NATS prepare to launch free pre-flight planning tool

[NATS Infringements]

Some of you will know that NATS having been working for the past months on a project to make planning a VFR flight safer and easier.

We believe that some key functionality is essential in any such pre-flight planning tool and must include the following:

• Simple user interface
• Free at point of use
• Graphical NOTAM depiction
• Generates alerts when a planned route interacts with controlled or restricted airspace
• Generates basic Pilot’s Log
• Comprehensive VFR database

NATS have been looking hard for products that incorporate this functionality and for a way of acknowledging the clear safety benefits that any such product would bring to the GA community.

We are nearly there! Beta testing is well underway of a truly innovative and exciting tool developed by a well known and respected UK company who already specialise in VFR Flight Planning and In-flight GPS.

Watch this space for updates as we approach a launch date in time for the Easter Weekend.

In the meantime, if you feel you would like to be one of a small team of Beta testers to help in the final stages of validating the tool, then please PM me.

[NATS Infringements]

Thank you to the huge number of people who have volunteered to Beta test this exciting tool. We now have more than enough testers and already a huge amount of very positive feedback. So if you have not been asked to test the software, don't worry, you will get your chance to play with the completed product for free in just a few days.

[Rugbyears]

Very exciting indeed!

[Felix Saddler]

Fantastic!

[NATS Infringements]

I am delighted to now be able to disclose the company that NATS have been working with to bring the UK General Aviation community a free VFR pre-flight planning tool is SkyDemon (http://www.skydemon.aero).

SkyDemon are already known and respected throughout the community for their SkyDemon Plan software (http://www.skydemon.aero/plan/). They have been working incredibly hard in conjunction with NATS to produce a streamlined, on-line version, free at the point of use, which delivers key functionality that we believe is essential to the safe planning and execution of a VFR flight. The name of this exciting tool is SkyDemon Light.

Over the next few days we hope to be able to formally acknowledge and endorse this key safety functionality in SkyDemon's product and jointly declare the tool operational but in the meantime we need your help to continue our programme of Beta testing. We would like to thank our original team of Beta testers for their comments and support and now extend the offer all PPRuNe Private Flying forum members to try out and evaluate SkyDemon Light.

The link to the prototype is www.SkyDemonLight.com/airspace.html (http://www.skydemonlight.com/airspace.html) The application will prompt you to install the Microsoft Plug-In, Silverlight on your computer but in practice this is already resident on many peoples systems.

Please post your comments and thoughts back to the thread and Tim Dawson from SkyDemon together with NATS Research & Development Team will monitor your posts to help us complete the Beta test phase and declare SkyDemon Light operational.

[Ryan5252]

Are there any plans afoot to fill in the blank spaces which occur in NI on the UK side of the FIR. Even better, is there any plans to include ROI in this application?

[GyroSteve]

I've had a quick play and it looks great. The one obvious thing that is missing is roads!

As someone who flies a relatively slow aircraft which isn't allowed to fly over built-up areas I often use road and / or railway junctions as turning points. The current map setup makes those very difficult to identify easily which in turn diminishes the value of the plog function.

[avonflyer]

Agree roads would be handy or the ability to put in custom points so you can build in turning points. BUT in general it is very good.

[Zulu Alpha]

It would be good for users to be able to add their own airfield. Our strip is missing.

It would be good if you could see the plog. clicking the button marked PLOG didn't do anything. A PLOG with frequencies would make it great.

There were a lot of NOTAMS etc that just said "not plotted on chart" or something similar when you click them

Otherwise it was quite good, but a little slow on my computer. I am running Chrome with a 4-5Mb/sec Broadband. Google Earth and Maps both redraw noticeably faster.

[englishal]

I'm glad NATS is teaming up with Skydemon. I was going to suggest otherwise why re-invent the wheel, when there are many good products out there.

I use Skydemon for all my flight planning currently and it is brilliant.

[avonflyer]

The plog comes as a pop up. check to see if you have pop ups blocked. they are simple plogs and do not have a space for frequencies at present.. But after all it is free....

[Bobby Hart]

Even better, is there any plans to include ROI in this application?

The scope of this project has pretty much just been the UK. Who knows how far this will reach in the future? In the meantime, other countries remain served by the "full fat" SkyDemon Plan

It would be good for users to be able to add their own airfield. Our strip is missing.

