VFR flight to North Africa

[Felix Saddler]

I'm looking to plan and fly from the UK to North Africa in a C152, or perhaps a pa28.
Has anyone any useful info regarding how best to plan for it;what to expect it to cost; what equipment to bring; how long it'll take; and what possible routes to take; or anything else that i'll need to consider...
Tales of experience would be very useful!
Thanks in advance,
FS.

[172driver]

I take it you are not looking to test the no-fly zone(s) in the area, are you?

It would help if you could be a bit more specific - North Africa is a rather big place.

If you use the search (advanced!) function, you should find info I have posted about Morocco, also Sam Rutherford's info re Tunisia (although in view of current events there, not sure this is currently a viable destination)

[Felix Saddler]

I'm planning to fly to Morocco most likely, from the UK.
Have you experience flying this route?

[Mariner9]

Several forumites have flown to Morocco from the UK , Felix including me (I've done Tanger, Marrakech, Fez, and Tetouan). As suggested above, use the search function, and numerous posts will be revealed. If you have any specific questions after reading that lot feel free to post and we'll do our best to help :ok:

[IO540]

Here (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/crete/index.html) and here (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/santorini/index.html) are fairly detailed writeups on VFR trips I did in 2004/05 down to Crete and Santorini. They will get you started on charts, etc. Here (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/leax2/index.html) is one to Spain. All VFR.

Obviously in a C152 or similar you will need to do about 3x more stops than I did, which will take a lot longer because each stop introduces a variable delay and also a new piece of weather risk. The routes will also be different; not straight across the Alps.

From Crete or Spain, it is a short hop to N Africa. The challenges will be avgas, PPR, logistical stuff like that. Most African countries need permits to go there, both for overflight and for a landing. Morocco has been described as relatively easy but with not a lot to see.

I have never been to Africa in the TB20 but planned for Luxor (easy enough but v. pricey avgas and stories of having to bribe somebody with ~ US$2000 to get back out, which doesn't suprise me as I've been there 2x and you can't walk 10m as a tourist without somebody trying to rip you off) and Libya (hard because you needed to find a "local sponsor").

All people I know who have actually flown to Africa and did not make a total hash of it have used overflight permit companies to do the paperwork outside Europe. These countries are mostly deeply corrupt and to get the permits one has to bribe the right aviation ministry officials, and this is why you need the agents. I've got the names of several agents on the site but can't speak for any of them personally. I've heard very variable stories on how diligent they are...

Personally speaking, there is enough to see in Europe, and as one flies more to the south one finds the crap on the ground gradually increases, and for me Africa would be too much crap in relation to the flying enjoyment which is basically the scenery from the air. Apart from the well trodden sites in Egypt (Cairo, Luxor, Aswan) where the avgas situation is "interesting", there appears to be little in the way of stunning airborne scenery along N Africa. Of course it can be done and loads of people have flown in "spamcans" all the way to Cape Town but I am just saying this so you appreciate the logistics won't be trivial, and I've read enough of the accounts to know that if somebody tells you it is trivial, they have never done it. Then again, some people are "perpetually retired travellers" and enjoy any adventure and you may be one of those :)

[FlyingStone]

Since nobody mentioned it yet: make sure your insurance covers all states you intend to overfly or land in. One might be very surprised when he sees that most aircraft are insured for Europe countries (sometimes not even all, Moldova, Georgia and alike may be excluded).

[172driver]

Morocco has been described as relatively easy but with not a lot to see.

Interesting comment - are there any blind pilots out there ?
:ugh:

[VOD80]

I don't agree with IO540's comment, but I love Morocco, albeit only having been there by Land Rover so far. It is very beautiful.

Here is an account of a trip made by C172, visiting some of the "back country" airports. All in French but quite a few pictures. One of these days... me too!

