Bartolini Air Flight School

[felixflyer]

Hi

Just wondered whether anyone had any experience with Bartolini Air Flight School and could give me any feedback. Im thinking of going there to do my ME/IR.

Thanks.

[R-27]

Hi,
few things about FTO Bartolini:
1. This is the only FTO in Poland which owns Tecnam P2006T. Ventum Air on it's website informs that they have it as well, but at this moment it's not true yet. At this moment they have only one C-152 ready to fly, the rest of the airplanes on the website it's only commercial.
2. Bartolini has Seneca V 220T as well. So, there is a choice on which airplane you want to fly. However, Tecnam is definitely cheaper than Seneca, no doubts.
3. Bartolini flies from a controlled airfield - Łódź. But, this is not very crowded, so there is no problem to practice holdings and approaches.
4. I never heard any one who complained at Bartolini both airplanes and instructors. And about the financial conditions. I met many people (more than 10) who were disapointed with Ventum Air, especially with the CEO.
5. Finally, if you read another thread about Ventum you will find a little bit more about this FTO. And this is not a kind of vendetta, like some one wrote, this is only "correction" of VA CEO lies.

Summarizing, I think that you will be very glad of IR/ME training in FTO Bartolini.
If you want more details, let me know

Regards

[FTO VENTUM AIR]

Good morning mr R-27

As i remember you were a author of all lies on another forum. And as i remember we alredy report your activity to Polish CAA and i hope i will see you soon mr anybody.
The people from Polish CAA are looking for you as well. We really wish to know who you are.
The time is tiking for you.

Just to let you know the open day for everyone who wish to see our TECNAM is on 31 of march.
And we have much more plane.
I will repate my invitation for you again. You are more than welcome to visit our school and see all our planes.


And on the and - Bartolini Air is really good school.

[FTO VENTUM AIR]

Dear felixflyer

As i assume you are from UK.
Best solution for you will be just jump in to the plane and visit polish schools. That will give you all answers.

Unfortunately, some people (R-27) on this forum for the purpose of his life took a generation of false opinions on Ventum AIr. These individuals remain anonymous, which makes them frivolous source of information. They are just cowards who are not able to provide and take responsibility for his words.
So to avoid bad decisions I propose that you just came to Poland for one day and on your own eyes convinced of the advantages or disadvantages of each school.

A few weeks ago Polish CAA has published a very restrictive rules for the pilot schools that can train the foreigners in English.
In a few days on our website should show what the new certificate to the relevant entry in this field.

And I hope this information will help you make decisions.

Training in Poland has many advantages. It is cheaper than in other EU countries, the level of education is very high, the price of accommodation is very low, cost of living is extremely low.

At the moment I may recommend two schools. Of course, Ventum Air and Bartolini Air. They are very long on the market, for 2 years we working together, and until such time as our certificate of practical (we need 1 more week), all of our students'practical training takes place in Bartolini Air.

From the first week of April only those two schools will have Tecnam Aircraft P2006T - which are very cheap in the training.

With little money, you may build your TT on ME plane.

Good luck in continuing your training

[R-27]

As someone form FTO Ventum Air wrote: A few weeks ago Polish CAA has published a very restrictive rules for the pilot schools that can train the foreigners in English - this is almost true :rolleyes:

In fact, Polish CAA just reminded old rules of training in Poland for foreigners. These rules were announced as a regulation of the Minister of Infrastructure dated 7th August 2003. There were two amendmends of this regulation: 2005 and 2007. Both related to people who were citizens of European Union countries - they do not need any aprovals to conduct pilot training - theoretical and practical. In this case only FTO is obliged to meet some requirements about teachers, materials and language of lectures.

So, for almost 8 years every FTO which wanted to train foreigners, knows these rules perfectly. I say again: nothing new, but still very interesting to know, that pilot training in Poland is available for people from whole world.

[FTO VENTUM AIR]

you're right but only almost ( as always ) but almost makes a big difference

The polish regulations say you mention a special entry in the certificate for compliance by FTO of training requirements in another language in which you conducted training (practical and theoretical)
Apparently not yet known whether the entry will appear in the certificate of FTO.
Read the rules carefully.

This entry will testify that the FTO has the materials and instructors to conduct the study in that language (those rules do not affect the citizens of the European Union).
This provision has existed for many years but has been neglected. He began to be required in a few weeks ago (published on the website of Polish CAA)

Again you are playing with words and with clear information about the Polish flying schools which are really good and youare trying to do a private war between you and ventumair remaining anonymous (coward trait) on international pilot forum

Follow so on and certainly we will have more students from abroad.
So your next stupid smile and acknowledge you only interested in undermining of our FTO.

The whole branch keeps track of your scribble and wonders what a moron you must be to behave like this.

On behalf of the FTO with whom I have contact and talk about the actions of R-27 i apologize the entire community served was unknown to anyone scribble R-27.

I think that students who choose to train in Poland are very happy and every month there are more and more of them.

[oparguten]

I just got my Multi Engine Rating (Mep-l) at Bartolini. I did it on the Tecnam.

My experience with the school is very good. I have received flight instruction in Norway, USA and now Poland, and Bartolini impressed me. English was good, they never promissed more than they could keep, and they where service minded.

I stayed at hotel in Lodz and paid ca 60 EURO a night, but there are lower priced alternatives. Taxi from centrum to the school was ca 8 EUROs.

[tecbar]

I have a pretty same experience than you. I have made my ME and IR/ME in Bartolini Air and it was a fantastic experience, not only thanks to the airplane (Tecnam). I was also impressed by the instructor professionalism. I may only recommend this school. I will start my CPL here next month. And it is worth to add, that I have alternatives in the city where I live, but I prefer to spend some money on hotels and fly with them. Hopefully I will meet you here :).

[Chuck-ski]

Just to let you people know, I am currently thinking about doing my modular ATPL (0-200h) at Bartolini next year. Early in the year I got a quote for approx 120,000 Zlotys for the "cheapest" option ie:lots of C-152 & sim time plus minimum Multiengine/complex type time. That about 27,000 pounds which seems pretty good - of course it will most likely go up by next year...:mad:

And yes - I am Polish too...

Chuck + ski, you know, HE! HE !.. heeee...:sad:

[Chuck-ski]

Oh, and as an added bonus - I wondered to their office last time I was in Poland and I have NEVER seen a flightschool with these kinds of premises !

Go to google maps & type in "bartolini air" - zoom in & switch to satellite images - Bartolinis hangar is at the bottom, by the Il-14, the offices at the top (blue roof) by the Tu-134.

[nightxpress]

I did my ME Rating at Bartolini Air Flight School. Great Team, very professional, high standards and a great Airport (EPLL). I recommend this school.

[matalice]

The school is very good,the instructors are great and experienced professional pilots and work comercial regurarly not just flight trainning so you get the real experienced people.
The owners/partners and staff are really cool people and always willing to help and find a solution for the best and cheapest possible trainning for you.

Planes are well maintained with on site engineer.
They have tecnam p2006t,cessna 172.150 and seneca V etc.

Lodz is a really good airport some comercial trafic like ryanair,wizz air etc but controlers are very nice to student pilots and look after you.

The town/country is really cheap example:
car rental daily: 15 euro
Hostel Molo: 15 euro
Ikea(3km away) 3 euro 3 course meal!
Beer in a bar: 1.30 euro
cheap cheap cheap!!!

[flymaroc]

Hi everyone, I hold a Belgium license PPL with night rating and have juste finished the ATPL exam I would like to do my IR/CPL MEP in Poland (Bartolini Air) can someone give me more information about the procedure to transfert my license to poland license.

Thanks

[portos8]

I just finished my JAA CPL and MEP(L) with Bartolini Air in Lodz, Poland.

The instruction was of the highest level and the team was very professional and great fun to work with.

They delivered on everything they promissed at every step in the process. I was aware from the start that the courses they offer in English are slightly more expensive (though not nearly 15%, more 5%) than courses for Polish students because it is exactly that, a course in English.

Tutorials and lecture materials in English are more expensive than Polish ones, and English speaking instructors are simply able to demand a higher hourly wage.

The level of instruction though was second to none, and I loved flying the Tecnam P2006T. It gave me such value for money, where I was able to fly a multi-engine aircraft for the same price as what I would pay for a C172 in my home country.

Lodz Lublinek is also a geat place to learn to fly. Fully controlled though the tower is not overworked all the time, as there is not a high traffic load ,so they treat the students nicely too.
Brand new runway with loads of space for forced landings, and an ILS with all the nav aids. I will definately do my ME/IR here too once I have managed to scrape the money together.

Another very positive thing in my opinion is that they charge blocktimes. I think it is flight time plus three minutes, so if you have to hold for taxi or take off when there is a big bird on finals, you do no pay anything extra which contributes in my view, especially in the initial parts of your training, to flight safety (no irritation that things take a bit longer so more eye for checks).

Than if you ad brand new facilities (that are next to the runway) and in-house mainenance it becomes , for the price they charge, a no-brainer.

All in all I am a very satisfied customer and I can fully recommend this school to anyone!

[Flying_Jipp]

Hi Dude;

Just wanted to know if you did your training with air bartolini? If yes; i will be more than happy if yhou can advised me about this school.

Thanks a lot and am looking forward to hearing from you
Best

[tecbar]

Hi, I did several of my training with Bartolini and there is no question that it's the best one in Poland and in my personal opinion one of the best in Europe, especially if you take into account the price/quality ratio. Modern fleet, very professional instructors, everybody is willing to help you in case of any problem. They never try to cheat, I mean that if you need some more flight time, you know that it is just because you really need it, not because they want you to spend more money as some other FTO is sometimes doing. I definitively recommend that FTO. Just read other threads and you will see that I am not the only one.

[TOLIP-LPTA]

I did part of my training at Bartolini in Lodz and part at Ventum in Warsaw. These are my observations:

- @ Bartolini instructors are experienced (most with thousands of flight hours) whereas @ Ventum there is quite a lot of young, many with restricted FI(A) license;
- @ Bartolini you get thorough help with theory problems you face whereas @Ventum your questions are either left with no answer or explained briefly; nevertheless, if you want to pass ATPL exams, you have to learn a lot on your own and (the best way) subscribe to one of the on-line CQs - I can recommend you bistol, e-atpl or aviationexam;
- when you book a flight @ Bartolini for a specific time, most of the time the plane is ready for you when that time comes, @ Ventum you rarely fly at the booked time;
- everybody @ Bartolini is ready to help you with any normal life problems you face when you live in a foreign country; I didn't have the same feeling @ Ventum;
- EPLL (where Bartolini flies) is a controlled airport with an ILS - you practice flying at a controlled airport from the first start; at Lodz Tower all controllers speak English very well; if you need to do your IR training you can practice twice as many approaches as you would do @ Ventum;
- EPBC (where Ventum is located) is not a controlled airport - at Babice Info most controllers speak English very poor... sometimes I wonder how do they pass those language tests?! you don't feel too comfortable when the controller on the other side makes you repeat few times before he understands what you say; what's more, for every IR training flight @ Ventum, you have to count over 30 minutes one way to get to the closest airport with ILS at which you can practice ILS approaches, that is EPLL; yes, EPWA is closer but they rarely allow student IR flights;
- Bartolini owns their Tecnam P2006T, Ventum only leases theirs;
- accommodation in Lodz is cheaper than in Warsaw;
- as "matalice" wrote - there is an IKEA quite close to the Bartolini FTO - a 3 meal tasty course will really cost you 3-4EUR;
- flight time - Ventum counts your SE flight time as 1.15x what moto-hour-meter shows; @ Bartolini it is what "portos8" wrote; also you have to take into account that Bartolini is right by the EPLL runway whereas @ EPBC it takes few minutes before you taxi to the runway; for any training that requires flying the airport circuits - at EPLL the traffic pattern takes around 6 minutes because you fly really close to the airport, at EPBC it takes about 10 minutes because the pattern is organized in a way to go around a housing district; overall, it extends your PPL(A) training by at least 3-5h;
- I found commuting to EPLL much easier than to EPBC; moreover, at EPBC when you get out of tram (the only one that gets you close to the airport gate) you have to walk around 10 minutes to get to the hangar where Ventum is located; you can also commute by bus, but then you have to walk about 1km to get to the airport gate and another 1km to get to the hangar;

Captain Mainwaring - yes, you are right that Bartolini charges international students more, but it is not 15%; f.i. C152 for Polish speaking students - 490PLN, for others - 123EUR which at the actual rate is 502PLN - only 2% more; Tecnam P2006T - 1150PLN/290EUR = 1183PLN = <3% more; the difference is based on the exchange rate of PLN/EUR - currently it is 4.08PLN/EUR; at the time you wrote your post - 20/02/12 it was 4.18PLN/EUR which means they did charge 5% more; I paid much more at Ventum - it ranged up to 50% more than Poles paid;

that's pretty much what I observed when I trained at both schools; I'll write an update if I can think of anything else;

TOPIL-LPTA

[TOLIP-LPTA]

I forgot to write that, if you are thinking of going to Ventum for a "0-ATPL" program - please be aware that (out of the students that came to Ventum for that program) NONE, I repeat - NONE, finished it; I was told that about 15 students started it since early 2011 and there wasn't even a single one that finished it. All of them (except few that just started) do not continue their training at Ventum anymore.

