Recency flying in India (for conversion)

[sam8808]

Hi everyone,

I'm an Australian CPL holder and am looking to convert my license here in India. I have passed the DGCA conversion exams. Now my main hurdle is the 6 month recency requirement. I'm planning on doing these hours in India itself. I'm not planning on getting a multi endorsement in India, just a CPL with single engine IR. Can anyone please recommend a genuine flying club in India that has a C172 in their fleet and will help me get my hours (and other requirements such as signal reception) done?

Any input is welcome.

Thanks

[jackcarls0n]

Hey Sam,

Are ya an Indian National? Just curious! Do you have an Indian CPL already? I thought the Indian DGCA doesnt issue you a Indian CPL if your a Foreign Citizen. (Even after you get your Written Tests etc out of the way)

I have heard Chimes Aviation is good. Another one that can help is Rainbow aviation. Also the one in Kanpur Garg Aviation is good. Got the info about them from sources and they said they are legitimate and good.

I have not flown in India. Have tried it but its always a hassle.

[sam8808]

Jack, thanks for your post. Yes I'm an Indian national. If I wasn't why on earth would I get myself stuck in Indian aviation?! Nope I don't have an Indian CPL, which is why I'm trying to convert my Australian CPL here.

Yeah lots of people have told me that recency flying in India will be a hassle. I know someone who took about 4-5 months to finish his recency flying with a flying club in Madhya Pradesh (can't remember if it was Chimes Aviation or not). 4-5 months for approx 30 hours?! Ridiculous.

I'm gonna spend couple more days trying to find a flying club in India who will do the recency flying within a month. If nothing comes out it, I might end up doing the flying in Oz itself.

Anyone else reading this please provide your input if you can.

[bayblade]

hi,
my friend's got a cpl from australia too. she's going to U.S for flying. there are many options if you plan to fly in u.s. its perhaps the best option in terms of flying- cheap, safe and hassle free.
goodluck.

[storm999]

DGCA does allow conversion of CPL if ur a foreign national with OCI ( overseas citizen of India)... have you guys come across anyone who has OCI and has been rejected for conversion?

[cyrilroy21]

@ Storm999

Look closely at the following thread

http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/434043-indian-dgca-licence.html

[jackcarls0n]

@ Sam, was just confirming... anyway, i hope things turn out easy for you. I have been trying to get in touch with the Clubs (flying school). I hardly get a reply. I guess better take a trip down there and discuss with them or the best option would be to travel to a non-indian subcontinent and get your flying like Thailand(u can get a ppl conversion done soon and its fun flying there not that expensive either)

About the conversion. They are people who have an OCI and still couldnt get the conversion at the last step(as per the thread here on PPrune). And they are people who are different Nationals other then india who have indian CPL and flying in India currently. So its quite a compicated thing I guess or I guess just depends on the mood of the DGCA people.

[FLYPINTU]

doing recency flying in india is a hassle.

1)you have to get you FRTOL from dgca which will take around 15 - 20 days

2) after getting your frtol you have to get your spl

3) after all this you can start your flying.........i cant find any goods flying school in india except IGRUA and RG flight academy,Gonida


i would suggest you to go back to australia or nz to do your recency flying.


cheers :ok:

[sam8808]

Looks like I get to visit Australia again. Thanks guys

[sam8808]

On a side note, what's the procedure for applying for FRTOL? Do we use the same form that is used to apply for issue of CPL? I already have my RTR(P) issued.

[teja.aluri]

Well let me explain to you what i have faced back in 2008, First of all you got to get enrolled in a flight school which then give you a ground school completion certificate(a letter) along with the mark sheet of a written exam conducted by the club. After then your chief ground instructor of your club/school will recommend you to DGCA examiner (kind of like signing off) who will then conduct an oral exam for you. upon satisfaction of the DGCA officer, you will then start a little paper work that you need to send to DGCA along with DD of 1000Rs for Initial issue that comes with one aircraft endorsed, you will need to send another 1000Rs or so for each additional add on. This after your paper work will take any were close to 1 month to get a letter of approvel from DGCA to issue you a SPL. This letter is received by the flight school and they then issue you a SPL. Now on your request your flight school will conduct a written exam (need not worry as the flight school manges the mark sheet for you:ok:) and you enclose this mark sheet, along with SPL DD of RS.5000/- along with FRTOL application Form and you could possibly expect another 30Days to get the FRTOL by post to you.

