Australian Airline wages compilation

[Chadzat]

Continuation from VB Pilot Recruitment thread-

Maybe a good idea to have a thread where the base salaries (therefore not the average "remuneration package" and hopefully avoiding any potential legal issues surrounding publicly available information) are collated into the one thread. This information would be hugely valuable to those contemplating a change of employer or indeed for the benefit of those having to negotiate fairer agreements.

If any of these figures are incorrect please let us know! Also would be great to find out either anonymously or through a post those with agreements that arent on FWA website

1st Year Base Salary Rates-

QANTAS

767 Captain - $227,760


737 F/O - $114,000

Virgin Blue
A330 Captain - $193,000
A330 F/O - $126,000

737 Captain - $190,334
737 F/O - $104,684

E-jet Captain - $152,267
E-jet F/O - $83,747

V Australia
B777 Captain - $207,934
B777 F/O - $120,924
B777 S/O - $61,285

Jetstar
A330 Captain - $180,871
A330 F/O - $99,480

A320 Captain - $158,659
A320 F/O- $87,626

Tiger
A320 Captain - $122,120
A320 F/O - $81,800

Strategic
A330 Captain
A330 F/O

A320 Captain
A320 F/O - $113,000

Cobham
B717 Captain - $144,000
B717 F/O - $78,288

BAe 146 Captain - $144,000
BAe 146 F/O - $78,288

DHC-8 Captain - $78,255
DHC-8 F/O - $46,940

Coastwatch DHC-8 Captain - $109,902
Coastwatch DHC-8 F/O - $65,941


Alliance
F100 Captain - $122,675
F100 F/O - $82,819

F50 Captain
F50 F/O

Skywest
A320 Captain - $165,000
A320 F/O - $107,250

F100 Captain - $128,848
F100 F/O - $83,751

F50 Captain - $97,244
F50 F/O - $63,209

Qantaslink
Q400 Captain - $92,863
Q400 F/O - $60,361

Q300/Q200 Captain - $86,789
Q300/Q200 F/O - $56,466

Regional Express
SF340 Captain - $76,322
SF340 F/O - $46,337

Aeropelican
BAe32 Captain - $64,862
BAe32 F/O - $46,559

RFDS QLD
B200, PC12, C208 Line pilot - Tier 1 $93784 Tier 2 $104817

Skippers
DHC-8 Captain -$89,168
DHC-8 F/O - $50,253

E120 Captain - $88,816
E120 F/O - $50,253

SA227 Captain - $70,855
SA227 F/O - $42,537

Brindabella
J41 Captain - $69,000
J41 F/O - $46,000

Metro Captain - $57,000
Metro F/O - $38,000

Express Freighters Australia
B737 Captain - $120,000
B737 F/O - $75,000

B767 Captain - $170,000
B767 F/O - $110,000

Air North
E170 Captain -
E170 F/O -

E120 Captain -
E120 F/O -

SA227 Captain -
SA227 F/O -

Skytrans
DHC-8 Captain -
DHC-8 F/O -

Network
F100 Captain - $140,000
F100 F/O - $85,000

E120 Captain - $85,000
E120 F/O - $55,000

Hardy Aviation
Metro Captain - $75,000
Metro F/O - $52,000

C441 Captain - $70,000


I will endeavor to update this 'front' post.

[GAFA]

Alliance figures from 4- 5 years ago, FO $65000 and Captain $105000.

Might want to add Skywest ATR72 to the list.

[Hoofharted]

Strategic 320 F/O - 113

[Sonny Hammond]

Where are QF mainline figures? I figure it is a 'main' rpt operator.

Oh yeah, thats right!:} that salary is dead in the water and not worth adding to the list. In 3-5 years no-one will be earning that anyway.

Lets put in Emirates as it will be the other 'main' rpt operator in oz.

And lets be fair, apples to apples and all that.

Lets compare 'packages'. After all, the girls are only interested in our 'packages'......:ok:

That is a BIG thumb!

[Warped Wings]

Don't those V Australia salaries include superannuation?

[Not Plussed]

Virgin Tech B1 Lame - single rating.

$136,000 p.a. no shift penalties or further payments

6 weeks leave

+ super + staff travel

[Skynews]

Not sure as to the accuracy of these figures. Cobham 717 and 146 Captain are $144,000 until June 2011 Not $105,000.

I like the concept, however apples to apples is important.
As a suggestion to the thread starter, what do you think about breaking the table down into half a dozen columns of the most important issues, such as
Base salary without super
Level at which "overtime" cuts in and the hourly rate
Callout allowance if work on RDO as examples.

[fmcinop]

V Australia "offer" does include super and 3% 1st July rise. Equates to only a $5000 rise on current salary.

[Mr. Hat]

I would like to have columns but I only have so many hours in the day! I removed V Aus as the offer is for current employees only and none of it is in concrete so its outside the criteria.

The basis of the numbers is:

EBA document
1st year (so/fo/capt)
No super
June 11 there abouts.

It started as an apples with apples comparison for a wanabee on another thread. Anyway this is Chadzats baby I can only amend my post not the top one.

Skynews would that be for a first year captain?

[GAFA]

It's not my baby, I just provided a few numbers.

[The Green Goblin]

Pay your AFAP membership fees and you will have access to all these EBAS.

Conditions are much more than the raw dollar figure. The small print in the EBAs determine your quality of life.

I'd also suggest with flying pay, tigers salaries are higher than posted. they are certainly better than onestar.

[GAFA]

I think it's best to stick to base figures, as each persons personal choices such as working on day's off, number of overnights will change depending on bases and bids etc. Some are happy to work on days off and are chasing the money, while others want to be home. Some (in the case of DJ) bid for multi-day trip, while others bid for day trips. If it's kept at base figures then it's apples with apples. The base figures are fixed whereas the extra’s such as flight pay, overnight allowances, overtime are all variable and are subject to change by the individual or company (rostering etc).

I think one of the purposes of this thread is to compare wages between the airlines (and large GA companies) operating similar size aircraft and I think already we have seen some big differences and in some cases some very low wages for the size of the aircraft. It’s not about who took home the most.

GG,

Not all EBA's or the full EBA is available via the AFAP, Network for example has the EBA, but the pay figures have been removed.

[Chadzat]

Thanks to those that have replied with updated figures.

Mr Hat- I hope Im not stealing your thunder here, its no-ones baby really, I just thought it might be a good idea to see all the baseline salaries in our industry at the moment in one post.

Skynews- Excellent idea. I'll see how the thread goes for a few days and if we can fill all the current salary gaps, then the main "features" of each agreement will probably be added to that the reader can work out a representative total package.

stainedpantystealer- I seem to recall from another thread it can get dangerous when actual total packages are posted on here, in particular it might have been a divorce settlement where the figures could be used as evidence against a pilot. I might be completely off the track with that one though.

As i said, it is very much apples with apples at the moment in terms of this is the MINIMUM salary you could be paid over 12 months.

Original post updated.

[fender]

What about retention bonus? That's guaranteed if you stayed on at J* 6% p.a.

[Mr. Hat]

As Chadzat says its not anyones 'baby' and the idea is those with the info can copy the latest then update hopefully keeping the formatting for easy reading. The idea being that eventually all the gaps will be filled giving an apples with apples comparison for those that are interested. If you have figures chuck em in. I think for simplicity if overseas companies are to be included just put it in local currency.

As I've said and GG reiterated conditions are much more than base salary.

In my last updated post I also provided the link to the document where the info was sourced (FWA) that is freely available to all members of the public.

stainedpantystealer, under the Vb one I added a few small extras which give an idea of the whole package. I think it important to keep it as accurate, minimalist and easy to read as possible. Its not a mines bigger than yours or a 'they are bastards' thread. Just facts.

[Chadzat]

Also if someone can provide a reasonably accurate base salary for Qantas mainline ops, please do. Its my understanding from reading the EBA that an "outsider" trying to work out a rough salary has no hope as things such as hours and allowances make up a large proportion of what is earned. Hence the reason why I havent put up the QF fleets.

[breakfastburrito]

Perhaps a better way of presenting the information is as a range, ie
65/80/95 stick hours per months. This gives a more realistic comparison of income.

This is quite easy to set up in a google doc spreadsheet with open read only access. Things such as retention bonus & super could also be included.

[WannaBeBiggles]

If there is enough demand for it, I'll publish all these on a website I'm setting up.

I was thinking about doing something like this already, so would be a welcome addition.

Thoughts?

[breakfastburrito]

Wannabe, that would be great, we all contribute in the ways that we can around here. Do you have all the EBA's? It would be ideal to include the 2010 Air Pilots award as the base figures.

[Cravenmorehead]

Good idea wanna be.
What an excellent and enlightening post.

[Howard Hughes]

Would love to see a number of hours flown per annum versus pay comparison!:ok:

[breakfastburrito]

A good place to start is FWA search (http://www.fwa.gov.au/index.cfm?pagename=agreementsfind&norightcol)
Choose Advance search, put pilot in the tittle & use "Airline Operations" in the industry pull down menu. I get 96 agreements there.

Just searching on "Airline Operations" gives 729+ agreements and an error. So the search can be refined a little more with company names or states etc.

[Chadzat]

Great idea breakfastburrito and wannabe. Any refinements/additions to the compilation would be fantastic!

I think it would be a great idea to have the 60/70/80 hour per month comparison. That way the productivity and other bonuses can be turned into an easy to read figure for each.

Does anyone with a more legal mind or even the mods have anything to add in terms of whether we are wading into dangerous territory by providing figures that are very close to the mark of what guys are taking home in their pay packet?

[Mr. Hat]

Would be a good final year uni project.

[breakfastburrito]

Chadzat, I can't see there would be a problem given that the information are public documents. You would be surprised at the hidden information that is out there in obscure formats, just waiting to be compiled and made user friendly.

As an example, companies are required to provide their share holder details on request. One tactic is to make it available as a series of "image" files at can't be easily read by OCR, so the details must be manually re-entered into a database before any analysis can be performed. The Federal Reserve Bank in the US did this just last week as part of a FOI request on their "Discount Window" lending during the height of the GFC.

It's called "hiding in plain sight".

[M Taylor]

Qantas Long Haul

Understand it is a tad complex - due to allowances etc etc.

But say if a pilot is on an hourly rate of "x" what typically would their annual salary be or what would be the salary range ? Just put it in terms of "x" if you like ?

What would the mininum me in the event of little flying taking place - such as the 380 recently and 330 a couple of years back ?

[Mr. Hat]

The website is a great idea but will take a bit of time. In the meantime if others with the data/info can update the missing figures it will provide a current snapshot.

[43Inches]

There needs to be a date next to the salaries presented to show when it was in effect.

Disregard; skywest are correct, my error in reading 2010/11 as 2011.

[Chadzat]

If you'd care to point out which ones are incorrect and then post a correct salary that would be appreciated 43 Inches. It takes a lot of effort to go through the FWA website for each EBA document. The figures already posted are either correct as from an EBA document or have been given by other posters as the most recently available info.

Also I believe those Skywest salaries are indeed correct as of July 2010, as they were had directly from their EBA.

[GAFA]

Agree with Chadzat re Skywest pay.

From their EBA for 2010/11 F100 first year Captain $128848, FO $83751, A320 Capt $165000 FO $107250 and F50 Capt $97244 and FO $63209.

I have also have heard from a few contacts the ATR72 pay will be 5% on top of the F50.

From the 2010 Skippers EBA

Dash 8 Capt $89,168 FO $50,253
E120 Capt $88,816 FO $50,253
Metro Capt $70,855 FO $42,537

The Capt figures include a productivity Bonus as detailed below.

A3 Productivity Bonus
The Productivity Bonus payment is an addition to the base salary paid. It is
employee specific and payable at the sole discretion of the company. The
bonus payment is inclusive of all amounts applicable to any non-management
administration duties that may be assigned by the Company. 28 days notice
will be given to an employee should the productivity bonus be removed or
reduced. Reasons for same and conditions of reinstatement will be given to
employee in writing

[pointyend330]

Would be good to see the comparison to QF wages also..

But I guess we won't get that figure, cause their too busy counting it.. :}

[jibba_jabba]

To find out about all airlines pay in general go here:

Pilot Jobs Network - for students of pilot schools and experienced airline pilots (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/)

Find the country your interested in and then click the "All factfiles (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/operatorlist.php?reg=Europe)" link below that countries name

you will then be taken to a list of airlines/charter/ etc etc.

you can read the details and there will be a date so you can see if its old info. And if you are in an airline (lucky or unlucky) then you can update the info!

:ok:

[Ricky Bobby]

Great thread guys.

Sobering to think though that in a 3rd world country just north of Australia they are paying captains of a certain 19 seat aircraft a base of $110,000 AUD to work tours of 3 weeks on, 3 weeks off.