Moreover, Air Campus lost (one f the investors repossessed it) one of their simulators couple of months ago (A320) - vide Aéroports de Lyon vole au secours d (http://www.aerobuzz.fr/spip.php?article2988) and the CEO of Ventum Air still offers TR on that simulator...

that's all for now... stay tuned for more updates,
TOLIP-LPTA

[Metlik]

Hello gents!

Maybe somebody knows which airfields used during ME-IR and CPL training in Bartolini Air? EPLL of course, but maybe others also? EPWA for example?
I'll go there in the middle of January to get ME-IR/CPL training and if somebody could give me some info about mentioned trainings I'll be very happy (I mean what kind of instrument approaches are trained, which airfields, what kind of holdings, maybe some specific issues for Poland FIR, description and feedback about skill-test, etc.)

Thank you!
Happy New Year!

[TOLIP-LPTA]

RedBullGaveMeWings - It's curious that you try to question my credibility only on the basis of the amount of posts I have written. If you don't agree with me (or state that what I wrote is not true), please try to objectively undermine any of the facts I have included in my posts. I'll be glad to provide as much information as I can. I just want to be helpful to those who consider training in Poland.

I'm also sure that some of those that do have negative opinion about that FTO do not post their opinions here because they are threatened by the CEO of that company. Yes, if you visit and translate some of those web pages I list in my post, you will see what I mean. F.i. - a Norwegian guy who was promised by a Ventum Air CEO a refund for his plane tickets to come and visit FTO Ventum Air (and did not get the money for couple of weeks, despite few e-mail reminders) wrote his story at pprune and was threatened by the CEO to be sued for what he wrote. He finally got his money right after he wrote few posts at pprune. Visit Ventum Air : Trafikkflyger - Side 3 (http://www.pilotforum.no/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1044&sid=d5dd9fa72fbaa3ac9a5483255e7c2393&start=30) and find out for yourself.

Moreover, when Loff (from the thread above) was offered a training contract at Ventum Air, this FTO did not even have an FTO certificate of the polish CAA to provide any other than theory trainings. At that time they did not own a single plane.

Furthermore, there is an interesting thread about Ventum Air at pprune - http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/427928-ventum-air-merged-7.html

There is much more negative information about this school at polish web pages. If you can read Polish (or have somebody that can translate it for you) please visit the following few:

Szybowce.Com - Grupy dyskusyjne - Teoria do ATPL w Ventum Air - pro¶ba o opinie (http://www.szybowce.com/news/article.php?id=859&group=ava.szkolenie.do.ATPL)

Gdzie najlepszy distance learning?? (http://lotnictwo.net.pl/3-tematy_ogolne/48-licencje_i_szkolenia_lotnicze/196-ppl/46028-gdzie_najlepszy_distance_learning.html)

Szybowce.Com - Grupy dyskusyjne - Re: ATPL(A) teoria - gdzie ? (http://www.szybowce.com/news/article.php?id=17966&group=ava.samoloty)

[CPL(A)] Szkolenie CPL w Warszawie (http://lotnictwo.net.pl/3-tematy_ogolne/48-licencje_i_szkolenia_lotnicze/197-cpl/5908-szkolenie_cpl_w_warszawie.html)

As far as Metlik's question is concerned - they do fly at EPLL mostly. There is quite a few airports with ILS capabilities within 1h flight from EPLL (by P2006T): EPBY, EPPO, EPKT, EPWR, little further EPKK (1h15min), EPZG (30min from EPPO) and EPGD (1h from EPBY). EPWA - they don't like training flights at all. If you fly VMC (and file a flight plan), they will let you in without any problems. The only problem is that (sometimes) they make you wait 20minutes before you can perform a low-pass ar a full landing if you wish. With IMC flights you fly the same path as those big planes fly. With P2006T you can fly about 120-130knots which is pretty slow for an approaching A320 or B737. Therefore they don't like IMC training flights. At other polish airports which are not that busy, you can always find a time-frame when there is no arrivals/departures. Also, I noticed that at other airports controllers are more helpful.

[Metlik]

>>With P2006T you can fly about 120-130knots which is pretty slow for an >>approaching A320 or B737. Therefore they don't like IMC training flights.

The same situation in Riga (EVRA): you should book the time slot for the IFR training flight one day before and nobody promises you, that you will get a exact time you want.

In Poland ME-IR/CPL skill test usually is ~2h long, as I know. Seems that time will be enough to make a minimum program: 1xVOR approach and 2xILS at EPLL. Maybe SID, STAR, some holdings, steep turns etc. I'm right?

Thank you for information!

[TOLIP-LPTA]

Yes, 2h should be enough if your examiner lets you stay at EPLL. I heard that some of them like to take students for an exam approaches to an unknown airport (well.. at least not the one you performed most of your IR training approaches). Be prepared to fly to EPPO or EPBY. Moreover, I think that if you take both exams at the same time (CPL(A) and IR/ME), you will have to have a 30min break between both exams. CPL also has to be evaluated somehow - most likely, if you don't stay at EPLL, the flight to f.i. EPPO will be treated as the CPL exam. Best way is to ask your instructor at the beginning of your training - he will be able to provide you with the most up-to-date information.

[Metlik]

Seems, that even NDB approach has a possibility to happen. I never flown NDB approaches because in Latvia we doesn't have the NDB's. Will need to train it.

Thank you for information and Happy New Year!

[slawek_s]

Americans stopped using NDB approach plates in 2005 (AOPA Online: So long to 216 NDB approach procedures (http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2005/050707ndb.html)). As far as I know, GA still uses them but unofficially - although no valid approach plates exit, some of those NDBs are still up and running.

For exam, if your examiner decides to test you on that (although I doubt it) he will most like take you to EPBY - closest airport with valid NDB procedures.

Anyway, I've been told that (in Poland) all NDB procedures are going to be decommissioned sometime late 2013 or 2014.

[Whitti]

Thought I'd give my experience of Bartolini as a few people have sent me a PM asking about them.

I live in the UK and did my PPL and most of my hour building here. I came across Bartolini through a friend and was drawn to them by the low cost in comparison to UK schools.
After visiting them in January last year for a day, I immediately got a good impression of them and decided to do my ME/IR/CPL training here.
Turned out to be a great decision, I highly recommend Bartolini - instructors are very experienced and friendly guys, the training was well structured and although given support throughout, you are taught how to find things out for yourself rather than being spoon-fed the whole way....makes for a better pilot in my opinion.
I passed all skills tests first time, in minimum hours and although there were times where Bartolini could have gotten extra hours out of me, they did not. I spent exactly what I was quoted in the contract, no hidden charges.
Part of my training was flying to Latvia and back which is by far the best flying experience I have had to date.

Just to note, all my ratings & license have been added/issued by UK CAA.

The people at Bartolini cannot do enough for you, and they've have helped me out many times since with getting my license and ratings issued, including them making trips to Polish CAA in Warsaw on my behalf.
I made some good friends and am still in touch with the school. I hope to go back this summer for some flying trips.

If anyone is considering their training at Bartolini, I recommend a trip out there for a day or two, even do some hour building there and you'll see they are a great school. Ryanair & Wizz fly to Lodz from Stansted & Luton.
At the end of it all, I spent half the amount of money for my training at Bartolini as I would have in UK, even accounting for accomodation, flights etc.
Lodz is a great city and very cheap to live!

[Metlik]

So, I'm back home and I can share my experience with Bartolini Air (sorry for my not excellent English in front of all):

In simple words speaking - I'm more than satisfied with Bartolini Air!

I've got ME-IR training and CPL skill-test in Lodz and it taken from me just a 4 days! Can you imagine so short period of time for training during the winter time? Me not. But it was done and I would like to tell to Bartolini crew many thanks for that! There is a great, experienced, highly motivated and really friendly instructors. No any hidden fees - everything was as they promise before.

For newcomers I suggest to be prepared for training in advance (if you want to get just separated ME, ME-IR, CPL, etc. training instead of full course): before you come you can get all the documents you will need for training - checklists, SOP, documentation etc. If you plan to fly with P2006T be prepared for glass cockpit - it really good one! :) You can use the G1000 emulator for PC and become familiar with all the things you need. It will helps you during the training and saves your time and money for sure.

If you will go to Bartolini I suggest you to stay in Basniowa hotel - it is just 10 min walk to the airfield, there is a nice rooms and big dinning room with the fireplace (trust me, there is nothing better to sit close to it after several hours of flying in winter :) ). There is possible to meet other students and discuss all the things about aviation and womans. And BTW it's almost for free :)

Just PM me if you need additional info.
Cheers!

[Whitti]

Red bull, yes they do, from 10hrs and up. Get in touch with them and they'll help you out.

[captain.weird]

If I remember it right, they use books from Oxford..

[slawek_s]

About theory trainings - Polish CAO (called ULC) published recently interesting documents at their web page - Urz?d Lotnictwa Cywilnego - Statystyki Komisji Egzaminacyjnej (http://www.ulc.gov.pl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1886&Itemid=1) - you can check how students of all schools passed their exams (in 2012).

Just to sum up for those that don't have too much time - a comparison of Bartolini Air (the only other FTO in Poland that flies TECNAM P2006T) and Ventum Air based on the ATPL theory results:

Bartolini Air - ATPL average score: 85,29%, successful attempts 55/61 = 90,16% (meaning 9 out of 10 attempts are successful)
Ventum Air - ATPL average score: 81,81%, successful attempts 216/286 = 75,52% (meaning 7.5 out of 10 attempts are successful)

You can easily see who goes for quality and who goes for quantity.

[nurhakim]

so it bartolini air the kind of school that you 'pay as you go' or by installments?

im looking to do integrated ATPL that allows me to pay as i go.

looks like bartolini air is a great sch!

[portos8]

When I was there i only paid the module I took up front so "pay as you go" but check with them if it is still like that.

[Bearcat F8F]

Hi everyone,

Has anyone got any experience with Bartolini Air in Poland? It was suggested to me by someone but I would like to see if any others have experience with this school.

Also, has anyone done the ATPLs in Warsaw? Just wondering if the location/ lack of Polish created any excessive hassle?

[BufferB]

There are also some others threads about Bartolini. Maybe you can find some useful information there as well. I'm also thinking of going there, to get my ppl but first I have got to sort out some financial problems.

[custardpsc]

try a search. Plenty about bartolini, some of it recent, and some comments also about polish exam costs

[Metlik]

yes, there is a separated thread for Bartolini - no point to duplicate the answers.

