an idea of expected earnings.

[Oakape]

Anyone know whether the VANZ numbers quoted above are NZD or AUD?

The numbers are in NZD

[Swanrider]

Updated Network scales & others
(Updated COBHAM B717 Payscale)

QANTAS
Longhaul Min Guarantee is 160 hours and 6 1/2 rosters per year. Add 27.5 hours for mandatory training. 1067.5 hours.
Effective 1 Jul 18
Second Officer
A380.............................. B744.............................. A330
1. 91.58/ $97.6K..............1. 91.58/ $97.6K.............. 1. 91.58/ $97.6K.
2a. 98.01/ $104.6K...........2a. 98.01/ $104.6K........... 2a. 98.01/ $104.6K
2b. 126.22/ $134.7K.........2b. 120.21/ $128.3K.......... 2b. 114.51/ 122.2K
3. 132.89/ $141.9K...........3. 126.56/ $135.1K........... 3. 120.47/ $128.6K
Hourly rates go up 2-3% each year until year 12.
Individual fleet divisors may change. A330 currently 160. A380 currently 180.
Avg O/T per BP
50*...................................... 29.................................3
First Officer.
Using Year 12 rate only as that’s what they’re all on.
Using 160 min guarantee. Most divisors between 175- 185
A380.......................... B744.......................... A330.
215.18/ $229.7K.......... 204.93/ $218.8K......... 195.15/ $208.3K
Average O/T
46*.............................. 23.............................. 3.
Captain
Divisor and notes as per F/O
A380........................... B744............................ A330
326.07/ $348.1K........... 310.55/ $331.5K............ 295.76/ $315.7K
Average o/t
45*............................... 25.................................3.
* Note that the 380 o/t numbers will decrease dramatically when the 380 reverts to one LHR flight via SIN. Likely to be closer to 30.

Express Freighters Australia
B737 Captain - $161,038
B737 F/O - $104,074
B767 Captain - $185,764
B767 F/O - $127,387
Network / Qantaslink
A320 Capt $186,000
A320 F/) ?
F100 Captain - $165,000
F100 F/O - ?
E120 Captain - $85,000 (parked)
E120 F/O - $55,000 (parked)

Eastern / Sunnies / Qantaslink
Q400 Captain - $92,863
Q400 F/O - $60,361
Q300/Q200 Captain - $86,789
Q300/Q200 F/O - $56,466

Virgin Australia
VAI:
New pay for A330/B777 as follows:
Capt (+9.5% super)
July 17 $272,986 ($298,919)
July 18 $283,868 ($310,835)
July 19 $291,674 ($319,383)
FO (65% of Capt)
July 17 $177,440 ($194,287)
July 18 $184,513 ($202,042)
July 19 $198,588 ($207,598)
SO (53% of FO)
July 17 $94,043 ($102,977)
July 18 $97,792 ($107,082)
July 19 $100,481 ($110,027)
OT trigger at 75.25 hours per 28 day roster (at Capt $321/330/339hr, FO $209/215/221hr, SO $111/114/117 hr). Minimum credit guarantee of 5 hours for work on any day which includes paxing when in association with a flight duty pairing. Plus some other technicalities and adjustments.
New base rates for B737: (super not included)
Capt.
July 2017 $227,904
July 2018 $233,023
July 2019 $239,440
FO Level 1 / 2 / 3
July 2017 $125,347/$136,742/$148,138
July 2018 $128,167/$139,819/$151,471
July 2019 $131,692/$143,664/$155,637
OT trigger at 68.25 hrs per 28 day RP.

Skywest/VARA
A320 Captain - $165,000
A320 F/O - $107,250
F100 Captain - $128,848
F100 F/O - $83,751
F50 Captain - $97,244
F50 F/O - $63,209

TIGER/JETSTAR A320 RATES 2014
TIGER CAPTAIN
Base $171,000 + EFA $140 + Retention $10,000
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $181,000
682hrs $195,700
787hrs $210,000
900hrs $226,220

TIGER FO Level 3
Base $114,570 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $121,237
682hrs $128,587
787hrs $135,937
900hrs $143,847

JETSTAR FO Level 3
Base $106,222 + EFA $134,97 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $106,222
682hrs $106,222
787hrs $106,222
900hrs $121,473

TIGER FO Level 2
Base $109,440 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $116,107
682hrs $123,457
787hrs $130,807
900hrs $138,717

JETSTAR FO Level 2
Base $98,051 + EFA $124.59 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $98,051
682hrs $98,051
787hrs $98,051
900hrs $112,129

TIGER FO Level 1
Base $94,050 + EFA $70 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $94,050
682hrs $101,400
787hrs $108,750
900hrs $116,660

JETSTAR FO Level 1
Base $89,880 + EFA $114.21 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $89,880
682hrs $89,880
787hrs $89,880
900hrs $102,785

Strategic
A320 F/O - $113,000

Cobham
B717 Rates as of 1st July 2018
B717 Captain - $188,000
B717 F/O Yr 1-4 - $112,800
B717 F/O Yr 5+ - $122,200

BAe 146 Captain - $158,000*
BAe 146 F/O - $85,250 up to $100,750 after year 5
DHC-8 Captain - $78,255
DHC-8 F/O - $46,940
Coastwatch DHC-8 Captain ~ 130,000
Coastwatch DHC-8 F/O ~ 78,000

Alliance
F100 Captain - $122,675
F100 F/O - $82,819
F50 Captain ?
F50 F/O ?

RrrrrrrrrExxyyyyyy
Base rates years 1-10 as of July 1 2016
F/O 54,000 - 66,000
Capt 89,000 - 109,000
+2.5% per year until 2018

"The new Aero-Duck"
BAe32 Captain - $64,862
BAe32 F/O - $46,559

RFDS
QLD - B200, PC12, C208 Line pilot - Tier 1 $93784 Tier 2 $104817

Skippers
DHC-8 Captain -$120,000 + o/time!!!
DHC-8 F/O - $55,000*
E120 Captain - $88,816?
E120 F/O - $55,000*
SA227 Captain - $70,855
SA227 F/O - $42,537

Brindabella (R.I.P.)
J41 Captain - $69,000
J41 F/O - $46,000
Metro Captain - $57,000
Metro F/O - $38,000

Pionair BAE146

Airnorth
E170 Captain - 109,000
E170 F/O - 94,200
E120 Captain - ?
E120 F/O - ?
SA227 Captain - ?
SA227 F/O - ?

Skytrans
DHC-8 Captain - ?
DHC-8 F/O - ?

Sharp Aviation
Metro Cpt -?
metro FO - ?

Hardy's
Metro Captain - $75,000
Metro F/O - $52,000
C441 Captain - $70,000

Careflight
$122,000 + +

JETGO
ERJ135 Captain $122,000 plus allowances plus 10% Super
FO $75,000 plus same
Endorsement Salary sacrificed at around $35K over two years.

VANZ (previously Pac Blue)
Captain Level 1 $176,776
Captain Level 2 $185,772
Captain Level 3 $194,765
First Officer Level 1 $103,950
First Officer Level 2 $112,217
First Officer Level 3 $120,606

Air EnZid (NZD)
2018 year 1 pay rates
320
FO 117,898
CA 183,371
787-9
SO 105,323
FO 140,386
CA 218,348
777-300
SO 105,323
FO 164,396
CA 255,691

Jetconnect (NZD)
B737-800
Captain

From 20 Aug 18 to 14 Apr 19: Y1 $175,520 Y2 $185,524 Y3 $189,744
From 15 Apr 19 to 12 Apr 20: Y1 $179,908 Y2 $190,162 Y3 $194,487
From 13 Apr 20 to 11 Apr 21: Y1 $184,406 Y2 $194,916 Y3 $199,349

First Officers

From 20 Aug 18 to 14 Apr 19: Y1 $100,378 Y2 $111,314 Y3 $113,847
From 15 Apr 19 to 12 Apr 20: Y1 $102,887 Y2 $114,097 Y3 $116,693
From 13 Apr 20 to 11 Apr 21: Y1 $105,459 Y2 $116,949 Y3$119,610

Jitstar NZ (NZD)
A320
CA $170,000
FO $ 93,000

"Air No Got" (thanks NCD)
Salary and tax rates are in PGK (KINA) but paid in $AUD at the exchange rate of the day. All these figures are in $AUD having been converted at an indicative exchange rate of .40c
SALARY
DH8 Captain $110,295 First Officer $47,063
400 Captain $122,088 First Officer $74,949
F100 Captain $143,958 First Officer $99,955
737 Captain $163,544 First Officer $107,746
767 Captain $174,135 First Officer $127,072
SUPERANNUATION
Nil
TAX
PNG Kina Tax figure converted to $AUD at .40c.
Tax on $28,000 is $8,564 then 40% on every dollar over $28,000 up to $99,999.
Tax on $100, 000 is $37,364 and the 42% on every dollar over $100,00.
Eg: 737 Captain will GROSS $163, 544, pay TAX of $64, 052 and NET $99,492 ($AUD8,291 / $USD6,316 per mth) without any super paid by the Company.
To put the salary into perspective: Using the figures quoted at Post 213 and the online ATO tax calculator, the ERJ 135 Captain will net $AUD 88,913 and receive $12,000 in super, a total package to $100,913 ($1,421 pa more than the PX B737 Captain).

[pyrophoenix]

QANTAS
Longhaul Min Guarantee is 160 hours and 6 1/2 rosters per year. Add 27.5 hours for mandatory training. 1067.5 hours.
Effective 1 Jul 18
Second Officer
A380.............................. B744.............................. A330
1. 91.58/ $97.6K..............1. 91.58/ $97.6K.............. 1. 91.58/ $97.6K.
2a. 98.01/ $104.6K...........2a. 98.01/ $104.6K........... 2a. 98.01/ $104.6K
2b. 126.22/ $134.7K.........2b. 120.21/ $128.3K.......... 2b. 114.51/ 122.2K
3. 132.89/ $141.9K...........3. 126.56/ $135.1K........... 3. 120.47/ $128.6K
Hourly rates go up 2-3% each year until year 12.
Individual fleet divisors may change. A330 currently 160. A380 currently 180.
Avg O/T per BP
50*...................................... 29.................................3
First Officer.
Using Year 12 rate only as that’s what they’re all on.
Using 160 min guarantee. Most divisors between 175- 185
A380.......................... B744.......................... A330.
215.18/ $229.7K.......... 204.93/ $218.8K......... 195.15/ $208.3K
Average O/T
46*.............................. 23.............................. 3.
Captain
Divisor and notes as per F/O
A380........................... B744............................ A330
326.07/ $348.1K........... 310.55/ $331.5K............ 295.76/ $315.7K
Average o/t
45*............................... 25.................................3.
* Note that the 380 o/t numbers will decrease dramatically when the 380 reverts to one LHR flight via SIN. Likely to be closer to 30.