[629bus]

CX year 4 f/0 a330 = 180k pa

mate who is a 6yr f/o = 204pa (plus O/T)

[ciport]

QF 737 FO $165/hr min guarantee 696hrs/yr =@114k+super+Allowances additional hours paid $165

At the moment only about 5-10 additional hours per month

[Keg]

QF 767 Captain: $219 per hour. Pay of 1040 per annum. Super is either 10% of 1060 or 17% of 878.

Plus allowances, plus training credits of about 27.5 hours per year. Someone else can work out the gross. As pointyend likes to point out, I'm too busy counting it. :rolleyes: :ugh: :=

[haughtney1]

How much tax comes out of the Keg?

[Keg]

G'day Haughtney, without any tax deductions, about $90K per annum.

[breakfastburrito]

about $90K per annum
Right there is your answer to the offshore/inshore conundrum.
Lets take a conservative average of say 65K for ~2300 pilots =$149,500,000 tax bill for pilots alone. Nice little boost to profits $150M++. High fives & bonuses all around! The pilot still gets the same in the hand.

Its not the pilots that are uncompetitive, its the unsustainable tax welfare redistribute system. Will the Federal government sit back and allow it to happen?

[Brutus]

Will the Federal government sit back and allow it to happen?

Not only will they allow it, they will be complicit.

After Joyce has so earnestly supported the Carbon Tax he will be looking for a little quid pro quo.

[Normasars]

Touche Brutus.

Greasy palms all round.:yuk:

[Mr. Hat]

After Joyce has so earnestly supported the Carbon Tax he will be looking for a little quid pro quo.

...indeed! "you scratch mine i scratch yours and you eat well in chairmans lounge!"

[Chadzat]

First post updated with some more figures. Anyone from Network or Airnorth like to share some figures?

[Mr. Hat]

Chadzat few changes on mine COBHAM i think was wrong see what you think..

Worth a comparison as I had updated a few yesterday. Feel free to copy links to the EBA's so people can look for themselves.

[Skynews]

Mr Hat,

The COBHAM figures you provide distort the case a little for the following reasons.

All the figures are 4 yrs old and have to be adjusted by 4 x CPI increases.

Quoting the year one figures for an F/O works OK. I'm not sure what the last 4 yrs of CPI's are, but as an example if they were all 3% then F/O starts at $70k. Nno one starts as a Captain in year one. I don't think anyone is actually on less that year 4 as a Captain, so that's $144,000 until June at which time it increases again, probably about $138,000 if you make Captain in 3 yrs.

So it depends on whether you want to paint a worst case scenario or what people can realistically expect. Problematic!

[Chadzat]

Skynews, that may be the case, but all of the other company Captain figures are 1st year. Obviously you are highly unlikely to be a 1st year captain at most places, but its apples with apples. Can you provide some accurate 1st year Cobham figures?

[Mr. Hat]

Understood Skynews. I'm not sure which is the right path as I haven't read the ebas just glanced at the figures quickly as originally it was only intended as a quick snapshot from a job searcher. I suspect however that most of them have the cpi adjustment? Hence we would have to adjust vb's etc? I'm not sure.


What I don't want is to discourage the likes of yourself from speaking up or contributing because it is the shear numbers on pprune that will make a more comprehensive set of figures.

Ultimately wanabees website would be the ultimate tool for the jobseeker. Had I thought of it all those years ago I would have done it as a uni project.

[Skynews]

It has to be apples to apples, however there is no point using figures that are not truly representative of reality.
For example, not 1 Cobham Captain has ever been paid year 1 figures, and I doubt they ever will, so to indicate the captains salary is $105k is really misleading, as it is if the other companies are not truly representative.

My suggestion is that some one, I will with my minimal computer skills if required, draw up a table and publish the basics for each company with enough detail to paint a clear picture.

I will start with Cobham as I know those details.

[Mr. Hat]

Cheers yes a broader perspective is required.

The FO's wage stands though is that correct?

[Normasars]

Skynews,

AFAIK, Cobham DOES NOT have a year of service for Command Pay; that is a Year 10 Capt earns exactly the same as a Year 4 Capt or IF and it would be a big IF, the need for DECs was there, the first year Capts pay would still be the same. I may be wrong but I think it is only the F/O pay that is indexed by the years of service. Happy to be corrected if this is not the case though.

[Skynews]

Normasars,

you may stand corrected.
Captains and F/O's employed under the National Jet Pilots Collective Agreement are indexed by years of service and thats on all types including your DHC8.

The index is dependant on years of service within the company, not on type or rank. So a if a pilots starts and is promoted to Captain within a couple of years he certainly is on an indexed scale.

If your employed on another contract, NJOS/Jetex/Special Mission then thats a different issue and you can't transfer to the 717 without resigning anyway. Different employment conditions, different seniority etc.




By itself this means nothing, it would be interesting to have other companies in a similar format. There are obviously lots of factors that affect life style that are impossible to indicate via numbers and tables BUT..........
Happy to put other companies on if some one can offer the info.
These numbers are my calculations, there may be some minor errors.
http://www.fwa.gov.au/documents/agreements/wpa/CAEN084458480.pdf
These amounts DO NOT include super or bonuses.

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff452/skynews/Scan-1.jpg

[Mr. Hat]

To do it comprehensively is massive job but would be incredibly useful.

[Skynews]

A big job, BUT IF one person from every company was prepared to put the info together and we decide on a basic format, it wouldnt be too much individually and as you say incredibaly useful and not just for newbies.

I would love to know where I sit.
Took me 5 mins

[WannaBeBiggles]

Work is progressing, I hope to have the basic bits up and running by May to get people to enter data and start providing feedback.

Current thinking of structure is as follows:

Operator
Type
Salaried
Rank (Capt. Co. So)
Year x
Hourly Rate
Yearly$
Average Hrs Flown (Day, Month, Year)
Contract
Rank (Capt. Co. So)
Hourly Rate
Yearly$
Average Hrs Flown (Day, Month, Year)
Extras (Per Diems, OT, Sector, Accom, Etc)



Suggestions / Feedback welcome

Note: only concentrating on the wage part currently, things like leave entitlements and such will follow after the first version is out and working.

This is just a small pet project and will hopefully be able to dedicate some more time after I finish my last ATPL!

[hongkongfooey]

CX year 4 f/0 a330 = 180k pa

mate who is a 6yr f/o = 204pa (plus O/T)


Apples to Oranges, I also have a mate who is 330 F/O ( 8 years ) Oz based, was on 140K before the recent rise, so now about 160KAUD. 204K would have to be HK base and that is not nearly enough to live in one of the most polluted, crowded cities in the world.:yuk: 204K to poison your family...is that enough ?

Pay the Oz tax realising that you actually get something other than the privelege to breathe coal dust, heavy metals and particulate matter for it :ok:

[The The]

Nice spreadsheet skynews, but could you make the "years to cpt" column a bit wider for Qantas? It's a pretty big number that has to fit in there!

[Mr. Hat]

Some other ones might be:

Productivity Cut in hour and rate
Min rest
Super
Death Cover
LOLI
Annual Leave
Carers Leve
Staff Travel Y/N
Salary Sacrifice

Not to load you up wannabe:ok: but if you are going to do a spreadsheet formula style you might as well do the hours in 10 hour increments so blokes can see what they would be making if they worked for x.

I think its not only useful for the wanabee/change jobs but also for the eba negotiating time. You can quickly see where you are at

[living the good life]

If anyone really believes that you get good service for the tax you pay in Aus you really need to live out side aus for a while to realise how delusional that idea truly is.

I dont live in HK but I am an expat and my lifestyle has improved no end since leaving Australia, and my mates in HK have all found a similar situation.

when you take into account the tax rate etc, just converting the currency doesnt give a fair comparison. to save as much as I am now in Aus I would have to be on $400K a year!

204K AUD in HK is prob similar to earning 350K in aus!

[hongkongfooey]

No worries " living the deluded life " I have lived in HK for over 4 years , HK has just been awarded 3rd most expensive city in the world for expats. I can't speak for other expat cities but here in good old smog central the air on a good day is 6 times the WHO limit on a bad day 15 times, and the health of my co-workers and their families backs that up.

Tax in Oz is not 50% as the haters would like to believe, on 200K it is actually just over 30%. In HK as well as smog you enjoy population density in excess of 10 times that of Australia, public school system for non-locals is a joke and CX/KA only pay a % of private school, public medical for non-locals is good for nothing other than an emergency, there is no first home buyers scheme, help for families ( other than a minute tax break ) etc, and things like local council funded pools, parks etc ? forget it.
BTW I never said good service from Aust tax, because nowhere in the world do you get your moneys worth from the Govt.

204K AUD in HK is prob similar to earning 350K in aus!

Actually you have that ar5e about, you would need to be earning 350KAUD in HK to come close to the same life you'd enjoy in Oz on 204K,the facts are HK is 3rd most expensive city in the world, beer is cheap which is great if your family drink a lot of beer, virtually everything else is not.
And anyway, the topic is " Australian Airline wages compilation, so my point was comparing an overseas airline wage and living o/s is not apples to apples.

when you take into account the tax rate etc, just converting the currency doesnt give a fair comparison. to save as much as I am now in Aus I would have to be on $400K a year!

I'm curious to know where you earn 250K a year after tax ? ( 400K in Oz is 250 net )

Sounds to me you are a young single bloke that has only recently left Oz, correct me if I'm wrong ?

[living the good life]

Sorry HKfooey, I over estimated, only cleared 230 so I guess I did exaggerate a little.

I am not single, I have a wife, 1 bub and my trusty dog.

I have only been out of aus for 2 years although it took me about 5 years of research before I found the gig I have now, which is why I left. I won't tell you exactly where I am based but I will mention airlines certainly aren't the place to make money anymore especially in aus.

The Asian region is definitely the place to work and Aus could be a good retirement village when I get sick of the most enjoyable life experience I have had. Even my wife is happy!

[fmcinop]

Latest V Australia offer, $216,500 base plus 9% super plus allowances plus some form of overtime/ day off payments etc. Still way off the mark. The offer is still funded by a B scale for new pilots though.

[Skystar320]

Asked a freind yesterday who is a management accountant at one of the majors. Has three others reporting to him and their mandate is 'future'

Took home AUS$245,000 last financial year

Consultant for Australia Aviation as a whole AUS$156,000

[GAFA]

Updated Alliance F100 figures from their 2010 EBA.

Captain $122675
FO $82819

[Chadzat]

New figures added to first post.

[amos2]

Are you lot sure that you want to publish these figures?
Mr & Mrs Joe Public aren't going to be too impressed with you crying poor on salaries they can only dream of.
A little sophistication is required here...you are doing your cause for salary increases no good at all by going public.
The companies must be staggered at your naivety! :confused:

[Skynews]

My non flying friends all earn more than I do, as do most of my passengers.

If the "bosses" think they are on a winner due to the public realizing what the "top" of the aviation industry earn, then so be it.

We should include the charter and flying school guys to givent even more balance. That would open some eyes.

By the way, I think I am worth at least what I get, no embarrassment here.

[Mr. Hat]

Don't care about a pay rise just want things done properly. Is that ok with Mr and Mrs Joe Public?

[Chadzat]

Obviously Mr and Mrs Joe Public cant dream very well amos2. First year in the mines on a FIFO roster in an unskilled position would see you taking home more than most of those figures published so far.

We dont want to get into a debate about how such a highly specialised and responsible job should be remunerated. This is for the benefit of the professionals on this forum......

[sled_driver71]

Amos2

Had a few shandy's tonight my friend?

I would love the public to know that after graduating high school, 4 years of uni and then a 3 year apprenticeship in GA, that I earn less than a cleaner on a mine site that dropped out in year 9 and has absolutely NO qualifications!:yuk:

"Mr and Mrs Joe Public, I look forward to an educated debate on the matter of airline salaries."

[amos2]

...and, unfortunately Chadzat, you're not being professional at all, are you?
Many years ago a pilot representative for one of the Australian airlines was being interviewed about Australian pilot conditions compared to overseas pilots conditions and he commented that Australian pilots were very well compensated! He got a phone call that night from an older and wiser pilot rep who told him that he had just buggered the forthcoming negotiations with the companies that were due to commence in a couple of months time!
I'd pull my head in if I were you lot, all you're going to do is look silly if you cry poor in public! :=
You'll achieve more if you act more sophisticated.

[VC9]

Issue here is that very few, as percentage of the population, actually work in the mines.

[Jet Man]

A very small percentage of the population are airline captains!

[Compylot]

..and pilots will never let their ego's get in the way of their own self importance..

