Old and Bold ATCOs

[leopilot]

I started my ATC career on No.3 Cadet course back in 1963 and although I retired from full time ATC in March 2010, I still hold a current CofC at a busy LARS unit and work part time to cover leave, sickness and other requirements. At the ripe old age of 67 and after 48 years in the job (enjoyed every minute!) I would modestly lay claim to being the oldest validated radar controller in the UK - unless, of course, anyone knows better. I'd be interested to hear.

[samotnik]

Geez, do people live THAT long? :)

In Poland ATC license expires when you turn 60 and there's nothing you can do.

[Tarq57]

Ask me again in about 15 years. If I can retain a medical that long.

I figure I'll be able and willing to retire at around 75. Maybe.

[fso28]

58 and still going - though they do need me on the roster. It's the drive to work that will cause me to pull the pin

[veloo maniam]

Hello Leopilot...congratulations.
Nothing can beat experience especially in an emergency.
Being sharp and bold while being old is the name of the game
I am 36yrs into ATC and another 4 to go. I wont be able to beat you
but I certainly respect and will remember your record.
Hope your management took good care of you.:ok:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I too enjoyed every minute, but I retired at 58 to spend more time with my wife. DON'T work your life away; life is for fun, not work. You've no idea what might be chucked at you, as I have found out.

[Brian 48nav]

As usual, wise words from Heathrow Director.

Let me tell you a sad story. One of the Watch managers at LL moved into Ops when he was about 57. At 60 his job was advertised, but the 2 or 3 applicants seeking the promotion that would come with the post were not considered suitable. Derek agreed to stay on and boasted that he was the highest paid ATCO in the land, he had taken his pension at 60 and was still receiving ATCO1 salary. Because his father was still alive in his 90s, perhaps DH became complacent. He finally retired at 65 and died a year later. Some retirement!

Leo, I don't wish to be rude, but I think you need your brains tested; what are you trying to prove?

ATC is a young man's game ( and girl's); I always felt that operational controllers should be looking to give up in their early 50s. Management should have filled the supervisory and office posts with guys who had done their 30yrs at the coal face, not the young brown-nosers that seemed to want to pack up after less than 10 yrs on ops!

Retirement is great,time to do what you want,whenever you want! There's a host of interesting things to do after work.

The other aspect of working on past 60, is that of depriving youngsters a chance to get on the bottom rung of the ladder. In other words it's selfish to keep going.

So, come on Leo get a life!

[Fly Through]

Not everyone has the choice to retire early or move into non operational roles.

Leopilot - good on yer, I only hope I'm still capable when I reach your age.

[TCAS FAN]

Leo

Well done.

Remember 'HI 1970 Jersey Airlines Heralds, BEA and Cambrian Viscounts and the Morton Herons to Alderney? No SRATCOH in those days, my record 56 1/2 mile SRAs in a 14+ hour shift. Good old Uncle Nat', may he rest in peace, never found out if he found a way of taking his money with him!

I'm down to 8 days before the big "R", ATC is no longer the fun it used to be, off to spend the kids' inheritance, cheers!

[Minesthechevy]

Hmm, Brian, things to be said for both sides methinks.

I was lucky insofar as a realisation that I was the Official Old Guy on the Watch (both in age and I think timeserved at LL); a move to the new VCR; and my wife's job turning to a bunch of arse all conspired simultaneously to make us think seriously about our future. I have no doubt that I retired too early (53), because I did miss the job itself for a long time and still have good memories of the overwhelming majority of my workmates. Financially, fings could be better - but that's true of everyone. My belief that the world doesn't owe me a living has supported me, and I've found a new interest in teaching. So even being 58 isn't a barrier to working if you want to.

Different strokes for different folks I guess - but teh enjoyment of life is far more important than what you do during it.

That's the philosophy class over with - I'll get back to gazin' at me navel now; Tara.:O

[On the beach]

Hi Leopilot,

You have my admiration for reaching 67 and still being a radar controller. I certainly wouldn't, or more probably couldn't, control at 67. But you have a 5 year head start on me.

My ATC career began in Australia in 1971 and ended in Hong Kong in 2005, with many other locations around the world in between. Now, however, I wouldn't trade retirement for anything, even money.