Express Freighters Australia
B737 Captain - $161,038
B737 F/O - $104,074
B767 Captain - $185,764
B767 F/O - $127,387
Network / Qantaslink
A320 Capt $186,000
A320 F/) ?
F100 Captain - $165,000
F100 F/O - ?
E120 Captain - $85,000 (parked)
E120 F/O - $55,000 (parked)

Eastern / Sunnies / Qantaslink
Q400 Captain - $92,863
Q400 F/O - $60,361
Q300/Q200 Captain - $86,789
Q300/Q200 F/O - $56,466

Virgin Australia
VAI:
New pay for A330/B777 as follows:
Capt (+9.5% super)
July 17 $272,986 ($298,919)
July 18 $283,868 ($310,835)
July 19 $291,674 ($319,383)
FO (65% of Capt)
July 17 $177,440 ($194,287)
July 18 $184,513 ($202,042)
July 19 $198,588 ($207,598)
SO (53% of FO)
July 17 $94,043 ($102,977)
July 18 $97,792 ($107,082)
July 19 $100,481 ($110,027)
OT trigger at 75.25 hours per 28 day roster (at Capt $321/330/339hr, FO $209/215/221hr, SO $111/114/117 hr). Minimum credit guarantee of 5 hours for work on any day which includes paxing when in association with a flight duty pairing. Plus some other technicalities and adjustments.
New base rates for B737: (super not included)
Capt.
July 2017 $227,904
July 2018 $233,023
July 2019 $239,440
FO Level 1 / 2 / 3
July 2017 $125,347/$136,742/$148,138
July 2018 $128,167/$139,819/$151,471
July 2019 $131,692/$143,664/$155,637
OT trigger at 68.25 hrs per 28 day RP.

Skywest/VARA
A320 Captain - $165,000
A320 F/O - $107,250
F100 Captain - $128,848
F100 F/O - $83,751
F50 Captain - $97,244
F50 F/O - $63,209

TIGER/JETSTAR A320 RATES 2014
TIGER CAPTAIN
Base $171,000 + EFA $140 + Retention $10,000
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $181,000
682hrs $195,700
787hrs $210,000
900hrs $226,220

TIGER FO Level 3
Base $114,570 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $121,237
682hrs $128,587
787hrs $135,937
900hrs $143,847

JETSTAR FO Level 3
Base $106,222 + EFA $134,97 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $106,222
682hrs $106,222
787hrs $106,222
900hrs $121,473

TIGER FO Level 2
Base $109,440 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $116,107
682hrs $123,457
787hrs $130,807
900hrs $138,717

JETSTAR FO Level 2
Base $98,051 + EFA $124.59 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $98,051
682hrs $98,051
787hrs $98,051
900hrs $112,129

TIGER FO Level 1
Base $94,050 + EFA $70 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $94,050
682hrs $101,400
787hrs $108,750
900hrs $116,660

JETSTAR FO Level 1
Base $89,880 + EFA $114.21 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $89,880
682hrs $89,880
787hrs $89,880
900hrs $102,785

Strategic
A320 F/O - $113,000

Cobham
B717 Rates as of 1st July 2018
B717 Captain - $188,000
B717 F/O Yr 1-4 - $112,800
B717 F/O Yr 5+ - $122,200

BAe 146 Captain - $158,000*
BAe 146 F/O - $85,250 up to $100,750 after year 5
DHC-8 Captain - $78,255
DHC-8 F/O - $46,940
Coastwatch DHC-8 Captain ~ 130,000
Coastwatch DHC-8 F/O ~ 78,000

Alliance
F100 Captain - $122,675
F100 F/O - $82,819
F50 Captain ?
F50 F/O ?

RrrrrrrrrExxyyyyyy
Base rates years 1-10 as of July 1 2016
F/O 54,000 - 66,000
Capt 89,000 - 109,000
+2.5% per year until 2018

"The new Aero-Duck"
BAe Jetstream 32 Captain - $70,922
BAe Jetstream 32 F/O - $50,620

RFDS
QLD - B200, PC12, C208 Line pilot - Tier 1 $93784 Tier 2 $104817

Skippers
DHC-8 Captain -$120,000 + o/time!!!
DHC-8 F/O - $55,000*
E120 Captain - $88,816?
E120 F/O - $55,000*
SA227 Captain - $70,855
SA227 F/O - $42,537

Brindabella (R.I.P.)
J41 Captain - $69,000
J41 F/O - $46,000
Metro Captain - $57,000
Metro F/O - $38,000

Pionair BAE146

Airnorth
E170 Captain - 109,000
E170 F/O - 94,200
E120 Captain - ?
E120 F/O - ?
SA227 Captain - ?
SA227 F/O - ?

Skytrans
DHC-8 Captain - ?
DHC-8 F/O - ?

Sharp Aviation
Metro Cpt -?
metro FO - ?

Hardy's
Metro Captain - $75,000
Metro F/O - $52,000
C441 Captain - $70,000

Careflight
$122,000 + +

JETGO
ERJ135 Captain $122,000 plus allowances plus 10% Super
FO $75,000 plus same
Endorsement Salary sacrificed at around $35K over two years.

VANZ (previously Pac Blue)
Captain Level 1 $176,776
Captain Level 2 $185,772
Captain Level 3 $194,765
First Officer Level 1 $103,950
First Officer Level 2 $112,217
First Officer Level 3 $120,606

Air EnZid (NZD)
2018 year 1 pay rates
320
FO 117,898
CA 183,371
787-9
SO 105,323
FO 140,386
CA 218,348
777-300
SO 105,323
FO 164,396
CA 255,691

Jetconnect (NZD)
B737-800
Captain

From 20 Aug 18 to 14 Apr 19: Y1 $175,520 Y2 $185,524 Y3 $189,744
From 15 Apr 19 to 12 Apr 20: Y1 $179,908 Y2 $190,162 Y3 $194,487
From 13 Apr 20 to 11 Apr 21: Y1 $184,406 Y2 $194,916 Y3 $199,349

First Officers

From 20 Aug 18 to 14 Apr 19: Y1 $100,378 Y2 $111,314 Y3 $113,847
From 15 Apr 19 to 12 Apr 20: Y1 $102,887 Y2 $114,097 Y3 $116,693
From 13 Apr 20 to 11 Apr 21: Y1 $105,459 Y2 $116,949 Y3$119,610

Jitstar NZ (NZD)
A320
CA $170,000
FO $ 93,000

"Air No Got" (thanks NCD)
Salary and tax rates are in PGK (KINA) but paid in $AUD at the exchange rate of the day. All these figures are in $AUD having been converted at an indicative exchange rate of .40c
SALARY
DH8 Captain $110,295 First Officer $47,063
400 Captain $122,088 First Officer $74,949
F100 Captain $143,958 First Officer $99,955
737 Captain $163,544 First Officer $107,746
767 Captain $174,135 First Officer $127,072
SUPERANNUATION
Nil
TAX
PNG Kina Tax figure converted to $AUD at .40c.
Tax on $28,000 is $8,564 then 40% on every dollar over $28,000 up to $99,999.
Tax on $100, 000 is $37,364 and the 42% on every dollar over $100,00.
Eg: 737 Captain will GROSS $163, 544, pay TAX of $64, 052 and NET $99,492 ($AUD8,291 / $USD6,316 per mth) without any super paid by the Company.
To put the salary into perspective: Using the figures quoted at Post 213 and the online ATO tax calculator, the ERJ 135 Captain will net $AUD 88,913 and receive $12,000 in super, a total package to $100,913 ($1,421 pa more than the PX B737 Captain).

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Base pay is $82,000

Interesting to note that today JQ have opened an advanced cadet program for internal qantas group employees only for 787 S/O positions.

Itll be interesting to see who applies.

[Hold_Short]

Can anyone supply the pay scales for Qantas 787 flight crew?

[RampDog]

Ladies and Gentleman, sorry to drift off the core subject.
It always amazes me how the vested interests in airlines' managements can screw some of their most valuable assets on their T & Cs.

Senior Tech crew have invaluable experience, knowledge and commitment, the more junior crew members the commitment and capacity to gain all that experience and knowledge... no computer or program can be substituted in their place.

Work smart for what you believe in and negotiate hard for what you know you are worth to these businesses... back yourselves and be prepared to be as fearless as when you break the bonds of the earth and soar into the Stratosphere :ok:

Here's something to think about -
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sXf_o3y19LOny7wc2XOtrKgFamp7AOfS/view?usp=sharing

Full acknowledgement and all credit to video director Jakob Grunert for video images
Full acknowledgment and all credit to Dee Snider (Twisted Sister) written and performed "We're Not Going To Take It"

[wheels_down]

Jitstar NZ (NZD)
A320
CA $170,000
FO $ 93,000
Now that is truly terrible. Please tell me there is significant hourly flight pay on top of that.

[exfocx]

OMG, I think I'm gunna be sick! Christ, they talk about shiny jet syndrome, it should be whiny jet syndrome. Look at most science degrees and you get nowhere near the salary that a FO gets, let alone a captain. Don't get me wrong, don't hand it back to the company as management will only get an increased bonus, but don't whine about how hard you're doing it.

I've worked with a lot of intelligent people and they don't always make good pilots, but you'll get more who can train down as pilots than you'll train pilots up to any high end uni degree etc.

[Keg]

Can anyone supply the pay scales for Qantas 787 flight crew?




Qantas 787 as at 1 Jul 18. From date of check out.
....................Year 1........Year 2........ Year 3......... Year 4
Captain.......$327.82 .....$336.01....... $344.42...... $353.03

F/O............ $216.36.......$221.77...... $227.31..... $232.99

S/O........... $114.74.......$117.61.........$120.55.......$123.55

Min guarantee is 145hrs per bid period. Planning divisor is 155.

[boofta]

OMG, I think I'm gunna be sick! Christ, they talk about shiny jet syndrome, it should be whiny jet syndrome. Look at most science degrees and you get nowhere near the salary that a FO gets, let alone a captain. Don't get me wrong, don't hand it back to the company as management will only get an increased bonus, but don't whine about how hard you're doing it.

I've worked with a lot of intelligent people and they don't always make good pilots, but you'll get more who can train down as pilots than you'll train pilots up to any high end uni degree etc.
High end uni degrees
Yeah right
An extension of high school does not qualify you for much
You deserve more, you sometimes have to think
Try it at 1000 kph where you can die making the wrong decision
I have lectured at uni level and not noticed many that could train down to become pilots!