[Bearcat F8F]

My apologies! trolling through older threads now... :ok:

[Bearcat F8F]

Hi guys,

I'd like to do the ATPLs with Bartolini. Has anyone done their ATPLs in Warsaw? Was it all straight forward or there was some additional hassle involved?

Many thanks

[federico100mt]

Hi,

Anyone here who had recent experiences with bartolini-air? Mostly for cpl, ir me, or even FI rating?

[swyssair]

I have the same interest as Federico.
Thinking of the FI(A) at Bartolini :rolleyes:(sorry Olive oil crosses my mind when I hear this name):ugh:
Have searched the forum but not found much evidence.
Anyone has done it, want to do it…

[slawek_s]

I've been there recently to finish my CPL(A) training (started at another Polish FTO, which turned out to be unreliable - vide http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/427928-ventum-air-merged-7.html#post7603942), refresh my IR (ME) training and take CPL/IR (ME) practical exams. It had a very nice time there and would recommend it to each and every prospective student. If you need more information (f.i. who did I train with, who was my examiner and what did he pay special attention to, etc.) please PM me - I'll try to answer to the best of my knowledge.

[mark_c]

Hi folks, does anyone have any recent experiences of this school? I'm interested to do the CPL/IR/MEP, but their price is quite a lot cheaper than most schools and while this is a good thing, it makes you wonder why? They also say the above courses take 2 months in total, which is very quick! Am I missing something here?

Would love to hear from any Irish or English students who went to them, was the level of English good enough to get a grasp of things?

[captain.weird]

A friend of mine dit his CPL/ME/IR in 4-5 weeks there at Bartolini. I've visited them in february and it is a qualitative and quantitative good school. The reason that it is so cheap is that the Polish government don't ask for VAT because it is a professional training.

Just visit them!

[rsbean]

Hi guys,

I hope someone can shed some light on this FTO.

I've been accepted into Pan Am's Pro Pilot programme, formerly ACA and prior to that Orlando Flight School (which judging by the posts on here regarding this FTO, people already have their views!). The reason I edged towards it was that ANA have just purchased Pan Am, so I didn't think that such a prestigious carrier would permit poor maintenance/bad reviews. I expected any past issues to have been amended.
I am due to start there in Feb but after reading these posts, reviews and info on the school (plus with my disgust of US politics) I'm very reluctant to go.

I am applying for CTC later this year as I got a good vibe with their open day, their success rates are positive and their employment statistics are promising.
If unsuccessful with the application I shall have to look elsewhere. One that has been brought into my attention today is Bartolini in Poland, being half Polish is also the reason why I looked further. Saw a post briefly mention this FTO when reading through the ACA posts and cannot find any thread regarding it.

They use Bristol ground school as the means to complete the ATPL theory, and the flying is completed in Cessna 150 and Tecnam P2006T with Garmin glass cockpits


However small and young the school is, it seems like a solid course for an affordable price. On their facebook page they have posts regarding recent graduate employment with easyJet and Wizzair, and offer 737 type ratings as well.

I know Polish people love and appreciate good flying, and through working with many Polish people I know they maintain a very high level of professionalism. So my thoughts are that this could be a successful alternate route to take?

I'm going to send them an email today, is there anything specific you advise enquiring about?


Any thought on this matter will be greatly appreciated, I'm looking to start my training as soon as I can!

[shawshank78]

This year I've completed ME CPL at Bartolini. Will be returning for the IR early next year.
Very good team of staff and instructors.
It's Florida prices in Europe and it's exactly what your quoted you will pay. No nasty surprises.
All I can suggest is to book a Rynair flight into Lodz for a couple days and go visit. Thats what I did and other students are more than happy for you to back seat and take it all in. Sit have a chat to people throughout the day and decide for yourself.
One thing that is great is how friendly everyone is there from all nationalities.

[Hagop]

I have just found out that there are 2 different websites for Bartolini Air, which are "http://bartolini-air.com/" and "http://www.flyinpoland.com/" having different contact details (different phone numbers, different Facebook pages and different email addresses). So I was wondering which one of them is the real Bartolini Air's website? Cheers!

[Metlik]

first one: Strona G?ówna | Bartolini Air - Wynajem Samolotów, Szkolenia Lotnicze, ?ód? . (http://www.bartolini-air.com)

[amarbond]

Hi guys!

Anyone starting ATPL or any other courses at Bartolini air school?

Did anyone finish the course recently?

[pplal]

After seeing your post I checked them out , reviews look good , fleet looks good and prices look great . I'll be considering them ,
Thanks

[Owu96]

Hi,
I'm considering applying to air bartolini in Poland, I was just wondering if anyone on here has been through their frozen ATPL course, I'm attracted to their price and their reviews seem good. And from their Facebook page they seem as though they have a relatively good employment rate with airlines such as easyjet wizzajr and Ryanair. I would just like overall information on the school and the application process

[TiltedTomato]

Hi Everybody,

Was wondering if anybody had chosen Air Bartolini's apartement on Jaracza 56 during their training?
How is it like?

[Bearcat F8F]

Hey guys,

I'm starting with Bartolini in the start of January. They suggested I take a room at al. Politechniki 3b which I believe is accommodation used by students from the local university.

Has anyone stayed there during their training? I can see its's dirt cheap but I am not sure I love the idea of being in a student accommodation.

If anyone has any other suggestions of where to stay that would be very much appreciated! Feel free to PM me. Thanks!

[claypon]

How did it go at Bartolini?

I'm looking at going there next year. Cheers.

[Brownblueguy]

Hey buddy
I'm thinking of going there soon too.
Maybe we'll be bunk mates :ok:

[jakub3695]

Has anyone been at Bartolini Air recently? I'm currently in the United States, also a citizen of Poland. I go to Poland every year for the summer so I'm familiar with the country. Although I was born here in the United States, I still see Poland as my home in some way haha. All my fam is there. I'm trying to take the 0-fATPL course.

I did one semester at the State Universtiy and because of a wait list, I didn't get to complete my first solo. I have about 24hrs on a Piper Warrior. The thing is, my mom kinda forced me to go to school here. I convinced her it isn't the way to go. If I stayed and graduated in college here with my fancy "Aeronautical Science: Professional Pilot" degree, I'll be spending about $120,000. Four years for the Bachlors Degree. Let's just say it's $30,000 a year. Okay.. So now I have my degree and CPL&FI license but no job. Forget about paying to transfer my FAA license to EASA. I need 1,500 hrs. I feel bad for my flight instructors. Some of them have about 3,000-5,000 hrs and still instruct with the hope of getting into a regional because of all the competition.

I'm trying to start as soon as possible. Like I said the 0-fATPL. Can I hear about you opinions on this school? How did you go about finding a place to stay? Is there anyone else in the same position as me? Is it really 45,000€? How are the instructors and how is life in the city?

[hazholmes]

I've read this thread but is there anybody with recent experience of Bartolini?

[this is my username]

I did a CPL/IR course with them earlier this year and was very happy with the experience.

[skyboy83]

Did you complete it in 8 weeks as they said?

[Whiskey Hotel]

anyone know if they teach NDB procedures and NDB holds at Bartolini as part of the MEIR?

[Live your dream]

EPLL doesn't have any NDB. I didn't practice any NDB approach in the real aircraft, just in the simulator.

[Whiskey Hotel]

Thanks for the replies. Does it make much of a difference if they don't teach the NDB stuff or is it a pitfall? Should I look at doing that section of the training at another school after I finish at bartolini?

[Michael S]

Bartolini doesn't usually practice NDB approaches as there is no NDB available in the vicinity but you can get it as much as you want in a sim. If you want that in real life they will take you to the airport with one but normally they try to keep your costs at minimum even if you're modular. That said they don't ask you to pay extra trip to practice something unnecessary. If you can fly the aircraft and you are able to make a good VOR approach then doing NDB in a sim is well enough.
They obviously have some downsides but who don't. Generally training standards are rather high which sometimes can make you frustrated as they demand a lot from you and you won't be clear for a flight if your knowledge is below their requirements. And yes, their hire ratio seems to be really good. I have finished modular with them and secured employment in less than 2 months after completing. Most of my mates I met there are now employed. For some it took little bit longer. For some it was straight away but most of us are doing what we wished for.
If you got any more questions don't hesitate and ask.

[N80Jamie]

When did you finish your training Michael S (if you dont mind me asking)? I have also been very attracted to Bartolini Air due to costs and the good reviews they are getting from their training. My only concern was how the airliners view Bartolini Air's training package and subsequently how many jobs are offered to people who have chosen this route. It's good to hear you secured work so soon and the majority of students have also been doing so!

I will have finished my PPL in a few weeks so would be looking to enroll on their 0-fATPL course, minus the PPL obviously.

[Hawker 800]

My nephew had an interview with a certain medium sized turboprop operator in the UK, several months after completing his ME/IR with said school. They were not impressed with his level of knowledge of the IFR system, so it would appear. Didn't even make the sim stage.

He had never completed an NDB hold, nor could he explain certain chart symbology. He has recently had remedial training at a UK school, even although his ME/IR is current.

[Prophead]

Anyone thinking of training with Bartolini in the future needs to speak with them first. From what I hear they are booked up way into next year.

[N80Jamie]

My nephew had an interview with a certain medium sized turboprop operator in the UK, several months after completing his ME/IR with said school. They were not impressed with his level of knowledge of the IFR system, so it would appear. Didn't even make the sim stage.

He had never completed an NDB hold, nor could he explain certain chart symbology. He has recently had remedial training at a UK school, even although his ME/IR is current.

Surely your nephew would have done research on what is expected from that particular companies interview? Should these things be included with the flight training provided by Bartolini Air?

[Transsonic2000]

Anyone thinking of training with Bartolini in the future needs to speak with them first. From what I hear they are booked up way into next year. Well, apparently business is going exceptionally well for Bartolini (thanks to the excellent promotion here on the forum), since they are turning down an increasing number of inquires. I intended to do the flying part of my conversion with them, at first they said yes, but then they changed their mind and told me that they aren't providing this kind of service any longer, because it's too little profit and too much paperwork for them :E

[Hawker 800]

N80 Jamie Hi.

He had fired off applications straight away after completing MEP/IR/MCC. A training environment should equip the candidate for success, and the withholding of NDB work will stump many pilots at the sim stage or indeed interview stage when the interviewing management pilots ask where your training was conducted. He had never even seen a DME arc.

Contrary to popular belief, many operators value and indeed still use NDB approaches, including holding. If applying for a UK position, one would be expected to demonstrate NDB work in a sim check.

And yes, NDB work should most certainly be part of an IR test in my opinion as a humble ex RAF QFI and Hawker series TRE.

[Live your dream]

I can say that Bartolini has a big problem with their sim instructor. I have never felt I was wasting my money in that way before. Briefings were quite superficial, from time to time some advice, no de briefings. In my humble opinion, students would be more ready if they had another instructor for that stage.

Regarding DME ARC, I cannot agree with you here Hawker, as you have to perform a dme arc during the VOR app rwy 07 and it is also practiced as part of the basic IR in the real aircraft.

As I said the NDB should be practiced and taught during the sim phase, but...

[jamesgrainge]

N80 Jamie Hi.

He had fired off applications straight away after completing MEP/IR/MCC. A training environment should equip the candidate for success, and the withholding of NDB work will stump many pilots at the sim stage or indeed interview stage when the interviewing management pilots ask where your training was conducted. He had never even seen a DME arc.

Contrary to popular belief, many operators value and indeed still use NDB approaches, including holding. If applying for a UK position, one would be expected to demonstrate NDB work in a sim check.

And yes, NDB work should most certainly be part of an IR test in my opinion as a humble ex RAF QFI and Hawker series TRE.

Just saying, NDB and DME work easily accessible on FSX at home, just the same as VOR work. I wouldn't put it down to a lack of training.....

[Hawker 800]

Just saying, NDB and DME work easily accessible on FSX at home, just the same as VOR work. I wouldn't put it down to a lack of training.....