Gruy'Air Voyages - Un Cessna au Maroc - Mars 2006 (http://www.aerodrome-gruyere.ch/blogs/voyage?c=1&more=1&p=56&pb=1&tb=1)

[IO540]

I did say it wasn't my description :)

My recollection of Morocco was that I could not eat any of the food :) :) It was the first country I had been to where there was simply nothing edible.

[S-Works]

Morocco is a really nice trip to do. I have done it a few times now in the 172. The first time I went I went down through France to Perpignan and then along the spanish coast to cross over at Gibralter. Route was Leicester-Cherbourg-Biarittz-Perpignan. Then into Spain to Le Juliana near Seville then Seville to Morocco.

Second time I went through Spain. Cherbourg-Biaritz-San Santander-Le Juliana and then across.

You do need an aircraft with good legs especially if routing through Spain as there are fewer options for refuel stops.

Morocco is really pretty and the Atlas mountains are worth a look. It is a very typical north african country and as much as I hate to agree with IO540 the quality of the food is a little shall we say 'debatable'! But it is just about edible!

It is a great trip to do.

[24Carrot]

Wow! An opportunity to disagree with bose-x and IO540 simultaneously!:D

I have never flown there, but I have spent some time in Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia and I found the food there rather tasty. I grant you, hygiene was sometimes an issue.

[VOD80]

I'm with 24Carrot on this!

I've had some excellent tajines and some good couscous. It's true that there isn't a whole pile of variety but, for this, there are quite a few French expats with hotels and restaurants!

[Felix Saddler]

Many thanks for the shared links and information you've provided.
As far as fuel consumption goes, and considering the aircraft being flown -c150/2 or possibly PA28 - would you suggest sticking to legs no longer than 200nm?
I'm looking to raise money for a particular African children's charity for which is the purpose behind this flight. I shall cover the expenses of the trip myself.
The a/c I'll fly is £34hr dry. What should one expect to budget for fuel, fees, equipment hire, etc...
Thanks again,

F

[IO540]

would you suggest sticking to legs no longer than 200nm?

Only you can answer that.

Have you got a PPL?

You need to establish your aircraft's actual range, for various power settings, and then plan the route according to that, and what airports are available which can accept your flight, have avgas, etc.

200nm sounds OK for a C152. Its zero-fuel range in best-economy cruise power is more than that (300nm? - it is 10 years since I flew them) but in reality you will be limited by airports.

[Katamarino]

I've done 325nm in a C152 between refuelling stops. 200 would be easy.

[IO540]

What amazed me when I used to fly them was that nobody actually knew the real range.

They were of course flown full-rich so the range was about 20-30% less that it should be, but even then nobody knew. They worked on the tech log being OK for "3 hours" or whatever, but nobody actually checked how much was left in the tank when they filled up, against expectations.

If I was flying seriously in a C152 or similar I would measure the fuel flow accurately, using test flights.

[Felix Saddler]

Yes I have a ppl & nr although I'm not greatly experienced. I plan to do a few trips around the UK and Northern France before attempting this.
The route I've looked at Is: Cambridge - Cherbourg - La rochelle - Biarritz - perpignan - along spanish coast to Gibraltar - Casablanca - Marrakech.
I've not got the Charts as of yet and have planned this purely hypothetically using google earth. Could anyone shine some light on whether this kind of route will be possible with regards to airspace, avgas, clearances etc...
Is a stop off in Tanger compulsory to clear Customs? Or can this be done in Casablanca?
Finally, what would be the most suitable fuel stop along the southern spanish coast line between perpignan and Gibraltar?
Thanks,
F

[172driver]

Route is doable, no big probs. French airspace looks intimidating at first glance - until you realize that most mil airspace is very low-level. Get one of the French charts that depict the VFR 'corridors' and you'll be fine. Avoid fuel stops at lunch hour, though....

Spain: be aware that AENA has hiked the landing fees. At most airports they are still reasonable, but have a look at their website (free registration) first.

If you land at Girona, refuel before parking - the bowser is at the opposite end of the field to the transient parking area!