[Popgun]

Both arguments are irrelevant.

Pay is mainly determined by supply & demand and the effectiveness of negotiation.

PG

[Hold_Short]

Qantas 787 as at 1 Jul 18. From date of check out.
....................Year 1........Year 2........ Year 3......... Year 4
Captain.......$327.82 .....$336.01....... $344.42...... $353.03

F/O............ $216.36.......$221.77...... $227.31..... $232.99

S/O........... $114.74.......$117.61.........$120.55.......$123.55

Min guarantee is 145hrs per bid period. Planning divisor is 155.

Thanks Keg, appreciate the info. Is it my misunderstanding or is the min guarantee different for all fleets? I read in the CA the minimum guarantee is 160hrs for A380 etc, however the 787 is different at 145hrs?

[Transition Layer]

Yep that’s correct. Lower divisors on the 787 due to no night credits which inflates the credit for each trip on the “legacy” fleets.

The hourly rate on the 787 is basically equivalent to the 380 (at least in F/O and Capt ranks) to offset the lack of night credits and overtime.

It’s a touchy subject amongst QF crew and I’ll probably get shot down for this but personally I think the 787 pay and conditions are fair and reasonable.

[Popgun]

It’s a touchy subject amongst QF crew and I’ll probably get shot down for this but personally I think the 787 pay and conditions are fair and reasonable.

I think you could probably even stretch that definition to 'luxurious' when compared to the JQ 787 pay and conditions! :}

PG

[exfocx]

Boofta,

Thanks for the laugh. What "high end uni degree" lecturing were you doing. Hope you're not going to say Aviation Degree!

[bangbounceboeing]

Any QF 737 numbers available?

[Keg]

Any QF 737 numbers available?


Qantas 737 as at 1 Jul 17. From date of check out. I’ve needed to reverse engineer these to come up with the hourly rate so it may not be 100% precise but they’re close enough.
....................Year 1........Year 2........ Year 3......... Year 4
Captain.......$282 .........$289.60....... $297.23...... $304.85

F/O............ $180.47.......$185.35...... $190.23..... $195.10

Min guarantee is based upon 53:24 per BP, 13 BPs a year. Conservative Average about 70 hours per BP. These hours can vary between base and individual pilots. Some individuals have been averaging 90 hours per BP.

[exfocx]

dctPub,

I'll call bs on that. Most grads come out and earn crap, especially in IT. Re your comments on Arts, I'd take a Humanities grad over science any day and my guess is most Humanity grads would have better so called "critical thinking" skills by a long shot. The maths required for flying isn't even equivalent to yr 10: 3 x table, add and subtract (lmao) and all the physics behind flying is basic concepts that an afternoon can explain. I just love it when pilots start talking about "managing your energy".

[Keg]

QANTAS
Longhaul Min Guarantee is 160 hours and 6 1/2 rosters per year. Add 27.5 hours for mandatory training. 1067.5 hours.
Effective 1 Jul 18
Second Officer
A380.............................. B744.............................. A330
1. 91.58/ $97.6K..............1. 91.58/ $97.6K.............. 1. 91.58/ $97.6K.
2a. 98.01/ $104.6K...........2a. 98.01/ $104.6K........... 2a. 98.01/ $104.6K
2b. 126.22/ $134.7K.........2b. 120.21/ $128.3K.......... 2b. 114.51/ 122.2K
3. 132.89/ $141.9K...........3. 126.56/ $135.1K........... 3. 120.47/ $128.6K
Hourly rates go up 2-3% each year until year 12.
Individual fleet divisors may change. A330 currently 160. A380 currently 180.
Avg O/T per BP
50*...................................... 29.................................3
First Officer.
Using Year 12 rate only as that’s what they’re all on.
Using 160 min guarantee. Most divisors between 175- 185
A380.......................... B744.......................... A330.
215.18/ $229.7K.......... 204.93/ $218.8K......... 195.15/ $208.3K
Average O/T
46*.............................. 23.............................. 3.
Captain
Divisor and notes as per F/O
A380........................... B744............................ A330
326.07/ $348.1K........... 310.55/ $331.5K............ 295.76/ $315.7K
Average o/t
45*............................... 25.................................3.
* Note that the 380 o/t numbers will decrease dramatically when the 380 reverts to one LHR flight via SIN. Likely to be closer to 30.

Qantas 787 as at 1 Jul 18.
....................Year 1........Year 2........ Year 3......... Year 4
Captain.......$327.82 .....$336.01....... $344.42...... $353.03

F/O............ $216.36.......$221.77...... $227.31..... $232.99

S/O........... $114.74.......$117.61.........$120.55.......$123.55

Min guarantee is 145hrs per bid period. Planning divisor is 155. Additional 27.5 hours per year for training. Allowances additional.

Qantas 737 as at 1 Jul 17.
....................Year 1........Year 2........ Year 3......... Year 4
Captain.......$282 .........$289.60....... $297.23...... $304.85

F/O............ $180.47.......$185.35...... $190.23..... $195.10

Min guarantee is based upon 53:24 per BP, 13 BPs a year. Conservative Average about 70 hours per BP. These hours can vary between base and individual pilots. Some individuals have been averaging 90 hours per BP.

Hourly pay rates have been reverse engineered from a salary amount predicated on 694 hours per annum (including annual leave). May not be 100% precise but they’re close enough.

Express Freighters Australia
B737 Captain - $161,038
B737 F/O - $104,074
B767 Captain - $185,764
B767 F/O - $127,387
Network / Qantaslink
A320 Capt $186,000
A320 F/) ?
F100 Captain - $165,000
F100 F/O - ?
E120 Captain - $85,000 (parked)
E120 F/O - $55,000 (parked)

Eastern / Sunnies / Qantaslink
Q400 Captain - $92,863
Q400 F/O - $60,361
Q300/Q200 Captain - $86,789
Q300/Q200 F/O - $56,466

Virgin Australia
VAI:
New pay for A330/B777 as follows:
Capt (+9.5% super)
July 17 $272,986 ($298,919)
July 18 $283,868 ($310,835)
July 19 $291,674 ($319,383)
FO (65% of Capt)
July 17 $177,440 ($194,287)
July 18 $184,513 ($202,042)
July 19 $198,588 ($207,598)
SO (53% of FO)
July 17 $94,043 ($102,977)
July 18 $97,792 ($107,082)
July 19 $100,481 ($110,027)
OT trigger at 75.25 hours per 28 day roster (at Capt $321/330/339hr, FO $209/215/221hr, SO $111/114/117 hr). Minimum credit guarantee of 5 hours for work on any day which includes paxing when in association with a flight duty pairing. Plus some other technicalities and adjustments.
New base rates for B737: (super not included)
Capt.
July 2017 $227,904
July 2018 $233,023
July 2019 $239,440
FO Level 1 / 2 / 3
July 2017 $125,347/$136,742/$148,138
July 2018 $128,167/$139,819/$151,471
July 2019 $131,692/$143,664/$155,637
OT trigger at 68.25 hrs per 28 day RP.

Skywest/VARA
A320 Captain - $165,000
A320 F/O - $107,250
F100 Captain - $128,848
F100 F/O - $83,751
F50 Captain - $97,244
F50 F/O - $63,209

TIGER/JETSTAR A320 RATES 2014
TIGER CAPTAIN
Base $171,000 + EFA $140 + Retention $10,000
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $181,000
682hrs $195,700
787hrs $210,000
900hrs $226,220

TIGER FO Level 3
Base $114,570 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $121,237
682hrs $128,587
787hrs $135,937
900hrs $143,847

JETSTAR FO Level 3
Base $106,222 + EFA $134,97 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $106,222
682hrs $106,222
787hrs $106,222
900hrs $121,473

TIGER FO Level 2
Base $109,440 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $116,107
682hrs $123,457
787hrs $130,807
900hrs $138,717

JETSTAR FO Level 2
Base $98,051 + EFA $124.59 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $98,051
682hrs $98,051
787hrs $98,051
900hrs $112,129

TIGER FO Level 1
Base $94,050 + EFA $70 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $94,050
682hrs $101,400
787hrs $108,750
900hrs $116,660

JETSTAR FO Level 1
Base $89,880 + EFA $114.21 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $89,880
682hrs $89,880
787hrs $89,880
900hrs $102,785

Strategic
A320 F/O - $113,000

Cobham
B717 Rates as of 1st July 2018
B717 Captain - $188,000
B717 F/O Yr 1-4 - $112,800
B717 F/O Yr 5+ - $122,200

BAe 146 Captain - $158,000*
BAe 146 F/O - $85,250 up to $100,750 after year 5
DHC-8 Captain - $78,255
DHC-8 F/O - $46,940
Coastwatch DHC-8 Captain ~ 130,000
Coastwatch DHC-8 F/O ~ 78,000

Alliance
F100 Captain - $122,675
F100 F/O - $82,819
F50 Captain ?
F50 F/O ?

RrrrrrrrrExxyyyyyy
Base rates years 1-10 as of July 1 2016
F/O 54,000 - 66,000
Capt 89,000 - 109,000
+2.5% per year until 2018

"The new Aero-Duck"
BAe Jetstream 32 Captain - $70,922
BAe Jetstream 32 F/O - $50,620

RFDS
QLD - B200, PC12, C208 Line pilot - Tier 1 $93784 Tier 2 $104817

Skippers
DHC-8 Captain -$120,000 + o/time!!!
DHC-8 F/O - $55,000*
E120 Captain - $88,816?
E120 F/O - $55,000*
SA227 Captain - $70,855
SA227 F/O - $42,537

Brindabella (R.I.P.)
J41 Captain - $69,000
J41 F/O - $46,000
Metro Captain - $57,000
Metro F/O - $38,000

Pionair BAE146

Airnorth
E170 Captain - 109,000
E170 F/O - 94,200
E120 Captain - ?
E120 F/O - ?
SA227 Captain - ?
SA227 F/O - ?

Skytrans
DHC-8 Captain - ?
DHC-8 F/O - ?

Sharp Aviation
Metro Cpt -?
metro FO - ?

Hardy's
Metro Captain - $75,000
Metro F/O - $52,000
C441 Captain - $70,000

Careflight
$122,000 + +

JETGO
ERJ135 Captain $122,000 plus allowances plus 10% Super
FO $75,000 plus same
Endorsement Salary sacrificed at around $35K over two years.