James,

And what may I ask is your experience in flight instruction? Your statement is quite worrying. Don't you think that these things (core elements of IFR flight) should be taught AND examined on an IRT?

In your infinite wisdom what would you put it down to, as it would appear they do not teach NDB? That's setting yourself up for failure.

Just saying...

From another thread on this forum. Not my quote.

Final word from an old sod. It worries me when aspiring pilots seem most interested in following the path of least resistance. If aviation is your passion, why don't you want to learn all their is to know about it? Why are you spending all your time and energy in looking for short-cuts? Aviation training has no equivalent to the X-factor. Ultimately, those who have put the time, money and effort into their apprenticeship make the best (and safest) pilots.

It can be quick, good and inexpensive, but not all three at once.

[Michael S]

When did you finish your training Michael S (if you dont mind me asking)? I have also been very attracted to Bartolini Air due to costs and the good reviews they are getting from their training. My only concern was how the airliners view Bartolini Air's training package and subsequently how many jobs are offered to people who have chosen this route. It's good to hear you secured work so soon and the majority of students have also been doing so!

I will have finished my PPL in a few weeks so would be looking to enroll on their 0-fATPL course, minus the PPL obviously.
I finished my training mid 2015.

To all who claim they don't teach NDB. That's not true. They teach but in a sim. I was doing quite a lot of them. The only thing is they don't usually do it in the aircraft unless you specifically ask for that.
I must agree with the point that certain sim instructor should be retired.
The best instructors I ever had were guys on my MCC in Simtech (Dublin). With them it was a pleasure and I was looking forward for the next day of training and must admit I learned a lot from them.

[jamesgrainge]

James,

And what may I ask is your experience in flight instruction? Your statement is quite worrying. Don't you think that these things (core elements of IFR flight) should be taught AND examined on an IRT?

In your infinite wisdom what would you put it down to, as it would appear they do not teach NDB? That's setting yourself up for failure.

Just saying...

From another thread on this forum. Not my quote.

As many posters have said,Bartolini do seem yo teach this.
No experience in flight instruction whatsoever, but as your quote says, if you want to be employed, put the work in. People may laugh at using FSX as a training tool, but regardless of the physics aspects you can use it to practice procedures. If I can teach myself to follow VOR/NDB/DME/ILS using my PPL books, FSX and a little web research, surely someone who is actually studying their IR would be able to ask to be shown/discover for themselves? Wouldn't that make them a better pilot? As well as showing some initiative. Ignore me by all means but why do people feel the need to be spoon fed learning? That's more worrying that someone expects to be in charge of 200 peoples lives without the ability to think for themselves, just saying......

[Shutdownatpl]

I wanted to join them but they offered me place only november on seneca and in february next year year on tecnam, wont be waiting that long, even though most reviews a positive! Any one heard about diamond flying academy in sweden?

[Airforcejunior]

Hi guys,

I have been told that Bartolini do not offer the ME/IR Renewal, any past students that have actually done it? I find it quite strange that an FTO that offers the ME/IR course doesn't offer the renewal course?

Any feedback would be much appreciated.

[Airforcejunior]

I have been told by Bartolini that they do not provide IR renewal training for external students? Am I missing something here?

[gceyg]

Any more experiences of this school?

[B77F]

Hello everybody,

I'm looking forward their EASA 0- fATPL. Does anyone here doing the same? Do you suggest me to enrole in this course even if I don't have PPL? I have been told that most students have their PPL first before enroling into their courses.

[cloudbash]

I'm a ex-Bartolini student and overall I was happy with the School and what I got out of it. There are however a few issues. I'll give you all the pros and cons from my experience.......please though speak to lots of people and visit the School.

Pros

1. Cost - without a doubt great value training
2. P2002JF and P2006T are great modern aircraft
3. They have on-site engineers who sort any issues, checks etc quickly
4. Ground school is thorough and IR/airline focussed
5. Time span - I completed my training in 8 weeks
6. Most instructors were approachable and happy to help
7. Sim is new and identical to P2006T
8. The living costs are very cheap in Poland
9. Pay as you go. You have to pay in advance of each flight though.

Cons

1. The training was very slow at the beginning but when it did it get going it was crazily fast and placed undue pressure. I did my whole sim training in 7 days.
2. Okay....the sim instructor. Not sure if he's still there but I had a terrible experience with him and so did others. Very old school in his approach and gave very little instruction. If you struggle with something he just gets angry.
3. It can sometimes feel like you don't know what is going on and can seem very erratic. I think this is because the training program is very busy.

Would I got to Bartolini again? Without a doubt but mainly due to cost and time span. I enjoyed some aspects of my training but no all, which is a shame. Looking back I now have minimal debt and am in the same boat as most other fATPL holders. I agree with other comments its not the best place for hour building; you can do it but it will be a headache due to the flying program. Get everything sorted beforehand. It appeared much easier for students who were doing just the CPL/IR/ME.

Lots of people who went to Bartolini are getting jobs - many I was there with have jobs on TP, jets and as FIs. Many go to Ryanair but many also end up at regional and low cost UK airlines. This was mainly down to themselves though, making connection and putting themselves out there.

Hope this helps. If you have any further questions please feel free to message me.

[gceyg]

Wonderful response. Thank you so much.

[Cmd.Nuno]

I tried to do the FI (A) course there but unfortunately they are not offering the course anymore to external students.

[Perseas]

Anyone who's been in Bartolini could you tell me what's the approximate total accommodation cost (rent, bills, internet, food) in Lodz per month?

[Airforcejunior]

Is anyone currently training at Bartolini and staying at the Ibis? Will be arriving there to do the IR renewal next week. If anyone is around that area and fancies a beer (or should I say Piwo) then let me know. Might also be helpful to share taxis to the school.

Cheers.

[Perseas]

Thank you for your replies..

Has anyone done his whole training in Bartolini ? I'm interested in doing everything there.
I know they say that ppl and hour building could be a pain there but how much would it take? I contacted Bartolini, they said from zero to ATPL will be around 20 months total. Can it get even longer?

Also, until now Bartolini does not offer MCC. How did you all guys find a job? Did you do it on another sim?

[MrPilott]

Bartolini is getting worse day by day. I've been hearing bad comments about the school and I will change my decision. Most people from the school say that, they only care about taking your money. After you pay, they don't care about your process, what you do, what you need. So think twice before choosing this school.

[cloudbash]

All for feedback but.....how does your comment above help prospective students in anyway?

Could you give a bit of detail??

I went there. Training isnt perfect but I found it mostly good.

[MrPilott]

Maybe the school was better when you take your training, but I'm talking about now.
I got this comments from qualified smart guys and they say, the other students are not happy, too. It is not a rule that, every school stay at the same quality all the time. Time change, people change day by day.

[cloudbash]

You're still not actually saying what the negative aspects are.........:ugh:

[Live your dream]

As a former CPL/ME/IR student, I can say that Bartolini is a good choice if your budget is limited. You will get for an excellent price, a modern fleet, not the best ME, but good enough to learn. Of course not everything is excellent, their sim instructor is useless, an excellent person but a very bad instructor. Sometimes you need to push them to schedule you and the difference between isntructors is huge, with some you feel you are learning with some other you are just flying by yourself. I personally think that at the end of the course I was ready to pass the skill tests but not by an extra margin.

I think Bartolini has a good vision but it still needs to be improved to become an excellent flight school. Anyways as I said in the beginning if your budget is limited, Bartolini is a very good option, if your budget doesn't have limits and you want a better preparation, go somewhere else.

[rzvanpopescu]

Hello everyone,

Do you tried to contact Bartolini trough mail recently ? I've sent them an email at the last week beginning, and I haven't received a replay. Usually they it takes this long to respond ? Or do you have a actually working email address of them ?
Thanks

[AllonH]

Why should people not do their PPL at Bartolini? I am considering going here as this is one the best options in Europe, comparing price and value. Does someone think there is a better option for PPL in Europe?

[cloudbash]

I went to the school.

Can sum up my experience very quickly:

Price - cheap
Timeframe - quick
Flight instructors - great
Sim instructor - poor
Fleet - great
Ground school - thorough
Cost of living - cheap
Support - good
Communication - average

I think threads like these are helpful for prospective students but all this "my mate said" is unhelpful. Give some examples please or ask your friend to comment.

[Lokki]

Cloudbash, spot on with everything you just said.

[Jolax]

any feedback about the placement rate after completing the course with them?

[cloudbash]

Placement rate.......? Nil

How many modular schools have a placement rate???? Not many.

[Alex Whittingham]

Really? Wings Alliance just placed an ex-Bartolini student at Thomas Cook. To be fair Bartolini didn't do it, but that's not their game. They do CPL/IR training.

[OzWanderer]

Please could someone tell me how the ground school is structured with Bartolini? I know the (excellent) material is provided by Bristol GS.
Do you home study then travel to Poland and complete ground school and 14 exams in one trip, or break it into multiple visits? Seems the classroom part is delivered in one 10 day course?

[cloudbash]

Really? Wings Alliance just placed an ex-Bartolini student at Thomas Cook. To be fair Bartolini didn't do it, but that's not their game. They do CPL/IR training.

Yes really....they mostly don't place students. I think a couple were sent for interviews with Adria Airways but that's about it. They don't have and don't give any placement figures/ rates. The lad who went to TC was more to do with WA which is a completely different thing...

If the question was do Wings Alliance place students then my response would have been different....:rolleyes:

[Alex Whittingham]

Ah I see what you are saying. Why would Bartolini place students any more than a groundschool or PPL school would? As you say, they don't place students, primarily because when they finish at Bartolini they are not at the end of their training. A more informative question would be "How have *** ATO's students subsequently fared in the job market?".

[cloudbash]

And if that was the question I'd say very well. Most of my course mates have jobs.

Jolax- check out the flyinpoland Facebook page details where people are getting jobs.

[OzWanderer]

Thanks Redbull - very informative mate, answered all my questions.

[rzvanpopescu]

Hello guys,
I have a few questions for who got through the 0-fATPL program at Bartolini.
-How long did it take to complete the first stage of the program, the PPL ?
-After the PPL, the next step is the ATPL Theory. I've read that the minimum allocated time is 5 months. It is manageable to work a full time job and study for the exams in the allocated 5 months ?

I'm in doubts if, for those first stages of training, I have to quit my job or I could manage to continue working.

Thanks

[n1sK]

Well addressing your questions, PPL training will take you 3/4 months. I took 4 months from start of theory to passing the final skill test (12 Aug to 12 Dec). And I started flying in September so the weather was getting increasingly worse over time. At some point I was grounded for two weeks waiting for the right wx for a long nav solo.
As for the ATPL, I'm currently going through the exams, it will depend a lot on the kind of person that you are and how good you are are retaining facts, also at how much of that thing called "sleep" do you really need. I would say that passing the exams and working at the same time is perfectly possible but I would not bet on the 5 month mark. Allow some more time so you can properly prepare, unfortunately the way the ATPL examinations are structured end up being more like a memory contest, and that requires a lot of hours put into it as simply understanding the concepts and them being able to apply them over a wide range of questions only works for some of the subjects.

As for the points raised by Amarui, I'm pretty sure I know who he is and I'm familiar with what happened there. And he is right about some of the things he pointed out, however I must disagree with some others, the ATO quality has not suffered from the charter business he mentions, he did get unlucky that some of the senior instructors were away on citation flights at the time he wanted to complain, but that was over a small period of time.
Organization I must disagree too, things are well organized, you are however responsible for yourself. Any questions you have will, I'm sure, be diligently answered, but you have to direct them at the right people.
Think your instructor is not up to standard? Schedule a meeting with the head of training.
Need help finding a place to live in town? The girl at the reception will gladly help you (she is partial to Caramel Macchiattos, HEY, I didn't say it was going to be free!)
Got questions about your account with the school, direct them at the head accountant.
Basically, you wont be carried around, but so long as you can point out things and bother to read the student manual to know where to go and who to talk to I'm sure you will find any problems you may have do not get out of hand (This is not a stab at Amarui, his case was slightly different but if he did not want to go into detail I wont either). The instructor he mentions is no longer around however and I (and I'm sure Amarui will agree with me here) can assure you he is not a reflection of the other instructors.