So this complets the Process of SPL and FRTOL, For your Understanding, With SPL alone you could fly along with an instructor, but with FRTOL you could go solo on your SPL. Since you already have an RTR you don't need an FRTOL, all you need is SPL to fly solo in India.
(RTR supersedes FRTOL)
So basically FRTOL permits a student pilot on board and indian aircraft to fly solo. :bored:

Well this was back 2 yr but not sure what is the exact procedure now followed. So just sharing my experience.

[sam8808]

Since you already have an RTR you don't need an FRTOL, all you need is SPL to fly solo in India. (RTR supersedes FRTOL)



Are you sure about that? My understanding was that RTR is sort of like a NOC from Ministry of Telecom telling DGCA that we are capable of operating an aircraft radio. And its the FRTOL that actually allows us to operate an aircraft radio.

The whole point in having an RTR which is different from FRTOL is unfathomable to me but if RTR supersedes FRTOL, what is the point in paying Rs5000 for an FRTOL?

[teja.aluri]

Well what you have said is true. but you again don't have to wast time to apply for an FRTOL Since with RTR(COP) u could fly solo. and pay the FRTOL at the time of applying for CPL.

Supersedes in terms of carrying documents not a substitute (My bad if you interpret it wrong).

Also to what i said earlier was an FRTOL(Restricted) that is only valid till private pilot check this link and see the Important instructions. http://dgca.nic.in/forms/crew-d/frtol.PDF
So you should by now figure out what would be needed there after.

[sam8808]

Got it. Thanks Teja

[ankit9690]

hey ,
i am planning to do my recency in India at Aligarh (Ambitions aviation academy) .I got the COP from WPC but now they tell me that I cant fly recency without the FRTOL issued from DGCA . So i had to postpone my flying. Now what am trying to figure out is how long does the DGCA take to issue the FRTOL?
please suggest what else can be done..
thanks

[Maverick 03]

That's right man..u need a FRTOL (issued by DGCA) and also a SPL to fly in India and for logging PIC hours.
I can tell u this coz I was also in the same situation few months back.:ok:

[sam8808]

Ankit, just out of curiosity why did you choose Ambitions Aviation Academy? Is it just a location preference or do you know that Ambitions is genuine in their operations? Also, since Ambitions only operate single engines, I presume you're only going for a single engine IR on your Indian CPL? If you don't mind me asking, what was your reason to opt for a single engine IR over a multi engine IR?

In answer to your question, Teja has already said in a previous post in this thread that the DGCA paperwork can take 1-2 months. As has been said by many people on this forum, recency flying in India will be a hassle.

[sam8808]

Maverick, since you said that you "were" in the same situation few months back, can I ask where did you end up doing your recency flying?

[Maverick 03]

I did my recency from the Madhya Pradesh Flying Club, Indore.
And if u want me to recommend then I wud say that u should go over dere as I think its one of the best flying club in India to do recency as the cfi over dere Mandar Mahajan is a real gentleman and also the other instructors n staff members. It took only 10 days for me to do the complete recency SE + ME.

I contacted Ambition Academy also but didn't go over there as they said that for Multi, I shall have to go to Agra.....it was just too much hassle whereas in Indore it was all cool breezer....recency, document stuff everything.

This is my opinion and if u have any other query, I wouldn't mind clearing them.

P.S.- You also need to have a SPL to log PIC hours in India.

[Maverick 03]

And also about doing the entire recency.....yes it takes around 1-2 months.

Firstly you need to get the FRTOL from DGCA, which takes around 30 days (I was lucky as I got it in 24 days).