VANZ (previously Pac Blue)
Captain Level 1 $176,776
Captain Level 2 $185,772
Captain Level 3 $194,765
First Officer Level 1 $103,950
First Officer Level 2 $112,217
First Officer Level 3 $120,606

Air EnZid (NZD)
2018 year 1 pay rates
320
FO 117,898
CA 183,371
787-9
SO 105,323
FO 140,386
CA 218,348
777-300
SO 105,323
FO 164,396
CA 255,691

Jetconnect (NZD)
B737-800
Captain

From 20 Aug 18 to 14 Apr 19: Y1 $175,520 Y2 $185,524 Y3 $189,744
From 15 Apr 19 to 12 Apr 20: Y1 $179,908 Y2 $190,162 Y3 $194,487
From 13 Apr 20 to 11 Apr 21: Y1 $184,406 Y2 $194,916 Y3 $199,349

First Officers

From 20 Aug 18 to 14 Apr 19: Y1 $100,378 Y2 $111,314 Y3 $113,847
From 15 Apr 19 to 12 Apr 20: Y1 $102,887 Y2 $114,097 Y3 $116,693
From 13 Apr 20 to 11 Apr 21: Y1 $105,459 Y2 $116,949 Y3$119,610

Jitstar NZ (NZD)
A320
CA $170,000
FO $ 93,000

"Air No Got" (thanks NCD)
Salary and tax rates are in PGK (KINA) but paid in $AUD at the exchange rate of the day. All these figures are in $AUD having been converted at an indicative exchange rate of .40c
SALARY
DH8 Captain $110,295 First Officer $47,063
400 Captain $122,088 First Officer $74,949
F100 Captain $143,958 First Officer $99,955
737 Captain $163,544 First Officer $107,746
767 Captain $174,135 First Officer $127,072
SUPERANNUATION
Nil
TAX
PNG Kina Tax figure converted to $AUD at .40c.
Tax on $28,000 is $8,564 then 40% on every dollar over $28,000 up to $99,999.
Tax on $100, 000 is $37,364 and the 42% on every dollar over $100,00.
Eg: 737 Captain will GROSS $163, 544, pay TAX of $64, 052 and NET $99,492 ($AUD8,291 / $USD6,316 per mth) without any super paid by the Company.
To put the salary into perspective: Using the figures quoted at Post 213 and the online ATO tax calculator, the ERJ 135 Captain will net $AUD 88,913 and receive $12,000 in super, a total package to $100,913 ($1,421 pa more than the PX B737 Captain).

[Berealgetreal]

I’ve done a stint of a year or more in Humanities, Science and Aviation degrees while I sorted myself out and saved the money to pay for my licence and degree. I found the Science the hardest, Aviation in the middle and Humanities the least difficult. Humanities was full of drop kicks and didn’t take half an effort.

Anyway, I think 90k for an FO on a Jet with 200 people behind him/her is pathetic as well. It is what it is and ultimately there will forever be an endless supply of children wanting to dress up and walk through the terminal thinking it looks cool. It soon wears off and before you know it the a disinterested child becomes a disinterested adult occupying both seats. You get what you pay for, my family will only be flying the top 5 carriers so I’m not concerned about burning in a smoking wreck. Besides they reckon pilotless aircraft are coming aren’t they?

[HighFives]

Kegs nice work on your info, just to add my two cents..reference Jetstar Oz EBA 2015, everybody's fortunately earning somewhat more, albeit at 75hr block months for the most part.

A320 Level 1 Capt base 200k
A320 Level 1 FO base 110k
787 SO base 82k

All plus duty or layover allowances on top, which vary across each base.

Anyone wanting numbers across any airlines, just check out Fairwork Commission website - all CURRENT EBA's listed, straight from the horses mouth.

[43Inches]

Thought I might dredge this up since there's been so much upheaval in the last two years it might be worth those in the know doing an update.

[davidclarke]

EFA hasn’t changed, as the eba has expired 3 years ago. It’s now many $1000s below the air pilot award.

[SHVC]

We are still on 2017 rates which were low to begin with so….ah well.

[DUXNUTZ]

Interested in current VA rates.

[Roj approved]

It can be found via the AFAP website if you are a member, I can’t seem to find it on the Fairwork site

The basics are:

57.5 hours Minimum guarantee per roster period

13 rosters per year

747.5hrs/year

$268/hr for Capt = $200,330 pa

$174/hr for F/O = $130,065 Pa

[fastflaps40]

Anyone know what REX 737 pay scales are?

[unobtanium]

Anyone know what REX 737 pay scales are?

Look up the award, wouldn't of be far off.

[Tabasco James]

Look up the award, wouldn't of be far off.

Either way you look at it, those VA rates….terrible…and the others for that matter, compounding losses in an era of increasing inflation. You guys are worth far more.

[Mr Proach]

OMG, I think I'm gunna be sick! Christ, they talk about shiny jet syndrome, it should be whiny jet syndrome. Look at most science degrees and you get nowhere near the salary that a FO gets, let alone a captain. Don't get me wrong, don't hand it back to the company as management will only get an increased bonus, but don't whine about how hard you're doing it.
I've worked with a lot of intelligent people and they don't always make good pilots, but you'll get more who can train down as pilots than you'll train pilots up to any high end uni degree etc.

Academia is not benchmark here. Every-time a pilot takes to the sky he/she has an incalculable amount of rules and regulations which form a very firm (potentially life changing)noose around his/her neck. Pilots are scrutinised and monitored like no other profession on the planet. Many are paid very low wages and treated like absolute sh*t until they gain their first liveable pay and unless (in my day) you have wealthy parents or join the forces then all the education expenses come out of your own pocket (no gov't loans or handouts). Then there is the element of responsibility, these highly intelligent people you reference may be able to write a thesis on a smart phone while waiting is a fast food queue which is incredibly impressive but carries no real responsibility. In the aviation world one small error can lead to the loss of many lives and millions upon millions of dollars of equipment. Do you think that is worth something? Do you think that "responsibility" maybe the reason why Air traffic Controllers' salaries at busy airports base are circa 250K/year? Are your highly intelligent persons' every move continuously monitored? Are they subjected to continuous rigorous testing? Do they have to fill out detailed reports for every minor deviation that occurs in the course of their job. When you have a few spare months work your way through the labyrinth of aviation regulations and you will find all responsibility ultimately falls on the pilot. Then add to that a few thousand pages of equipment and procedural operating manuals all of which pilots are required to carry in their heads such that it can be instantly recalled whilst operating a highly complex piece of machinery in a three dimensional environment during a highly stressful event. Your comments do have some validity to the extent that pilots may not be the smartest people around because who would take on the level of responsibility, accountability and scrutiny for the peanuts that pilots are paid.

[KRviator]

Makes me glad I gave it away. :sad:

By comparison, as a Pilbara train driver - for one of the lower paying companies of the 4 up there, mind you - I have the option of one of the following gross salaries depending on roster:
2 weeks on / 4 weeks off: $114,000
2 weeks on / 2 weeks off: $165,000
2 weeks on / 1 week off: $232,500

Any production and/or safety bonuses are additional to the above and 9.5% super is paid on top of both gross & bonuses. You're also entitled to 12 weeks personal leave in any 12 month period (though that includes RDO's, so if you're 2/4 for example, it's basically two complete roster periods).

Most FIFO blokes are on 2/2, a few - including me - prioritize family time and have gone 2/4 . A Residential employee on an identical base rate working an even time (4 days on / 4 days off) roster would be on $180K gross, given the different allowances.

[Ladloy]

Makes me glad I gave it away. :sad:

By comparison, as a Pilbara train driver - for one of the lower paying companies of the 4 up there, mind you - I have the option of one of the following gross salaries depending on roster:
2 weeks on / 4 weeks off: $114,000
2 weeks on / 2 weeks off: $165,000
2 weeks on / 1 week off: $232,500

Any production and/or safety bonuses are additional to the above and 9.5% super is paid on top of both gross & bonuses. You're also entitled to 12 weeks personal leave in any 12 month period (though that includes RDO's, so if you're 2/4 for example, it's basically two complete roster periods).

Most FIFO blokes are on 2/2, a few - including me - prioritize family time and have gone 2/4 . A Residential employee on an identical base rate, working an even time (4 days on / 4 days off) roster would be on $180K gross, given the different allowances.
sign me up?

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Academia is not benchmark here. Every-time a pilot takes to the sky he/she has an incalculable amount of rules and regulations which form a very firm (potentially life changing)noose around his/her neck. Pilots are scrutinised and monitored like no other profession on the planet. Many are paid very low wages and treated like absolute sh*t until they gain their first liveable pay and unless (in my day) you have wealthy parents or join the forces then all the education expenses come out of your own pocket (no gov't loans or handouts). Then there is the element of responsibility, these highly intelligent people you reference may be able to write a thesis on a smart phone while waiting is a fast food queue which is incredibly impressive but carries no real responsibility. In the aviation world one small error can lead to the loss of many lives and millions upon millions of dollars of equipment. Do you think that is worth something? Do you think that "responsibility" maybe the reason why Air traffic Controllers' salaries at busy airports base are circa 250K/year? Are your highly intelligent persons' every move continuously monitored? Are they subjected to continuous rigorous testing? Do they have to fill out detailed reports for every minor deviation that occurs in the course of their job. When you have a few spare months work your way through the labyrinth of aviation regulations and you will find all responsibility ultimately falls on the pilot. Then add to that a few thousand pages of equipment and procedural operating manuals all of which pilots are required to carry in their heads such that it can be instantly recalled whilst operating a highly complex piece of machinery in a three dimensional environment during a highly stressful event. Your comments do have some validity to the extent that pilots may not be the smartest people around because who would take on the level of responsibility, accountability and scrutiny for the peanuts that pilots are paid.

BINGO!

The thing that holds us all back is the fact that what we do is not classed as a profession. This is despite us having to have formal qualifications (albeit non-university) and having all the currency and proficiency requirements, and carrying more responsibility than any other “profession” I can think of. There are few single pieces of machinery that are as expensive or complex as a jet, and none that I can think of that can contain many hundreds of lives which can be snuffed out so easily in the blink of an eye. Yet what we do is viewed as a hobby that got out of proportion rather than what it is. Airline managers have fooled regulators and the public alike into believing that all we do is sit there while something else does our job for us, and they’ve never been corrected. It is curious then that when one of us fails to intervene when the automation has a melt down, it becomes pilot error. The corporate belief that people are expensive and that the true genius lies in the boardroom has been allowed to permeate the public conscious at all levels, unabated. Nothing will change until we change it and have our profession viewed as such.