[hegemon88]

There are new kids on the block in PL apparently - a new school still waiting for their ATO approval. It may be a good bet if you're at the PPL stage as they are planning to grow with the first intake of students - i.e. offer CPL when their cadets have done the hour building, offer IR/ME when their cadets have done the ATPL writtens etc.


They will operate out of EPZG which like EPLL is a controlled field, but with much much less commercial traffic, which some may see as drawback (no real "big airport" feel).


I reckon they're flexible on theory - can do it with them or study independently if you want.

[Jolax]

which school is?

[hegemon88]

The name's Westwings Flight School.

[hegemon88]

Oh, I used that word figuratively.

Isn't the ATPL training one massive bet nowadays?

[n1sK]

Very good, lets not forget your debts :P

/Back on topic, No the ATPL is not one massive bet. The way EASA made the testing system is one big joke but some schools will help you more and some others less.
Some will allow you to sit the brush up course again on those tricky subjects some others will just ask for more money... Some instructors will gladly spend a few minutes with you if you come up to them with a question some others will simply move on. These things matter in the end.
I can't speak for other schools but in Bartolini I have that, I was struggling with part of Gnav for the ATPL and all I had to do was ask and I got a quick lesson on the parts I needed. Going great now.

[LaGuardia]

Hello
So finally Air Bartolini have partnership with airlines?

[flapsupboy]

I've emailed to Bartolini about their 0-fATPL course.They said that they will be starting MCC soon.

[the_gimper]

Is bartolini still around? Their domain registration bartolini-air.com has lapsed, which is also their contact email.

Also anyone know where one might check an FTOs credentials on the Polish CAA website?

[flapsupboy]

Try flyinpoland.com.It works

[Apitu]

Bartolini Air EASA Flight Training Organisation - Fly in Poland (http://www.flyinpoland.com) Is the website from their Facebook page. Maybe bartolini-air.com is one older site that they don't use anymore.

[the_gimper]

Yeah I saw that that is their new website, but the contact email on that website is @bartolini-air.com, sent them an email a few days ago with no reply, so was worried they weren't receiving emails. Tried messaging them on Facebook, hope they'll reply there. :)

Maybe they'll give me a discount if I make them a proper website :))

[LaGuardia]

Yes I asked them and they said that he will take 3-4 days to reply

[Jolax]

Do you have any info about the MCC that they are going to provide?
I'd like also to know if they do the UPRT course.

[Kevin31]

Hi

anyone here who has been on their CPL/MEIR course no how the paying for it works please?

I am a long way from doing this but just curious. As you should pay up front do you pay a deposit and then installments or is it some other way?

Thanks

[shamrock88]

Deposit up front then you will be given a payment plan for each of the modules.

If you have money left on your account it will be transferred back to you.

I never had any problems when it came to money. I paid exactly what I had signed up for and actually had money left over which was refunded after I finished.

[LaGuardia]

Anyone can say if it's better to do exam under CAA Polish or other countries?

[LaGuardia]

Sounds good thank you

[Kevin31]

Thank you for confirming how the payment works.

Anyone no how different the p2002's are to fly compared to a pa28? Is there much Difference training?

[MrPilott]

2 of my friends and me recently had problems with Bartolini. They are not honest and only concentrated on taking your money. Whenever you have problem, they don't care if they have already taken your money. Also, they give wrong information and it costs you much more money. Be careful and stay away from this school.

[Alex Whittingham]

MrPilott, you have five posts, four are against Bartolini and one against Goldwings, another ATO in Poland. All talk about the negative experiences that 'friends' have had except this one which says that you, too, have had problems. Could you expand, please, about your particular issue? The reason why I'm asking is that feedback about Bartolini from everyone else is positive.

[n1sK]

Its actually the second time MrPilott posts crap in this thread, neither a constructive post.
Or even with any actual information regarding what happened.
Taking into account all his posts are talking crap about this and another FTO I will just disregard him as a troll.
I don't know who you or your friends are, but the accusation of the School not being honest is just preposterous really. And I'm sure people around here would be glad to clarify what exactly are your complains, but first you need to complain about something specific...

[dera]

The fact that they "concentrate" on taking your money is a good thing. Nothing worse than a school going bankrupt mid-course because they weren't taking your money.

[AllonH]

Anyone else on here starting their PPL in the August class at Bartolini?

[horus23]

Hello guys,
I've been reading this forum for a while and following the reviews about this school specially, so thanks for all the relevant info so far.

I did my PPL/NVFR and would like to continue for CPL, ME, IR and the ATPL.
Right now I have bit more than 50hrs and need to do my hour building, but I haven't enrolled in the ATPL yet. Taking many suggestions of friends and information taken from the internet I decided to take Bristol ground school, but I'm not sure if I should do it directly with Bristol or with Bartolini (where I was planning to do the CPL, ME, IR and possibly the hour building).

I would like some opinions from people who did the course in both places.

The main difference for me will be in price. Doing it in Bristol will be almost double the price due to the fee for the exams, the price of the course itself, the shipping of the books and the 3 revision weeks (flight, accommodation and expenses). In other hand you will have the printed material forever, more revision weeks, one after each of 3 modules and 2 accelerator days per module. The training with them should then give you more background I guess.

In Bartolini the price would be the big plus but the information is not so clear about how things would go. I understood that you need 5 months before you can start the revision week (that is only 10 days once) but I'm not sure if you can do any subject at your discretion and if only with the web training given would be enough.


About the hour building:
I asked them if it was possible to book an airplane and have freedom to fly when and where you desire, but I was told that you need to book even the hours you will be flying beforehand. So I have no idea if it's going to work for me, as I'm not familiar with the place, weather and other issues that could arise. I would have a month to do at least 50 hours, is it reasonable over there?
Another option was to do the hour building in USA and then continue with them for the CPL and etc.
Is there someone who did hour building with them who could give me some opinion?

I would really appreciate hearing from students and former students of Bartolini.

[horus23]

Thanks for your answers Amauri and RedBullGaveMeWings!
It seems that I'm leaning to the Bartolini ATPL side even more now...

Do you guys have any recent experience with hour building over there?
My main concern is not to have aircraft available for maximum hours/day as possible due to flight schedule and no idea about how is the weather for a non IR rated pilot to try some valuable cross-country flights.

[n1sK]

Alright, the guys have already done most of the explanation about the ATPL and I agree with most of it. I'm currently almost done with the ATPL exams and honestly so long as you have a working brain and some understanding of math and physics you will do fine providing you put effort into it.

Regarding HB in VFR... I have done quite a fair bit of it and still have some hours to go. Weather will not be much of an issue from Spring onward, there will, of course, be some convective activity for you to deal with and if you fly XC near the Alps and Tatras, Fohen and Halny are something you will hear a lot, but all that can be planned around. You will find plenty of people to share their experiences and help you with that around school. Wx cancellations during VFR season are rare, and can usually be avoided with a simple change of plans or departure delay.

50hrs in a month might be a little of a push if you go for the P200JF, there are however some tricks you can use to maximize the time you have the plane available for, Specially if you have NFVR and want to fly XC!
You can simply request the plane one day from mid afternoon onward (planes are usually less busy at night time) and request it again the next day in the morning. Then you simply fly somewhere you wish to go to, sleep and refuel there, and then return the next morning. You will be back for lunch and the plane wont be gone for long, also you can get around 8 hours plus you get to challenge yourself with new airspace/airports and visit some new city!
I did this with Prague early in my HB and it was awesome. Also if you do this in summer you don't even need to worry planning with AD's that have lights available, SS is late and most AD's are open SS+30' in summer months.
This will require some coordination and slot approval but that should not be an issue.

Another method is to coordinate with someone else who is also doing HB and get adjacent slots, so you can fly somewhere far away with the other guy flying back. You don't get as many hours, but you still get the challenge and don't have to worry about most of the slot management.

And finally you can also just fly another plane, this option is not very popular as it is a bit more pricey than the P200JF but I can tell you from my experience that if taken full advantage of, it can be a great experience gathering tool.
Bartolini has two other planes you can use for hour building, a C172* with analog instruments and a handheld Garmin, and a P2010 with full glass cockpit (G1000 + SAM as backup).
Both are generally available and can be requested for longer periods of time than the P2002JF's since these planes are not as often used for PPL/CPl training. Also you can go far away and bring some friends along as these are 4 seat planes.

Let me know if you have any more questions regarding HB, Ill be glad to answer :)

* - For the sake of clarity the C172 is not actually available at the time I'm making this post. Should be in the next couple days however and as such deserves to be mentioned.

[MaverickPrime]

Anyone recently went through the CPL MEIR MEP course at bartolini and able to share their experiences?

Two complaints I heard a while ago were; the sim instructor isn't so personable and the IR course isn't as robust and comprehensive as it could be - is this still the case?

I've been talking to my flying club at home and they seem to have heard good things about bartolini, so would be interested to here more opinions???

[sapper99]

Hi
I'm new to the forum but the above thread is just what I needed to confirm that Bartolini is the ATO I am going to use for my CPL/ME IR. I am nearing the required hours for entry to the course and plan start the theory course in Sept providing I check all the boxes.. I am going to be working out there anyway so it's an ideal location for me. Anyway that leads on to my question: Does anyone know the best place in Poland I can get an initial class 1 medical done? I wont have time to get one here before I go in a few weeks and would rather not have to come back just for that! Of course, I will if I have to.

Thanks

[n1sK]

You can do it in Warsaw and later do the re-validations in Lodz where the ATO is.
It is much cheaper than in the UK too and as medicals go its pretty standard.
The guys in BA will point you towards the place where you can do the initial Class 1 in Warsaw.

[sapper99]

Thanks. That is really useful info. I'll get the contact details from Bartolini.

Can't wait to get started!

[PiwiOPL]

Hello!
Any pilots here in Lodz? I want to come and visit Bartolini this month.
A person to guide me? It will be my first time in Poland

[RomanK]

Hello PiwiOPL,

I don't see any problem just to contact Bartolini by mail and ask for a meeting.
I think every uber driver knows where it is located as many Bartolini's students use uber thanks to cheap price

[FougaMagister]

To reach Lodz from Paris, your options are to fly from CDG on AF or LOT (or possibly Lufthansa or KLM with a connection - sometimes the fares are better) or Wizzair from Beauvais to Warsaw-Chopin, then take a bus or taxi to Warsaw's central train station (Warszawa Centralna) and to buy a train ticket to Lodz (120 km or so - even express trains are cheap in Poland) then as mentioned above, another taxi/uber to Bartolini's Lodz-Lublinek base. Ryanair also flies from Beauvais to Warsaw-Modlin, 40 km North of Warsaw. Then you can get a shuttle bus to the city centre and get on the train to Lodz.

Cheers :cool:

[engineno9]

See also the 'Modlin Bus' service operated by OK Bus. Goes from Modlin, Central Warsaw and Okecie/Chopin to Lodz several times a day, not as quick as the train I suspect but very cheap.

[michel96]

Hello There! I was just wondering if anyone out there is starting their flight training at Bartolini. Cause I have enrolled in the course and will be there. It would be nice to meet some new friends.
If anyone out there is following the same path PM me! :)

[Arena_33]

Anyone have any experience of hour building at bartolini air?

i.e Would hour building here be beneficial if I was to complete the MEP + ME/IR + CPL at bartolini also?

[RomanK]

Afaik, in Poland, if you do MEP/IR/CPL + time building 'all-in-one-pack', you will be exempted from VAT event for time building price

[afrikano]

Do you guys know if Bartolini only offers their 0 to fATPL program?
I wanted to do my PPL there and later on decide whether stay there or not but they told me I have to do the whole program, which for me sounds weird isn't it?