As it happens, another project that we are working on in the background is a huge database of UK strips which will then be fed into SkyDemon. If a strip is not there, then drop us an email/PM with details, and we can add it or just wait and see if it appears with the fruits of my labours!

There were a lot of NOTAMS etc that just said "not plotted on chart" or something similar when you click them

Quite right. Sometimes (excellent example being the Red Arrows) it's impractical to draw all NOTAMs, but we still provide the briefing for them.


The plog comes as a pop up. check to see if you have pop ups blocked.

Pop ups seem to be an issue with Google Chrome in particular, but disabling pop-up blocker or allowing pop ups for this site will be helpful for all browsers. We dont use pop-up ads at SkyDemon. We have taste and class! :)

[m.Berger]

I'm a student so new to flight planning. I'm blown away by this. It is truly wonderful and I'l be making good use of it.

[WelshHopper]

I'm a student so new to flight planning. I'm blown away by this. It is truly wonderful and I'l be making good use of it.


Same here! I've got the purchased version of SkyDemon (As a trial at the moment), and I think it's great!

The web version, for a freebie, seems brilliant too.

[Deeday]

Quite impressive :D and thanks a lot to whoever has paid for it ;)

The No. 1 item on my wish-list is the ability to set different altitudes for different legs of the route, or have I missed how to do it?

Keep up the good work! :ok:

[FlyingForFun]

Overall, I'd say it's excellent.

One minor point though, after having had a short play with it: I take it Alderney airport will be adding handling facilities for sea-planes, since it appears to be in the sea???

FFF
-------------

[Bobby Hart]

I take it Alderney airport will be adding handling facilities for sea-planes, since it appears to be in the sea???


Consider it noted. :)

[dc9-32]

anyone else have issues installing Silverlight ?? I have windows 7, 64 bit and it is apparently not supported (64bit that is).

[WelshHopper]

anyone else have issues installing Silverlight ?? I have windows 7, 64 bit and it is apparently not supported (64bit that is).
Windows 7, comes with two versions of IE "Internet Explorer" and "Internet Explorer (64-Bit)", ensure you use the x86 plain version and it should work okay.

I managed to use Silverlight this way for this site with no problems.

Or use Firefox! :)

WH :ok:

[MrAverage]

At last a decent replacement for fly.dsc !

[Anonystude]

Hmm, doesn't seem to work on one computer (Firefox 3.6.16) but does on a different computer (also Ffx 3.6.16). Both Windows 7 with Silverlight working perfectly otherwise on both machines...

The non-functioning version gets as far as the blue welcome screen but then doesn't do anything when I click on the green "I Agree" button.

[Zulu Alpha]

PLOG now works if I allow pop ups

How do I get the correct airspeed for my aircraft?

[avonflyer]

click on airspeed and type it in -same for wind direction velocity

[dstevens]

I would like to pass on my congratulations to the team who put this together - for a "version 0.1" it is VERY impressive. I use an Apple Mac with Safari, and had no problems downloading Silverlight or using the app....all very intuitive, and once I switched off the Safari pop-up blocker, created a Plog with ease.

Very commendable. I watch the progress of this app with growing interest.

[IO540]

It seems to work OK on my Thinkpad x60s running winXP SP3.

A very neat application.

But there is nothing on the map outside the UK - not even Le Touquet :)

It does make one smile to see NATS doing something about this, while the CAA is still basically washing its hands of formally introducing GPS in the PPL syllabus.

[Zulu Alpha]

click on airspeed and type it in -same for wind direction velocity

I see, but you have to do this when you first start it up. Trouble is you can't do this once you have created a route, so no chance to plan the route today and modify on the day of flight for the actual wind.

It is quite nice but a bit too restricted. Not sure whether I want to pay £100+ for the full version to avoid these problems.

For Notams it is OK but this is also good and seems to work faster.
UK 48-Hour Notams : Warnings and Restrictions (http://metutil.appspot.com/static/maps/48HourWarningRestrictionMap.htm)

[Tim Dawson]

Zulu Alpha, you can alter the wind speed or your proposed IAS at any time. I'm not sure where this idea that we've somehow stopped you from doing so has come from.

Reading the documentation will certainly help everyone get the most from the tool.