Spending time with family and friends is far more important now, combined with a lot of travel, but not on too many planes now, had enough of ultra long hauls for several lifetimes, thank you.

But, Leo if you're happy doing part-time controlling then more power to your elbow and I for one won't challenge you for "oldest controller in town". I will admit to being "bold" in my time, but luckily got away with it!

On the beach (and staying here) :)

[TCAS FAN]

Leo

As for the oldest in the Uk, you are probably pipped at the post by the guys at ATC Lasham. I believe that at least one is into his seventies, still with a valid rating for a '424 - takes you back doesn't it?

[Mike_Retired_ATC]

Leo congratulations on your long career!

For those that think that us older controllers should retire and go away, yes we need to keep an influx of new blood coming into the system, but we need us older still working controllers to pass on our knowledge, skills, and insights so that you younger controllers become not mediocre controllers but good controllers.

Since I retired I've completed one ATC contract in Afghanistan and I'm about to leave for another contract at one of the NATO bases. Yes, I'd like to stay home and golf and fish and be with my family, but with the current economy eating away at my retirement I can't afford not to work.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<As for the oldest in the Uk, you are probably pipped at the post by the guys at ATC Lasham>>

Yes, Freddie must be heading towards 80 I'd have thought?

(Edit.... just spoke to AC. Freddie is 77+)

[vintage ATCO]

Lasham. I believe that at least one is into his seventies, still with a valid rating for a '424
Malcy isn't that old, is he?? :E :E :E

I pulled the ejection handle at 57 (still do air displays but not as ATC) but well done to those that keep going. :D

[Dan Dare]

Well done Leo for loving the job so much that you just can't give it up (I don't believe the pay motivates you). You'll have to keep going for quite some time to get to the record books though.

You may have a point about old ATOCs/bold ATCOs.
Freddy Frost undeniably has a few years on you, but although he is still doing the ocasional SRA its not quite like a busy LARS. Old, but perhaps less bold. I feel sure I remember there being an octogenarean controller up north, but can't for the life of remember where now.

I'll bet there are also busy GA aerodromes dotted around the country with old and bold ATCOs still in place. I think Frank Winch was well in his 70s when he finaly lost his medical at the then "4th busiest aerodrome in the country".

48 years in air traffic - perhaps you should write a book:} the old Lasham boys are doing another LHR nostalgia night tonight and there are just so many stories that need to be preserved.

Do keep going though - it sets the bar for us youngsters to aim for:D

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

How old was "Ash" at Sywell when he packed in?

[India 99]

Is that really you . . . as in . . . Leo M of " Titanic " fame ?

Keep taking the pills and for goodness sake enjoy it while you've got it . . whatever IT is .

Cheers
99:cool:

[India 99]

Oh . . . and anyone know if Ronnie B is still around and practising the art ?

(Lasham maybe)

ex colleague from LL

99:cool:

[Lon More]

ATC is a young man's game ( and girl's); I always felt that operational controllers should be looking to give up in their early 50s

I wonder how many of us oldies still believe we're giving 110% when the reality is somewhat different?
Did nobody else here cringe when, in the dim and distant, you were rostered with one of the then oldies?

Eurocontrol boots Controllers out at 55, though there is a possibility to soldier on until 57. I lost my licence on medical grounds, sleep apnea, although I would have been allowed to carry on just doing my Supervisoral duties. I didn't think anything was wrong as I didn't even note i'd dozed off for a few seconds but now believe it was an unfair strain on those round me.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Oh . . . and anyone know if Ronnie B is still around and practising the art ?>>

So far as I know, RR is still in the land of the living but I don't think he's practising his forte, which was radar!!

Bren

[leopilot]

Brian, I'm not trying to prove anything. I still enjoy doing the job for a few days a month in between sailing, flying, writing books, spending time with the family and grandchildren (heaven sent excuse to start up a model railway), trips abroad (America later this month) and numerous other activities - I don't really think I need to get a life, I'm more than content with the one I have.
As regards blocking youngsters, one of the reasons I am still working is the difficulty experienced by small units in attracting competent radar controllers of any age for the sort of salary on offer. In any case, as many will attest, I have done more than my fair share of encouraging and positively assisting young people to make a career in ATC and I am sure none of them would begrudge my present situation.