I find it quite amusing too that on one thread we're all complaining loudly about the demise of pay and conditions and demanding that young kids don't consider cadetships, yet boasting here (and exagerating, "no wait that may be the base salary but I've seen a mates group certificate who showed he earned xx amount last financial year")

The rot started years ago with pay for endorsement and back then there was a lot of noise about how that was dragging everyone else down, yet now hardly rates a mention and is seen as completely acceptable.

The public has, and always will see pilots as overpaid. It is very easy for management to cherry pick certain pay scales/rosters from the pilot group to hold up as proof that their pilots are paid well enough. Just as it's quite easy for the general public to further reinforce their perception by reading a thread such as this :rolleyes:

[breakfastburrito]

..and pilots will never let their ego's get in the way of their own self importance..

Oh, the irony!

As a recent addition to that of the league of professional aviator, I have from day one been taught that whenever I am around aircraft, airports or an aviation environment to act as one would expect from a commercial pilot!

Last week I paxed from Sydeny to Melbourne for my neices christening, and even though I was off duty I wore my full uniform consisting of standard white epaulette shirt, 2 bars, wings, blue pants and of course appropriately displayed ASIC.
Compylot 4/10/09 (http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/390859-pax-ing-uniform-2.html#post5231204)

[Compylot]

Quick breakfastburrito look up!

Nope, too slow it's gone..



Yeah, the irony :rolleyes: :ugh:

[living the good life]

I love the way most pilots believe in Myths, if you think that there are all these jobs in mines on great salaries, try and get one, I have a number of friends that have been trying for years and guess what out of about 15 guys I know trying only 1 has managed to get one, and he wasn't un skilled he was a very skilled paramedic.

In general pilots do earn more than general public across the board, and yes it is a hard slog to get a good pilots job, well at least it was 10 years ago. I am dead against the way airlines now make you pay for your type ratings and interviews etc hence I have never applied to anyone that asks for this.

At the end of the day we do have a good job and we can all live very comfortably on our wages even though a number of muppets have been bringing down airline wages for the last 10 years by attempting to buy there positions, no point getting all cut about that now though the damage has been done just work together to slowly bring conditions back if you can and as pointed out giving the MEDIA everyones salaries in aus is not a very smart move.

for an expat corporate pilot it was very interesting reading though.

I better put my head down and await now!

[breakfastburrito]

Compylot, I see you and raise you, Compylot post #post5231204 (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:-G0VB6mamYMJ:www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-390859.html+As+a+recent+addition+to+that+of+the+league+of+pr ofessional+aviator,+I+have+from+day+one+been+taught+that+whe never+I+am+around+aircraft,+airports+or+an+aviation+environm ent+to+act+as+one+would+expect+from+a+commercial+pilot!&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au&client=ubuntu&source=www.google.com.au)

Just to make sure we keep this post for posterity, in its entirety
Hi guys,

I am a recent professional commercial pilot (CPL, MEIFR Grade 3).

In regard to

as others could mistake you for someone of who is in a position of responsibility for the duty of care on the flight (in the event of an emergency where there's confusion etc).

As a recent addition to that of the league of professional aviator, I have from day one been taught that whenever I am around aircraft, airports or an aviation environment to act as one would expect from a commercial pilot!

Last week I paxed from Sydeny to Melbourne for my neices christening, and even though I was off duty I wore my full uniform consisting of standard white epaulette shirt, 2 bars, wings, blue pants and of course appropriately displayed ASIC.

The cabin crew on that flight were more than accomodating and thankful that they had an aviation porfessional in the emergency exit row, secure in the knowledge I had the capability and experience to direct pax in an emergency!

One of the passenegers next to me even asked me some questions on the briefing card and I helpfully pointed out some details!

So, I think that there is nothing wrong at all, in fact it is beneficial for professional aircrew to be appropriately identifiable when paxing on RPT services!

(Google cache really is your friend!)

[fmcinop]

No Jobs in the mines my ass! My cousin who is a real girly girl, spent the last 5 years working in a beauty parlor doing nails on rich women just got a job driving trucks at the mines starting on $150,000. She has dome debt and figured this is the quickest way to pay it off.

[The Green Goblin]

Surely CP was taking the piss?

No-one could be so daft as to wear a uniform when not required to (rex etc).

[living the good life]

FMC Inop

because 1 person you know got a job on a mine you assume there are plenty of jobs! and the mines prefer girly girls driving there trucks, as they are apparently more gentle on them!

Did your cousin know someone by chance in the industry?

there are the occasional stories of people getting gigs on the mines the same as the occasional stories of people getting good jet jobs with 200hrs, it happens but its not the norm!

[Captain Biggles84]

Comply

I hope that this is a gee up. Cos if it's not you my friend are the last person who needs to contribute on this thread. You would prob fit into the buy the job category or cadet scheme so I'm sure you would be happy to accept whatever figure gets thrown at you. I could think of nothing worse than being on a flight as a passenger with a know it all grade 3 with Bars and wings blazing. Your duty to let everyone know aye. You have a long way to go my friend and if you take the path where you don't have to buy a job then chances are you will get left behind or it will be way to hard with the kind of attitude that wearing a uniform on a plane outside of work hours portrayes. If not and you survive I wish you all the best.


Please tell me that was a gee up.... :\

[ozaggie]

Well, what an entertaining evening. Currently halfway through Ferry Bad Experience, (Biz,Ag,&Ga). Magnificent reading! Now I come to me old mates in DG&P, and who do I find?, none other than the clone of the villian from the previous thread.

Compy me old love, its your time to shout the bar.
Feckin hilarious!

OA

[Pappa Smurf]

fmcinop,
$150g starting pay--find that hard to believe. I know long term truckies in the big company mines who get $130g but these days they hire through agencies and starting wages are around $90g.
Some contractors pay less but if on a 72 hour week can build up a bit.

Pilots and miners wages cant be compared.The hours per year are totally different.

[Mr. Hat]

Salary Information - Latest Pay Rates by Industry at MyCareer (http://content.mycareer.com.au/salary-centre.aspx)

Tried to paste the expanded table wouldn't line up have a look at the link.

[Chocks Away]

Pilots and miners wages cant be compared.The hours per year are totally different.

They most definitely CAN be compared as they do 12 hour shifts 24/7... and that's exactly what I'm doing now!

NZ wages? Silence from there so far Johny, :) as the exchange rate would be crucifying them I guess!

[Donalduck]

"The cabin crew on that flight were more than accomodating and thankful that they had an aviation porfessional in the emergency exit row, secure in the knowledge I had the capability and experience to direct pax in an emergency! "

Thats funny in itself... someone didn't listen to the safety brief! Just what the Cabin Crew and pax would need... A Professional Pilot blocking the emergency exit while attempting to direct traffic...

Believe me those mine jobs are not easy to get... the most recent and seemingly only way in for beginners is a $16000 simulator course driving dump trucks in a room for a month... then a guaranteed position on $110 000pa as long as the contracts remain... and the competition for these positions is vast... sound familiar?

[Chadzat]

First post updated with some new figures.

[jibba_jabba]

To find out about all airlines pay in go here:

Pilot Jobs Network - for students of pilot schools and experienced airline pilots (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/)

Find the country your interested in and then click the "All factfiles (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/operatorlist.php?reg=Europe)" link below that countries name

you will then be taken to a list of airlines/charter/ etc etc.

you can read the details and there will be a date so you can see if its old info. And if you are in an airline (lucky or unlucky) then you can update the info!

This way you wont have to dig through a massive thread to get your info.

http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

[Wheeliebin]

Very Relevant, because:

- operate Oz routes eg SYD - FIJI - SYD
- operate trans Tasman routes

Captain A$100,000 (NZ$130,000)
FO A$50,000 (NZ$65,000)

NB This is part of the great "Group Contract" they would like all Jetstar pilots on.

As they have got away with paying above rates, and operating Oz routes with them, watch for more of the same !

[Nick McArr]

"Pilots and miners wages cant be compared.The hours per year are totally different."
"They most definitely CAN be compared as they do 12 hour shifts 24/7... and that's exactly what I'm doing now"

HOw can they be compared. Do miners have a 6 months cyclic system that checks them EVERY six months.
I'm not a miner, but I'm pretty sure you don't do a 2 year course, self funded just to get the licence, and then years of experience in order to earn any where near the 130k you guys are talking about.
:ugh::ugh:

[assasin8]

Yeah, but truck drivers get an air horn and get to use it every time they see a hot chick.... So there!;)

[zanthrus]

Does anyone know what Skippers pay a C441 Conquest Captain in Perth?

[Sassy91]

I'd like to see where those mining truck drivers will end up in the next decade, when Australia is no longer going to be able to dig up billions of dollars out of the ground.

[griffin one]

Probably where all the pilots will end up driving trucks in china or india on low pay and conditions , Still trying to sell each other out.

[pull-up-terrain]

My uncle owns a mining dump truck company in WA. Supposedly there is so many unskilled labour wanting to work in the mines as dump truck drivers, he can get away with paying his employees $70k per year 2 weeks on, 1 week off FIFO. Back in 2005 he used to pay his employee's $130k 1 week on, 1 week off and paid for their training, but since he receives 100's of resume's per year he can get away with offering lower salaries.

Very Relevant, because:

- operate Oz routes eg SYD - FIJI - SYD
- operate trans Tasman routes

Captain A$100,000 (NZ$130,000)
FO A$50,000 (NZ$65,000)

Absolutely disgusting seeing pilots willing to work for that. $50k as a FO is a joke.

[BBN RADAR]

Last week I paxed from Sydeny to Melbourne for my neices christening, and even though I was off duty I wore my full uniform consisting of standard white epaulette shirt, 2 bars, wings, blue pants and of course appropriately displayed ASIC.

@Compylot - wow, you must be a bucket of fun when you're off duty.

I love the way you make a point of saying: "and of course appropriately displayed ASIC" - for the benefit of the 5% of people that hadn't developed narcolepsy while reading your drivel.

I'm stunned, this is the saddest thing I've read in a while. I think I'm going to hit the BBC website and read some news on sub-saharan Africa to cheer me up... :ugh:

[airdualbleedfault]

Ah yes the mining myth, friend of mine did 2 on 1 off, got paid 100k as a poo kicker, sounds pretty good eh ? Arrive at work Mon morn after 90 min flight and start 7 x 12 hr day shifts, then straight into 7 x 12 hr night shifts at the end of the 7th night shift he caught a 90 min flight home which was the start of his 7 days off. He worked out that the hourly rate was marginally more than his 65k a year job and in any case was not worth leaving his kids fatherless for 2/3 of the year.
If I worked those sort of hours and got paid accordingly I'd be on 500k + a year, apples and oranges .

[Icarus2001]

I'd like to see where those mining truck drivers will end up in the next decade, when Australia is no longer going to be able to dig up billions of dollars out of the ground.

WHY would Australia NOT be able to continue exploiting our mining, oil and gas resources?

[airdualbleedfault]

Bula, can I please check your math ?

130+20+44 = > 200K :confused:

Also to get 44k O/T they would have to average 24 hours O/T a month ( taking out 6 weeks A/L ), if O/T kicks in at 75 like Jet* Oz, then they are doing 99 hours a month, or more to get 200K plus :hmm:
990 hours plus a year ? Makes the mining jobs look easy .

F/O generally earns 60% of a skipper, so based on your dubious Capt figures that would be 120K plus ?

[Karunch]

Icarus, we'll certainly have the capacity to dig up raw materials but if the early signs of financial stress coming from our largest customer are anything to go by, we may not need to. The Wenzhou financial crisis (as a barometer of the PRC economy) suggests we may see a glut of qualified mine site workers.

[zanthrus]

Does anyone know what Skippers pay a C441 Conquest Captain in Perth?

So can anyone answer my previous question?

[C441]

Does anyone know what Skippers pay a C441 Conquest Captain in Perth?

John Tilley used to pay me about $30K/year back in the mid-80's so you'd hope it's more than that! :cool:

[Icarus2001]

but if the early signs of financial stress coming from our largest customer are anything to go by, we may not need to. The Wenzhou financial crisis (as a barometer of the PRC economy) suggests we may see a glut of qualified mine site workers.

PRC GDP growth dropped from 9.5% to 9.1% from Q2 to Q3 2011.

So a SLOWING in GROWTH not a contraction though is it? See below.

China GDP Growth Rate (http://www.tradingeconomics.com/china/gdp-growth)

Even if there is some slowing of demand, initailly it is reflected in the commodity price, most mine sites around the country are not at full manning levels.

Remember that some of the big projects Gorgon gas, Wheatstone, Broome gas plant are only in either early development or have not even broken ground yet.

A slowing in PRC growth will not result in lay offs from mines, perhaps slower recruitment but that is all.

LNG exports are looking healthy.

North West Shelf Australia LNG - Home (http://www.nwsalng.com.au/)

Japan is by far our biggest LNG export customer.