Then you need to get a SPL. Now many people suggest different ways of getting it. I can tell you how I got it within 1 day (and trust me it was all genuine). I got my SPL from the Haryana Institute of Civil Aviation, Pinjore. Here I would like to add that although it is true that DGCA is the authority who can issue the SPL but there are some flying clubs (including this one) which have been authorised by the DGCA to issue SPL directly.
You just need to contact the cfi over there and he will tell you all the documents that u will need to bring and the fees (which is rs. 15,000: 5000 of which goes to DGCA and 10000 is kept by them which includes the examiner fees and extra surcharges:E)....and that's it...you will get ur SPL issued then and there itself, maybe within an hour.......and just to tell you there won't be any kind of test!!;)

Pretty easy stuff...I didn't find doing my recency tough..it all went pretty well...as I said I was lucky enough...I then got my CPL within 34 days of submission...:)

[teja.aluri]

How much is the cost of per hr flying in pinjore flying club? heard it's prices are competitive.

[Maverick 03]

As far as I remember, its around 7000 ph for 172

[Rob Sponge]

Folks,

Does anybody know about this new 'rule' that seems to have come into existence - that a 'graduation' will be the minimum requirement for an Indian CPL to be issued from now. Is that true? Somebody throw some light on that.

[NGav]

@Maverick 03 - about recency on ME....I have PA30 endorsed on my oz cpl. If MP flying club has a different M/E a/c, Do i have to do the technical exam etc before doing the recency ?

How much did it cost for the complete recency ?

appreciate you advise

[Maverick 03]

If you have got a PA30 endorsed on ur Oz CPL then first u need to check whether this aircraft is registered in the DGCA list of aircrafts or not (I'm pretty sure Commanche is registered here).
If it is registered then u just need to find out a flying school here in India which has this aircraft and you can get ur recency done.
You don't need to give the technical exam since the aircraft is already endorsed on ur Oz CPL.
FYI MP Flying Club does not have PA30.

The entire recency including ME costed me around 2.5-3 lakhs.

[NGav]

Thanks Maverick......Yes PA30 is on the DGCA website and as far as i know Carver Aviation has a commanche but has been decommisioned, So I might have to do another trip to oz

[Raavan]

I was in the opinion that flying in India is costly, but at Rs 7000/- an hour i think it is reasonable to fly here in India itself.
7000X200 to get a SE commercial is only 14lacs and i think in India the prices are flat, i mean no additional hr.ly charges to instructor, check ride fee or some hidden charges i see while training in US.

More over no hassle for recency :ugh:

Should be a nice deal to get CPL in India as well.

[NGav]

Thanks Maverick.....PA30 is on the dgca website and as far as i know only carver aviation had a commanche which has been decommisioned now !!

[sam8808]

Maverick, what all aircraft does MP Flying Club operate?

[NGav]

Just checked the list of A/C's accepted by DGCA -
http://www.dgca.nic.in/AD/Accepted_AC.pdf
This list doesnt have PA30 (twin commanche),Cessna 152 or a 150 !
Does it mean they have been removed from the register or are these in addition to the old list ?

[Maverick 03]

MP flying club has C152,172, P68 (Partenavia ME).

Damn that list of DGCA, never updated (never cared to be modified). I'm pretty sure its dere coz some of my friends had done rating on Commanche and have got it endorsed on their Indian license.

[cpl777]

Madhya Pradesh Flying Club is the worst place for flying.I did my recency training there and it took around three months to complete only 10 hours of single engine flying.I need to do the rest flying from other flying club.The Flight instructors there have zero knowledge and don't even talk to students politely.They think that they are the best flight instructors whereas they would be the least knowledgeable instructors.One of the instructor asked me to practice stall and recovery at just 1000 feet.Which you can understand is very dangerous if incase the aircraft spins then you do not have any chance to recover from that.

Also they had not refunded my money till yet.When I ask them to refund they say that it will not be refunded in any case.I will strongly not recommend to join there.They will just ask to deposit the complete money and do just half of the flying and then say that they do not have fuel or some of the the problem.

They also charge instructor charges apart from flying charges which no other flying club charges in India.