[Nurse2Pilot]

Hello! Anyone here currently taking up any courses with Bartolini? I'd like to hear your thoughts either on this thread or feel free to PM me. Thanks!

[Pabluski]

Hello There! I was just wondering if anyone out there is starting their flight training at Bartolini. Cause I have enrolled in the course and will be there. It would be nice to meet some new friends.
If anyone out there is following the same path PM me! :)

Hi Michel,

I just read your post that you had enrolled at Bartolini. I'm planning to enroll (from 0 to fATPL) but they say the next available slot is in July/August 2018. Is it the same for you or are you starting inmediately?

Btw it is not a problem that I start in that dates in 2018 because I'm still finishing university but maybe I would like to do the PPL before that, maybe March/April.

Greetings :ok:

[Nurse2Pilot]

Do you guys know if Bartolini only offers their 0 to fATPL program?
I wanted to do my PPL there and later on decide whether stay there or not but they told me I have to do the whole program, which for me sounds weird isn't it?
What? That does sound weird! From what I understood, the whole programme is modular and not integrated. How exactly did they "say" this?

You could go there and do your PPL, then you go home for the ATPL study, but as they say you can take your CAA exams in any country, what's stopping you from never showing up to Bartolini again and doing your CPL/ME/IR someplace else?

[flapsupboy]

Agreed.They are fully booked.

[I-FLA]

I just asked for cpl mep ir and they told me the first slot available is in October 18. But my question is: how is the weather in Poland from October? Has anyone done the training in that period?

[Jolax]

If you go somewhere else, maybe you will even be able to find a job before Oct 2018 :}

[I-FLA]

Agree but I have to finish my atpl theory exams first! So October will be suitable for me

[Jolax]

If it's so, I hope you have already reserved your slot at Bartolini or you are going to do it soon.

[I-FLA]

Yes of course! Thanks

[RomanK]

I did my IR training in Poland mid-october. The weather was always VFR for 5 days except once in Lublin. Then it was different next 5 days: fog could be there all the day and fortunately there was one 'window' with visibility of 8km with clouds at 1500-2000 feet (the day of exam)
One thing is sure that it was warm enough for no-icing conditions

[florin200]

hey guys
just wondering if anyone has any info regarding Bartolini cooperation with RYR for APC programme, or Adria airlines. most probably I`ll start next year.

[ComeFlyWithB]

If all goes to plan timescale wise I'm looking at going to Bartolini in Jan 2020 roughly, for the CPL/MEP/IR so I'd be interested to know anyones experiences / placement/s timelines and so on.

[Pabluski]

Hi :) I'm starting PPL at Bartolini on June 18 and all the rest of the ATPL after that. Is anyone starting on that dates or will be there?

[AllonH]

Hi,

I am still at Bartolini in February, if you have any questions let me know. I started the PPL course in August, and except for maybe 1 guy, nobody from this class will finish before the christmas holidays and have to come back in February, making it hard for the new PPL class to fly. I think this is due to bad organisation of the school at this moment.
A lot of hour builders, other outsiders, a shortage of instructors, a shortage of daylight, aircraft maintenance and bad weather make it very difficult to reserve slots to fly right now. Within my class there are guys switching schools to finish their PPL asap.

[m_w]

Is there anyone who has recently signed up for combined ME/IR/CPL with bartolini? Last time I checked the price was MUCH lower (in the origin of £12000). At the moment their website says 17,500euro. If I take flights/accommodation/food into account it would be similar/same price to the UK!

[AA5 Flyer]

€17500 is around £15500. Most combined CPL/ME/IR I’ve seen in the UK are in the region of £22-25K. Still a fair bit to be saved even after flights and accommodation etc

[m_w]

Stapleford quotes £18,500 according to Wings Alliance website. So it just leaves £3,000 difference for accommodation, food, transport etc. So the decision to study with bartolini is not a straghtforward decision based on the price anymore. But I guess if you need more than the minimum hours then bartolini will work out much cheaper. I will need to seriously think it through.

[ilvaporista]

Having paid for the course in February '17 I can confirm that there has been no movement in course fees since last year, there are several other nice things that get thrown in to the pot as well when you are there. For all round value it was difficult to beat them. An all round positive experience.
The reason why you think that the course has got more expensive has nothing to do with Bartolini.
Weather was OK with very few days lost.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIf7uOfn0OY

[pilot freak]

I am looking to start CPL ME IR in late 2018 or beginning 2019. Anyone else booked in advance and would like to share any experience?

[Jolax]

And what about the placement rate?

[Jolax]

Yep. I'm following their fb page and I can see that a lot of people were hired by Ryan.
I was just curious to know the placement % because obviously they don't say how many of the graduates are still at at home waiting for a call.

[ilvaporista]

^+1
They are a very professional outfit and do exactly what they say they do. They offer training for the various ratings, they do not flatter your ego with promises.
Their reputation in the industry is pretty good but remember you are probably coming out with around the minimum hours so that is not an issue with the school. How you gain the first job is up to you. You are in competition with many other flight schools, some with prices for the same course of whole number multiples of the Bartolini cost.
Perfect: No. Value for Money: Very Good.

[pzygadlo93]

Hello everyone! I visited Bartolini Air flight school last week and all I can say is I’m impressed. I will be signing up for their 0-fATPL course, but I’ll have to wait until February of 2019 to start training as all available slot for 2018 are sold. During my short visit, I spoke to a representative from the school named Michał. Michał was very helpful and informative. He showed me around their facilities as well as showing the schools planes and telling me of the new planes the school had purchased and will receive at some point this year. If I learn any useful information about the school I’ll make sure to share!

[thisishomebrand]

I recently spoke to them too and they have said there are only two spots left in Feb 2019, with the next intake in April 2019 after that

[Jaair]

I was told something similar for the CPL/IR/ME, next available spot is after March 2019.

[Jaair]

Just curious - if you reserve a spot and paid the deposit, are you able to delay your training (to the next available date) without losing the deposit?

[pilot freak]

Jaair

I booked a slot in FEB 2019 and yes this is possible without losing your deposit.

[Condor84]

Hi guys ,
I have a start date for CPL ME IR training for April 2018. I am looking for a later date maybe for May or June or even later. If there is any one who is due to start in May or June or any time this summer and would like to start earlier , I am happy to swap my slot.

[pzygadlo93]

Jaair

I booked a slot in FEB 2019 and yes this is possible without losing your deposit.

Hey, Pilot Freak did you book a slot for their 0-fATPL training??

[pilot freak]

Hey, Pilot Freak did you book a slot for their 0-fATPL training??

No, I booked for the CPL/ME/IR training.

[horus23]

Jaair

I booked a slot in FEB 2019 and yes this is possible without losing your deposit.

If nothing changes, I will be there with you in Feb19 too ;)

[pilot freak]

If nothing changes, I will be there with you in Feb19 too ;)

Great! :ok:

[Gourls]

Is anyone starting the 0 to fATPL in August 2018? I just secured my place.
Has any previous students any information regarding the psychometric assessments? I haven’t done these type of tests before and am worried about not passing them.... Any info would be great!!!

[jackrabbitslim7]

Is anyone starting the 0 to fATPL in August 2018? I just secured my place.
Has any previous students any information regarding the psychometric assessments? I haven’t done these type of tests before and am worried about not passing them.... Any info would be great!!!

Hi I intend to secure a slot, they told me they had one in August 2018, can you secure a slot before filling all the requirements to stat training (I still need to pass my medical class 1, ICAO level 4 english, and psychometric tests) ?

[scompiani]

Is anyone starting the 0 to fATPL in August 2018? I just secured my place.
Has any previous students any information regarding the psychometric assessments? I haven’t done these type of tests before and am worried about not passing them.... Any info would be great!!!

Hi

If I can ask you, when did you secure your place for August intake? I thought that there was no place available until April 2019

Regards

[Pabluski]

Is anyone starting the 0 to fATPL in August 2018? I just secured my place.
Has any previous students any information regarding the psychometric assessments? I haven’t done these type of tests before and am worried about not passing them.... Any info would be great!!!

Hi, i just started this week my PPL at Bartolini. I applied on September 17 for June and later a slot came in for April (0-fATPL Program).

Regarding to your question, do you mean the psychometric assessments of the medical class 1? If so, then don't worry too much about them... you'll see it's not that difficult and you just need a little of coordination.

[Gourls]

Hi, i just started this week my PPL at Bartolini. I applied on September 17 for June and later a slot came in for April (0-fATPL Program).

Regarding to your question, do you mean the psychometric assessments of the medical class 1? If so, then don't worry too much about them... you'll see it's not that difficult and you just need a little of coordination.

I was told that before I can start my 0 to fATPL I have to do some psychometric assessments and a compass test. If I fail them I won't be accepted onto the course.
This will include, coordination, maths, verbal reasoning, a talk with the schools psychologist etc

[Gourls]

I paid my deposit for August 2018. I will be starting on the 13th. They told me that i need to go over beforehand to do the Psychometric exams before i can actually get into the 0-fATPL course. So i will be going over in June to do these tests.

[Gourls]

Hi

If I can ask you, when did you secure your place for August intake? I thought that there was no place available until April 2019

Regards

I was told there is 1 space in May and 1 in August, So i sent me deposit for August and was successful.

[Pabluski]

I was told that before I can start my 0 to fATPL I have to do some psychometric assessments and a compass test. If I fail them I won't be accepted onto the course.
This will include, coordination, maths, verbal reasoning, a talk with the schools psychologist etc

Mmh... nope :8 maybe that's for people who at the beginning of the theory course haven't got the medical 1... of course you need the medical when you want to start the practical part (3-4 weeks after starting PPL lectures) but don't worry, they don't do anything of what you described. As I said, maybe if you haven't got the medical at the arrival at the school.

It is possible that they do that before starting the practical part, but I haven't heard aything about it. To be safe, if you have a medical 1 (or 2 if you aim only for PPL) there's nothing to worry about.

I arrived in Poland 2 days before PPL lectures began. Did nothing before (only filled some form via email showing the medical etc).

First day there's a short introduction of the school, the e-learning system, etc and after that you start with a subject (generally Air Law)... then the 2 weeks of lectures begin.

[pilot freak]

To the guys who are currently studying there, how have you arranged your accommodation?

[Pabluski]

To the guys who are currently studying there, how have you arranged your accommodation?

Completely on your own. You can ask the school and they give you advices but you have to book yourself... I am staying in an Airbnb south of Bartolini until I finish my lectures. After that I'm moving to the city. There's plenty of things to rent and student depots etc so you don't have to worry about that.

[MaverickPrime]

Can any recent or current students give any feedback for the CPL MEIR courses?

A/c availability?
Wx situation?
Organisation of the course?
Communication with instructors?
CPL format?
IR format ?

Just overall general opinion and what to expect?

Pm me if you don't want to post here.

Thanks!

MP

[Gourls]

To the guys who are currently studying there, how have you arranged your accommodation?

I have booked accommodation with Student Depot Lodz. They are very close to Bartolini and very reasonably priced too!

[RomanK]

I was living in Salsa student depot 2 years ago and it was fine despite it is far from Bartolini. Indeed it was only for ATPL ground courses for 2 weeks only

[PelicanSquawk]

Sorry to hijack this thread a bit...but does any one know the current waiting time for the CPL, MEIR, course? I should start studying for my ATPL exams shortly, and was wondering if I should book on for a year after I start these?

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks

PS

[Jaair]

Sorry to hijack this thread a bit...but does any one know the current waiting time for the CPL, MEIR, course? I should start studying for my ATPL exams shortly, and was wondering if I should book on for a year after I start these?

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks

PS

Just over a year waiting time.

[PelicanSquawk]

Thanks guys.

[PelicanSquawk]

Sorry to bring this thread up again... I was just wondering if any one who went with Bartolini air visited before committing, I assume most people do! Do they have open days? Or is it just a case of calling them up and asking to be shown round? I have emailed them, but they appear two have to websites "flyinpoland.com" and another, and I'm not sure which is their main site...maybe its better to just call them I guess?