Australian Liquefied Natural Gas (http://www.ret.gov.au/resources/upstream_petroleum/australian_liquefied_natural_gas/pages/home.aspx)

How is their economy looking?

Japan GDP Growth Rate (http://www.tradingeconomics.com/japan/gdp-growth)

Still growing at an annualised rate of 6%.

[airdualbleedfault]

Fair enough Bula, thanks.
But as a rule when we talk income we only talk base pay and any bonuses that are not based on flying hours, after all, if you walk into a bank for a mortgage they will not usually take into account overtime and working on days off.
I hear you on the pineapple, but I've been lucky to work for operators that supply the pineapple ( and some even ask which end you want inserted first ;)

[Chadzat]

Bump for ProProp, on D&G Questions

[BPA]

With most of the figures in this thread being over 12 months old, perhaps an update is needed?

[ramius315]

Hongkongfooey,

Re your comment that HKG was 'just awarded 3rd most expensive city in the world for expats.'

According to Mercer Consulting HKG was 9th (March 2011), down from 8th in 2010.
According to The Economist Intelligence Unit, and ECA Intl it wasn't even in the top 20.

[hongkongfooey]

Statistics and damn lies Ramius.
Have any of these turkeys actually lived in these places, and what exactly do they base their " liveability " on ?
We had a modest flat in HK that cost 1.4 mil AUD, sure KA were paying for it but we could not possibly afford what we have in Australia. Milk was $3 a litre, bread double the price of Oz, I did my own little comparo and the average grocery bill was around 30% up on Coles or Woolies, that is to eat non Chinese fruit and veg and eat like an expat. Fuel was just under 2$ a litre. Yes u could by beer from the 711 for $1.50 which is great if you and your family live on beer. Even child education is more expensive than what is avail to Oz citizens, and that's with the education allowance.
If you want to talk simple " liveability " then I am earning 1/2 as much, have a house twice the size, 2 cars, kids going to good schools AND we get to breathe clean air, but hey, nobody seems to put health high on the " liveability " list (WTF?)
I almost wet myself when HK beat (I think) Sydney or Melbourne in liveability, one of the reasons being the Australian cities were too " sprawled " out. Who would have thought living in a city where the population density is well over 10 times that of Australia was a bonus ?
Cheers
PS the 3rd most expensive city in the world was based on expat living costs, not wether or not you thought living in a 50 storey hi rise was a good thing

[toolish]

BPA normally I would keep out of this one but given that I have just completed my tax return 1 hr ago I can tell you

Jetstar A320 line capt 248K exc allowance

[Arnold E]

Jetstar A320 line capt 248K exc allowance

Then, you are over paid.:rolleyes:

[Keg]

More than a QF 767 captain. How many scheduled stick hours?

[Normasars]

Wind up alert!

[hongkongfooey]

248K for a 320 line driver, is anyone going to call the wind up/BS alert on this one ?
80k in o/t seems a bit of a stretch

[Capn Bloggs]

Then, you are over paid.
That's the spirit! :cool:

[Anthill]

With O/T etc, VAI B777 SFOs are making more than VAA Ejet captains.

[toolish]

Jeez
Post facts and no one believes you.
I would consider that underpaid but I shouldn't expect any better on this site

[GAFA]

B737 FO's working overtime are also earning more than Ejet Captains.

[Anthill]

Geez GAFA, that shouldn't be!

[The Green Goblin]

BPA normally I would keep out of this one but given that I have just completed my tax return 1 hr ago I can tell you

Jetstar A320 line capt 248K exc allowance

You're full of brown smelly stuff.

Jetstar have not issued group certificates yet.

But (and I do say but), captains are getting at times close to 220k. They work pretty hard for this and the lifestyle isn't great to enjoy the spoils to earn it.

[Transition Layer]

You're full of brown smelly stuff.

Jetstar have not issued group certificates yet.



Isn't it an ATO requirement that Group Certificates (now called a Payment Summary) are issued by July 14th?

Either yours is lost, Jetstar are breaking the rules (surprise surprise) or you are also full of said excrement.

[stainedpantystealer]

Goblin,

Group certificates (JQ) have been out for quite a few weeks now...

[Popgun]

Group Certificates (aka End of Year Pay Summary) were issued a couple of weeks back...

I had a good cry when I read mine...

PG

[flighterpilot]

Would anybody have salary information on Sharp Airlines?

Thanks in advance.

[avconnection]

Lots of movement around the country, time for an update?

[E.P.]

Australian based China Southern A330 Captains are averaging 18 nights at home each month and $350K pa ($20K per month in the bank after all taxes).

Four more glistening brand new A330s, fully loaded with all the goodies, arriving this year for the Oz operations.

Europe, UK, Asia and the Pacific layovers.

CSA have to be the friendliest, most accommodating people to work for and without any of the usual 'backstabbing, screw your mates, clamber over a dead dog to reach the top' culture of most carriers.

The gals are the 5th most stylish in the AP;

The top 10 stylish cabin crew in the Asia Pacific:
1. China Eastern Airlines
2. Asiana Airlines, Korea
3. Virgin Australia
4. Air China
5. China Southern
6. Air Asia, Malaysia
7. Singapore Airlines
8. Korean Air
9. Philippine Airlines
10. Jeju Air, Korea

A great job and a very happy bunch of chappies indeed :ok:

BTW, more A330 crew required!!

[KABOY]

CSA have to be the friendliest, most accommodating people to work for and without any of the usual 'backstabbing, screw your mates, clamber over a dead dog to reach the top' culture of most carriers.


Yep, until they don't require your services anymore. Look at AC, they have wonderful ways of removing pilots on contract.

Let that new A330 sit in the Gaungzhou sunshine for a little bit longer and see how quickly the gloss wears off!

[airdualbleedfault]

Unusual to have someone from CSA recruitment posting on DandG :hmm:

You know it's a wind up when they put mainland Chinese CC above Singapore and Air Asia

[E.P.]

I expected the usual suspects to throw rocks at something they know little about.

No wind up and not from any contract company. Here is the link for the Cabin Crew rating;

The Australian airline with the most glamorous cabin crew | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/holiday-ideas/which-australian-airline-has-the-most-glamorous-cabin-crew/story-e6frfqer-1226573518583#ixzz2KIfr5ugX)

I take it your beauty's didn't make the grade?

CSA is trying extremely hard to keep expats happy, despite the usual list of demands that contract pilots roll out. The goal is another Emirates, Cathay, etc and they will be hammering the Australian market hard.

CSA has also dismissed pilots for disciplinary and standards issues, having said that if you play the game you are welcomed into the family.

Make no mistake, you need to put in a big effort and need to be a healthy specimen with a great attitude (no dick swinging egos welcome) to get accepted, but the rewards are there once up and running.

Monthly pay is net and no tax top up required for Oz pilots.

Enjoy!

[E.P.]

Kaaaaaa Boy

For you my little friend...

"Without Haste, Without Fear-We Conquer the World"

[74world]

G'day E.P.

Check your PM.....pls

[RENURPP]

The gals are the 5th most stylishjust to clarify, the "gals" are not the most stylish, he "gals" uniforms are the most stylish. There is a very large distinction between the two.

E.g. Julia Gillard in one of these stylish uniforms does not make Julia Gillard stylish.

[E.P.]

True, but the collars still need to match the cuffs which is why QF et al is nowhere to be seen.:ouch:

[RENURPP]

Agreed! ...........................

[caneworm]

Monthly pay is net and no tax top up required for Oz pilots

EP,
Are you, (ie, expat pilots) being issued with official Chinese Govt tax receipts indicating exactly what tax has been paid?
As I understand it, this is the only way one can avoid paying the tax at home.

[E.P.]

Yes Sir and you should also research the ATO treaty below.

ARTICLE 15 - Dependent Personal Services

AUSTRALIAN TAX TREATIES
Chinese Agreement
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF AUSTRALIA AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBLE TAXATION AND THE PREVENTION OF FISCAL EVASION WITH RESPECT TO TAXES ON INCOME

[Chocks Away]

Sorry to digress but what updates or additions of the T's & C's do we have from Page 1's list, from April 2011 (see below)?

"1st Year Base Salary Rates-

QANTAS
767 Captain - $227,760
737 F/O - $114,000

Virgin Blue
A330 Captain - $193,000
A330 F/O - $126,000
737 Captain - $190,334
737 F/O - $104,684
E-jet Captain - $152,267
E-jet F/O - $83,747

V Australia
B777 Captain - $207,934
B777 F/O - $120,924
B777 S/O - $61,285

Jetstar
A330 Captain - $180,871
A330 F/O - $99,480
A320 Captain - $158,659
A320 F/O- $87,626

Tiger
A320 Captain - $122,120
A320 F/O - $81,800

Strategic
A330 Captain
A330 F/O
A320 Captain
A320 F/O - $113,000

Cobham
B717 Captain - $144,000
B717 F/O - $78,288
BAe 146 Captain - $144,000
BAe 146 F/O - $78,288
DHC-8 Captain - $78,255
DHC-8 F/O - $46,940
Coastwatch DHC-8 Captain - $109,902
Coastwatch DHC-8 F/O - $65,941


Alliance
F100 Captain - $122,675
F100 F/O - $82,819
F50 Captain
F50 F/O

Skywest
A320 Captain - $165,000
A320 F/O - $107,250
F100 Captain - $128,848
F100 F/O - $83,751
F50 Captain - $97,244
F50 F/O - $63,209

Qantaslink
Q400 Captain - $92,863
Q400 F/O - $60,361
Q300/Q200 Captain - $86,789
Q300/Q200 F/O - $56,466

Regional Express
SF340 Captain - $76,322
SF340 F/O - $46,337

Aeropelican
BAe32 Captain - $64,862
BAe32 F/O - $46,559

RFDS QLD
B200, PC12, C208 Line pilot - Tier 1 $93784 Tier 2 $104817

Skippers
DHC-8 Captain -$89,168
DHC-8 F/O - $50,253
E120 Captain - $88,816
E120 F/O - $50,253
SA227 Captain - $70,855
SA227 F/O - $42,537

Brindabella
J41 Captain - $69,000
J41 F/O - $46,000

Metro Captain - $57,000
Metro F/O - $38,000

Express Freighters Australia
B737 Captain - $120,000
B737 F/O - $75,000
B767 Captain - $170,000
B767 F/O - $110,000

Air North
E170 Captain -
E170 F/O -
E120 Captain -
E120 F/O -
SA227 Captain -
SA227 F/O -

Skytrans
DHC-8 Captain -
DHC-8 F/O -

Network
F100 Captain - $140,000
F100 F/O - $85,000

E120 Captain - $85,000
E120 F/O - $55,000

Hardy Aviation
Metro Captain - $75,000
Metro F/O - $52,000

C441 Captain - $70,000"

[ANCPER]

The fact that there's a tax agreement with China means nothing unless the ATO accepts that actual tax has been paid. If CSA was confident about this why wouldn't they have approached the ATO to get a ruling on this?

If it's the "tax paid" that tips it for you, I'd get a good tax opinion to back it up.

[ad-astra]

Virgin Blue NOW VAA
A330 Captain - $193,000 NOW $229,590
A330 F/O - $126,000 NOW $125,275 to $149,234
737 Captain - $190,334 NOW$205,473
737 F/O - $104,684 NOW $113,010 to $133,557
E-jet Captain - $152,267 NOW $173,174
E-jet F/O - $83,747 NOW $95,246 to $112,563

V Australia NOW VAI
B777 Captain - $207,934 NOW $244,500 4th YEAR ,$265,400 6th YEAR inc SUPER
B777 F/O - $120,924 NOW $155,000 4th YEAR, $170,000 6th YEAR inc SUPER
B777 S/O - $61,285 NOW $89,000 4th YEAR, $92,500 6th YEAR inc SUPER

[Vorsicht]

Not quite correct,

777 Figures quoted are level 4 not 5

Most Captains and F/o's now on level 6

[donpizmeov]

If you make it to level 7 do you win a free life pack or something? I am ****e at these games.

The don

[Stiff Under Carriage]

Cobhams FO - $87000
Rex Capt - $82174
Rex FO - $52269

[Blitzkrieger]

B717 Captain - $144,000
B717 F/O - $78,288

Not quite,

Captain $155,000
F/O $85,250 up to $100,750 after year 5

All down to the hard work of the two unions by the way :ok:

[Compylot]

Really, all of these wage 'compilations' are irrelevant and inaccurate.

There are a few simple rules all pilots use when quoting their own, or others (mates who have just got a new job) salary.

- Length of time in job, the newer The Pilot in a company the greater the salary quoted, the perception of how much this is decreases in a linear function with time.