Heading south from there, you have several options where to stop/refuel. Program the Barcelone VFR route into your GPS and have a good lookout in the Sabadell area - unless you land there you'll be overflying a very busy airfield with lots of training! Only place to avoid at pretty much all cost is Valencia - expensive landing fees and mandatory handling! Alicante is nice. There are also a few smaller fields (like Muchamiel near Alicante), but check Avgas situation with them first. Download the charts from the AENA site and have them handy - the VRPs in Spain usually have two names, i.e. an 'international' one such as N1, and a local one. Both are on the charts and Spanish pilots will mostly use the local ones. Helps with situational awareness....

Gibraltar: This one's a bit tricky. They need 24H PPR (could also be 48H, not sure right now, don't have docs to hand). They will fax or email you a few documents, mainly pertaining to their arrival/departure procedures and, specifically, the windshear there. This is NOT to be taken lightly - the Monarch and BA flights to Gib quite regularly divert to Malaga. What's more, you need to leave Spain from a customs field. In the South, this means Granada, Malaga, Seville and Jerez. Be aware, that Malaga is IFR only Thur-Sun inclusive for most of the year. Check the NOTAMs.

Realistically, I would probably avoid Gib and do either Granada or Jerez to Tangiers. Contrary to some myths, you do not need to land there, but it's your best bet to get info re Moroccan airspace and routes. Take a WAC chart and copy the routes off of their wall chart there.

In Morocco you have to fly VFR routes (see above). Casa isn't much to look at (and the route along the coast is rather boring), much nicer to go via Fez. Avoid landing in Tetouan, though, must be the most unpleasant airport in the whole country. Be aware, that overflying any of the royal palaces is a big NO-NO in Morocco (this includes the city of Fez).

Marrakech is a big international airport, no probs there.

Enjoy!

[Felix Saddler]

172Driver thank you!
In terms of planning would anyone recommend either Navbox Pro or Flitemap 9?
Obviously the charts are still essential and will be needed also. Where can I find French and Spanish VFR charts?
F

[24Carrot]

French charts, VFR folder, etc can be bought here:
SIA - La reference en information aronautique (http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/default_uk.htm)

I believe the new ones are just about to come out.

[172driver]

For Spain use the Jeppesen ones, the Spanish ones are crap. The Morocco ones are almost impossible to find outside the country. Get WACs and copy the route(s) off at Tangiers. Here's a link to a Moroccan GA site (http://www.flightsystem.net/). Good luck.

[patowalker]

and here is a link to the AIS Service de l'Information Aéronautique du Maroc (http://www.sia-aviation.gov.ma/)

[Felix Saddler]

A great big thank you to all of you who have thus far provided me with incredible amounts of information and support! It'll take some time for me to go through everything you've pm'd me and written on here, but i'm sure i'll have more questions to follow!
In the mean time i've created a provisional fundraising page for you all to follow and be kept up to date with. I'm yet to properly release it to possible fundraisers as i'm waiting until i've got the whole thing planned and set in stone - but feel free to help, support, and donate :-). I've got a few corporate sponsors lined up so hopefully we'll all be able to rally together to hit my target!
I'll be writing up a blog and possibly a website for this and future fundraising flights.
Again thank you all very much!

Kindest regards,

Felix.

[PompeyPaul]

I'm just wondering if you flew this in the end ? If so, what route did you go ? I'm thinking of something similar. A rough, course grain, view on SkyDemon suggests (roughly):

4h to North coast of Spain
4h to South coast of Spain
4h to Morocco.

So that's 6 days in total, 2 pilots with stopovers should be able to do it.

My main worry:

1. French AIS / RT
2. Spanish AIS / RT
3. Working out if I can leave from one airfield to another country

[IO540]

ATC at International airports (ones with Customs) is supposed to speak English.

It is only if you rely on the Schengen concession, or do non-border-crossing flights, that you can end up at airports where ATC genuinely does not speak English, and then you have to know enough of the local language to get by.