[PelicanSquawk]

www.flyinpoland.com is the right one. Best to call them before a visit, most students visit them before committing.


Thank you.

[blueladybird]

Hi, I am still quite new to this forum and to aviation in general so sorry in case my question has been asked before.

I am about to sign up with Bartolini for their 0-fATPL programme and the papers to sign mention something about being aware about the risks and the possibility of taking extra personal insurance. I was wondering if, as current or former students, you would recommend to get extra insurance? If so, which would you recommend? Did you go with an insurance company in Poland or in your home country? Thank you so much!

[merlin86]

Hi there,

I am signed up to start ATPL course Feb 2019, really excited, huge commitment as me, my wife and my kids will move to Lodz from UK. For those that have completed or currently doing their course, how did you find the first few days/weeks in terms of guidance from the school? Also, what did you do before your first day with Bartolini? So far, i am half-way through reading the FAA pilot handbook and that's it...

[Nurse2Pilot]

I'm curious as to why you felt the need to move the entire family to Lodz? Wouldn't it be cheaper if you just had to pay for one person (yourself)? Congrats on taking the first step!

[ilvaporista]

Generally most young people in Lodz under 30 speak a few words of English (in may cases more than a few words) and the traders that do business are generally accommodating to the many different languages. Don't expect anyone over 40-50 to be either enthusiastic about your presence or to speak anything other than Polish, again there are exceptions. The school is there to help you get your licence and they do everything to support you with your professional aims. If they had to concentrate on all other aspects concerning your life outside the school then it would dilute their available support. You need to show initiative and organisational skills, after all you want to become a professional pilot operating worldwide, a role that requires a high degree of autonomy.

Edit: Before you go a nice touch might be to do a few online Polish lessons, just making the effort to speak the language goes down very well with the locals.

[Nurse2Pilot]

I'm a bit confused with the employees at Bartolini. I've been trying to get some info from them since last week and sometimes a day or two will pass without response, then I'll get a short message/question that I'll reply to then another day or two without response.... then just now I get an email that gets to my inbox at 2100hrs UTC and Poland is +2 so does that mean this lovely lady is at work at 11pm? Boy, they must be really busy! Finally got the info I needed though and cannot fault the help that they give and the attention they have to detailed responses to my queries.

[miguel22]

Anyone knows what is the frequency that they do the brush-up sessions for the ATPL Theory? Do they have waiting list to start it the ATPL theory?

Thanks

[edhelms]

Anyone knows what is the frequency that they do the brush-up sessions for the ATPL Theory? Do they have waiting list to start it the ATPL theory?

Thanks

You have to attend 2 weeks in Lodz. This is it. There are no brush up like in Bristol. These 2 weeks are planned every two months. You can start with ATPL theory when you want but you have to wait 5 months before to start the exams. In this 5 months you should complete the CBT, attended the 2 weeks of classroom and passed the final test. Then you will receive the certificate of course completion which allow you to book the exams at the CAA.

[A320ECAM]

What does the COMPASS test entail?
Is it exactly the same as the content on Latest Pilot Jobs?

Or is the assessment test just a personality test and a quick chat with a psychologist?

[Banana Joe]

Questions:

-Are chances of getting hired by the bigger airlines (Vueling/Ryanair/KLM/etc/) bigger by completing schooling via a school like CAE (would be worth the bigger investment to me)?
-How much of the schooling with Bartolini is done on location in Poland (how often + how long per time?) - I would be able to combine it with my part-time job possibly
-I have asked this all to the school via mail but no answer for two weeks - school closed atm?
-Considering quality/possibilities with airlines/price, do you have some good recommendations of other school I could look into? (anything West, South, East Europe please)

Thanks in advance for checking out :)

-Plenty of guys and girls in Ryanair and other airlines and GA/bizjets operators. Some made it in their national flag carrier. Some schools do have a preference for integrated graduates. I am the only modular guy recruited by my current employer, all the others are from CAE and other integrated academies from the area.
-All of the training is done in Poland. You can study the theory at home.
-Can't answer on this one.
-Diamond Aviation Academy in Sweden and Aerodynamics in Malaga.

[Jolax]

Contact them after the 1st Jan.

[RedDragonFlyer]

Contact them and they will send estimated timelines for how long each part of the training will take. If they don't answer emails, try Facebook messaging them or phoning them. All training is done in Lodz, apart from the ATPL distance course which can be studied at home.

You can see where their pilots get hired on their Facebook page. I count fifty pilots hired this year, which isn't bad for a small school.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/Fly-in-Poland-174314219379888/photos/?ref=page_internal

[coboltblue]

Hey Red Dragon

Did they give you an idea of the length of time to complete the PPL stage. When I contacted them they felt that 2.5 months was not enough time, im not sure if that weather related or more how busy the school is currently.

Thanks

[QUOTE=RedDragonFlyer;10347415]Contact them and they will send estimated timelines for how long each part of the training will take. If they don't answer emails, try Facebook messaging them or phoning them. All training is done in Lodz, apart from the ATPL distance course which can be studied at home.

[Banana Joe]

@coboltblue, two years ago I did my PPL in two months. Weather was good and I had two instructors that were pushing me to fly as progress was good and steady. So yes, it can be done. It really depends on the student's commitment and dedication, as well as weather of course.

[coboltblue]

They did mention starting the course and just seeing how far I get before my time runs out. Would breaking the training be really detrimental if the worst came to the worst. I'd likely have another 11 days the next month that I could use as well.




@coboltblue, two years ago I did my PPL in two months. Weather was good and I had two instructors that were pushing me to fly as progress was good and steady. So yes, it can be done. It really depends on the student's commitment and dedication, as well as weather of course.

[miguel22]

Hello,

Anyone enrolling on early 2020 CPL+MEP course?

Thanks.

[Banana Joe]

They did mention starting the course and just seeing how far I get before my time runs out. Would breaking the training be really detrimental if the worst came to the worst. I'd likely have another 11 days the next month that I could use as well.
Several unpredictable variables such as weather, maintenance and instructors availability come also into play. The school has always been rather busy but it seems they have recently started giving more conservative time frames. However, for me everything went fine and finished all of the steps in the time frames indicated by them.
I don't think breaking your PPL in more than one stint would be detrimental, but you have to account for extra training.

[coboltblue]

I contacted one school in Portugal thinking they would surely complete PPL's in a couple of months given the weather. Their estimate was 6 months?!?

I guess America could be an option, get an FAA licence, do the EASA ATPL exams, hour build in America then CPL ME/IR in Europe.


QUOTE=Banana Joe;10362233]Several unpredictable variables such as weather, maintenance and instructors availability come also into play. The school has always been rather busy but it seems they have recently started giving more conservative time frames. However, for me everything went fine and finished all of the steps in the time frames indicated by them.
I don't think breaking your PPL in more than one stint would be detrimental, but you have to account for extra training.[/QUOTE]

[Banana Joe]

You would not be the first one to obtain a double FAA and EASA PPL license then do the rest of the training in Europe. One of my course mates did exactly this and worked out very well for him, he obtained his PPL in Florida. However, be aware that you need to reserve your spot for the CPL-ME-IR, the waiting list for it is quite long and you have to give a realistic date to allow yourself time to pass ATPL exams. Postponing and finding a more suitable date at a second moment is not a given. The school is very busy and they try to keep the intake to a maximum of 9 persons per class per month with the aim to assure a steady pace of training with no interruptions. If you finish with ATPL exams earlier there might always be the odd cancellation and you can get in a course earlier, but that does not always happen.

[miguel22]

You would not be the first one to obtain a double FAA and EASA PPL license then do the rest of the training in Europe. One of my course mates did exactly this and worked out very well for him, he obtained his PPL in Florida. However, be aware that you need to reserve your spot for the CPL-ME-IR, the waiting list for it is quite long and you have to give a realistic date to allow yourself time to pass ATPL exams. Postponing and finding a more suitable date at a second moment is not a given. The school is very busy and they try to keep the intake to a maximum of 9 persons per class per month with the aim to assure a steady pace of training with no interruptions. If you finish with ATPL exams earlier there might always be the odd cancellation and you can get in a course earlier, but that does not always happen.

Currently waiting period is almost 1year and 4 months!! :eek:

You also did your training with them?

[Banana Joe]

Currently waiting period is almost 1year and 4 months!! :eek:

You also did your training with them?
Yes. Waiting time for CPL at the time was 8 months.

[coboltblue]

I take it if you do the 0 - ATPL with them you don't have the same waiting period.

[Banana Joe]

I take it if you do the 0 - ATPL with them you don't have the same waiting period.
Negative, same waiting period. Simply the school was not as busy as it is now.

EDIT
The school has actually always been busy, they have become increasingly popular and this led to their waiting period to increase.

[Dukaster]

At least they don't run after money like BAA does...

[Banana Joe]

In terms of honesty and transparency, Bartolini Air are in a different league of their own. About 2 weeks after I was done doing training with them I received an email where they asked me to get back to them with my IBAN as my account, unbeknownst to me, had a surplus of around 600 euro and they would return me the said amount.
I was not aware of that and I think most outfits would have kept it for themselves.

[MaverickPrime]

Can any recent graduates share their experiences of the school, particularly the CPL MEP IR course?

Also, were do people recommend staying whilst training there?

[RomanK]

Also, were do people recommend staying whilst training there?
Salsa Student Depot was good for me (with a sport room) but it is in the city center so you will need to take tramway (or Uber, that is cheap there)
​​​​​​

[blueladybird]

Hey Red Dragon

Did they give you an idea of the length of time to complete the PPL stage. When I contacted them they felt that 2.5 months was not enough time, im not sure if that weather related or more how busy the school is currently.


They are pretty busy like most other (popular) schools. 2.5 months would most probably not be enough. Personally I haven't seen anyone get their PPL in this timeframe, 3-6 months or even more being more common. And this pretty much regardless of how available and committed you are. If for whatever reason your time for completing the PPL is limited or sitting around in Lodz for 6 months is not an option for you, you may want to consider another place imho (of course always being careful with promises).

[jaydotbe]

FYI. Just emailed asking CPLMEIR availability. Earliest st\art date Oct 2020.Sheesh.

[miguel22]

FYI. Just emailed asking CPLMEIR availability. Earliest st\art date Oct 2020.Sheesh.

Are you sure about that? I just got my place confirmed for April 2020. Are you having EU passport? I head that there is different rules applying for non-EU people...

[flapsupboy]

Are you sure about that? I just got my place confirmed for April 2020. Are you having EU passport? I head that there is different rules applying for non-EU people...

Yeah.You have to apply for a training permission and they do have a different waiting list for NON-EU applicants.And there are only a limited space for NON-EU applicants.Even for ATPLs you have to wait in a waiting list.That was how I was told by them.

[MaverickPrime]

Salsa Student Depot was good for me (with a sport room) but it is in the city center so you will need to take tramway (or Uber, that is cheap there)
​​​​​​

How long is it from there to the airport? I’ve had a look at salsa depot website, but they dont seem to have a lot of availability.

[Banana Joe]

30-40 minutes with tram and bus (you have to take both). Uber or Green Cab Taxi is 15 minutes on average.

[miguel22]

30-40 minutes with tram and bus (you have to take both). Uber or Green Cab Taxi is 15 minutes on average.

Was it easy to get a room in the Salsa depot? Big waiting time?

Thanks

[MaverickPrime]

30-40 minutes with tram and bus (you have to take both). Uber or Green Cab Taxi is 15 minutes on average.

Great thanks

[Banana Joe]

Was it easy to get a room in the Salsa depot? Big waiting time?

Thanks
When I first went there I did not have any issues. I think they have slightly changed their policy recently. They are full of Erasmus students and prefer their guests to book a room at least for a semester or something like that. It worked fine for me as I was staying in Poland for a long time.
You should try to give them a call and tell the manager you're going to attend Bartolini Air. She is usually very accommodating and a stay of at least 3 months might work.