[leopilot]

India99, Yes, that's me. Look on google for over 20 other titles.

[2 sheds]

So, come on Leo get a life!

Anyone who knows him will also know that he has a very full life - and more talents than most of us here! Leo, take no notice of the rude buggas!

2 s

[Danscowpie]

There is someone who holds the record for still holding all the currencies at a much older age than Leo (although he's now retired but still passing on his wisdom methinks).
If it's the chap I am thinking of, he's not a million miles away from Leo's current haunts either.;);)

[Spitoon]

There is someone who holds the record for still holding all the currencies at a much older age than Leo (although he's now retired but still passing on his wisdom methinks).
Wasn't there a picture of him on this board a week or two ago - which disappeared without explanation?

[India 99]

Leopilot > Yes that's me

Check your PM's when you get a mo old bean.

99:cool:

[Brian 48nav]

I'm worn out reading all the things you do! I'm sorry that I appeared to be having a 'go',but apart from the excuse that I was still pi**ed-off about Sunday's result (long suffering Arsenal fan!),it did seem to me on first reading as if ATC was the only thing in your life.
I was obviously mistaken,so once again sorry.

I still,though,maintain the belief that enough is enough. As I was approaching my mid-fifties it did concern me whether I would be able to cut the mustard at LL until age 60. Early retirement was not an option for me as I did not join until I was 27 (having been a RAF navigator first),could not afford to buy the extra years for a full pension when my 3 children were growing up, and as I too lived in Somerset, moving into a 9-5 job was out of the question. Anyway like my friend Heathrow Director I was only interested in talking to the aeroplanes.

I suppose it's all about horses for courses; many of my pilot mates were happy to stop flying completely at Cathay and BA's old retirement age of 55,while others could not give up and some now own shares in light aircraft so that even in their late 60s they can still 'pole' a bit.

Best wishes, Leo - I shall PM tomorrow as I'm keen to swap notes.

Brian Wildey

[Brian 48nav]

We must be acquainted!

BW

[leopilot]

Don't worry Brian. Things could be worse. I'm a Newcastle fan!

[055166k]

Strange sort of post.....what's the deal?.....are you after a medal or something? You can have my 25 year service rosebowl if you like; I got it in 1995. I'm 61 and current BHD/LND/BRS/STU/BCN at London ACC. As for old against young.....well the pilots I've spoken to seem to appreciate the calm controlled service delivery style rather than the hysterical youthful machine-gun R/T. I do this job because I enjoy it, and when I no longer enjoy it I'll give up.

[throw a dyce]

Leo,
My other half has a guy working in the Council who is out in all weathers in remote farms working for Environmental Health.He is over 70,fit as a fiddle,plays golf and drinks whisky.
If your happy with the part-time job then great.:ok:

[Brian 48nav]

Blimey Stu,I thought you were retiring last year. I had a PM from someone asking for any stories about your Benbecula time for his speech. Could only remember the Vulcan 'night' one.

BW

[chevvron]

When I retired in late '08, I was fully intending to stay on providing LARS, but regretfully it was not to be (unfavourable Ts & Cs) so I became a FISO at a local airfield instead. Even now, pilots come in and say 'weren't you at Farnborough?' or 'I thought I had the wrong frequency selected when I heard your voice'. In some ways it's more challenging than controlling as you often have to handle the RTF plus file flight plans and take landing fees all at the same time, but having said that, I'd still rather be doing radar.

[leopilot]

Well, no actually. My only reason for the original post was pure curiosity. However, as you bring up the subject, perhaps an OBE for services to aviation would look nice on the mantlepiece. Are you listening Ma'am?

[055166k]

OBE is unlikely unless you've done a considerable and verifiable "extra".....however....an MBE is a distinct possibility. It's actually very easy, all you have to do is fill out the application form; anybody can get one. Google "MBE application form" or go to the Directgov website. Seriously...it is a simple process. Kind regards and Good Luck.

[eastern wiseguy]

The only MBE in ATC I remember was Vic Leonard......about 1980.....or am I making it up?