[equinox123]

@cpl777 and to all the other folks......I'm not here to endorse any flying school,however i would be more than happy to give a testimony on how I went forward doing my recency at Madhya Pradesh Flying Club.Initially i had my thoughts on doing my recency in India in the first place (I have an FAA Multi Engine CPL).....After talking to a few friends i decided to go to Karnal but pulled back at the last minute.My friend and I then decided to go to MPFC instead and i really hated the idea, until i really had a chance to meet the CFI face to face and discuss my conversion issue with him.The day i landed at MPFC was the day they made me do my day fam flight and the night fam flight.I was kinda shocked because i wasn't prepared thinking its an Indian flight school etc etc...
When i went to the office to sign the ORTHO that night, little did i notice that the CFI had planned all the flights for my friend and me in advance on a blank sheet of paper as per our individual needs and requirements making sure we do not log an extra minute more than we actually need for conversion.All we had to do is come early morning and just fly.And go home late in the night.Not to forget that at times we were offered a lift by the CFI himself.But that's besides the point.
@cpl777.....I respect your point of view and you are right in expressing it.However i am a little taken aback by the comments you made on the flight instructors.For them we were strangers too but they kinda did everything for us.In short all that was left for them to do was to feed us.All were so co-operative.Believe me on this i'm not kidding.I logged about 16 hours total (inclusive of instruments,fam flight,10 t/o landing in night,PIC cross countries) in a little under 6 days.
As per the charges of the instructor let me add that atleast they ain't charging you a service fee of 12.36 % on your total fee.Some flying clubs do that.Secondly the charge for flight instructors is Rs 120 an hour. Haven't you spent an exorbitant amount in a foreign country?I'm sure the instructor fee in the US would be somewhere around 20-25 $ an hour.So why crib here?..The aircraft's there are superbly maintained,all thanks to a dedicated team of AME's...Damn hardworking bunch of guys.... As for the Fuel, availability of fuel in India is a big problem because unlike the US you don't get it directly here.The Aviation Fuel in India is tested first for viscosity and many more such things before they give it to the flying clubs and to add to that they have a set Quota for each flying school.My friend in Bombay flying school had to sit for atleast a month or so because of nonavailability of fuel and mind you he wasn't doing his receny but all his 200 hours.
I was very happy with the way they handled our recency situation and thus i would recommend each one to go there an do your recency flying.Respects everybody's view here.To each it's own.

[cpl777]

Dear equinox123, thank you for the comments.As you will understand that every person has different thoughts and it matters from person to person.For you it might be that the Madhya Pradesh Flying Club and its instructors were best but for me they are the worst.

Also I would like to know that did you had Student Pilot License since you wrote in your comments that you had flown on the first day of your arrival or or they had allowed to fly the aircraft without Student Pilot License.As I had to wait for a month for the Student Pilot License exam.Also they informed that it is done once in a month.

Anyway has your CPL issued or its still pending with DGCA? They are taking a lot of time to issue the CPL. Mine is still pending.

Cheers

[sonydhiraj]

Hey Maverick, could you please tell me the procedure for getting the FRTOL issued.....i have the RTR-COP and am looking for any kind of application form for FRTOL which tells me about the documents required also.......haven't been able to find one till now!

[flyinindia]

Friends please suggest me a good flying club which could get my recency completed in least possible time and that too at little less cost.I had contacted a flight school in aligarh somewhat named Ambitions Flying Club.They are asking Rs.25,000 towards registration and Rs.11000 per hour for day, Rs.12000 for night, Rs.16,500 for day test, Rs.17,500 for night test and Rs.21,500 for IR check.My friend was telling that they also do not have permission to do flying checks by night at ALigarh and I will have to go to Jaipur.For which I will have to pay again extra charges.I think the charges are very high as compared to U.S.

What about Madhya Pradesh Flying Club charges?

[cpl777]

Don't go to Madhya Pradesh Flying Club.Read my above posts.When you will call them they will say that your flying will be completed in 5 days, 6 days or so but the flying never get completed in that time it will take months.Also they do not return the money back.Most of the time they do not have fuel.They will tell you that our flying rates are Rs.... but that rates do not include instructor charges nor they will tell you examiner fees which is in thousands per test.They will ask you for the same after the test and that too in cash without any receipt.

Recently my friend need to did Partenavia P-68 recency tests.They keep on saying that it will be completed in two days but when my friend reached their they told them that P-68 is down and no flying could be done.

I do not recommend anybody to go there and do their recency.

[flyinindia]

cpl777 thank you for the advise.I asked some one he also told me the same thing about the extra examiner fees.Please suggest me any other good flying club.