The only thing that separates me from a great brain surgeon (for example) is: if I screw up more than one person dies of which I am probably one, if other people screw up more than one person dies of which I am probably one, I can bring an entire airline down with one tiny mistake, a decision I make at 8nm per minute can cost hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars, and I deal with that responsibility all day every day while earning less than half that of a brain surgeon (for example). Airline pilot needs to be recognised as a profession and until then, we will live cap in hand and at the mercy of some accountant……which is classed as a profession.

[brokenagain]

Makes me glad I gave it away. https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/puppy_dog_eyes.gif

By comparison, as a Pilbara train driver - for one of the lower paying companies of the 4 up there, mind you - I have the option of one of the following gross salaries depending on roster:
2 weeks on / 4 weeks off: $114,000
2 weeks on / 2 weeks off: $165,000
2 weeks on / 1 week off: $232,500

Any production and/or safety bonuses are additional to the above and 9.5% super is paid on top of both gross & bonuses. You're also entitled to 12 weeks personal leave in any 12 month period (though that includes RDO's, so if you're 2/4 for example, it's basically two complete roster periods).

Most FIFO blokes are on 2/2, a few - including me - prioritize family time and have gone 2/4 . A Residential employee on an identical base rate working an even time (4 days on / 4 days off) roster would be on $180K gross, given the different allowances.


Which is all great…..if you want to drive trains. You seem obsessed with telling everyone how good you have it driving a train and how glad you are that you gave flying away. Good for you! Everyone I know who managed to get a job on the trains during covid is back flying now, even with the pay cut. Are you sure you’re not looking for the Professional Train Drivers Rumour Network?

[neville_nobody]

Look at most science degrees and you get nowhere near the salary that a FO gets,



Well depends on what you are doing though, if you have a Maths/computing/finance type of science degree you are going to beat most pilots in a career. You are also generally promoted into management where you start getting paid big money. You can’t compare a graduate’s salary to a airline FO because you don’t walk off the street into a FO seat. Compare someone with a science degree and 10 years experience with the FO and see what the comparison is.

[WillieTheWimp]

AJ has a STEM degree and he gets paid more than me...I think!

[turbantime]

Makes me glad I gave it away. :sad:

By comparison, as a Pilbara train driver - for one of the lower paying companies of the 4 up there, mind you - I have the option of one of the following gross salaries depending on roster:
2 weeks on / 4 weeks off: $114,000
2 weeks on / 2 weeks off: $165,000
2 weeks on / 1 week off: $232,500

Any production and/or safety bonuses are additional to the above and 9.5% super is paid on top of both gross & bonuses. You're also entitled to 12 weeks personal leave in any 12 month period (though that includes RDO's, so if you're 2/4 for example, it's basically two complete roster periods).

Most FIFO blokes are on 2/2, a few - including me - prioritize family time and have gone 2/4 . A Residential employee on an identical base rate working an even time (4 days on / 4 days off) roster would be on $180K gross, given the different allowances.
No wonder your industry is under threat. Trains would have to be one of the easiest machines to automate.

[Mr Proach]

Makes me glad I gave it away. :sad:

By comparison, as a Pilbara train driver - for one of the lower paying companies of the 4 up there, mind you - I have the option of one of the following gross salaries depending on roster:
2 weeks on / 4 weeks off: $114,000
2 weeks on / 2 weeks off: $165,000
2 weeks on / 1 week off: $232,500

Any production and/or safety bonuses are additional to the above and 9.5% super is paid on top of both gross & bonuses. You're also entitled to 12 weeks personal leave in any 12 month period (though that includes RDO's, so if you're 2/4 for example, it's basically two complete roster periods).

Most FIFO blokes are on 2/2, a few - including me - prioritize family time and have gone 2/4 . A Residential employee on an identical base rate working an even time (4 days on / 4 days off) roster would be on $180K gross, given the different allowances.
How many of you are members of the union?

[KRviator]

Which is all great…..if you want to drive trains. You seem obsessed with telling everyone how good you have it driving a train and how glad you are that you gave flying away. Not really. No more so than the broken record of pilots here whining about the "race to the bottom", but failing to actually do anything about it. Google reports there's 6,500 individual posts on 'Prune with that phrase and you think I'm the one obsessed with spruiking something? :rolleyes:

What I have tried to to is give a factual and potentially reasonable alternative career option should someone have had a gutful of CAsA, sim checks and being told to take your shoes and belt off going through security only to then have a crash axe and be in control of a 60-tonne weapon loaded with 10 tonnes of flammable liquid at their disposal as soon as they step on board - and that option being something that can offer a more-than-livable salary with the benefit of only working 6 months of the year and with a roster that you can look at 2,5,8 years out and know if you're working your kids birthday or NYE...

Everyone I know who managed to get a job on the trains during covid is back flying now, even with the pay cut. Given it takes anywhere from 18 months to three years to qualify as a Driver in your own right depending who you work for, yet the Covid disruptions have been with us for barely two, notwithstanding most every trainee Driver's role having hundreds if not a thousand or more applications, I'm calling bollocks on that claim.

No wonder your industry is under threat. Trains would have to be of the easiest machines to automate.Suburban & highspeed passenger no argument there. It's been done worldwide including the Sydney Metro Freight? Not a chance. The RoI isn't there. Rio Tinto did do it - after spending several billion dollars to do so, and have now found they cannot get qualified Driver's to work there because of their robots. On the other hand BHP is currently recruiting 200 trainee Driver's for their Pilbara operation. Aurizon recently took on 150 Qualified Driver's for their WA operation and Sydney Trains has recently undertaken a bulk trainee intake for both Suburban and Intercity working. Not exactly what I'd call under threat...:ugh:

How many of you are members of the union?On the east coast, I believe it was around 85-90%, in the Pilbara not as many, perhaps 30-35% but that is rapidly increasing with the CFMEU making inroads and the likes of Rio & BHP negotiating EBA's.

[Dookie on Drums]

I did a search but was unsuccessful in trying to gather information with regards to payscales for the Cobham E190 operation.

Could someone be kind enough and share this information and possibly an example of a typical roster?

TIA.

[backspace]

I did a search but was unsuccessful in trying to gather information with regards to payscales for the Cobham E190 operation.

Could someone be kind enough and share this information and possibly an example of a typical roster?

TIA.

Go to the FWC website and search for National Jet Pilots agreement. Cobham rebranded NJS and the agreement stayed the same with a cover letter.

[Icarus2001]

I think you are confusing NJS and NJE (Jetex). The E190 is on the NJE AOC not NJS.

[Chronic Snoozer]

I did a search but was unsuccessful in trying to gather information with regards to payscales for the Cobham E190 operation.

Could someone be kind enough and share this information and possibly an example of a typical roster?

TIA.

If it helps.

E Jet agreement (https://www.fwc.gov.au/document-search/view/aHR0cHM6Ly9zYXNyY2RhdGFwcmRhdWVhYS5ibG9iLmNvcmUud2luZG93cy5u ZXQvZW50ZXJwcmlzZWFncmVlbWVudHMvMjAxOS81L2FlNTAwODg3LTIucGRm 0/3/d6058ed2-3504-4acd-89cd-147f91bb0bcb/NJE%24%24award)

[Dookie on Drums]

If it helps.

E Jet agreement (https://www.fwc.gov.au/document-search/view/aHR0cHM6Ly9zYXNyY2RhdGFwcmRhdWVhYS5ibG9iLmNvcmUud2luZG93cy5u ZXQvZW50ZXJwcmlzZWFncmVlbWVudHMvMjAxOS81L2FlNTAwODg3LTIucGRm 0/3/d6058ed2-3504-4acd-89cd-147f91bb0bcb/NJE%24%24award)

That's great thank you. Is there anyone else who can divulge roster life, hours etc?

[backspace]

I think you are confusing NJS and NJE (Jetex). The E190 is on the NJE AOC not NJS.

Correct, Sorry

[PPRuNeUser0184]

Not really. No more so than the broken record of pilots here whining about the "race to the bottom", but failing to actually do anything about it. Google reports there's 6,500 individual posts on 'Prune with that phrase and you think I'm the one obsessed with spruiking something? :rolleyes:

What I have tried to to is give a factual and potentially reasonable alternative career option should someone have had a gutful of CAsA, sim checks and being told to take your shoes and belt off going through security only to then have a crash axe and be in control of a 60-tonne weapon loaded with 10 tonnes of flammable liquid at their disposal as soon as they step on board - and that option being something that can offer a more-than-livable salary with the benefit of only working 6 months of the year and with a roster that you can look at 2,5,8 years out and know if you're working your kids birthday or NYE...

Given it takes anywhere from 18 months to three years to qualify as a Driver in your own right depending who you work for, yet the Covid disruptions have been with us for barely two, notwithstanding most every trainee Driver's role having hundreds if not a thousand or more applications, I'm calling bollocks on that claim.

Suburban & highspeed passenger no argument there. It's been done worldwide including the Sydney Metro Freight? Not a chance. The RoI isn't there. Rio Tinto did do it - after spending several billion dollars to do so, and have now found they cannot get qualified Driver's to work there because of their robots. On the other hand BHP is currently recruiting 200 trainee Driver's for their Pilbara operation. Aurizon recently took on 150 Qualified Driver's for their WA operation and Sydney Trains has recently undertaken a bulk trainee intake for both Suburban and Intercity working. Not exactly what I'd call under threat...:ugh:

On the east coast, I believe it was around 85-90%, in the Pilbara not as many, perhaps 30-35% but that is rapidly increasing with the CFMEU making inroads and the likes of Rio & BHP negotiating EBA's.

2 weeks away at a time from family in the middle of nowhere driving trains.........no thanks.

[Trojan1981]

2 weeks away at a time from family in the middle of nowhere driving trains.........no thanks.

I actually don't see the difference. These are the same job: Operator, Machinery, One of. Train driving is probably less stressful and more secure.

Any monkey can operate a RPT aircraft or drive a train (and do, I worked with plenty in both industries). Flight crew roles, like most machinery operator jobs, are being automated to the point where the employee's value-add is no longer that critical (hence the QF academy cadets!). This is also driven by the drive to reduce the cost base (and maximise thin margins) by minimising service. Where value add is low, salaries and conditions decline.

Goods railways service industries that have much higher margins and are more economically critical than aviation (as COVID proved). Automating them, like automating ships, is extremely problematic. Regardless, I've done both and moved on so I don't really care. The aviation industry conditions are only going to get worse over time. Don't like it, stop whinging, get educated and find something else to do. Stop being the polar bear on a shrinking iceberg pretending yours was the best choice.

