Dubai - Holding Fuel Requirement

[sharpshooter41]

I understand that if told " No delay expected", the holding would not be more than 20 min.

If correct, can I ask as to where is it written.

Thanks in advance

[Shadowrun]

Maybe this one: http://www.gcaa.ae/en/ePublication/admin/Library%20Pdf/Aeronautical%20Information%20Services%20(AIS)/AeroInfoCirc/AIC%2004-06%20Aeroplanes%20Inbound.pdf (Point 3.1).

Search with "emirates" instead of "Dubai". ;)

[ZOOKER]

Similar in the UK, I believe.
It has always intrigued me this one.
Surely 'No Delay Expected' means just that, not 5 times round the holding pattern.
In the present climate of rising fuel costs, keeping delays down and 'CO2 Gurus' looking to eliminate holding completely, surely it's time it was looked at.
If the major UK ANSP is concerned at '25 seconds of delay', then 48 times this figure is rather significant.
Come on UAE, come on ICAO, come on NATS!

[twentypoint4]

From MATS Pt.1:

If an aircraft is likely to be delayed less than 20 minutes no expected approach time is to be passed. If the pilot requests the delay he shall be informed that the delay is expected to be less than 20 minutes.

So if the controller says nothing you may still be holding for 19 minutes! Realistically though I think 99% of controllers will inform on the likely length of delay, perhaps with a phrase like "expect less than 10 minutes" or "once around the hold".

[sharpshooter41]

Shadowrun and others; Thank you

So it means that one should carry extra 20 min fuel when ever flying into UAE esp. Dubai.

The letter quoted is dated 2006. I do hope GCAA has not issued something else since then.

[throw a dyce]

sharpshooter41.
The policy in the UK is valid everywhere,not just the London TMA.It used to catch pilots out when arriving at our busy airport in NE Scotland,when we issued delay less than 20 mins.We did have pilots arrive with less,and in one case no holding fuel and wanting priority.That one had to declare an emergency.
I think it's becoming a standard practice at a lot of busy TMAs and it reduces controller workload.It also improves safety as accidents like the Aeromexico DC8 shouldn't happen.:hmm:

[divingduck]

One of my favourite phrases to use in UAE airspace was "track direct DESDI and hold, expect no delay" :E

[10W]

accidents like the Aeromexico DC8

They lost 2. One was a training accident and the other was a landing on a dry lake with everyone surviving. What is the relevance of holding time to preventing these ?

[ZOOKER]

Ah, are you confusing this with Avianca 52, a B707 at KJFK?

[throw a dyce]

Zooker.
Yes.Sorry brain fade :ouch:.
Wasn't the policy introduced in the UK after a SE Asian airline (Who I won't risk naming) arrived at Heathrow on vapours.

[Dave Clarke Fife]

British Airways....who operated Concorde into LHR on fumes once....aren't from SE Asia I'm reliably informed :E

[westausatc]

Not that it's entirely relevant to this topic but this the most recent topic on Dubai so...

I would like to give a HUGE thanks to the guys and girls flying into Dubai through DESDI this morning who had to hold because of the runway change to R12. I had seven of you coming into DESDI at the one time, which made me curse Murphy with the impending work in trying to get the hold setup properly with levels. But you all did a great job with your descent rates, which helped it happen easily for me. :ok:

Especially big thanks to the crews of the first Emirates jet (788 I think) and the Arabian jet (618 rings a bell) through at that time - without the descent rates you guys gave me, life would have been infinitely more difficult. :D

Thanks guys! Left me leaving work in an exceptionally good mood - just sorry I could not do the same for you!

[BlueSkye]

Probably the only thing that went right during that f@#$% up of a night.

[westausatc]

BlueSkye,

I can only hope that last night was better for you guys - no extra paperwork would have been a good start! Was nice to finish the cycle on a good note like that.