- The pilot adjusts his salary according to who he is telling. Family and non aviation related friends are given vastly inflated figures, or just a sly nod when asked 'Wow you must make a lot of money being a pilot!'

- The salary is also adjusted up wards when The Pilot is at the pub and happens to strike up a conversation with a non aviation related female.

- The salary is adjusted down wards when The Pilot is at work and talking to colleagues, especially approaching EBA time.

- Mates of The Pilot who have secured new employment always make more money and have better conditions, at least for the first year.

- The real money however, is overseas. The Pilot often quotes about the vast amounts of money that can be made especially in the middle east.

- After some length of time overseas The Pilot then starts quoting the salary to be made 'back home' with any low cost carrier, you know it's not that bad really...

[Chocks Away]

Sorry but I disagree Compylot, they are very relevant and if they are clarified regarding year of service, they aren't misleading.
I agree with your sentiment that "the package" is often quoted, which includes Super, housing etc but in this thread, I for one, am trying to get an idea of the "first year take home pay", as a good gauge for where the start is within a company.
Your comments on "beefing up" what you earn when talking to chicks or outsiders, well... I can't relate to that because quite frankly: 1) it's an obnoxious concept; 2) considered rude to ask others in public and; 3) they're not circles I mix in sorry. When discussed in private with a close friend in the past, I was quite embarrassed actually, at what little I had earnt in comparison to them, having working 24/7/365.

The $$ are overseas, in some places but not all. Agencies & Airlines are always putting alot of "gravy" on the T's & C's to attract experience. Beware though, often you don't (or won't) qualify for their extra allowances (or rebates) like Super or Housing and may end up with more Tax than promised.

[Compylot]

With all due respect thats good for you Chocks Away. But for me and many others there is so much more to a flying job than the salary!

Prestige, wearing a uniform, telling girls what you do for a living, the view!

Good luck in your job hunting and I hope that you can one day find a flying job, who knows we may even be able to swap stories up the pointy end one day :ok:

[Captain Nomad]

Must be school holidays again... Compylot is back giving us all some inane advice... :rolleyes:

[Tidbinbilla]

http://www.responsegif.com/images/michael-jackon-eating-popcorn-thriller.gif

I was going to remove two of the four most recent posts, however I think we'll let it self-moderate :} for a little while, anyway.

[j3pipercub]

Cmon, I get a chuckle out of Compylots posts.

[GADRIVR]

Compy...do believe you have not completed your post correctly so I thought I'd help....:E

"With all due respect thats good for you Chocks Away. But for me and many others there is so much more to a flying job than the salary!

Prestige, wearing a uniform, telling girls what you do for a living, the view, the goats, the smack hangovers and the constant sense of not 'being of this world".

Did I mention the voices in your head (burn them...burn them ALL I say)

Good luck in your job hunting and I hope that you can one day find a flying job, who knows we may even be able to swap stories up the pointy end one day....after which there's a conceivably good chance I'll mistake you for an old love (though with less body that she had ), and demand you do that thing she did so well...
Now isn't that better?!?!? :}

[Anthill]

It is also important to know if the company is paying for your type rating or not. I see no reason why a professional pilot should be paying for their training. The fact is that a type rating is worth about $55k:

$30k+ to the training provider and then loss of income for 2-2.5 months @ $10k per month at least!

In our new EBA, we are going for a Coke machine and Foozeball in the crew room- that's worth a lot!

VAI B777:
Level/ CrFO/SFO/CA

1 $76,000 $135,000 $217,500

2 $79,000 $141,000 $226,000

3 $82,500 $148,000 $235,000

4 $85,500 $155,000 $244,500

5 $89,000 $162,500 $254,500

6 $92,500 $170,000 $264,500

7 $96,000 $178,000 $275,000

9% Super inclusive of the above. 10% additional for Training pilots (some SFOs are trainers). Allowances of about $180 per day on average. Overtime on top as well. Callout payment for working RDOs.

Type rating provided. 30 month return of service.

[grrowler]

9% Super on top of the above.

Fixed remuneration in the above table comprises annual base salary and 9% superannuation.

Just for the sake of accuracy.

[Anthill]

Er...check!

:\

[Chocks Away]

Amen Anthill... on type ratings.
Thanks Tidbinbilla :ok:

Good luck in your job hunting and I hope that you can one day find a flying job... thanks Compylot but no luck needed, jobs aplenty with such experience... in fact I probably started an airline you've worked for! :}
If the truth be known, I'm just "testing the waters".

Anthill, those VAI levels are interesting and I believe there's quite alot to be settled regarding seniority lists and hence years of service with many?

Good compilation of info gathering now, thanks to all.

Happy landings:ok:

[C441]

9% Super on top of the above.

Hopefully that would be 9.25%........just for the sake of accuracy;)

[TexanPilot]

No major airline in Australia pays for your type rating now a days.... Unfortunately it's the way the industry has gone.

[Jet Man]

The VAI EBA was negotiated when the compulsory super was 9%. To get the current super included salaries you'd have to divide by 1.09 and multiply by 1.0925. I don't know why they aren't just quoted ex-super like all other salaries!

[TheColonel]

Quoted that way because it makes them look bigger... :E

[RENURPP]

No major airline in Australia pays for your type rating now a days.... Unfortunately it's the way the industry has gone
I guess it depends upon your definition of " major "
You don't pay for your own endorsement at QF.
Cobham do foot the bill for endorsement, although they are not technically an airline.

[Vorsicht]

TheColonel Quoted that way because it makes them look bigger...

Not really, quoted that way because that's how it appears in the EBA, and we're too lazy to do the math.

Also beneficial when salary sacrificing because super is fixed, rather than being based on post S/S numbers


If you make it to level 7 do you win a free life pack or something? I am ****e at these games.

No free life pack but a guarantee of no night turns to Bombay in the big white whale :}:}:}

[donpizmeov]

Vorsicht,
You miss it. You know you do. Nothing like that early morning VABB aroma to let you know you are still alive. I am just waiting for those cripple 7 dudes to give us a go at it. :ok:
the don

[Anthill]

Texan, I accepted a job at Vaustralia (now VAI) on the basis that they paid for my B777 type rating. I was paid from day 1 of training, too, as were all VA pilots. The CzFOs on the B777 at VAI get their type rating for free as well.For some people this somehow meant that we were "sell-outs who were lowering the industry terms and conditions" or part of "Volunteers Australia", as a lot of the VB flight crew referred to us at the time. Now the latest vacancies for positions on the B777 have swamped admin with applications-captains even applying for SFO positions! I have never paid for any of my heavy aircraft type ratings, either. Only VAA and Jetstar get their pilots to pay for their own training. If someone agrees to pay for a type rating in order to get a job, I don't think that they have the right to bleat about it later.

[j3pipercub]

So anthill were you one of the 54kers? Were you one of the ones who applied when the job advert read 'this position offers limited career progression?'

[Anthill]

:hmm: Huh? What are you on about? What's a "54ker"? There were no job advertisements that said "'this position offers limited career progression". Who would put out an advertisement that would say that? I prefer to deal with reality, son. You don't appear smart by making things up.

[Captain Biggles84]

So anthill were you one of the 54kers? Were you one of the ones who applied when the job advert read 'this position offers limited career progression?'

j3pipercub is spot on.

I remember when the fist positions were advertised for CFO positions and the salary was in $50k. That wage at the time almost half of what a QF S/O was paid. The big shiny jet syndrome evident and a lot of people were swept up in it. Luckily for them, the rest of us, and the rest of the industry this acceptance of well below the going rate for an S/O didn't back fire and VAI have survived and there has been a significant (debatable) wage increase. You CFO's who applied when salary was 50k rolled the dice, some would say you gotta be in it to win it. But if the outcome of your haste conculded with VAI not surviving and went the other way i wonder how all your colleagues would of viewed you eagerness then......

Count your lucky stars cos there are plenty out there who have not had anywhere near as much "luck" as you may have.

[j3pipercub]

Anthill,

If memory serves, including super, the Czfo wage was 54k/yr. I also distinctly remember the job advert stating limited career progression when advertised. But if you are sure, then I must be making it all up. That condescending attitude suits you volunteer.

j3

http://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/334347-vaustralia-cruise-fo-interview-2.html

[Anthill]

Ah, I see. No, I applied for a different job. I never saw that add ;). You should be careful what you write here. You may offend those who joined Virgin as FOs on the 737 with pay-for-rating and on only $60k. Remember? When the captains only got $100k? Are you saying that they were "volunteers" too? Yes, good increases since then.

[KRUSTY 34]

Pilots!

Definitely their own worst enemies, it is what it is I guess.

Quiet at the moment (understatement), but one day ironically, the short sighted antics of airline management that has contributed to the reduction in the participation in the profession (by a factor of 10!) may finally come back to bite them!

Crackup! The far too clever architects of this unfolding situation, just may end up saving pilots from themselves:D

[glekichi]

I also remember having a look at the application, which stated quite clearly that there would be no progression to the domestic fleet, effectively locking applicants in the back seat unless they already held the required experience for an upgrade.

[Seriously]

Read the link... That's what it's there for...

[ernestkgann]

I'm really looking forward to the day that there is 2-300 ex RFOs, working as FOs at VAA.

[DUXNUTZ]

I'm really looking forward to the day that there is 2-300 ex RFOs, working as FOs at VAA.


Me too. Any idea how many there are currently? Gotta be at least 50.

[framer]

What is an RFO?

[peterc005]

RFO = Relief (Cruise) First Officer?

[PammyAnderson]

What is an RFO?

RFO is another way of saying second officer

[Break Right]

RFO = still can't land a 777:{

[Anthill]

j3cub and Captbiggles,

I just had a read through the link that j3cub provided. It contains the FAQ letter (the one that many said didn't exist!). You guys are trying to say that anyone who accepted a CzFO position was foolish because, as you say : 'this position offers limited career progression" . You are trying to say that CzFOs would have been stuck in a dead end with very little chance for advancement.

That's not what the FAQ paper (it's not an add!) actually says. You have selectively quoted words and failed to grasp the context. What is written is revealing as to where and how you are wrong:



CRFO CAREER OPPORTUNITIES

At our initial start up there will be
limited ability to progress from Cruise Relief First Officer to Senior First
Officer; however, Cruise Relief First Officer's will have the opportunity to
expand their experience within the Virgin Blue group fleet (B737, Embraer). V
Australia's preferred option is to progress flight crew vertically, but should
this not be possible after 2 - 3 years, the Cruise Relief First Officer may
elect to apply for a position with Virgin Blue as First Officer, through the
normal Virgin Blue application process. V Australia will assist in facilitating
this process, and credit will be given for the applicant's service with V
Australia. In a similar fashion, should that person, after 2 -3 years with
Virgin Blue wish to return to V Australia as a Senior First Officer, he/she will
need to apply for the position through the normal internal process. Once again,
credit will be given for the applicant's previous service with V Australia as
Cruise Relief First Officer.



Very clearly, there was the intent for a career path for CzFOs. The caveat being that in the start up phase, there would be not much seat swapping.

I'm not sure whether you have genuinely mis-interpreted the written words or if you are being a mischief maker. 2 things are clear: 1) You and a few other have a bee in your bonnet about CzFOs and 2) It would be a sensible thing to include a comprehension assessment at intake for pilot candidates, because some people out there simply can't understand, or interpret, written English.

[Dehavillanddriver]

Anthill, as someone who is accusing people of misinterpreting the information, you are missing one vital piece from the quote

but should
this not be possible after 2 - 3 years, the Cruise Relief First Officer may
elect to apply for a position with Virgin Blue as First Officer, through the
normal Virgin Blue application process. V Australia will assist in facilitating
this process, and credit will be given for the applicant's service with V
Australia.

my bolding

The normal Virgin Blue application process means that the CRFO's were intended to be treated the same as externals - i.e. NO career path other than that offered to everyone else.

The Company has improved things considerably since this was the case and now there is an internal process, however it certainly was not the original intent.

[j3pipercub]

Anthil,

"May elect to apply for a Position with Virgin Blue (sic) through the normal application process". And if you were unsuccessful? Where to then? Stay in the back seat?

Bee in my bonnet. Hmmm. Yeah I'm just over reacting. 54k (with super) and no guarantee of ever leaving that seat, you're right, I need to take English classes.

j3

[Anthill]

V Australia will assist in facilitating
this process, and credit
will be given for the applicant's service with V Australia.

Selective editing leads to a different conclusion as to what is meant. You need to read the passage in its whole :hmm:

The normal Virgin Blue application process means that the CRFO's were intended
to be treated the same as externals - i.e. NO career path other than that
offered to everyone else

From what I know, DHD, the company always intended for CzFOs to have credit given for their start date with the group. In fact, it's written in the FAQ document.