[Zulu Alpha]

Maybe its Chrome, but when I start the planner, there is a box for airspeed and wind and I can change it.

When I create a route by clicking on the chart the box disappears and there isn't a tab or a menu to get it back again.


Revised:
OK all is clear now. I had so many warnings about MATZ ATZs that the airspeed and wind has disappeared off the bottom of the screen

[tmmorris]

Presumably it being Silverlight based it won't run on the iPad?

A shame, as it could presumably have been coded in HTML 5 instead...

Still, a great step forward, and the timing is good - in good time for all those flight plans during the Olympics!

Tim

[jxc]

If nats really want to help maybe they should just buy skydemon and let us all have it for free (sky demon can I have a cut for trying to make you alot of money ? ) :E

[stevelup]

A shame, as it could presumably have been coded in HTML 5 instead...

Of course it couldn't....

[jkveenstra]

Great tool. I'm already a user of the full version, and indeed it's a great tool.

I wish our ATC/CAA in the Netherlands was as assertive as the UK CAA in informing VFR flyers. The user base in the Netherlands is probably probably to small.

Keep up the good work!

[ScouseFlyer]

Well done NATS looks a great bit of kit.

SF

[CruiseAttitude]

Agreed, this really is a fantastic tool. Very well done NATS and SkyDemon :ok:

[Kolossi]

An awesome tool, and is this the first "official" app to support approved visualisation of NOTAMs?

Just one minor thing I noticed - when you get down to the highest zoom level, the handy primary runway direction marker disappears from the airfield symbol. Applies to both IE7 and Chrome v10.0.648.204 on Windows XP. Any chance that could be fixed up?

Also agree that roads and railways are key nav features and it would be great if they could be included.

[IO540]

Does the use of this tool provide a legal equivalent to using the NATS notam site, to check for notams?

If so, that is excellent.

Presumably the lack of non-UK support is intentional, although supporting near France (e.g. LTQ) would have been a good idea.

[dc9-32]

Windows 7, comes with two versions of IE "Internet Explorer" and "Internet Explorer (64-Bit)", ensure you use the x86 plain version and it should work okay.

How does one switch to x86 plain version ??

[CruiseAttitude]

How does one switch to x86 plain version ??

In Windows 7 click Start > All Programs, you should then see two Internet Explorer shortcuts, one for the x86 version which is just 'Internet Explorer' and the other for the x64 version which is 'Internet Explorer (64-bit)'.

[dc9-32]

thanks. I tried both and still unable to install. :ugh:

[Tagron]

One improvement I could suggest is to enable the insertion of different wind values for different legs of the same route. Although not necessary for shorter flights it would certainly be desirable for (e.g) southern UK to Scotland and vice versa. It would be normal to expect significant wind variations on this route.

And there I was about to buy the full version when the freebie appears. But having now tried the Lite I am sufficiently impressed to proceed with my purchase. The European interface is the deciding factor.

[Justiciar]

There is a sad tendency to be overcritical. This seems to me to be a bold effort, though I shall almost certainly buy the full product, which greatly impresses me.

Is this the final official recognition that flight planning with chart and protractor is not fit for purpose in the 21st century? Given that this comes via NATS Infringement section we can assume that it is driven by safety issues surrounding incursions. No one can deny that plotting on this sort of tool is better than reading off tracks from a protractor on a chart.

I do tend to agree though that the ideal development would be a software version that can be downloaded for those occasions when there is no internet connection available. This surely cannot be too difficult as it seems to be based upon the full version of the program?

[WelshHopper]

I do tend to agree though that the ideal development would be a software version that can be downloaded for those occasions when there is no internet connection available. This surely cannot be too difficult as it seems to be based upon the full version of the program?

The problem is, even the full version relies on it's internet connection, due to the Notams/weather being held as a data source located on an internet based server. So whilst you could use it (the full program, or any available "offline" version) for basic flight planning, it would not have the most recent flight planning information. With that in mind I couldn't really see NATS endorsing an offline version.

Just my opinion of course :O

WelshHopper :ok:

[Tim Dawson]

It would be relatively trivial for us to enable an "Install" button that installed the software to your computer and created a shortcut on your desktop. We'd need to cache the NOTAM briefing and display an appropriate warning (something like "NOTAM briefing is 4 hours old") but then arriving at the airfield and getting a brief for a change of plan would be possible.