[t_cas]

Being a pilot is not just about operating machinery. That is way off the mark.

Put simply. If pilots “operated” like the ceos and ever growing managerial “support”, well, let’s be realistic. Trains, buses and boats would be more reliable.

[JoeTripodi]

Don’t listen to Trojan, he is just a bitter failed pilot.

[Icarus2001]

Flight crew roles, like most machinery operator jobs, are being automated Yes seeing many many single pilot jet RPT aircraft around the world.

What are you smoking?

We don’t even have MANY automated trains inAustralia, or the world and you think pilots will be automated out any time soon…dreaming.

[KRviator]

Yes seeing many many single pilot jet RPT aircraft around the world.

What are you smoking?

We don’t even have MANY automated trains in Australia, or the world and you think pilots will be automated out any time soon…dreaming.You don't...Yet...But where are the Navigators, Radio Operators, FE's? All "Essential" roles in aviation right up until they weren't. Same as Guards on trains, or the Coey there too. Some jurisdictions still have them, a lot don't. Single-Pilot airliners are not as far away as you would think, after-all what is the fundamental difference in operating a single-pilot business jet vs a single-pilot certified airliner? In RPT roles, perhaps where the passengers would naturally baulk at it, but freighters? I'd be surprised if they aren't around by the end of the decade, and certainly by 2040.

You only have to look at Airbus with their demonstrator A350, Garmin with their certified Auto-return system for things like the CirrusJet, or TBM to see the advancements in technology are there to allow it to happen. When regulators will approve it is the only remaining question...

[Icarus2001]

Single-Pilot airliners are not as far away as you would think, after-all what is the fundamental difference in operating a single-pilot business jet vs a single-pilot certified airliner?

Yes, they are a l o o o ng way off.
The difference, certification rules and about 150 plus people down the back who want someone up the front engaged in getting there safely, even if one is incapacitated.
If automation is so READY then why do we only have Autoland which has been around forever but no auto take off? Ponder that.

[No Idea Either]

Fully autonomous cars have been the ‘tech’ promise for the last 20 years, always saying ‘autonomous vehicles will be here in 10 years’. I’m still waiting. Autonomous vehicles will be here…..eventually…..2050 for a full autonomous vehicle I reckon. Autonomous heavy jet ops………another 50 years at least. Main stream quantum computing or a real AI able to actually make a decision will be needed first, not just a coded response to an inflight situation. As mentioned, auto land has been around for a while yet even that is still a two person operation. Not really up on the small/ business jet ops, but IIRC the only single pilot light jet ops are wee little fellas up to about 5-8 seats….just my two cents worth..

[SixDemonBag]

The biggest hurdle is insurance.

Autonomous vehicles mean the onus will predominantly be on the Manufacturer’s, not the airline operating them. You have taken the airline-trained human element out.

[tossbag]

Single-Pilot airliners are not as far away as you would think

Ya dreamin' mate. Won't happen in my lifetime, granted, I'm an older bastard, but I'll be around for another 30 years.

[ElZilcho]

You don't...Yet...But where are the Navigators, Radio Operators, FE's? All "Essential" roles in aviation right up until they weren't. Same as Guards on trains, or the Coey there too. Some jurisdictions still have them, a lot don't. Single-Pilot airliners are not as far away as you would think, after-all what is the fundamental difference in operating a single-pilot business jet vs a single-pilot certified airliner? In RPT roles, perhaps where the passengers would naturally baulk at it, but freighters? I'd be surprised if they aren't around by the end of the decade, and certainly by 2040.

You only have to look at Airbus with their demonstrator A350, Garmin with their certified Auto-return system for things like the CirrusJet, or TBM to see the advancements in technology are there to allow it to happen. When regulators will approve it is the only remaining question...

Single Pilot Cruise isn't far off I agree. But that's a relatively small step from where we are right now, compared to the mammoth leap to Single Pilot ops entirely.

-edit-

While I'm here, I'll update the Air NZ (ALPA) rates.
You start earning notional Command Pay after 6 years, so many A320 Captains will be on less than Year 12 but would be very rare on the Widebody's (takes 18 years to reach Year 12 Command Pay and ~24 years average to a WB Command).
Incentive Pay kicks in above 60hrs per roster with step increases at 75 and 90hrs.

Second Officer:

Year 1: $114,528
Year 8: $146,500

A320 First Officer:

Year 1: $128,202
Year 8: $163,991

B787-9 First Officer (These should increase with deliveries of the -10's)

Year 1: $152,656
Year 8: $195,271

B777-300 First Officer (Formerly a blended rate between the -300 and -200's)

Year 1:$178,764
Year 8: $228,668

A320 Captain:

Year 1: $199,397
Year 12: $255,637

Boeing 787 Captain:

Year 12: $304,398

Boeing 777-300 Captain:

Year 12: $356,458

[jasonrf]

Does anyone know the current wage situation with Qantas etc...with their new EBAs?

[Icarus2001]

So is that in NZD?

[RustyFlyerBoy]

Any idea about A321 rates at Express Freighters?

[RustyFlyerBoy]

Am I understanding this right???

From the first post on this thread back in April 2011 the following appears:Qantaslink
Q400 Captain - $92,863
Q400 F/O - $60,361
From the most recent long list posted Jan 2019, this appears:

Eastern / Sunnies / Qantaslink
Q400 Captain - $92,863
Q400 F/O - $60,361

So these guys (among many others - just chosen them as an example) haven't seen an increase since 2011? Are they getting anything else besides this 'headline figure'?

[C441]

Am I understanding this right???
No.
A quick look at the Fairwork website will give you an idea what any of the airline EA's are paying. Here's the Sunnie's 2019 Agreement (https://www.fwc.gov.au/document-search/view/aHR0cHM6Ly9zYXNyY2RhdGFwcmRhdWVhYS5ibG9iLmNvcmUud2luZG93cy5u ZXQvZW50ZXJwcmlzZWFncmVlbWVudHMvMjAyMS8xMC9hZTUxMzYwOC5wZGY1/3/384a03e7-3b04-40d7-bd96-f058d022ee5a/qantaslink%24%24pilot).
Skip down to part 4 and have a look at the table there.

[Chocks Away]

Yes Rusty C441 gave you the right link.
This List is meant to operate as a type of self-help system for everyone.
If your airline isn't there or has old data, go ahead and add yours too (even if it's just your fleet) but do it to the whole list i.e. go back to the last full list and Copy it and paste it with your additions.
Simples.
Happy Landings :ok:

[Chadzat]

I started this thread 11 years ago (hard to believe!) and have long since given up doing the leg work to update based on new FWC documents.

As Chocks Away said - if people are inclined to then they can update with accurate figures based on their eba/airline.

as an aside - it is interesting to see how far some pilot groups have come in advancing their terms in 11 years, and some have stagnated and some have nearly returned to early ‘teens levels!

[davidclarke]

Any idea about A321 rates at Express Freighters?

From Jan 2023

Captain $196,946

FO $127,523

This may not be exact but it’s what I calculated based on the new 3% wage policy and includes the 5% bonus that is guaranteed.

[bb_turn]

Its pretty embarrassing right....

[PoppaJo]

Some of these A320 loco’s up in Asia are starting to creep up on some of these numbers.

A Level 3-5 Air Asia FO is right behind and a Captain is sitting at those numbers. Back in the day they sat about 40% behind.

[davidclarke]

Its pretty embarrassing right....

It’s embarrassingly embarrassing.

[Transition Layer]

And that’s after a recent pay rise!

Plus EFA is mostly horrible back of the clock, 2 Pilot, with occasional hotel day rest etc. Gotta be worth an extra 20% just for those factors alone :bored:

[Jbrownie]

Can we look at getting a full update on all these figures please?

[big buddah]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/568x1286/c24ce019_fe16_4db3_8499_6c0e0205df35_4ff66e890beb270bc0a4076 44ec69fa83720a46b.png
2021 end of year US data.
2022 coming soon!

[DropYourSocks]

2021 end of year US data.
2022 coming soon!

For those playing along at home, any of the above numbers you see from someone with 4-5 years seniority in their company, those numbers are likely pretty standard for most at that level to achieve. The ridiculously big numbers you see are outliers, and require serious effort (and seniority) to game their system to make it work. Not impossible, but improbable for most to achieve.

Big Buddah, nice work on collating that data. I'm looking forward to seeing how 2022 panned out.

[get_involved]

For those playing along at home, any of the above numbers you see from someone with 4-5 years seniority in their company, those numbers are likely pretty standard for most at that level to achieve. The ridiculously big numbers you see are outliers, and require serious effort (and seniority) to game their system to make it work. Not impossible, but improbable for most to achieve.

Big Buddah, nice work on collating that data. I'm looking forward to seeing how 2022 panned out.

The data Big Buddah posted above was collected through voluntary unchecked submissions on airlinepilotcentral. It's all "on your honor" and people here in the US just feel the need to brag to strangers on the web. Sad. Generally speaking, take the hourly rate and multiply by 1000. That'll give you a ballpark number on what pilots make at their respective airline, fleet and seat. And then there are those who hustle hard, work the system and exploit loopholes in the working contract and can earn 1500-2000x their hourly rate in a year. I hustled in 2022 and earned about 1560x my hourly rate.

Assuming the Legacy carriers are able to sign new contracts with their pilots the 2022 numbers will probably look tame compared to the 2023 numbers coming out in a year. Retro/signing bonuses getting paid out, new higher hourly rates and profit sharing payouts. Could be a wild next 12-24 months for the pilots here in the US.

[umop apisdn]

and people here in the US just feel the need to brag to strangers on the web. Sad.



It literally comes from a thread asking people what they make. The intent as I see it is designed to be comparative against other airlines, and to include what kind of quality of life goes along with x amount of money.

America and Americans have their problems for sure, but to post on an Australian pilot forum that Americans have humility issues is a special kind of special.

There is a reason why we have the Austranaut reputation all over the world.

[get_involved]

It literally comes from a thread asking people what they make. The intent as I see it is designed to be comparative against other airlines, and to include what kind of quality of life goes along with x amount of money.


Right. Coming to these boards and comparing salaries, hourly rates, QOL provisions, and benefits between pilots of different airlines help us as a whole to work toward better treatment and pay in the workplace.

But the "loudest voices in the room," a percentage of pilots who take the time to log in and type in their stats/share data on these boards, I don't think it provides a true representative sample of what a person can reasonably expect at xyz company. I don't suspect there is too much falsifying of numbers, but I do take the numbers posted on the airline pilot forums 2022 annual salary thread (where the original 2021 salary spreadsheet of data referenced above was taken from) with a grain of salt. It's hard to look at some posts and not suspect it's a "Look how little I worked for how much pay!" brag.