Cruise Relief First Officer's will have the opportunity to
expand their experience within the Virgin Blue group fleet (B737, Embraer). V Australia's preferred option is to progress flight crew vertically, but should
this not be possible after 2 - 3 years, the Cruise Relief First Officer may
elect to apply for a position with Virgin Blue as First Officer, through the
normal Virgin Blue application process.

I've copied the sentence that you referred to in its entirety, j3cub. Again. If only 1/3rd of the words written register on your brain, I cannot help you any further.

[Snakecharma]

Anthill, trust me when I tell you that the original intention was to not provide a career path into the the narrow body domestic fleet, there was also a great reluctance to have domestic guys go to the 777 operation, but there was an acceptance that if someone did make the transition then the previous service would be recognised for long service leave, sick and annual leave etc.

If the original executive GM had had his way none of the virgin blue guys would have been able to come over and pollute the "culture" of V.

It was very much set up as a separate operation in the early days.

To everyone's credit that has changed, but it certainly was not the way it was intended to operate.

[j3pipercub]

I love that corporate speak 'preferred'. How many of the CZFOs met Voz minimums for FO upgrade? How many made the move 'vertically'? Anthill, you seem intent on defending to the death the company that got you back to Oz, congrats and good luck. Remember to keep playing the man instead of the game. The snide remarks about comprehension and my brain (how did you know) were fantastic.

[Anthill]

Snakecharma, with respect, I can only go on what I read in official documents. Opinions of what may or may have not been the case simply aren't valid as a source of information and I cannot accept them in forming conclusions. It's a bit like believing a rumour whilst ignoring a fact. Some punters here have essentially stated that the CzFOs employed in the early days had taken a dead-end job. I differ in my opinion of this based the FAQs sheet as a policy document. To form a conclusion based on rumours or other's personal opinions when there is other, more robust, data would be irrational.



If the original executive GM had had his way none of the virgin blue guys
would have been able to come over and pollute the "culture" of V.



I never heard him say this or anything like it. I do know that he was dismayed that many of those domestic people who applied and were given interviews simply didn't turn up. I did hear him say that if they lacked the courtesy to not show for an interview, then he wasn't interested in them at any stage down the track. I think that this is fair enough. I also think that anyone who did this should be subject to some form of company discipline; clearly they lack the maturity to be a captain. Or even an FO.

[The Baron]

Snakecharma's recollection is correct. There was originally no intention to allow Crz FOs any promotion path into the domestic fleet. That changed a few years ago and they now have the chance to come over. They are now our colleagues and we should treat them like everyone else, with respect.

[ga_trojan]

Snakecharma is correct.

Anthill is making the assumption that the document was correct. I would suggest that this so-called document is either in error, or was published after the policy changed.

If VB guys wanted to go to V they had to resign lose all their sick leave and Long Service Leave and start again.

Likewise the Cabin Crew.

That's why many didn't go.

It was made in no uncertain terms that it was two separate operations and no movement was available between the two. It is also quite possible that the Voz Management were telling their guys one thing and the VB management telling theirs guys another and noone really knew what was going on.:hmm: Certainly won't be the first time that's happened in a airline:rolleyes:

[grrowler]

It was made in no uncertain terms that it was two separate operations and no movement was available between the two.
Sounds similar to another VA owned (albeit partly) airline. It'll be fun to see the reactive carry on from the pilot groups and unions if/ when Tiger expands and the horse has well and truly bolted!

[Vorsicht]

If VB guys wanted to go to V they had to resign lose all their sick leave and Long Service Leave and start again.

I have no evidence one way or the other, but i find it difficult to believe that Senior VB Captains who were 8-9 years in the company would have sacrificed their long service when they came over. History shows that they did not have to, or it was reinstated, as many of them have been on LSL over the last two years. These were guys who came in the first batch of VB Captains in 08/09 and were 00 and 01 joiners at VB.

[Chocks Away]

Time for an update if anyone cares to elaborate?
You'll see all below and get the idea.
Worth noting if any minimum length of service agreement, bonding or upfront deposits/bank guarantee is applicable also as that changes the whole equation in some circumstances.

QANTAS
767 Captain - $227,760
737 F/O - $114,000

Virgin Australia
VAI B777:
Level/ CrFO/SFO/CA
1 $76,000 $135,000 $217,500
2 $79,000 $141,000 $226,000
3 $82,500 $148,000 $235,000
4 $85,500 $155,000 $244,500
5 $89,000 $162,500 $254,500
6 $92,500 $170,000 $264,500
7 $96,000 $178,000 $275,000

9% Super inclusive of the above. 10% additional for Training pilots (some SFOs are trainers). Allowances of about $180 per day on average. Overtime on top as well. Callout payment for working RDOs.
Type rating provided. 30 month return of service.

A330 Captain - $229,590
A330 F/O - NOW $125,275 to $149,234
737 Captain - NOW$205,473
737 F/O - NOW $113,010 to $133,557
E-jet Captain - NOW $173,174
E-jet F/O - NOW $95,246 to $112,563
A330 Captain - $193,000 NOW $229,590
A330 F/O - $126,000
737 Captain - $190,334
737 F/O - $104,684
E-jet Captain - $152,267
E-jet F/O - $83,747

TIGER CAPTAIN*
Base $171,000 + EFA $140 + Retention $10,000
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $181,000
682hrs $195,700
787hrs $210,000
900hrs $226,220
TIGER FO Level 1*
Base $94,050 + EFA $70 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $94,050
682hrs $101,400
787hrs $108,750
900hrs $116,660
TIGER FO Level 2*
Base $109,440 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $116,107
682hrs $123,457
787hrs $130,807
900hrs $138,717
TIGER FO Level 3*
Base $114,570 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $121,237
682hrs $128,587
787hrs $135,937
900hrs $143,847

JETSTAR CAPTAIN*
Base $163,418 + EFA $207.65 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $163,418
682hrs $163,418
787hrs $163,418
900hrs $186,882
JETSTAR FO Level 1*
Base $89,880 + EFA $114.21 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $89,880
682hrs $89,880
787hrs $89,880
900hrs $102,785
JETSTAR FO Level 2*
Base $98,051 + EFA $124.59 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $98,051
682hrs $98,051
787hrs $98,051
900hrs $112,129
JETSTAR FO Level 3*
Base $106,222 + EFA $134,97 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $106,222
682hrs $106,222
787hrs $106,222
900hrs $121,473

Strategic
A330 Captain
A330 F/O
A320 Captain
A320 F/O - $113,000

Cobham
B717 Captain - $158,000*
B717 F/O - $85,250 up to $100,750 after year 5
BAe 146 Captain - $158,000*
BAe 146 F/O - $85,250 up to $100,750 after year 5
DHC-8 Captain - $78,255
DHC-8 F/O - $46,940
Coastwatch DHC-8 Captain - $109,902
Coastwatch DHC-8 F/O - $65,941

Alliance
F100 Captain - $122,675
F100 F/O - $82,819
F50 Captain ?
F50 F/O ?

Skywest
A320 Captain - $165,000
A320 F/O - $107,250
F100 Captain - $128,848
F100 F/O - $83,751
F50 Captain - $97,244
F50 F/O - $63,209

Qantaslink
Q400 Captain - $92,863
Q400 F/O - $60,361
Q300/Q200 Captain - $86,789
Q300/Q200 F/O - $56,466

Regional Express
SF340 Capt - $82174
SF340 FO - $52269

"The New Aero-Duck"
BAe32 Captain - $64,862
BAe32 F/O - $46,559

RFDS QLD
B200, PC12, C208 Line pilot - Tier 1 $93784 Tier 2 $104817

Skippers
DHC-8 Captain -$89,168
DHC-8 F/O - $55,000*
E120 Captain - $88,816
E120 F/O - $55,000*
SA227 Captain - $70,855
SA227 F/O - $42,537

Brindabella (R.I.P.)
J41 Captain - $69,000
J41 F/O - $46,000
Metro Captain - $57,000
Metro F/O - $38,000

Express Freighters Australia
B737 Captain - $120,000
B737 F/O - $75,000
B767 Captain - $170,000
B767 F/O - $110,000

Air North
E170 Captain - ?
E170 F/O - ?
E120 Captain - ?
E120 F/O - ?
SA227 Captain - ?
SA227 F/O - ?

Skytrans
DHC-8 Captain - ?
DHC-8 F/O - ?

Network
F100 Captain - $140,000
F100 F/O - $85,000
E120 Captain - $85,000
E120 F/O - $55,000

Sharp Aviation
Metro Cpt -?
metro FO - ?

Hardy Aviation
Metro Captain - $75,000
Metro F/O - $52,000

C441 Captain - $70,000"

* = updated to recent posts

[i_fly_planes]

Skippers Dash and Braz F/O now 55k

[B789]

Interesting reading chocks away! Any ideas on what the Toll wages are? Seems to be hard gen to find...

[RENURPP]

Cobham 717 Captain is $158,500 at present, will increase again in a month or so. I dont know what an F/O is today however its [probably fair to say all the Cobham wages would be slightly more than listed with an increase at the end of June.

[Jetsbest]

Are you sure your Tiger pay rates are up to date? I know tiger pilots who claim they're on more than JQ; better base pay and better 'overtime' cut-in point. :ok:

Anyone?

[Chimps CanGoTo Space]

TIGER/JETSTAR A320 RATES 2014

TIGER CAPTAIN
Base $171,000 + EFA $140 + Retention $10,000
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $181,000
682hrs $195,700
787hrs $210,000
900hrs $226,220

JETSTAR CAPTAIN
Base $163,418 + EFA $207.65 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $163,418
682hrs $163,418
787hrs $163,418
900hrs $186,882

[Chimps CanGoTo Space]

TIGER FO Level 3
Base $114,570 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $121,237
682hrs $128,587
787hrs $135,937
900hrs $143,847

JETSTAR FO Level 3
Base $106,222 + EFA $134,97 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $106,222
682hrs $106,222
787hrs $106,222
900hrs $121,473

[Chimps CanGoTo Space]

TIGER FO Level 2
Base $109,440 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $116,107
682hrs $123,457
787hrs $130,807
900hrs $138,717

JETSTAR FO Level 2
Base $98,051 + EFA $124.59 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $98,051
682hrs $98,051
787hrs $98,051
900hrs $112,129

[Chimps CanGoTo Space]

TIGER FO Level 1
Base $94,050 + EFA $70 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $94,050
682hrs $101,400
787hrs $108,750
900hrs $116,660

JETSTAR FO Level 1
Base $89,880 + EFA $114.21 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $89,880
682hrs $89,880
787hrs $89,880
900hrs $102,785

[Chimps CanGoTo Space]

TIGER & JETSTAR both require you to be type rated on A320 before you start. It would be smart to budget 2 months without pay for endorsement & a start date.

JETSTAR type rating approximately $38,000. TIGER don't mind where you source your type rating (significant saving possible).

JETSTAR A330/B787 add approximately 10 percent to A320 wages.

CAUTION - All new starters with JETSTAR are "flex-time". Flex-time is a 75% salary & overtime threshold drops from 75 hrs to 62 hrs. Full time is offered once a percentage cap is reached (10%). Time to full time is anyones guess with movement slowing this year.

JETSTAR EBA is expired and pilots have been told the QF group pay freeze applies until the group returns to profit.

Could someone confirm or disprove the rumour that JETSTAR NZ pilots now make more than JETSTAR AU?

Could someone supply similar accurate numbers (Base, EFA, Bonus & Estimated Earnings) for Virgin EMB, 737, A330 and QANTAS 737?

[Ted Nugent]

Chimps data is accurate.

[Berealgetreal]

Your post didn't come through chimps..;)

[myshoutcaptain]

Care to add QF A330 , 747 and A380 rates also ...

[LeeJoyce]

Lol the qlink fo makes less than the staff bus driver...

[flyingchestnut]

Data not entirely accurate.

Flexi Line at Jetstar- overtime starts at 56hours

A320 Endo is currently $41,000. salary sacrifice over 33 months. Approx repayments are just over 1200/month Pre Tax. So over the course of the three years you are really only paying about $30k or so due to the tax benifit.

Gone fishin, I disagree, this shows "market rates" and that is important to make an informed decision on future employment. Look for example the pay disparity between Jetstar and Tiger/virgin. Currently about 40-50k behind "market rates" for a skipper on a narrow body. In a few years with a freeze it will be more like 70-80k behind. Yea money isnt everything but im sure when we are talking that much disparity it doesnt matter how many more days or whatever you get off its the dollars that count.

[clear to land]

Gone fishing-very much disagree. Everyones Lifestyle vs $$ balance requirement is different. Public knowledge of what is available where is thus very important.

[glekichi]

Its not a pissing contest, its knowledge of what you should not accept less than (after considering lifestyle factors) in your next EA.