I seem to remember a plaque in the old Atlantic House celebrating the fact.

As to age...there is an ex Aldergrove controller working at EGAE who must be well into his seventies.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

John Davis received his MBE whilst at Heathrow for his part in handling the G-ARWE accident. Well deserved too - top bloke.

[middles]

Pat Harper, the very nice lady who used to organise all the newly arriving ATCAs at Preston Centre in the early seventies, I'm sure was an MBE.At least that was what it said on her office door.

[Cows getting bigger]

EWG, yes I think there is a 'pensioner' at EGAE and if my memory serves me correctly, he's an ex-Ballykelly Shackelton man (the last sqn left in 1971). He works wonders with procedural control though. :)

[On the beach]

....works wonders with procedural control....


Ah, the "black arts club", only open to the over 60's.

Real men don't need radar.

On the beach :E

[Danscowpie]

055166 - aka the "bitter and twisted ex NATS with nothing to offer" club (which thankfully has a low membership).

At least Leo is continuing to give others the benefit of his experience, and, as far as I understand it, and doing it very well.

Spitoon.

Wasn't there a picture of him on this board a week or two ago - which disappeared without explanation?

My spies tell me that the poster got into a spot of bother at HQ over that, hence the rapid exit stage left.:uhoh:

[trafficnotsighted]

I know of a 73 year old ATCO still controlling Tower and Approach Procedural in the UK.

[classicwings]

How old was "Ash" at Sywell when he packed in?

HD, "Ash" was an ATCO at Sywell from 1964 until his retirement in 1975 at the age of 75.

I enquired about this when I was there recently and somebody who has been associated with Sywell for a long time dug out an old article about him from an old copy of their 'Aerodrome' magazine.

PM me your email address if you would like me to send you a copy of this most interesting article.

Regards.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

OK... very interesting. My email is heathrowdirector at aol.com

Cheers Bren

[Standard Noise]

trafficnotsighted - that wouldn't be at Coventry would it? An ex-colleague of mine joined the team at Cov after retiring from NATS back in 95. Last I heard he was still working, and if he's reads this, good on you Mr F!

[Jay Doubleyou]

The real secret of your success was to get on No3 course, La Crème de la Crème! You must be the last of us still working. Unbelievably it's the 50th Anniversary in 2013, hope you'll be there, wherever there is!

[eastern wiseguy]

Black Arts Club

only open to the over 60's


Nope...still a lot of us "youngsters" who used it on a regular basis:ok:

[trafficnotsighted]

Standard - No he is at Plymouth.

[ATSMAN]

Hi Guys
Now aged 82, I started my aviation career in 1951 as a Meteor F8 pilot.
Did my civil ATC course in 1960. Worked in the UK with NATS for 17 years, then joined IAL and was operational worldwide for 15 years.
After a spell in IAL HQ Southall, got into ATC training. I got hooked! Have just completed an APR and and an ADI course. Much travelled wife and I, still have a busy social life...away from ATC. Keep doing what you can as long as you can and still enjoy "retirement"

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Wonder if we ever met? I was at Southall in 1967 then to Malta and Tripoli. Came home and after a year at Oxford I was incarcerated at Heathrow for 20 years and then the last ten at West Drayton. I retired at 58 in 2002. I loved ATC but could never wait to get home to my beloved wife. I had 12 work-free years with her until she died so don't spend the rest of your days working because you never know what's round the corner.

Best wishes

Brendan McCartney

[ATSMAN]

Hi Brendon, I don't think so. Lots of guys did IAL first, then CAA.

[rennaps]

Basically retired but still working otherwise I'd go nuts.
I don't like golf, fishing or spending time with a good book.
I Like Working!

[Minesthechevy]

Atsman, please chk your PMs

[Tarq57]

Basically retired but still working otherwise I'd go nuts.
I don't like golf, fishing or spending time with a good book.
I Like Working!
Nuts? Surely it's a bit late for that?;)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<I don't like golf, fishing or spending time with a good book.>>

Much better to spend time with a good wife.

[obwan]

I love golf, fishin' and reading and all of them bet the cr** out of work.:D