As an American, this is the only source I've found on the web where Oz/NZ pilot pay rates/salaries are posted for public viewing. I find it fascinating and enjoy coming back occasionally to see how my colleagues across the pacific are doing. Looking forward to the EOY numbers for 2022, if that happens. Cheers.

[Chocks Away]

I'd dare say there are some figures on the Aust / NZ list to revise, as a few EBA's have gone through and new players around.
In this current crewing shortfall it's a good rough briefing tool to help see where the T's & C's have or are improving not only here but globally.
Feel free to Copy and paste the full list above with updates you may have and lets get some of these jobs up off the canvass.

Happy Landings :ok:

[Hollywood1]

From Jetstar's latest EBA

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/927x831/jq_eba_28c061543c38ff18a2a951441f8a10d85550939d.png

[ScepticalOptomist]

Salary without hours worked isn’t very meaningful. Context is required to make any meaningful comparison.

[43Inches]

Salary without hours worked isn’t very meaningful. Context is required to make any meaningful comparison.

I'd be hoping they're at least capable of $100k in additions for less than 1000 hours per year, otherwise compared to living expenses that has to be the worst airline pay rate in the world for the size of aircraft. Also 3% incremental when CPI is running at 7+ %. So far they have lost 4% salary for the first and possibly second year, and who knows how much if CPI stays up for a few years. Another good bonus for Mr CEO I would suggest, taken directly from the wages of the crew.

[Take1]

Alliance from September 1st (F100/Ejet) 6% CPI increase

CA: $186491
FO: $128679
Productivity CA: $332
Productivity FO: $210
RPT Bonus: CA $790 / FO $545 (F100 only not Ejet)

Alliance Current

CA: $175935
FO: $121395
Productivity CA: $313
Productivity FO: $198
RPT Bonus: CA $838 / FO $578 (F100 only not Ejet)

Productivity kicks in at 55 hours, most CA doing at least 80-90 hours a month and FO lucky to do 55 hours

Contract negotiations currently underway for Queensland based crew

[framer]

How does the RPT bonus work?

[Gnadenburg]

Contract negotiations currently underway for Queensland based crew

Does Alliance separate contracts on base? Incidentally, received a FB invite to a farewell party for four Adelaide based crew. It was mentioned another three leaving within the same timeframe. That’s a hell of a lot of attrition that must be difficult to sustain?

[BO0M]

How does the RPT bonus work?
RPT bonus is paid to the F100 crews when they work 1 sector a month on an RPT service (like VA). Pretty much guarenteed money from what I hear.

[Hold_Short]

Hi guys/girls,

see below the Air New Zealand remuneration pay grades for all aircraft toes in the Jet Fleet. Remembering this is for a 65hr working month. Every our worked above this is paid incentive house which is accrued exponentially at a rate up to a maximum of 166% of your pay. This also does not included allowances made overseas or during duty as well as other company paid expenses. One example is, operating crew are currently receiving approximately $40,000 in allowances whilst up line or away from home. This is additional to their salary.

Currently working a 95hr roster which is about 150% of this remuneration figure as we are all in incentive time due to lack of pilots available. Post COVID issues. 🤑
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1149x1546/img_1376_01325de0a53e880c79e47f97cea5503cb6944d21.jpeg



https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1040x1355/img_1375_b6e9455b61eba1bdfb2a9f6b5eaa27bf1b477cf1.jpeg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1074x1446/img_1374_fc3919d6d7eb2303ef082fe86acc81785d1a481d.jpeg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1786x1108/img_1373_2a8c8658ba79055fe4d3c8535295400c2c6a38a6.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1604x842/img_1372_269dd03ec74d6051905e0c1544c27e814f08b0f1.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1864x897/img_1371_a5e77baf9c2367796299fb7de9a921c67a4e882e.jpeg

[ElZilcho]

Hi guys/girls,

see below the Air New Zealand remuneration pay grades for all aircraft toes in the Jet Fleet. Remembering this is for a 65hr working month. Every our worked above this is paid incentive house which is accrued exponentially at a rate up to a maximum of 100% of your pay. This also does not included allowances made overseas or during duty as well as other company paid expenses. One example is, operating crew are currently receiving approximately $40,000 in allowances whilst up line or away from home. This is additional to their salary.

Currently working a 95hr roster which is about 150% of this remuneration figure as we are all in incentive time due to lack of pilots available. Post COVID issues. 🤑

Air NZ rates are for 60hrs hrs not 65 (59 on the A320)
IP from 60-75 is paid at 1.25% of your roster base pay, 1.5% for 75-90 and 2.5% for 90-100, so at 100hours you would earn 166.25% Widebody or 167.5% A320. You cannot double your salary through IP.

Yes, 95hr rosters will earn you approx 150% of base. You’ll also never see your family or have any real quality time off… especially on the A320 fleet where even a 75hr roster can feel massive due to short domestic sectors.

$45k in allowances would require you to bid for, and consistently achieve long trips, particularly ULR to ORD/JFK which is only on the 787 fleet and mostly only available to Captains & FO’s due to the pairings.
You’ve gotta eat something during your week away from home… it’s one thing to slam click and eat 2min noodles on a 10hr min rest overnight on the A320, but Longhaul, to pull those kinds of numbers, you’ll spend more time at hotels than at home and life would be incredibly dull if you bring a packed lunch and stay in your room.

Honestly, those numbers sound like someone got a massive roster and simply multiplied it by 13 to annualise it, ignoring leave, call lines and roster balancing.

The highest hours (~95) are currently being flown by 777 crews and are not sustainable. The highest allowances are from the long ULR JFK/ORD trips which are operated by the 787.

[dejapoo]

Sitting in one's room eating noodles, how incredibly K1W1. Unbelievable

[ADFUS]

Sitting in one's room eating noodles, how incredibly K1W1. Unbelievable

Hey at least we're not including super in our yearly pays to show off how superior we are.

[morno]

Hey at least we're not including super in our yearly pays to show off how superior we are.

I don’t know too many people who do include it in their numbers to be honest, it’s not like we can touch it for years. Most numbers quoted for Australian pay is less super

[ElZilcho]

Sitting in one's room eating noodles, how incredibly K1W1. Unbelievable

Was meant as sarcasm not a suggestion.

[Wizofoz]

Hi guys/girls,

see below the Air New Zealand remuneration pay grades for all aircraft toes in the Jet Fleet. Remembering this is for a 65hr working month. Every our worked above this is paid incentive house which is accrued exponentially at a rate up to a maximum of 166% of your pay. This also does not included allowances made overseas or during duty as well as other company paid expenses. One example is, operating crew are currently receiving approximately $40,000 in allowances whilst up line or away from home. This is additional to their salary.

Currently working a 95hr roster which is about 150% of this remuneration figure as we are all in incentive time due to lack of pilots available. Post COVID issues. 🤑
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1149x1546/img_1376_01325de0a53e880c79e47f97cea5503cb6944d21.jpeg



https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1040x1355/img_1375_b6e9455b61eba1bdfb2a9f6b5eaa27bf1b477cf1.jpeg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1074x1446/img_1374_fc3919d6d7eb2303ef082fe86acc81785d1a481d.jpeg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1786x1108/img_1373_2a8c8658ba79055fe4d3c8535295400c2c6a38a6.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1604x842/img_1372_269dd03ec74d6051905e0c1544c27e814f08b0f1.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1864x897/img_1371_a5e77baf9c2367796299fb7de9a921c67a4e882e.jpeg
Wait, so NZ pilots who fly the 777-200 don't fly the 300ER?

[ElZilcho]

Wait, so NZ pilots who fly the 777-200 don't fly the 300ER?

Nah, 777 was a common type so everyone flew both. The -200 was the first to arrive and a PayScale negotiated for it, then the -300 was added so another scale created. In the back of the CEA, not shown above, is a "blended rate" table which set the 777 rate as a function of how many of each Variants we had.
Now, we only have -300's so that's the rate. If however they were to add some -200's back into the mix (unlikely), we'd go back to the blended table.

The same will (should) apply for the 787. Current rates are only for the -9 so a separate rate would be required for the -10
We shafted ourselves on the A321 however, having previously agreed on an A320 "Family" rate. At the time, the concern was the Company might odd some 319 or 318's to the mix so they locked in a family rate... whoops!

[morno]

Nah, 777 was a common type so everyone flew both. The -200 was the first to arrive and a PayScale negotiated for it, then the -300 was added so another scale created. In the back of the CEA, not shown above, is a "blended rate" table which set the 777 rate as a function of how many of each Variants we had.
Now, we only have -300's so that's the rate. If however they were to add some -200's back into the mix (unlikely), we'd go back to the blended table.

The same will (should) apply for the 787. Current rates are only for the -9 so a separate rate would be required for the -10
We shafted ourselves on the A321 however, having previously agreed on an A320 "Family" rate. At the time, the concern was the Company might odd some 319 or 318's to the mix so they locked in a family rate... whoops!

The fact that you get a different rate for exactly the same aeroplane (with a bit of metal tubing missing), spells pathetic to me. I’ve never heard of that anywhere else in the world. Trust the kiwis to come up with that.

[Lapon]

The fact that you get a different rate for exactly the same aeroplane (with a bit of metal tubing missing), spells pathetic to me. I’ve never heard of that anywhere else in the world. Trust the kiwis to come up with that.

Bigger plane = bigger revenue = bigger pie to share around aka pilot wages.
Good on the kiwis I say.

What spells pathetic to me is selling out future new joiners, and giving away conditions for new types... cough Australia.

Its also refreshing the air NZ guys/girls actually post thier bare bones min base. Try finding that on an oz airline thread.

[ShandywithSugar]

Can someone please post ;

Alliance E190 rates on QantasLink work.

[SIDS N STARS]

The latest TA at JetBlue has different pay scales for A220-100 & A220-300. Delta has different pay scales for B767-400ER & -300ER, also the A321 & A321N have different pay scales. I'm sure there are more examples, but I agree, seems a bit pedantic.

[davidclarke]

Bigger plane = bigger revenue = bigger pie to share around aka pilot wages.
Good on the kiwis I say.

What spells pathetic to me is selling out future new joiners, and giving away conditions for new types... cough Australia.

Its also refreshing the air NZ guys/girls actually post thier bare bones min base. Try finding that on an oz airline thread.


:D:D:D

I really don’t know how new SOs can sit in the flight deck with their colleagues who voted for them to have a 30-40% pay cut. I would be seething….