[Chocks Away]

Would anyone care to include some EnZed figures, given the exchange rate now being closer ($1.07).
Not interested in a slagging match here please, just stats... there are plenty of other threads already, where you can "put the gloves on".

Air NZ & Regionals
Virgin Oz(NZ)
Jitconnect
Vincent
Airwork
etc.

[Swanrider]

Tight-lipped kiwis, bro'.
Looks like they're gun shy. :rolleyes:

[Skystar320]

Network... Anyone got any figures? Especially the FO pay?

[dashate]

Virgin NZ

Captain (NZD)
$153,000 to $190,000

F/O (NZD)
$90,600 to $117, 600

Overtime at 71 hrs.

[Chocks Away]

PM'd to me, the following (thank you):

VANZ (previously Pac Blue)
2014 base
737 CA $161,200 NZD
737 FO $ 94,780 NZD

Air NZ (NZD)

B737-300
CA $142,800
FO $96,200

A320
CA $169,800
FO $110,100

B767
CA $185,800
FO $120,400
SO $96,200

B787
CA $203,100
FO $131,600
SO $96,200

B77-200ER
CA $219,200
FO $142,100

B777-300ER
CA $236,800
FO $153,500
SO $96,200

B747
CA $240,700
FO $156,000
SO $96,200

JetConnect (NZD)
B737
CA $160,600
FO $ 91,900

Jetstar NZ (NZD)
A320
CA $170,000
FO $ 93,000
***************

[kev2002]

Not sure where you got those Air NZ numbers from but they don't match any documentation I have

[Chocks Away]

"Air NZ salaries are effective 07 Apr 2014, base only, year 1, NZD, straight from the FEDERATION OF AIR NEW ZEALAND PILOTS 2013 contract."

[caneworm]

Perhaps to get a true appreciation of pay disparities between carriers we should extend this tread to include airline CEO wages.

[Icarus2001]

I guess that there are probably some agreements due for renegotiation in the next 18 months. Possibly a good time to revisit and update this thread.

[Chocks Away]

Another PM'd to me thanks.

JETGO Australia ERJ135 Pay Rates

Captain $122,000 plus allowances plus 10% Super
FO $75,000 plus same

Endorsement Salary sacrificed at around $35K over two years.

[thietkenhaxinh]

Strategic 320 F/O - 113

[log0008]

Regional Express as per new EBA which is now awaiting approval from FWC after successful vote.

Base rates years 1-10 as of July 1 2016
F/O 57,000 - 70,000
Cap 91000 - 114000

+2.5% per year until 2018

[NCD]

Noted that Air Niugini is not an Australian Airline, but there are many Aussies working up there, and a lot of its recruitment is directed at Australian pilots, so ANG is relevant in the thread (IMHO anyway)

(The Contracted salary and tax rates are in PGK (KINA) but paid in $AUD at the exchange rate of the day. All these figures are in $AUD having been converted at an indicative exchange rate of .40c. If the exchange rate goes up you get more, if it goes down you get less AUD. The exchange rate today is .41c)

SALARY

DH8 Captain $110,295 First Officer $47,063
400 Captain $122,088 First Officer $74,949
F100 Captain $143,958 First Officer $99,955
737 Captain $163,544 First Officer $107,746
767 Captain $174,135 First Officer $127,072


SUPERANNUATION

Nil

TAX

PNG Kina Tax figure converted to $AUD at .40c.

Tax on $28,000 is $8,564 then 40% on every dollar over $28,000 up to $99,999.

Tax on $100, 000 is $37,364 and the 42% on every dollar over $100,00.

Eg: 737 Captain will GROSS $163, 544, pay TAX of $64, 052 and NET $99,492 ($AUD8,291 / $USD6,316 per mth) without any super paid by the Company.

To put the salary into perspective: Using the figures quoted at Post 213 and the online ATO tax calculator, the ERJ 135 Captain will net $AUD 88,913 and receive $12,000 in super, a total package to $100,913 ($1,421 pa more than the PX B737 Captain).

[ExtraShot]

JETGO Australia ERJ135 Pay Rates

Captain $122,000 plus allowances plus 10% Super
FO $75,000 plus same

Endorsement Salary sacrificed at around $35K over two years.


Wait… What!? People are still signing up for this? I thought Pay for endorsement rubbish had become a thing of the past!? Not to mention salary sacrificing it on those rates of pay!

Get a bit of professional pride about yourselves and tell them "thanks but no thanks, I'll keep looking". There are plenty of jobs that pay better and don't charge you for the job. (Turboprop jobs at that).

[romeocharlie]

Extrashot, you must actually be kidding right? Have you seen GA wages in this century? 75k/year in a jet beats 50k/year getting flogged in some piston. Unfortunately it'll never change...

Keep your expectations low and you'll never be disappointed.

[Berealgetreal]

50k for flying a piston? Times have changed. I recall a time not so long ago when just getting a piston job was a miracle.

[romeocharlie]

GA piston-twin wages would have to be pretty close to that now - whatever the award is...

[ExtraShot]

Have you seen GA wages in this century? 75k/year in a jet beats 50k/year getting flogged in some piston

Actually its $57500 for flying a Jet. Utterly Pathetic. Thats less than what I was getting paid in my last couple of years flying Piston twins around a DECADE ago! (yes, those jobs are out there).

The 'Endorsement Cost" is actually real money (money you could invest in a nice safe ETF or LIC and be very pleased with in 20 or 30 years time), and as has been argued on Prune ad-nauseum over the years, a cost that should be born by the company and secured by Bonding an individual. No more, no less. Something 'Pilots' (I'll use that term nice and loosely for those that value themselves so lowly) with SJS seem to be blind to unfortunately.

There are jobs out there paying far (far, FAR) better than this. Jobs that are both in GA, and a step up from GA (Regionals, Customs, RFDS, and yes, other jet operators), and they don't ask the employee to bear the operational expenses of running the business, i.e; training your staff.


Keep your expectations low and you'll never be disappointed.

Indeed!

[TWOTBAGS]

Extrashot seems to have had a double hit of methadone here....

While you may not agree with what they pay, they have given plenty of turboprop guys their first crack at a jet which can be demoralizingly hard to achieve in this country.

At least its better than the US RJ jockeys:{

[ExtraShot]

Actually, what they are Paying is fair enough for the Aircraft type, the operation, etc. That is, before the 'mandatory' salary sacrifice is taken out and as a result you drop below the minimum Air Pilot award rates ( Minimum salary + turbojet addition to minimum + copilot instrument addition = early/mid $60's for this aircraft type, no? Why not just pay that for your F/O's then?).

What I don't find acceptable is People paying (or Companies charging, however you want to look at it), to get the job, thus for the first two years your take home pay becomes less than a City Bus driver (actually $75K probably is as well, good on the Bus Drivers).

I understand that this was the industry norm a decade ago. To be principled about it meant you missed out. Now, through no shortage of hard work and invaluable time spent away from their families, Pilot reps around the country (Jetstar, Cobham, Virgin… just to name a few), have managed to make it largely a thing of the past. The trade off might be that in some companies you might start on a lower wage for a few years, but its ABOVE the minimum award rates.

Then after all of that effort, that people would still be willing to Pay an enormous amount of good money for a pretty useless endorsement - with a company thats still not completely out of its start up phase - just so you can fly a jet...:ugh:

That they pay above the McDonald-esque rates of the US Regionals is no justification. Well, not to me anyway. Cheers all.

[ground to air]

Hey, I have been searching for the answer for a few hours now, with no luck.
Could someone please let me know what the VA NZ Eba is on the 737 ?

[slice]

39 ANNUAL BASE SALARY
39.1 Pilots shall be paid in accordance with the following table:
Level 2013 (Year1) 2014 (Year2) 2015 (Year3)
Captain Level 1 $153,506 $161,181 $172,464
Captain Level 2 $161,318 $169,384 $181,241
Captain Level 3 $169,131 $177,588 $190,019
First Officer Level 1 $90,267 $94,780 $101,415
First Officer Level 2 $97,446 $102,318 $109,480
First Officer Level 3 $104,730 $109,967 $117,664
3% 5% 7%

NZ$

http://vipa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/VANZ-CEA-FINAL.pdf

[viewsonic]

Virgin 737 NZ - Do first year external FO's only get 65% of year 1 & Bonded?

[DUXNUTZ]

Viewsonic, YES. I took this option, the pay is abysmal. I would suggest just paying the 30k upfront and being done with it as the company is very confused about the bonding arrangements.

From this and your other posts, it doesn't seem it took you long to start complaining about working at VA.

[zanthrus]

atlas 12.

If you are so unhappy I will swap jobs with you. Come and fly a clapped out C152 and I will fly your shiny jet.

[Snakecharma]

VA don't salary sacrifice any more.

[Chocks Away]

Time for an update of these all important stats I reckon, given the few EBA's recently voted down and the pilot-supply crisis (discuss that at length on other threads please, not here).

It won't be anywhere near the Chinese contract increases (or even Ryanair's) and I'd be surprised with anything other than the usual "CPI" adjustments, as Australian airlines still have their head in the sand with arogance.

Anyway, handing-over...

[das Uber Soldat]

Australian airlines still have their head in the sand with arogance.
You're the only one with your head in the sand. Your wage is determined by market forces, there is no jedi conspiracy at play against you. Ryanair isn't increasing wages because they felt sorry for the pilots, the supply shortage forced their hand. Chinese contracts aren't for the sums they are because of the wonderful unions in action there.

If someone is prepared to do your job for less than you and at the minimum acceptable standard (not hard for a pilot) then there will be downward pressure on your wage. And that has been the reality for a long time now.

Perhaps the trend will reverse due to the reduction in supply currently enveloping the industry but to suggest that a failure for rapid wage growth is due to 'airlines having their heads in the sand' is entirely myopic.

[Chocks Away]

Thanks for contributing to the data with your diatribe mate and thanks for supporting my contention with exactly what I was talking about with Ryanair & China. :D
I'm well versed on the economics & mechanisms at play, from both behind the yoke & behind the desk and need no lecture thanks from some apparent "manager" feeling the pinch due to cancelled services or no 457 approvals.
The rest of the globe has realised the supply drought and yes, it has happened already and getting worse, not "is developing"... just take a look at all the cancelled services & "rescheduling" around Australia this week! Anyway, this is for another thread as I said.

[Chocks Away]

QANTAS
767 Captain - $227,760
737 F/O - $114,000
Longhaul Min Guarantee is 160 hours and 6 1/2 rosters per year. Add 27.5 hours for mandatory training. 1067.5 hours.
Effective 1 Jul 18
Second Officer
A380.............................. B744.............................. A330
1. 91.58/ $97.6K..............1. 91.58/ $97.6K.............. 1. 91.58/ $97.6K.
2a. 98.01/ $104.6K...........2a. 98.01/ $104.6K........... 2a. 98.01/ $104.6K
2b. 126.22/ $134.7K.........2b. 120.21/ $128.3K.......... 2b. 114.51/ 122.2K
3. 132.89/ $141.9K...........3. 126.56/ $135.1K........... 3. 120.47/ $128.6K
Hourly rates go up 2-3% each year until year 12.
Individual fleet divisors may change. A330 currently 160. A380 currently 180.
Avg O/T per BP
50*...................................... 29.................................3
First Officer.
Using Year 12 rate only as that’s what they’re all on.
Using 160 min guarantee. Most divisors between 175- 185
A380.......................... B744.......................... A330.
215.18/ $229.7K.......... 204.93/ $218.8K......... 195.15/ $208.3K
Average O/T
46*.............................. 23.............................. 3.
Captain
Divisor and notes as per F/O
A380........................... B744............................ A330
326.07/ $348.1K........... 310.55/ $331.5K............ 295.76/ $315.7K
Average o/t
45*............................... 25.................................3.
* Note that the 380 o/t numbers will decrease dramatically when the 380 reverts to one LHR flight via SIN. Likely to be closer to 30.

Virgin Australia
VAI:
New pay for A330/B777 as follows:
Capt (+9.5% super)
July 17 $272,986 ($298,919)
July 18 $283,868 ($310,835)
July 19 $291,674 ($319,383)
FO (65% of Capt)
July 17 $177,440 ($194,287)
July 18 $184,513 ($202,042)
July 19 $198,588 ($207,598)
SO (53% of FO)
July 17 $94,043 ($102,977)
July 18 $97,792 ($107,082)
July 19 $100,481 ($110,027)
OT trigger at 75.25 hours per 28 day roster (at Capt $321/330/339hr, FO $209/215/221hr, SO $111/114/117 hr). Minimum credit guarantee of 5 hours for work on any day which includes paxing when in association with a flight duty pairing. Plus some other technicalities and adjustments.
New base rates for B737: (super not included)
Capt.
July 2017 $227,904
July 2018 $233,023
July 2019 $239,440
FO Level 1 / 2 / 3
July 2017 $125,347/$136,742/$148,138
July 2018 $128,167/$139,819/$151,471
July 2019 $131,692/$143,664/$155,637
OT trigger at 68.25 hrs per 28 day RP.