A NOTAM briefing that's 4 hours old isn't necessarily unsafe, though clearly a more recent one is preferable. After all, getting a NOTAM briefing in the morning and flying in the afternoon is not an unusual thing to do. It relies on the authorities not publishing NOTAM for important/dangerous events at the last minute.

[mikehallam]

Best thing, if NATS can provide it, is at least to display the std 1/2 million UK Charts. They do on the 'sister' kit the AWARE gps - used airborne.

It would make planning and operation more of a seamless back to back affair.

mike hallam.

[MFC_Fly]

Best thing, if NATS can provide it, is at least to display the std 1/2 million UK Charts. They do on the 'sister' kit the AWARE gps - used airborne.

I disagree. The beauty of SkyDemon, and presumably this on-line version, is that the displayed data is updated with every AIRAC cycle, i.e. every 4 weeks. CAA charts are only updated (roughly) yearly and all intermediate changes need to be amended by hand or, more likely, not :ooh:

The charts look close enough to the CAA ones to make them more than acceptable.

Since some of the functionality that I paid for in the full version is now available for free it would be nice to see a reduction in our annual subscription Tim :ok:

MFC

[mikehallam]

BUT the AWARE mapping system actually does update monthly, so why not the planning chart ?

mike hallam

[Tim Dawson]

Actually, it doesn't. Airspace is updated every 28 days but the map is not. This can lead to airspace data (against which warnings are generated) being out of sync with the map.

[MFC_Fly]

As Tim says, the Aware maps are the standard ones you get on paper (although from the digital mapping data and not simply scanned paper charts) and are only updated at the same time, and the updated charts are not free. It is only the airspace data that is updated every 4 weeks with Aware, so you may very likely see the chart display one thing and the overlaid Aware data (in horrible colours, IMHO) another!

What about our discount Tim? A bit late for me though, having just renewed for another 12 months :ok:

MFC

[stevelup]

Best thing, if NATS can provide it, is at least to display the std 1/2 million UK Charts.

I too disagree - the best thing about SkyDemon is the vector charts.

[bad bear]

as a non aeroplane person, picking up on comments from the gliding website, it would be good if this tool warned of areas of intense gliding activity as depicted on 1;500,000 map and WARNED OF WINCH CABLES at gliding sites.... sometimes up to 3,000' or more.

great idea by the way.

bb

[ozbeck]

I love the simplicity of the SkyDemon chart for planning, even though I use an Airbox Clarity with the CAA charts whilst in the air.

I always have a niggling doubt when something calculates the plog for me that I have not 'absorbed' the wind and heading information fully, and don't have the same feel for the route as I would if I had calculated from scratch.

That makes me a bit of a Ludite, however, a wind arrow displayed on the chart (according to the input wind velocity) would certainly help provide this overall picture more fully.

Just an idea and don't know if any of the other systems do this.

[WelshHopper]

as a non aeroplane person, picking up on comments from the gliding website, it would be good if this tool warned of areas of intense gliding activity as depicted on 1;500,000 map and WARNED OF WINCH CABLES at gliding sites.... sometimes up to 3,000' or more.


I know the paid version of SkyDemon has this functionality (There is a little button to turn it on), would be great if the free version could warn for these sites as welll.

[stevelup]

Unless I'm missing something, it does?

All the sporting sites (gliding, hang gliding and parachuting) appear on the chart, and if you hover the mouse it shows you the cable height of gliding sites.

[chrisN]

I must be thick, so please bear with me – I don’t understand what Tim D and MFC said above.

If airspace digital data are updated with AIRAC cycles, and those are loaded into AWARE and/or this latest thing, why is the “map” not updated? What map?

Obviously, not a paper chart you carry with you – that only gets updated if you apply pen and ink to it.

Are you saying that the screens on these devices show an un-updated airspace map, while updated airspace data is nevertheless resident now on the device?

If so, whose bright idea was that?

Puzzled of Haverhill.

[stevelup]

The airspace definitions on the Aware device are updated on the AIRAC cycle but the underlying charts are not - just like your paper chart isn't. You need to buy a new digital chart for the device once a year, again just like your paper chart.