[ElZilcho]

The fact that you get a different rate for exactly the same aeroplane (with a bit of metal tubing missing), spells pathetic to me. I’ve never heard of that anywhere else in the world. Trust the kiwis to come up with that.

The latest TA at JetBlue has different pay scales for A220-100 & A220-300. Delta has different pay scales for B767-400ER & -300ER, also the A321 & A321N have different pay scales. I'm sure there are more examples, but I agree, seems a bit pedantic.

Interesting pair of replies there.
Seems we aren’t the only ones in the world to get paid by Aircraft size… Pedantic? Quite possibly. Depends on how you look at it, did we get a pay rise for the -300 or did the company get a discount for the -200.

If it were an Aussie Airline I wonder how pathetic it would still be? Silly bloody kiwis, we even put a Subsidiary clause in our contract to prevent our flying getting farmed out to new entities.

[morno]

If it were an Aussie Airline I wonder how pathetic it would still be? Silly bloody kiwis, we even put a Subsidiary clause in our contract to prevent our flying getting farmed out to new entities.

Nah it’d still be pretty pathetic. Probably full of kiwis too :E

[Lapon]

Interesting pair of replies there.
Seems we aren’t the only ones in the world to get paid by Aircraft size… Pedantic? Quite possibly. Depends on how you look at it, did we get a pay rise for the -300 or did the company get a discount for the -200.

If it were an Aussie Airline I wonder how pathetic it would still be? Silly bloody kiwis, we even put a Subsidiary clause in our contract to prevent our flying getting farmed out to new entities.

If the -200s arrived first then you most certainly did get a pay rise for the 300.
If it were an oz airline you would have taken a pay cut for the -300!

[Transition Layer]

Hey at least we're not including super in our yearly pays to show off how superior we are.
Hang on, the Kiwis are getting super now? :ooh:

[dejapoo]

:D:D:D

I really don’t know how new SOs can sit in the flight deck with their colleagues who voted for them to have a 30-40% pay cut. I would be seething….

Don't take the job!!!

[Lapon]

Hang on, the Kiwis are getting super now? :ooh:

They have for about 15-20 years. I think the air NZ crews did even before it was 'compulsory' anyway.

[Transition Layer]

They have for about 15-20 years. I think the air NZ crews did even before it was 'compulsory' anyway.
:ok:

Please tell me it’s more than the 4% quoted here though:


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1170x1155/img_4028_e6be77e1f6f23b071daff24363a8ec2647cdd85c.jpeg

[ScepticalOptomist]

At least the pay at AirNZ has improved - about time.

[Gnadenburg]

At least the pay at AirNZ has improved - about time.


Yeah hopefully it’s good enough to keep you blokes home. Overseas with the impending pilot shortage, there are murmurs that Kiwis will soon arrive in plague-proportions again.

[ElZilcho]

:ok:

Please tell me it’s more than the 4% quoted here though:


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1170x1155/img_4028_e6be77e1f6f23b071daff24363a8ec2647cdd85c.jpeg

7.5% for Pilots.

[BO0M]

Can someone please post ;

Alliance E190 rates on QantasLink work.

Post 423 above.

No such thing as Qantas or VA work, it's Alliance.

[BO0M]

Bigger plane = bigger revenue = bigger pie to share around aka pilot wages.
Good on the kiwis I say.

What spells pathetic to me is selling out future new joiners, and giving away conditions for new types... cough Australia.

Its also refreshing the air NZ guys/girls actually post thier bare bones min base. Try finding that on an oz airline thread.

Whilst I generally agree I think you'll find they did feed their young to the sharks when the regional payscale was wrapped into one. Minimum super guarantee was lowered as too was the new joiner base rate (especially when you look at what it was in the mid 2000s at Mt Cook ATR salary). I believe the thinking was that commands will never take as long on the regional fleet as they use to be (12 years on ATR at one stage and 7-8 until about 2011) so the shorfall in pay will be made up. Likewise introducing the RSL (regional seniority list) and the right to get into Air NZ would be a carrot for people to stay.

For the Astronaughts and Kiwis out there who may not understand each others super set up...................Kiwis, in OZ your super is paid on top of your salary (11% may be more depending on company) and you DO NOT have to sacrifice that percentage of your salary to get it. Ozzies, Kiwis MUST sacrafice their salary to be paid the company contribution, if you don't you don't get it.

[cessnapete]

Ref. ANZ pay scales. That’s a pretty good salary, compared to a BA A380 F/O with six years seniority. The BA F/O earn about 30% less than the equivalent ANZ B777 F/O.
(BA don’t employ S/Os, all F/Os are fully trained to P1 standard. Many BA long haul routes are flown with a two pilotcrew. Inc. the A380.)

[ElZilcho]

Ref. ANZ pay scales. That’s a pretty good salary, compared to a BA A380 F/O with six years seniority. The BA F/O earn about 30% less than the equivalent ANZ B777 F/O.
(BA don’t employ S/Os, all F/Os are fully trained to P1 standard. Many BA long haul routes are flown with a two pilotcrew. Inc. the A380.)

It takes about 18 years seniority just to get a 777 FO Position.

For those who choose to stay on the Widebody, it can be 10 years as an SO before they have the seniority for F8.

Different Airline on the other side of the world. Not sure how relevant the comparison is.

Many of our routes aren’t flown 2 Pilot because we’re in the middle of nowhere and it takes 10-13hrs to get anywhere other than Aussie or the Pacific Islands.

[777xpilot]

It takes about 18 years seniority just to get a 777 FO Position.

For those who choose to stay on the Widebody, it can be 10 years as an SO before they have the seniority for F8.

Different Airline on the other side of the world. Not sure how relevant the comparison is.

Many of our routes aren’t flown 2 Pilot because we’re in the middle of nowhere and it takes 10-13hrs to get anywhere other than Aussie or the Pacific Islands.

10 years as an SO, I don't know how people could do that. I would rather shoot over to the ME or QF mainline. And another thing that is a joke is the time its takes to get ANZ mainline from the turbo prop fleet...

[Lapon]

10 years as an SO, I don't know how people could do that. I would rather shoot over to the ME or QF mainline. And another thing that is a joke is the time its takes to get ANZ mainline from the turbo prop fleet...

I don't think you'll find yourself in a wide body QF mainline window seat much inside 10 years (if even that). ME or anywhere else sure, but for some there is more to life than thier fleet or rank at work.

For NZ and QF the short haul fleets offer a near instant pathway to three stripes if thats important.

[777xpilot]

I don't think you'll find yourself in a wide body QF mainline window seat much inside 10 years (if even that). ME or anywhere else sure, but for some there is more to life than thier fleet or rank at work.

For NZ and QF the short haul fleets offer a near instant pathway to three stripes if thats important.
I agree with you about the quality of life 100%. I'm at QF link now and had the offer of employment from my home airline flying the koru props but the progression and time taken to mainline is what put me off. However people have different views.

[A320 Flyer]

Latest 330 FO slots at QF went to Mid 2017 joiners….

[morno]

Latest 330 FO slots at QF went to Mid 2017 joiners….

And I reckon in the next few years they’ll be going even more junior!

[ElZilcho]

10 years as an SO, I don't know how people could do that. I would rather shoot over to the ME or QF mainline. And another thing that is a joke is the time its takes to get ANZ mainline from the turbo prop fleet...

Anyone who spends 10 years as an SO has made the choice to do so. FO A320 is a direct entry position these days, and when it wasn't, 737 FO was.
Part of the issue is our incentive pay mechanism vastly under-rewards shorthaul compared to Longhaul. In the case of SO vs F20, the pay is arguably even if not more in favor of SO. With the rising cost of living in Auckland it's no surprise more and more Pilots are choosing to commute and stay Longhaul which is why A320 Captain is Junior to Longhaul FO. Financially, C20 doesn't start beating out F8/F7 until the top steps. At the moment, Junior C20's are on around Yr 3-4 pay.

As for how long it takes to get to Jet from Link, our esteemed leader did it record time. I wonder why she decided it should take 8+ years?

I agree with you about the quality of life 100%. I'm at QF link now and had the offer of employment from my home airline flying the koru props but the progression and time taken to mainline is what put me off. However people have different views.

The Landscape is always changing. Whatever the process today it'll likely be different tomorrow. No progression to Mainline used to be one of the worst aspects about QLink, how times have changed.

[cessnapete]

It takes about 18 years seniority just to get a 777 FO Position.

For those who choose to stay on the Widebody, it can be 10 years as an SO before they have the seniority for F8.

Different Airline on the other side of the world. Not sure how relevant the comparison is.

Many of our routes aren’t flown 2 Pilot because we’re in the middle of nowhere and it takes 10-13hrs to get anywhere other than Aussie or the Pacific Islands.

Yes probably not a valid comparison re S/O vs F/O, as many east Coast USA /Mid East LH routes are flown with a 2 pilot crews.
Pay scales also are not based on aircraft type, but Seniority in the Company. ( ie a 10 year A321 F/O is on the same pay as a 10 year A380 F/O.)
This avoids a pilot having to transfer to LH to get the higher pay, if he wishes to remain on SH European fleets. It also saves the Company double training costs in progressing a pilot from SH to LH.
Due to pilot shortages, recruiting suitably experienced pilots direct to 777/787/A350-A380 is starting again shortly.

[itchy_feet]

Alliance from September 1st (F100/Ejet) 6% CPI increase

CA: $186491
FO: $128679
Productivity CA: $332
Productivity FO: $210
RPT Bonus: CA $790 / FO $545 (F100 only not Ejet)

Alliance Current

CA: $175935
FO: $121395
Productivity CA: $313
Productivity FO: $198
RPT Bonus: CA $838 / FO $578 (F100 only not Ejet)

Productivity kicks in at 55 hours, most CA doing at least 80-90 hours a month and FO lucky to do 55 hours

Contract negotiations currently underway for Queensland based crew

That seems low for F100/E190 Captain at Alliance given the current climate. NJE about to vote on new EBA with E190 Capt from July 2023 will be around $210k base.

[aussieflyboy]

That seems low for F100/E190 Captain at Alliance given the current climate. NJE about to vote on new EBA with E190 Capt from July 2023 will be around $210k base.

$210 base is more then an Australian A220 Pilot will get.

[bazza stub]

$210 base is more then an Australian A220 Pilot will get.

Oh but the opportunity to fly something new and exciting! :}

[BO0M]

That seems low for F100/E190 Captain at Alliance given the current climate. NJE about to vote on new EBA with E190 Capt from July 2023 will be around $210k base.
When does overtime (productivity) kick in and whats the proposed rate?