TIGER/JETSTAR A320 RATES 2014
TIGER CAPTAIN
Base $171,000 + EFA $140 + Retention $10,000
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $181,000
682hrs $195,700
787hrs $210,000
900hrs $226,220

JETSTAR CAPTAIN
Base $163,418 + EFA $207.65 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $163,418
682hrs $163,418
787hrs $163,418
900hrs $186,882

TIGER FO Level 3
Base $114,570 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $121,237
682hrs $128,587
787hrs $135,937
900hrs $143,847

JETSTAR FO Level 3
Base $106,222 + EFA $134,97 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $106,222
682hrs $106,222
787hrs $106,222
900hrs $121,473

TIGER FO Level 2
Base $109,440 + EFA $70 + Retention $6,667
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $116,107
682hrs $123,457
787hrs $130,807
900hrs $138,717

JETSTAR FO Level 2
Base $98,051 + EFA $124.59 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $98,051
682hrs $98,051
787hrs $98,051
900hrs $112,129

TIGER FO Level 1
Base $94,050 + EFA $70 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $94,050
682hrs $101,400
787hrs $108,750
900hrs $116,660

JETSTAR FO Level 1
Base $89,880 + EFA $114.21 + Retention NIL
Estimated Earnings;
577hrs $89,880
682hrs $89,880
787hrs $89,880
900hrs $102,785

Strategic
A320 F/O - $113,000

Cobham
B717 Captain - $158,500*
B717 F/O - $85,250 up to $100,750 after year 5
BAe 146 Captain - $158,000*
BAe 146 F/O - $85,250 up to $100,750 after year 5
DHC-8 Captain - $78,255
DHC-8 F/O - $46,940
Coastwatch DHC-8 Captain ~ 130,000
Coastwatch DHC-8 F/O ~ 78,000

Alliance
F100 Captain - $122,675
F100 F/O - $82,819
F50 Captain ?
F50 F/O ?

Skywest/VARA
A320 Captain - $165,000
A320 F/O - $107,250
F100 Captain - $128,848
F100 F/O - $83,751
F50 Captain - $97,244
F50 F/O - $63,209

Qantaslink
Q400 Captain - $92,863
Q400 F/O - $60,361
Q300/Q200 Captain - $86,789
Q300/Q200 F/O - $56,466

RrrrrrrrrExxyyyyyy
Base rates years 1-10 as of July 1 2016
F/O 54,000 - 66,000
Capt 89,000 - 109,000
+2.5% per year until 2018

"The new Aero-Duck"
BAe32 Captain - $64,862
BAe32 F/O - $46,559

RFDS
QLD - B200, PC12, C208 Line pilot - Tier 1 $93784 Tier 2 $104817

Skippers
DHC-8 Captain -$89,168
DHC-8 F/O - $55,000*
E120 Captain - $88,816
E120 F/O - $55,000*
SA227 Captain - $70,855
SA227 F/O - $42,537

Brindabella (R.I.P.)
J41 Captain - $69,000
J41 F/O - $46,000
Metro Captain - $57,000
Metro F/O - $38,000

Express Freighters Australia
B737 Captain - $120,000
B737 F/O - $75,000
B767 Captain - $170,000
B767 F/O - $110,000

Pionair

Airnorth
E170 Captain - ?
E170 F/O - 94,200
E120 Captain - ?
E120 F/O - ?
SA227 Captain - ?
SA227 F/O - ?

Skytrans
DHC-8 Captain - ?
DHC-8 F/O - ?

Network
F100 Captain - $140,000
F100 F/O - $85,000
E120 Captain - $85,000
E120 F/O - $55,000

Sharp Aviation
Metro Cpt -?
metro FO - ?

Hardy's
Metro Captain - $75,000
Metro F/O - $52,000
C441 Captain - $70,000

Careflight
$122,000 + +

JETGO
ERJ135 Captain $122,000 plus allowances plus 10% Super
FO $75,000 plus same
Endorsement Salary sacrificed at around $35K over two years.

VANZ (previously Pac Blue)
Captain Level 1 $176,776
Captain Level 2 $185,772
Captain Level 3 $194,765
First Officer Level 1 $103,950
First Officer Level 2 $112,217
First Officer Level 3 $120,606

Air EnZid (NZD)
B737-300
CA $142,800
FO $96,200
A320
CA $169,800
FO $110,100
B767
CA $185,800
FO $120,400
SO $96,200
B787
CA $203,100
FO $131,600
SO $96,200
B77-200ER
CA $219,200
FO $142,100
B777-300ER
CA $236,800
FO $153,500
SO $96,200
B747
CA $240,700
FO $156,000
SO $96,200

JitConnict (NZD)
B737
CA $160,600
FO $ 91,900

Jitstar NZ (NZD)
A320
CA $170,000
FO $ 93,000

"Air No Got" (thanks NCD)
Salary and tax rates are in PGK (KINA) but paid in $AUD at the exchange rate of the day. All these figures are in $AUD having been converted at an indicative exchange rate of .40c
SALARY
DH8 Captain $110,295 First Officer $47,063
400 Captain $122,088 First Officer $74,949
F100 Captain $143,958 First Officer $99,955
737 Captain $163,544 First Officer $107,746
767 Captain $174,135 First Officer $127,072
SUPERANNUATION
Nil
TAX
PNG Kina Tax figure converted to $AUD at .40c.
Tax on $28,000 is $8,564 then 40% on every dollar over $28,000 up to $99,999.
Tax on $100, 000 is $37,364 and the 42% on every dollar over $100,00.
Eg: 737 Captain will GROSS $163, 544, pay TAX of $64, 052 and NET $99,492 ($AUD8,291 / $USD6,316 per mth) without any super paid by the Company.
To put the salary into perspective: Using the figures quoted at Post 213 and the online ATO tax calculator, the ERJ 135 Captain will net $AUD 88,913 and receive $12,000 in super, a total package to $100,913 ($1,421 pa more than the PX B737 Captain).


Thanks for your updates and PM's, people :ok:
Happy Landings

[dehg5776]

Rex Captains on 89k - 109k and FO's are 54k - 66k, spread through years 1 to 10.

Easy to make 150-200k with overtime at the moment.

[Aussie Fo]

Does anyone have the Qantas info?
They don’t have 767s anymore and I’d suggest that those 737 figures are massively underestimating that everyone I know is complaining about being over worked but no one doesn’t like the pay.

114k? I’m happy to be corrected

[Capn Bloggs]

Some of those figures are just plain wrong. May I suggest that before posting, you check the numbers with the FWC website, Chocks Away.

[Beer Baron]

Aussie FO,

Yeah those numbers are certainly off the mark but it's hard to give an apples to apples comparison figure as the 737 minimum guaranteed hours are so low compared to actual hours flown. However, with an EBA coming up later this year I think it may be best if people don't start talking up the pay figures they are on as it may be used against us down the track.
Just my opinion.

[Chocks Away]

Which ones C'Bloggs? Tell us.
Many are old figures Bloggs I know but I'm just going off all the data I'm sent and what people are putting up here... it's a constantly evolving template which stagnated for awhile. Don't shoot the messenger.
Yep Beer Baron noted. Just base rates planned to be here only, not "guaranteed hours" or Cinderella stories used to attract crew. We know Overtime is always available and even more so now and in the future, IF you want it. It's a sounding board to educate others on their place in the market especially when negotiations are due with this supply shortfall, plus a useful tool to crunch the numbers with before taking a job offer or otherwise.

[206greaser]

Wow Strategic pay well! I think I’ll apply there...

How old are these numbers?! LOL!

[Capn Bloggs]

Don't shoot the messenger.
I won't shoot you, just call it as it is: Fake News. That's worse than not putting it up at all.

Sciolists come to mind...

[Sykes]

I won't shoot you, just call it as it is: Fake News. That's worse than not putting it up at all.

Sciolists come to mind...

As opposed to people who criticise from the side without any kind of meaningful contribution. (about 90% of your posts)

Trolls come to mind...

[Chocks Away]

Now Bloggs... Sciolists? Really? What a joke of a comment!
These aren't MY figures mate but a collaboration of others inputs!
A collection of data for everyone. Others started the thread too, cocko!
If you see wrong data, correct it, contribute, instead of your self righteous virtue signaling.
I hope you roll out of a better side of the bed tomorrow:hmm:

P.s. Thanks Sykes.

[Capn Bloggs]

So I have to contribute to correct Fake News. And I'm called a troll. Good one.

Instead of ripping into me, how about doing what I suggested. Get onto the FWC website and verify the stuff you've been fed by anonymous posters. Start with VARA.

You might like to have a look too, Sykes.

Yeah those numbers are certainly off the mark but it's hard to give an apples to apples comparison figure as the 737 minimum guaranteed hours are so low compared to actual hours flown. However, with an EBA coming up later this year I think it may be best if people don't start talking up the pay figures they are on as it may be used against us down the track.
Just my opinion.
Well said BB. :ok:

[Bones13]

Well Cobham coastwatch pays 78k now for FO, and I recall was around 130k for Captain.

Any idea what Hardys pay these days for 208, 402/404, 441?

[Sykes]

Instead of ripping into me, how about doing what I suggested. Get onto the FWC website and verify the stuff you've been fed by anonymous posters

How about YOU following YOUR OWN advice? You haven't even confirmed the Cobham figures. Why not provide updated info from your own EBA?

Bit too hard, though, isn't it? Much easier to bag out others.

All you're good for.

[das Uber Soldat]

How about YOU following YOUR OWN advice? You haven't even confirmed the Cobham figures. Why not provide updated info from your own EBA?

Bit too hard, though, isn't it? Much easier to bag out others.

All you're good for.
He's asking for information posted to be vetted. Its hardly an unreasonable request.

[Chocks Away]

True but doesn't he realise ever since 2011, when this thread started, it has been the actual pilots with the jobs doing the vetting :ugh: ... that's the whole idea of this exchange. Simples :rolleyes:

[Capn Bloggs]

No Chocks Away, it is the responsibility of a poster to basically post the facts (or is this Farcebook?). Chadzat went to great lengths to get his numbers right in 2011. It is clear that you have not, and in the process misled quite a few, and probably armed management with (fake) information with which to attack us.

If you can't independently verify the numbers, don't post them. "Simples".

How about YOU following YOUR OWN advice? You haven't even confirmed the Cobham figures. Why not provide updated info from your own EBA?
I didn't post them in the first place! Why is it now my responsibility to correct them? Get real. Besides, I told you lot where to find (some of) them and even told you a company that should be looked-at. Been on the FW site yet? Didn't think so...

It is obvious now that those numbers are so rubbery the whole post should be deleted. Chadzat would be rolling his eyes.

[Keg]

Qantas Rates
Longhaul Min Guarantee is 160 hours and 6 1/2 rosters per year. Add 27.5 hours for mandatory training. 1067.5 hours.

Effective 1 Jul 18
Second Officer
A380.............................. B744.............................. A330
1. 91.58/ $97.6K..............1. 91.58/ $97.6K.............. 1. 91.58/ $97.6K.
2a. 98.01/ $104.6K...........2a. 98.01/ $104.6K........... 2a. 98.01/ $104.6K
2b. 126.22/ $134.7K.........2b. 120.21/ $128.3K.......... 2b. 114.51/ 122.2K
3. 132.89/ $141.9K...........3. 126.56/ $135.1K........... 3. 120.47/ $128.6K

Hourly rates go up 2-3% each year until year 12.
Individual fleet divisors may change. A330 currently 160. A380 currently 180.

Avg O/T per BP
50*...................................... 29.................................3


First Officer.
Using Year 12 rate only as that’s what they’re all on.
Using 160 min guarantee. Most divisors between 175- 185

A380.......................... B744.......................... A330.
215.18/ $229.7K.......... 204.93/ $218.8K......... 195.15/ $208.3K

Average O/T
46*.............................. 23.............................. 3.


Captain
Divisor and notes as per F/O

A380........................... B744............................ A330
326.07/ $348.1K........... 310.55/ $331.5K............ 295.76/ $315.7K

Average o/t
45*............................... 25.................................3.


* Note that the 380 o/t numbers will decrease dramatically when the 380 reverts to one LHR flight via SIN. Likely to be closer to 30.

I’ll come back to 787 rates another day.

[knobbycobby]

What’s a plumber on these days about $200k plus.
A decent builder $400k plus.
Head of Qantas domestic $8,800,000
CEO $25,000,000