There are two other dorms:
-BaseCamp Lodz. It is further away but still in the center and if you like pizza then it's very close to the best and true Italian pizza in town. Personally for me that would have been a bonus!:}
-The dorm of Politechniki, a local polytechnic, but it seems they like to ask their guests to find another place to sleep for a few days when they host conventions,

And you can probably find some good AirBnB offers.

[jaydotbe]

Are you sure about that? I just got my place confirmed for April 2020. Are you having EU passport? I head that there is different rules applying for non-EU people...

British. So... I guess, not EU by then? What a farce lol. But yes, that was the email I got. I asked for Summer 2020 and I got October as a reply.

[miguel22]

When I first went there I did not have any issues. I think they have slightly changed their policy recently. They are full of Erasmus students and prefer their guests to book a room at least for a semester or something like that. It worked fine for me as I was staying in Poland for a long time.
You should try to give them a call and tell the manager you're going to attend Bartolini Air. She is usually very accommodating and a stay of at least 3 months might work.

There are two other dorms:
-BaseCamp Lodz. It is further away but still in the center and if you like pizza then it's very close to the best and true Italian pizza in town. Personally for me that would have been a bonus!:}
-The dorm of Politechniki, a local polytechnic, but it seems they like to ask their guests to find another place to sleep for a few days when they host conventions,

And you can probably find some good AirBnB offers.

Thanks for the tips. I will maybe send an email to BaseCamo and Salsa depot to check. I will probably stay in Poland for 4 months so let's see if they are ok.

[RedDragonFlyer]

Hey Red Dragon

Did they give you an idea of the length of time to complete the PPL stage. When I contacted them they felt that 2.5 months was not enough time, im not sure if that weather related or more how busy the school is currently.

Thanks.

Sorry for the delay in replying.

They told me that it would be three months as a best case scenario, but I should plan/ expect it to take longer due to weather, availability etc.

[ComeFlyWithB]

Hi,

Can any current / past students let me know if theres any way to do additional ground school if required in addition to the compulsory two weeks ?

[anto125]

Hi,

Can any current / past students let me know if theres any way to do additional ground school if required in addition to the compulsory two weeks ?


Hi comeflywithb
No, everything is kept at minimum in order to keep the costs low (as most of these kind of schools), but with the bristol platform you get most of your job done on there. Still there are some airline pilots working there part-time who will be more than happy to answer your questions and give you suggestions, but no extra ground training provided for the atpl theory.
When I did my class at Bartolini last year, all instructors were pilots/maintenance engineers from majour airlines or anyway with a solid background.
Not like that anymore unfortunately, when I was there for my cpl-ir-mep the classes were kept by cpl instructors, who are really nice guys but with limited experience (basically ex bartolini students who did ther FI rating).

Good luck!

[flyhigh881]

Hi,

I have ME+CPL+IR slot in June intake.
I want to postpone my training for one or two months due to ATPL ........
Is there anybody who wants to start earlier and swap the slots?

[ComeFlyWithB]

Hi comeflywithb
No, everything is kept at minimum in order to keep the costs low (as most of these kind of schools), but with the bristol platform you get most of your job done on there. Still there are some airline pilots working there part-time who will be more than happy to answer your questions and give you suggestions, but no extra ground training provided for the atpl theory.
When I did my class at Bartolini last year, all instructors were pilots/maintenance engineers from majour airlines or anyway with a solid background.
Not like that anymore unfortunately, when I was there for my cpl-ir-mep the classes were kept by cpl instructors, who are really nice guys but with limited experience (basically ex bartolini students who did ther FI rating).

Good luck!


Hi, thanks for that!
Im just hoping they continue with the quality and don’t become another sausage factory!

[vatir]

Hi,

I have ME+CPL+IR slot in June intake.
I want to postpone my training for one or two months due to ATPL ........
Is there anybody who wants to start earlier and swap the slots?

Can you DM me please? For some reason I can’t DM you.

[ImFlyingHigh]

Hi all, today I booked my place for June 2020 for MEP (L) + ME/IR + CPL course, I would be interested in hearing any feedback from past Bartolini students.

[jaydotbe]

Hi.
Just out of interest, when did you enquire about this June 2020 position?? I asked about summer 2020 availability back in January and they said that there was no availability until October 2020. is it worth asking them again?

[ImFlyingHigh]

Hi Jay, I only enquired last week, paid today!! I also have a friend who managed to secure a place for June 2020, he booked 3 weeks ago. I'd imagine what's happening is some students don't hit their targets for the ATPL's and have to postpone their arrival. I know the space I took was the last one available, that's not to say another will not become available in the next few weeks or months. If I was you I would try to see if they are prepared to put you on a waiting list for June?

[jaydotbe]

Nice stuff! I asked them to be put on a waiting list 'if they did have one' back in Jan. To be honest, I am banging my head on the table a bit because i'm practically willing to pay serious money down so surely from their business end, they'd be interested in getting as many people onto waiting lists as possible, but what do I know eh? Same thing with DFA in Sweden. I sent a follow-up email to Piotr last night asking for a June/July 2020 slot, if yes, great, if not, I'll ask again to be put on a waiting list. Summer 2020 is far away, I'm hoping when I asked the first time they didn't accidentally think 2019...

[MaverickPrime]

Do they refund the deposit back if you find someone into your slot?

Pretty much, provided the person meets the requirements.

[hid3]

Wow, impressive. +1 to their Karma, that seems fair. Thanks for letting this know (although I really hope I won't need to use this option :))

[ImFlyingHigh]

To be honest I think I was very lucky with getting the date I wanted, I guess the right timing! If I were you, I would keep at them, also keep an eye on this forum as it seems like there are a good few people who have booked looking to change dates.

[Kaillou]

I m looking for a spot for september/october, in case someone's not going to make it in time...

[anto125]

Your overall thoughts about the school?
Fair, probably one of the best in Europe for the under 20k budget

A/c availability?
In my situation it could have been much better. they sold a twin during our training, another broke down, leaving 15 students (2 groups) with one twin that was flying continiously with, as consequence, short times between maintenance. We ended up not having a twin available during the few days od above minima weather, and delaying our training. appareantely for the income of students they have at the moment they need 4 twins more r less, at least to keep the 8 weeks goal realistic.
If you still have the old contract with the 2002 be prepare to struggle to fly the cpl module since a lot of hour builders use the 02. If you have the new contract with the 2008 you won't have problems.

Instructor availability?
Almost always available but you really have to run after them. If you don't ask you don't fly, somebody else will in your place. I didn't expect that, but once you know it you'll fly regularly.

Quality of communication between you and staff?
Ground staff is very helpful, some polish instructors have poor English, but overall I have to say good, even if we randomly discovered they sold one plane from one of the instructors...
Anyway if you have any problem, talk with Joanna.

WX situation?
You're in Poland, so make your conclusions. I was there probably in the worst period and it took 13 weeks to complete the cpl-ir-mep, and going to school every day, some of my colleagues took 16 weeks. Appareantly in summer it's good. From September to March expect one month delay on the 8 week goal.
Big issue for cpl is vfr conditions, and for the ir freezing level. Most of the time it lays on the ground in Autumn-winter, flying is up to the instructor because Tecnams don't have any anti/de-icing system. Flying in clouds is not ideal with -5 on the ground and overcast at 1000ft.

How was the CPL course?
Good, but do not expect incredible advices from the instructors. Plan as goog as you can, and also prepare some questions in prevision of the single flights and also the skill test.
The good thing is that VFR flying in Poland request some skills (unless you just go around looking at the garmin as a lot of people do......), so a good planning is very important.
Try to give your best, because it goes fast. The twin part of the CPL was my favourite, great fun.
If in winter get rid of the cpl module asap (vfr conditions are rare).
A lot of paperwork to print and some tricky airspaces but nothing undoable.

Do they prep the a/c for you before each flight or is that up to you?
Depends, usually you have to refuel, but also with preflight checks doesn't take more than 20 mins to strartup.

What about the IR, good SOPs, briefing, much time spent on autopilot, what sort of approaches do they teach?
How long did it take to do the course?
IR is good, they're one of the first schools in Europe to provide also pbn training and rating. Tho my instructor was not that helpful, if I didn't ask anything we would have flown without even talking. Prepare questions, learn as good as you can the sops, train on the sim they have at school and it will be helpful. Honestly flying rnav is doable even by a monkey, but making it useful for your future is up to you.
Sops are well made (especially for the twin), you will do: rnav - lnav- ils- ndb- vor approaches. EPLL is the perfect place where to do it, a few (still some) commercial traffics, professional controllers and no big delays or holdings. In two hours you could easily do more than 5 approaches.
For the sim do not argue with Bogdan. he's a good guy, if you fair, he fair, if you wanna argue, it's over. Nice that during sim training you do some demanding approaches (Klagenfurt, Wien, Geneva, ecc..).
Adam and Bartek are very good instructors but not so available because they fly on the company's Citation (as some other instructors..).
It took me 13 weeks to finish my cpl-ir-mep.

Anything else worth mentioning?
Again, be prepared to do most of the job alone, or with your course mates. Instructors want to fly as much as they can, but briefings are rare, and you're supposed to know sops and theory even if you never talked about it before with your instructor. For less than 20k I think you cannot ask for more honestly, but with the structure they have at the moment they cannot ask for much more. If they raise the price even more consider Diamond.
Another thing: I do not want to sound too negative in my feedback, but some things were not working really well. What I have to say in their defense is that they're transferring the school to the old airport terminal and also expanding the school. But when I was there it was sometimes not clear if they were a fying school, an executive airline or a tecnam dealer. If I could give them an advice is not to expand too fast, focus on what they think is the most important business for them (hopefully the school, even if it should not be just business..) and not to think they will always be able to manage borderline situations as they did sometimes, because sometimes studens do feel a bit alone, and they share their thoughts within each other, and this is no good for the school reputation. I hope it will get better in this year, because honestly, sometimes they were a bit messy.

Where did you stay and how did you travel to/from there school?
I was staying at an airbnb and there are plenty of them in lodz. Basecamp and salsa were full and honestly, a bit expensive as well.
Lodz is nice honestly, especially in summer-spring. If in winter you'll start to feel a bit depressed after 3 months, don't worry it's normal.

[RedDragonFlyer]

That sounds like a fair review.

It is, of course, a very difficult thing to review a flight school as very few people will try the same course at different places. I think for the price and the number of positive reviews, it's a good place to train.

I haven't heard of them moving the school to the old terminal. That should make commuting from the centre of Lodz much easier.

[Bluskyes]

Hello everyone!
I will shortly introduce myself here because I am new to this forum. My name is Francesco, I am 22 years old and I am from Italy.

I have recently passed the assesment test at Bartolini Air for the 0-atpl modular training. However, at the moment the waiting list is very long: the first available intake for ppl would be in April 2020.

Is there anyone reading this post who has booked a place for the ppl intake in June/August 2019 and is for any reason thinking about postponing or even cancelling his or her training? We could swap slots in the first case, or I could take your slot in the second one.

Thank you very much in advance.

[Condor84]

Sign up for your course with thrm and they will most probably contact you and ask you to start earlier. there is always people who delay their start day and you can take their spot

[Bluskyes]

I have already asked them to let me know if somebody decides to postpone/not to start their training. But thanks for your tip

[anto125]

Wait them to call you, even tho it's more probable to get anticipated in the cpl module rather than the ppl, but still good to let them know.
cross your fingers

[RedDragonFlyer]

I've just seen on Facebook that Bartolini and Ryanair have agreed a mentor programme.

It looks like a pretty interesting programme - though Ryanair have taken on a lot of former students over the last few years even without such a programme.

Does anyone have any more information on it (and will it lead to price increases)?

[MaverickPrime]

AFTA, VA and now Bartolini have official Ryanair programmes, yet Ryanair say they have a surplus of 300 pilots :confused:

[polskiland]

There is no job guarantee keep that in mind