That's the choice you make in aviation... same as you make when you go to Country X for a holiday and walk into a shop and ask for 3 bananas :)

Worth a mention that even if ATC speaks English, there is NO obligation for any ground workers to do so and this can sometimes result in "interesting" situations :) I recall phoning up Pamplona re avgas availability and after spelling alpha victor golf alpha sierra about 5 times I gave up and flew elsewhere.

Regarding working out which airports can be used, basically it comes down to Schengen or non-Sch, and of non- then you need Customs. This (http://www.handbook.aero/hb_airports.html) is quite a good free site for airport data. Personally, I contact every foreign airport I fly to, unless it is a known well organised H24 one e.g. Prague.

I have some notes on this - sent.

[PompeyPaul]

Thanks for the info. How do you know you'll be received by an airfield though ? It wouldn't cross my mind that I could get into Prague, I thought it'd be a similar gig to LHR. I.e. technically possible, but realistically I'd never meet the requirements ? Thanks for the notes BTW.

[IO540]

Apart from Heathrow and London City, and Malaga which bans VFR on some days, and no doubt others I don't know about, you can fly VFR or IFR to any airport in Europe.

Gatwick is 24hrs PPR and ~£500; similarly with Luton, Stansted, Frankfurt, Munich, etc, etc. But you "can" just fly there. All the big ones are "mandatory handling" and you just get a super smooth handling agent (used to doing bizjets at £1000 a pop) who sorts everything out - unlike the airport admin dept which is often run by total morons. This is, Sir, how aviation is supposed to work :) Check out Harrods Handling at Luton. And it does work. Very slick, usually. The handling agent will, if appropriate, bribe the airport manager to lubricate the PPR and find parking... (Italy, Greece). They even hand you tafs/metars before you depart :)

Then you have loads of £200 airports. Prague is getting that way. I paid that in Tirana. Athens. Aberdeen...

Then you have loads of £100 airports; too many to start to mention.

We all know the £50 ones: Bournemouth, Norwich, etc.

But you can fly to all of these. Just costs money, and sometimes PPR.

The UK is quite unusual with LHR and LCY in the total GA ban.

[werewolf]

Bossy's VFR France chart, direct from publisher (paypal possible) :
Editerra - Cartographie - SIG - Cartes Internet / Cartography - GIS - Internet Maps (http://www.editerra.fr/rubrique.php?id_rubrique=2)
paper charts, CD rom, downloading (téléchargement), paper chart +downloading, Delage French airfields plates ....

[M.ZEADAN]

I can give you information’s only for Egypt
VFR flights need a military permit and usually MID don’t issue
flight level must be over 085:ugh:

[Katamarino]

These are the guys to talk to for Egypt! :ok:

General Aviation Support Egypt (http://www.gasupportegypt.com/)

[500 above]

We use Tiger Aviation Services in Egypt. Have also used ZAS there. Tiger are pretty good and will arrange all clearances. Be advised if you intend to visit Alexandria, tie downs for light aircraft are not available. Seen a few light aircraft come unstuck that way. Never let the handling agent away from the aircraft until ATC verify the FPL! Maybe the poster above me would be better for light aircraft, we only take a biz jet in there.

[Felix Saddler]

For those of you wondering how it went... it didn't, or hasn't just yet.
It's been re-scheduled for spring 2012 and information can be found on my website: Africa 12 (http://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/fundraiser-web/fundraiser/showFundraiserProfilePage.action?userUrl=flights4life)
For some reason pprune doesn't allow me to directly link it to here so just visit the link above and view the blog.
Thanks,

Felix.

[Felix Saddler]

Thanks C.A - much appreciated! :ok:
For those interested, the website has been updated.
Felix.

[Sam Rutherford]

...either before (although your plans look fairly under control), or if you hit a problem during your trip, then don't hesitate to get in touch.

We have a lot of contacts across the continent.

Fly safe, Sam.