So for example this autumn when Lyneham CTR and CTA are disestablished, the Aware and all the other devices using raster maps will still show the airspace on the screen until the following March. They will of course not alert you any more though.

By contrast, that airspace will disappear from the display completely on vector based devices such as SkyDemon.

[lordhedges]

Not true Steve - The Aware will always alert you if it's been updated as the airspace definitions are what you are updating - these are displayed as vectors over the raster maps.

[stevelup]

You need to read what I wrote again. That's exactly what I said....

...that the alerts will reflect the current airspace but the underlying chart won't!

[dc9-32]

well I still can't get Silverlight to install, using either versions of IE :ugh:

[stevelup]

Perhaps worth trying to do it via the Microsoft Site (http://www.microsoft.com/getsilverlight)?

[dc9-32]

Thanks Steve - tried that before and no good either :*

[stevelup]

What about using a different browser? I don't actually know a single person who uses IE!

[dc9-32]

It works fine on IE8 on one PC (32bit) but the other PC (64bit) it won't install. Trouble is, I want it on the 64bit PC.......

[cats_five]

No problem here on W7x64.

[Rugbyears]

Ok, I've installed the plug-in ....What do you do next?:O

[Tim Dawson]

Just go to the SkyDemon Light website, if you've installed the plugin, and you'll see SkyDemon load. If you haven't installed the plugin, it will prompt you to load it.

SkyDemon Light (http://www.skydemonlight.com/airspace.html)

dc9: Are you trying to run it in a 64bit browser? I don't think there are many browser plugins that support 64bit browsers (Silverlight and Flash included). Run the non-64-bit version of your browser instead.

[CruiseAttitude]

Off topic, but you can get a 64-bit version of Flash from here:
Download Flash Player "Square" Beta Preview Release - Adobe Labs (http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10_square.html)

[dc9-32]

According to NATS, it will work on windows 7, 64bit - but it won't :confused:

[Tim Dawson]

There are many people using SkyDemon Light on Windows 7 64bit. You haven't yet said whether you have tried your IE (non-64bit) or another browser.

[WelshHopper]

According to NATS, it will work on windows 7, 64bit - but it won't

Are you using a corporate (e.g. companies) computer? If so, you may be denied the ability to install plugins.

If not...

1. Uninstall the Silverlight SDK/Plugin via Add/Remove Programmes.

2. Clear out your temporary internet files.

3. Visit the site and start again.

It could be because the plugin didn't install corectly first time.

WH :ok:

[dc9-32]

WelshHopper

Private PC at home. I have two PC's. One with 32bit, it works, one with 64bit, it won't work. Both windows 7, IE9.

I did as you suggested and I still get this..

Microsoft Silverlight cannot be used in browsers running in 64 bit mode.
You are running on a browser that may not be fully compatible with Microsoft Silverlight. You can still try to install by clicking below or you can refer to the System Requirements for more information.

[CruiseAttitude]

dc9,

It works perfectly on my Windows 7 64-bit laptop. You need to make sure that you are using the 32-bit version of Internet Explorer.

In Windows 7 click Start > All Programs, you should then see two Internet Explorer shortcuts, one for the 32-bit version which is just 'Internet Explorer' and the other for the x64 version which is 'Internet Explorer (64-bit)'.

Make sure you use the 'Internet Explorer' shortcut. On a clean install of Windows 7 x64 the 32-bit version of IE is still set as the default browser.

To be sure you are using the 32-bit version, open Internet Explorer using the method above. Hold down the Alt key, then click Help > About. Make sure it DOES NOT say '64-bit Edition' next to the version number.

Good luck.

EDIT: dc9, sorry, I see from an earlier post that you have already tried this. Make sure its not the 64-bit Edition that is being launched by checking the about box.

[dc9-32]

CRUISE

I made no changes to what was installed yesterday, but today, it installed fine and works a treat. Thanks everyone.

[NATS Infringements]

I am delighted to say that NATS have concluded it's Beta testing and evaluation of SkyDemon Light. Thank you so much to all the PPRuNe members who contributed to the process and I hope that you will note that some of your suggestions and comments have featured as changes to the functionality in the delivered product. I have started a new thread to introduce the operational version and myself together with Tim and Rob from SkyDemon will continue to monitor your feedback there.

See: http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/448264-free-skydemon-nats-pre-flight-planning-tool-ga-safety.html